Iraf has been developed by NOAO until 2006, when the user support was
transferred to a volunteer effort, iraf.net. That was about version
2.12. In 2007, NOAO recollected the patches and user contributions,
and together with other improvements, released version 2.14.
Iraf is vast and ancient. It's partly written in C and partly written
in SPP, a custom made language. SPP needs a custom compiler that it's
included in the iraf core. SPP is converted into fortran (using f2c)
and compiled with the C compiler.
Iraf works in different architectures, but lacks x86_64 support. A
project exists to port iraf to x86_64, and it's basically the work
of one person, Chisato Yamauchi. This work it's outside NOAO or
iraf.net. I help him doing the testing of his developments in my
Fedora system, as he develops in CentOS.
Iraf includes a copy of the libc of the time of its early developments
(mid-80s), replicating the functionality of basic system calls. It
also includes a modified copy of ncar graphics library 1.0 (current
version is 5.0). ncar wasn't free at that time (I don't know if it's
free know, it seems to be composed of several packages, some free and
Iraf graphics facility, x11iraf, contains non-free code also. I tried
to package it in the past, but the package couldn't be included due
to legal restrictions again. That's where the thread in iraf.net
comes from. It was me complaining about the license text in the
iraf.net faq no representing the real status of iraf and x11iraf,
misleading into believing that both were free software when they
weren't. You can see also the answer to the complains about closed
code in iraf, basically "please fix it yourself and send me the
patches". As iraf is very far from trivial to compile, I suppose that
the number of patches received across the years is nearly zero.
Neither iraf.net or noao provide tools to work in iraf development,
such as a version control system. So, if we want to develop something
based in iraf, we at least need to establish a source tree somewhere.
Don't call it a fork if you want, but it's the only way to work.
I have been following this project with interest for a short time. I am
Systems Manager for the X-Ray and Observational Astronomy Group at the
University of Leicester. We run Scientific Linux 4.6 on our desktop
systems, mainly because I have 55+ systems to look after and I don't want
to be upgrading them any more than every 12-18 months. Scientific Linux
has proven to be very stable and trustworthy - it is of course a rebuild
of the RHEL source.
A Fedora Astronomy distro 'proper' would be great, in addition to the Live
CD. Are there any plans for this? I would have to give it serious
consideration if a large number of packages that we use here are included,
such as the HEASOFT stuff, PyRAF/IRAF, and the Starlink Software
Collection. The ESO Scisoft collection would be a brilliant inclusion.
We have users with Mac and Windows laptops who I am sure would welcome the
I know that a few of our UK counterparts are wholly using Fedora so I will
bring the project to their attention in case they have not discovered it
Unfortunately I cannot make any meetings on Saturday due to sports
commitments but I will of course keep an eye on the mailing list.
Mark Mahabir (XROA System Manager)
Dept of Physics & Astronomy, Phone +44 116 252 5652
University of Leicester, Fax +44 116 252 3311
Leicester, LE1 7RH, U.K.
The log is attached.
Marek Mahut https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Astronomy/
Fedora Project http://www.jamendo.com/
17:25 marek hey Telimektar
17:26 Telimektar hi marek
17:27 Telimektar you'r a little early :)
17:28 marek ;) you too
17:29 Telimektar i hope we won't be alone :'(
17:31 marek me too
17:48 GeroldKa_aw < [n=GeroldKa(a)p5B2CBCEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] quits ["Verlassend"]
17:49 GeroldKa > [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] joins #fedora-meeting
17:55 danishka_ > [n=danishka(a)18.104.22.168] joins #fedora-meeting
17:57 hanthana < [n=danishka(a)22.214.171.124] quits [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
17:59 marek astronomy SIG around?
18:00 Telimektar plop :)
18:02 marek anyone else around?
18:02 marek got a message from Sergio that he can't attend
18:04 Telimektar ok
18:04 Telimektar shall we begin ?
18:04 Telimektar (a 2-person meeting :))
18:05 marek ok
18:06 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Astronomy SIG | Introduction.
18:06 marek so, who's around?
18:06 * marek Marek Mahut
18:06 *Telimektar Micha"el Ughetto
18:07 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Astronomy SIG | Review of tasks from last meeting.
18:08 marek so, what's our overall progress?
18:08 Telimektar what were they ?
18:08 marek nothing I guess, because we were only two at the meeting :)
18:08 marek Serio sent me this mail:
18:08 marek <paste>
18:08 marek * I have packaged pyfits, a python interface to fits. This package is
18:08 marek required by pyraf
18:08 marek * I have packaged pyraf also, but, as iraf isn't in fedora, it can be
18:08 marek included for the moment
18:08 marek * I'm giving eso-midas a second try. I have a package that seems to
18:08 marek work but needs some testing.
18:08 marek </paste>
18:08 marek this is the progress report from him
18:08 marek from my side
18:09 marek I was heavily working on gnuradio even with upstream
18:09 marek and it should be quite stable
18:09 marek we need to start working on last packages and think about preparing the kickstart file
18:10 Telimektar I'm still fighting with xvarstar, exams will start again soon, so it won't be fast
18:10 marek this will come in next two month +/-
18:10 Telimektar yes
18:10 Telimektar abous thes kickstart file
18:10 marek Telimektar: np, did you resolve the problem that it's not building under f8?
18:10 Telimektar Telimektar: still on it
18:10 marek :)
18:10 marek ok
18:10 Telimektar marek*: it was not that easy
18:11 Telimektar for the ks, we maybe should ask for a Group package
18:11 danishka_ | changes nick to hanthana
18:11 marek Telimektar: I know :)
18:11 marek Telimektar: not sure if it will be approved
18:11 marek last time they told us no-no.
18:11 marek but it's a good try
18:11 marek Telimektar: we should create a wiki page with a TODO list
18:12 Telimektar yes, my plan's was a roadmap page with link to all subprojects
18:12 marek ok, let's move for the google question.
18:12 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Astronomy SIG | What if the astronomy SIG has a summer intern ?
18:12 marek do we know something about this?
18:13 marek I don't even know if the application for this are still open
18:13 Telimektar nothing it has juste been a question on the ml
18:13 marek "We'll begin accepting applications from open source mentoring organizations on Monday, March 3, 2008; we'll stop accepting organization applications on Wednesday, March 12th."
18:13 Telimektar even if the student is not provided by gsoc, we could perhaps offer this type of function
18:13 marek ok, so this will go for the next year tasks :)
18:14 marek Telimektar: what do you mean by this typo of function?
18:14 Telimektar we could define some big tasks that could be assigned to a temporary dev, a student for example
18:15 Telimektar but it will come later in the meeting i guess
18:15 marek Telimektar: but who will pay him?
18:15 Telimektar marek: in the mail there was no question of money
18:16 marek well, the Google Summer of Code is that the student work the summer and he gets 2000$ from google
18:16 marek Telimektar: if not it's a standard volenteer that do it in the free time
18:16 Telimektar ok
18:16 marek the gsoc guys get paid for the summer and work heavily on the projects
18:17 Telimektar we should ask Jeff about his proposition
18:17 marek Telimektar: indeed
18:17 marek but the applications are closed for this summer already, let's try our luck next time
18:17 Telimektar Fedora 11 so :p
18:17 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Astronomy SIG | Forking IRAF and clean it of the closed source?
18:17 marek ;)
18:17 marek yup
18:17 Telimektar 12*
18:17 marek this is a topic from Sergio
18:18 marek <paste>
18:18 marek And finally, can fedora-astronomy be involved in branching iraf? is it
18:18 marek feasible? Iraf it's used by great part of the astronomical community
18:18 marek and would be a I killer application. Could you rise the question in
18:18 marek the meeting?
18:18 marek </paste>
18:18 marek this is a good proposition but will involve a lot of work
18:18 Telimektar a new item for the todo list
18:18 Telimektar it also involves getting in contact with the iraf community
18:19 marek yes
18:19 marek we should discuss it on the mailing list first
18:19 Telimektar yes
18:19 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Astronomy SIG | Free discussion, mind storming
18:19 marek ok, all other business
18:19 Telimektar you've talked about skylive.it
18:20 marek yes, this is an interesting project
18:20 Telimektar and python module that it needs
18:20 marek you can take photos from scopes over the globe
18:20 marek Telimektar: it needs about 10 python modules that are not in fedora yet
18:20 marek I don't have the list yet, but it should be somewhere on their web
18:20 Telimektar ok, i didn't found soure on their website
18:20 Telimektar source*
18:20 marek or even find it from code
18:22 marek http://download.astronomix.org/skylive/SkyLiveNG-0.1b.tgz
18:22 marek here is it
18:22 Telimektar ok thanks, i'll take aloot on it and make a summary of needs on the ml
18:22 Telimektar a look *
18:22 marek Telimektar: thank you
18:23 marek next item, is getting the packages in EPEL as well
18:23 Telimektar why not
18:24 marek I would like to distribute the Fedora Astronomy spin on a usb stick
18:24 marek people would be able to order it for small price
18:24 marek like 3 euros with the post
18:25 Telimektar mhm, why not
18:25 marek Telimektar: did you saw the persistance feature?
18:25 Telimektar i'm sure som magazines can be interested in this too
18:25 Telimektar marek: i've read a little about it
18:25 marek Telimektar: it's very nice
18:25 marek that way, you can keep your data from observation on the key itself
18:26 Telimektar how do you want to sell the usb stick?
18:28 marek I thought of a web form, something like free media program
18:28 Telimektar ok
18:29 marek I'll try to save some money and get about 300 free for local observatory etc...
18:29 marek and if we are really good, maybe Red Hat will be willing to pay for it too :)
18:29 spoleeba > [n=one@fedora/Jef] joins #fedora-meeting
18:29 marek heyah spoleeba :)
18:29 Telimektar from your own pocket ?
18:30 marek Telimektar: yes.
18:30 spoleeba too many meetings....too little time
18:30 rsc < [n=robert@fedora/rsc] quits [Remote closed the connection]
18:30 marek spoleeba: ;) welcome
18:30 Telimektar 300 free usb sticks it's a lot for a begin
18:30 Telimektar hi spoleeba
18:31 marek Telimektar: well, these are only for local observatory I'm planning
18:31 marek and local institutions
18:31 Telimektar I think i can get some money for such a distributing money in my university
18:31 Telimektar -money
18:32 marek Telimektar: you think your university would be interested in this?
18:32 Telimektar I think i can get some money for such a distributing, from my university
18:32 Telimektar corrected:p
18:32 marek cool
18:33 marek well, we will see later
18:33 Telimektar marek: yeah , i was the president of a physics student association and i know they can be interested by such things
18:33 Telimektar yes
18:33 marek first let's do a spin that kicks ass :)
18:33 Telimektar marek: +1
18:33 marek Telimektar: cool :)
18:33 rsc > [n=robert(a)linuxnetz.de] joins #fedora-meeting
18:33 marek I'll be taking some days off from my work on work on this spin
18:33 marek because my work consumes all my time
18:34 Telimektar we also must finalize the astronomy-menus
18:34 spoleeba marek, so you are really close to putting a spin together?
18:34 marek Telimektar: yup, I had a showstopper on this
18:34 marek spoleeba: kind of, in next two months we can start doing the initial kickstart file
18:35 marek Telimektar: but I've found a way how to create this menu
18:35 spoleeba marek, make sure you look at the guidance from the new Spins SIG
18:35 marek spoleeba: yes, I know it
18:35 Telimektar marek: can't we base it one the games-menus rpm ?
18:35 marek Telimektar: no, the games menus are using standard GNOME categories
18:36 Telimektar ok
18:36 marek games have sub-cats in gnome, that's no the case of other menus
18:36 marek spoleeba: we will have first only a beta kickstart file
18:36 marek spoleeba: I want to release it all little bit after Fedora 10
18:37 marek do we have date for Fedora 10 yet?
18:37 Telimektar i don't think so
18:38 marek spoleeba: do we have the final version of the spins process?
18:38 Telimektar do you have a link to this ? i do not know about it
18:39 marek I saw a proposition on wiki somewhere, but was told by the Board it's still in progress
18:39 marek https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal
18:39 Telimektar thx
18:40 spoleeba marek, of the entire process.. i dont think so
18:41 marek spoleeba: good to have you on the project, you can review it before we propose it to the board itself
18:41 spoleeba marek, but i think the guidance as to what is/is not allowed is mostly there
18:44 marek spoleeba: do you the link to the guidance?
18:45 spoleeba no... let me find it
18:46 spoleeba there's a wiki re-org going on as well...which impact things
18:47 spoleeba http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Spins/CommunitySpinGuidelines
18:48 marek /!\ Fixing packages or applications on the Spin is not allowed. A fix goes upstream.
18:49 marek this mean fix goes to Fedora (upstream here?)
18:49 marek ?
18:52 spoleeba marek, i think it means... not making changes in the Spins kickstart file
18:53 spoleeba that should go in a package...and submitted upstream
18:53 marek spoleeba: ok, understood
18:53 marek anything else we want to discuss?
18:53 spoleeba the idea being...don't screw with things like default config settings via kickstart script action..even though you can
18:54 Telimektar it's ok for me
18:54 Telimektar what are the tasks assignment for now on ?
18:54 marek spoleeba: we were thinking about a different wallpaper
18:55 spoleeba kickstarts are very flexible...and to keep all or spins consistent..we have to refrain from doing some things that kickstart can easily do
18:55 marek Telimektar: I think, from now on, we should create a TODO list wiki page, with the name of the person working on it and final date
18:56 marek spoleeba: yup, I see
18:56 spoleeba marek, get it packaged as a package so anyone else can use it
18:56 spoleeba marek, i think theming differences are allowed..i think games does it already
18:56 marek spoleeba: it would be part of the wallpaper package, but we will have to mess with the default config to set it
18:56 marek spoleeba: ok
18:58 marek spoleeba, Telimektar any other business you would like to raise?
18:58 giallu > [n=giallu(a)81-174-9-190.dynamic.ngi.it] joins #fedora-meeting
18:58 spoleeba marek, i dont think so
18:59 Telimektar ok for me
18:59 marek ok closing this meeting
18:59 marek that you both for coming
18:59 marek changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
18:59 Telimektar thanks all, see you on the list !
19:00 marek see you!
I think the time is come for a new meeting.
We must discuss about the future activties of the SIG, goal for F10,
answer to the question of Jeff ( what is the SIG has a summer intern),
Do you have any preferences for the time of the meeting ?
Please feel free to add your topic here :
Hope to read as much as possible of you soon !
Michael Ughetto (Telimektar)
<telimektar1er(a)gmail.com> || <telimektar(a)esraonline.com>
0x8ECBA2A4 on pgp.mit.edu
Hi everybody !
Here is a little todo list born from the meeting :
This what i mainly get oh the meeting.
Please feel free to add tasks, for this is only a draft.
We should also discuss about the assignment of tasks.
Who's intersted in what ? Who can handle this task or an another ? etc ...
Those question are particulary true for the IRAF fork, this our bigger
project and he asks a particular involvment. As the person which will
take it in charge must be familiar with the software and able to get
in contact (and keep it) with the current IRAF community, developpers.
This person should also be able to divide and distribute task the more
This is of course my ideal vision of the project.
Please take a look to the forementionned page, modify it, discuss it,
ask, suggest, ....
Thanks for your participation in the SIG.
Have a nice day/night/afternoon/morning (refer to your local time :p) !
Michael Ughetto (Telimektar)
<telimektar1er(a)gmail.com> || <telimektar(a)esraonline.com>
0x8ECBA2A4 on pgp.mit.edu
Good Morning Campers!
I haven't participated directly in the Astronomy SIG even though I'm
listed in its membership.
But I have been thinking about long term opportunities for the SIG to
be break out star of the Fedora Project.
So let me catch you all up to speed on a couple of long term ideas
that I've been leveraging my Board title to have conversations about.
1) open source amateur telescope network
Given the right telescope and ccd camera hardware arrangements, we
could provide a completely self-contained Fedora based software setup
for remote instrument control, with turn-key instructions on how to
get an instrument up and in the network. To that end, I have a local
high school teacher who has a small grant to put a remotely controlled
scope together for his classes to use. It looks like we'll be using a
apogee usb camera and an 8 inch meade telescope. Hardware I'm sure we
won't have a problem providing support for in Fedora. A filter wheel
hasn't been selected yet.
Given that hardware what is the best control and image capture
software we have in Fedora right now that could be used for instrument
control, tracking and image collection? I'm thinking Kstars makes for
the best interface for an educational target, but what do i know. Can
we do guidestar tracking out of the box with this camera and scope, or
would we need a secondary imager? I'm not sure kstars actually does
image based guidestar tracking.
I haven't even thought about focus control yet. I would imagine we'll
need to homebrew something. Whatever we end up doing, I want it to be
an easy to follow blueprint so I can get another school to do it next
year so we can link multiple instruments together for student use.
And if all possible I want to be able to produce a Fedora branded live
image with the necessary software to run the instrument.
2) Radio Lunar/Solar Bounce HF Groundstations
What would it take to run a network of volunteer groundstations to
participate in a coordinated lunar/solar bounce HF experiment?
I've run across an experimental opportunity for long baseline
interferometry that could make use of a dispersed network of
groundstations, and I'd like to see if we can build that network
through the Fedora project. Obviously it's going to require hardware
that most people don't have...but licensed HAM operators might have.
I'm talking with potential researchers now to organize the science
proposal. But we also need to stat having a conversation inside
Fedora about whether there is enough interest in participating in a
network of volunteer stations. I've talked to a couple of people in
the HAM SIG, but if the Astronomy SIG wants to help make it happen
that would be keen as well.
Now that gnuradio is in in the repo, what else would be needed in
Fedora to do something coordinated? I'm sure we have the necessary
software to make use of gps time syncing when groundstations have
access to a local gps time source. One of the goals here is a
turn-key live image that can be used as the automated groundstation
control. I'm not sure if it will end-up being brandable Fedora without
special permission from the Board. it might have to ship some
configuration information for data collection specifics that won't be
a part of the Fedora repository.
If the Astronomy SIG had a summer student intern, what would you have
them work on?
Keep in mind that such an intern would be free to walk away from the
project at the end of the summer, so you want to define some sort of
project that would profit from dedicated manpower for 2 or 3 months
and would continue to be useful after that manpower was no longer
available. Package maintainership work would be an example of a bad
thing to use an intern for.