cloud December 2013

cloud@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

23 participants
26 discussions

Short links to Fedora Cloud Images
by Matthew Miller 17 Dec '14

17 Dec '14

These links all work now: http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-19.x86_64.qcow2 http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-19.i386.qcow2 http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-latest.i386.qcow2 http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-latest.x86_64.qcow2 (They will redirect to a mirror link provided by mirrormanager.) -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>

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Vagrant in Fedora
by Alex Drahon 14 Jan '14

14 Jan '14

Hi all, I wanted to give an update on the status of Vagrant in Fedora 20, I just realised it's my first post to the list so I'll take this opportunity to introduce myself. I'm Alex, I work at Red Hat as a Solution Architect (ie. nothing engineering related), I wrote the vagrant-kvm plugin on my spare time to make it work on my Fedora laptop, though there's now a (much more qualified) second maintainer who is also providing support for Ubuntu through a PPA. Matthew asked me if I wanted to work on packaging Vagrant and the KVM plugin for Fedora 20, and I foolishly accepted ;) It's quite exhilarating having the opportunity to contribute to Fedora, and at the same time I feel totally lost. I don't mean this as a criticism, it's just this "first week at school" feeling, it will take me some time to get an idea of how things work. That said, here's the Vagrant situation: 1. I have a vagrant RPM that installs and works as expected, there's some minimal patching involved which has to do with the fact that Vagrant expect to be running in it's own Ruby 1.9.3 environment in /opt 2. There was also some patching involved to make the plugin system work, although I haven't tested plugins extensively (some stuff breaks like rubygems loading path) and providing common plugins as RPMs looks like the better way in Fedora. 3. I had to build my own rubygems-childprocess (current Fedora package is very old) and rubygems-log4r (not provided in Fedora) RPMs, but I don't know how I should submit them (package review ticket?). There's a existing ticket for log4r https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=905240 , I added it as a dependency to the Vagrant ticket. 4. I've packaged vagrant-kvm as a RPM and it installs, but I'm running into serious issues with Policykit. I don't think I'll be able to solve that without help, I'm not even sure what's the right way to do it. So, as a summary: - yum install vagrant should work, at which point you need to install VirtualBox and it will run as expected - vagrant-kvm installs but I don't know how to add the right polkit rules (I need help) Looks pretty good, right? Alex

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PRD Hackfest on 8 January 2014
by Joe Brockmeier 19 Dec '13

19 Dec '13

Hi all, Per the discussion during today's IRC meeting, we have a lot of work left to do on the PRD and not tons of time to finish it in. Rather than asking folks to spend holiday time slogging through it, it'd probably be beneficial to try to organize a "hackfest" to do this together and just get it done. Due date for the PRD is ~ 13 January 2014, so let's meet before that. I'm proposing 8 January 2014 - that's a Wednesday. My suggestion is to start at 14:00 UTC and run through our meeting time, ending at 18:00 UTC. That should be enough time to wrap things up, or at least put us in a position where it only needs a bit of polish before submitting the PRD. Will also ping the server group to see if they want to run a concurrent hackfest - that way, if we have any questions or need to collaborate between groups, we'll all be available around the same time. Thoughts, comments, flames? Best, jzb -- Joe Brockmeier | Principal Cloud & Storage Analyst jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/ Twitter: @jzb | http://dissociatedpress.net/

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unavailable F20 amis
by milanisko k 19 Dec '13

19 Dec '13

Hey guys, following AMIs can't be instantiated --- AWS error message says that these either have been deleted or I've got no access (but US East 1 amis works for me): Singapore ami-92cd99c0 ami-bccd99ee Sydney ami-eb4cd3d1 ami-374bd40d Tokyo ami-8fd0b38e ami-7dd7b47c Ireland ami-c00fe6b7 ami-3401e843 Sao Paulo ami-056ecf18 ami-6f6ecf72 Northern California ami-54e3d311 ami-68e3d32d Oregon ami-ea7612da ami-56771366 Seems they're not "public enough"... Btw I'm pressing the "Launch It!" button on the fedora cloud page<http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora#clouds> -- milan

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No meeting for the next two weeks
by Sam Kottler 18 Dec '13

18 Dec '13

I mentioned it at the end of the meeting today, but there won't be a meeting next week because it's Christmas or the following week because it's New Years. Get some rest and see you in 2014! -Sam

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Minutes from today's (12/18/2013) cloud WG meeting
by Sam Kottler 18 Dec '13

18 Dec '13

Thanks everyone who was able to make it to the meeting today! For those who weren't able to make it, here are few important links: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeting… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeting… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeting… Log (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeting… Here's a summary of the meeting (link to the HTML and text versions above): ========================================== #fedora-meeting-1: cloud WG weekly meeting ========================================== Meeting started by samkottler at 17:01:13 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-18/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary --------------- * rollcall (samkottler, 17:02:08) * next steps for the PRD (samkottler, 17:05:26) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD for those who don't have the link (samkottler, 17:06:19) * AGREED: Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year (tentatively, Wednesday Jan, 8) (number80, 17:27:42) * ACTION: jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details (jzb, 17:28:08) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Product_Requirements_Document (samkottler, 17:31:43) * open floor (samkottler, 17:40:05) Meeting ended at 17:49:49 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jzb * jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * samkottler (55) * jzb (36) * number80 (30) * sgallagh (11) * mattdm (5) * zodbot (5) * geppetto (1) * rbergeron (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 17:01:13 <samkottler> #startmeeting cloud WG weekly meeting 17:01:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 18 17:01:13 2013 UTC. The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:29 <number80> just in time :o) 17:01:56 <samkottler> #chair number80 geppetto rbergeron jzb 17:01:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto jzb number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:02:08 <samkottler> #topic rollcall 17:02:22 * samkottler waves 17:02:39 * jzb says howdy 17:02:42 * sgallagh lurks. Ping me directly if you want to discuss interaction with Server. 17:03:12 <samkottler> sgallagh: if you've got more stuff that you'd like us to solidify today we can talk about it during the open floor 17:03:31 * geppetto is here 17:03:45 <sgallagh> samkottler: Nothing in particular. I'm just idling in here so if questions come up, I can answer them. 17:03:57 <samkottler> sgallagh: okay perfect, thanks! 17:05:26 <samkottler> #topic next steps for the PRD 17:05:51 <samkottler> I think we should spend the majority of the meeting working on PRD structure 17:05:57 <number80> +1 17:06:19 <samkottler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud_PRD for those who don't have the link 17:07:38 <samkottler> so I think it makes sense to split out the bottom into two sections 17:07:43 <samkottler> which we talked a bit about last week 17:07:49 <samkottler> but it'd be good to finalize that 17:08:21 <samkottler> I was gonna move maintainability, support requirements, security, and release criteria to their own sections 17:08:23 <samkottler> #chair mattdm 17:08:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto jzb mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:08:25 <mattdm> hi all sorry -- I am stuck in a (still ongoing) IRL meeting 17:08:52 <samkottler> mattdm: NP, we're just talking about the PRD 17:08:54 <mattdm> and people are asking questions and talking to me and stuff so I can't just ignore that :) please ping me if needed 17:09:09 <jzb> samkottler: +1 to move 17:11:11 <number80> +1 for moving stuff 17:12:42 <number80> btw, are we bypassing the quorum since today we're currently 3 (+ one stuck at a IRL meeting) 17:12:46 <number80> ? 17:12:58 <samkottler> number80: yeah, I don't think we have anything that really needs voting luckily 17:13:04 <number80> ok 17:14:41 <samkottler> alright so I split things out into "general" and "technical" requirements 17:14:55 <samkottler> I'll clean up that section in not-real-time 17:16:41 <samkottler> number80: jzb: one other thing I wanted to touch base on was how specific stuff like image building should be in the document 17:17:01 <samkottler> I kinda think it should say 'we provide tools and processes for rebuilds' without actually providing more details 17:17:07 <number80> +1 17:17:21 <number80> implementation details are not to be in the PRD 17:17:30 <jzb> samkottler: yeah, I think we should point to a page on the wiki for that. 17:17:41 <jzb> samkottler: but basically, that's going to be a changeable thing 17:17:45 <samkottler> agreed 17:17:57 <samkottler> it's just a matter of whether or not that page will exist before we submit the PRD 17:18:17 <number80> +1 for the url (even if it says at the moment, that this is a work in progress) 17:19:49 <jzb> samkottler: a stub should be OK, I think 17:19:56 <jzb> samkottler: though I'd add that to release criteria 17:20:29 <samkottler> those are the major things I've got around the PRD 17:20:35 <samkottler> there's a lot more work to be done 17:21:18 <jzb> samkottler: what's the for-real deadline again? 17:21:52 <samkottler> jzb: I believe it's jan 15th? sgallagh ^^ 17:22:15 * sgallagh double-checks, but that sounds right 17:23:15 <sgallagh> samkottler: 2014-01-13 17:23:37 <samkottler> sgallagh: thanks 17:23:48 <number80> from december, 24 to january,2 i don't expect any work done on the PRD so we should finish it at the beginning of next week 17:23:50 <samkottler> jzb: I'm planning on working on it a bunch next week 17:24:06 <jzb> samkottler: ... over the holiday? 17:24:17 <samkottler> jzb: yeah, post-xmas I'll be working on stuff 17:24:51 <jzb> samkottler: Hmmm. I will see what I can chip in on, but I don't want to make any promises about working over the break 17:25:24 <samkottler> no pressure, of course 17:25:33 <jzb> samkottler: I suggest we maybe look at scheduling a PRD hackfest beginning of the year 17:25:34 <samkottler> I just haven't done enough on the PRD yet so I'm gonna work a day or so on it 17:25:38 <mattdm> +1 hackfest 17:25:41 <number80> i'll try advancing on personas and proof-reading stuff 17:25:45 <samkottler> +1 let's do it 17:25:53 <number80> +1 hackfest 17:25:58 <samkottler> jzb: wanna send an email to set the date? 17:26:21 <jzb> samkottler: yep. Tentatively, the Wednesday (Jan 8) sound good? 17:26:31 <samkottler> WFM 17:26:40 <jzb> (everybody? mattdm, number80?) ^^ 17:26:42 <number80> #agreed Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year (tentatively, Wednesdat Jan, 8) 17:26:44 <samkottler> timezones will surely be a joy 17:26:53 <number80> +1 for Jan, 8 btw 17:26:55 <mattdm> wfm 17:27:02 <jzb> indeed 17:27:35 <number80> #undo 17:27:35 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x40e8290> 17:27:42 <number80> #agreed Cloud PRD hackfest on the beginning of the year (tentatively, Wednesday Jan, 8) 17:28:08 <jzb> #action jzb send a email to cloud list to finalize Hackfest details 17:28:44 <jzb> sgallagh: how goes the server wg PRD? 17:29:23 <sgallagh> jzb: I think we finally finished defining our users yesterday. 17:29:46 <sgallagh> What remains is approving our target use-cases and the criteria for a server role being promoted to "featured" status. 17:29:57 <sgallagh> So we're probably going to cut the delivery date close. 17:31:27 <number80> sgallagh: a link ? 17:31:43 <samkottler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Product_Requirements_Document 17:31:50 <number80> thank you 17:31:57 <jzb> sgallagh: we're going to do a hackfest for ours on (probably) the 8th 17:31:58 <sgallagh> number80: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Server/Product_Requirements_Doc… 17:32:12 <jzb> sgallagh: might make sense to join forces or do something similar at the same time? 17:32:21 <sgallagh> jzb: Probably a good idea. 17:32:24 <jzb> so if we have cross-wg questions we could address them 17:32:43 <jzb> sgallagh: I'll shoot a note to the server list too 17:32:58 <sgallagh> number80: Not a lot there yet. It's just a first pass. 17:33:17 <number80> yeah, but it's worth to take a peek :) 17:33:21 * sgallagh nods 17:35:31 <number80> anything else ? 17:36:08 <samkottler> that's all I've got 17:36:20 <number80> ok 17:36:44 <number80> maybe we could move to the open floor ? 17:36:50 <samkottler> what's the name of that open-souce video/note conferencing tool that fedora infra runs? 17:36:58 <samkottler> it'd be cool to get that working for the hackfest 17:38:06 <number80> If there's one, it's not listed there: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/ 17:38:06 <jzb> samkottler: we have a video/note tool? 17:39:11 <samkottler> I forget what it's call, but we used it for the infrastructure hackathon 17:40:01 <samkottler> anyways... 17:40:05 <samkottler> #topic open floor 17:40:36 <number80> are there any WG members at the FOSDEM in Brussels ? 17:40:44 <jzb> number80: I'm going 17:40:47 * samkottler will be 17:41:01 <samkottler> mattdm: you going to fosdem? 17:41:02 <number80> maybe we should schedule an IRL meeting (i'm going too) 17:41:12 <jzb> oh, that reminds me 17:41:15 <jzb> so, the week before that 17:41:24 <jzb> there's Monkigras in London 17:41:37 <jzb> and the day before that, we're pulling together a "Cloud Summit" 17:41:44 <mattdm> samkottler yes I am 17:41:54 <number80> samkottler: nirik is suggesting that you're talking about http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Gobby 17:42:05 <number80> \o/ 17:42:08 <samkottler> number80: yep, that's it 17:42:38 <number80> ok, i was confused by the video part but +1 for using it 17:42:41 * samkottler is going to be in paris/london/germany from tomorrow until Jan 30 17:42:43 <samkottler> and then on to fosdem 17:43:42 <jzb> samkottler: you should grab a ticket for Monkigras and plan on being at the cloud summit 17:44:29 <number80> ok, since we might have half of the WG (Robyn might come too), i really insist on having a IRL meeting :) 17:44:32 <samkottler> oh it's in shoreditch, that's easy 17:45:02 <number80> maybe it's worth inviting other WG for an inter-WG session too 17:45:10 <jzb> samkottler: http://monkigras.com/buy/ 17:45:35 <samkottler> jzb: done 17:45:50 <jzb> samkottler: the beer is excellent 17:45:52 <samkottler> anyone got other stuff? 17:46:07 <jzb> samkottler: just a suggestion 17:46:20 <samkottler> number80: yeah that sounds good - there'll be lots of folks there so I imagine we'll have pretty good coverage from each WG 17:46:33 <jzb> samkottler: with F20 out, it'd be great to see some Howtos using cloud images. 17:46:53 <jzb> samkottler: I do have a project or two I'm going to try over the holiday that I hope to get a good writeup from. 17:47:13 <jzb> and I can probably get any features/howtos published on Linux.com if anyone wants to write one. 17:47:15 <jzb> (other than me) 17:47:22 <samkottler> jzb: what do you think about a blog post or two about docker w/ f20 17:47:32 <jzb> samkottler: that'd be excellent 17:47:49 <samkottler> cool, I'll try to hammer that out on my flight tomorrow 17:48:07 <jzb> woot 17:48:17 <jzb> that's all I've got, except to wish everyone a happy holiday 17:48:59 * samkottler hopes everyone gets some rest 17:49:14 <samkottler> oh also: no meeting next week 17:49:49 <samkottler> #endmeeting

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Reminder + agenda for tomorrow's (12/18/2013) meeting
by Sam Kottler 17 Dec '13

17 Dec '13

Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the cloud WG meeting Wednesday at 17:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1 on irc.freenode.net. To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/UTCHowto or run: date -d '2013-12-18 17:00 UTC' = Followups = * More work on the structure and content of the PRD If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can reply to this e-mail, file a new ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/cloud, or bring it up at the end of the meeting during the open floor. -Sam

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Fedora 20 RC1 AMIs
by Dennis Gilmore 14 Dec '13

14 Dec '13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Final RC1 images have been uploaded to EC2 and are available at ami-3b361952 : us-east-1 image for i386 ami-1337187a : us-east-1 image for x86_64 additionally if your looking to the AMI's they have been added to files in the release tree http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-RC1/Images/i386/Fedora-Images-… http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-RC1/Images/x86_64/Fedora-Image… when we get to final and the images are uploaded to all regions they will all be listed and the file will be gpg signed in the final tree -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSqYqJAAoJEH7ltONmPFDRvh0QAKYbGMy2o4BW1BArGmqshU2U YM609IteyjkaMNHJQbCoMUb1IEPXTEsIL+EFITN63NmigAjKXblB7aGyNEsNaPf9 92FCEx4+F9JBKkhd7AP4ZUtyXw9mLTNpKWdS6NY+/5YbH7/7SF3vYMCW0XBcGuZg 7+7pz2zjl/4919Sx7Y0jXnKmkc0mCulePkjjEy3yke7kYJtx+ph8ByqZUDyr4Qy0 6KNN83hIBBVmPCh+BBudiYkct747nh6g6rpXDSAz4K1Y2I9iV9Nd1BYZ+rxtl2Mv J157JfJA+olTgHF07ZKqcdqOyNaGHH+J8b+k01kUrbOHfQxFul8JZulec0XLuTza 8UBlmyZ9D5NocU+QRZK0d9Fq5y9Ln/IUPAEXemRd0NjPjzA4YS6xj83MMSCx0aJr 7WEHXJ6b2PQBbLbxwASTbA9BBYNCCjrvocAB2xGbLwaKIqRiPdBLlE91QZMPmSM8 Ujw3/S94Ijp2mmlA/WXac6ksD5x1iBmVtNBozpzP8hxWVA0KAe3U+RNsmglgcz4d tgA7KFy5jcKKbeIriPMerwo4jxfSqXEk3wIfl3iWwWWxyi6Jlnj1VvavJBrfJmsw tGh858ZNGB7p3aDqf7esvvw5whOMQsfJ1W61xHF1Yc9sXuRI04DPbnbTNIRYzM6A +6t3IW+zlkqLM68m7+5B =q5Ww -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PRD use cases
by Matthew Miller 13 Dec '13

13 Dec '13

Right now, the example use case we have is "cloud image on AWS". This suggests that we should have a parallel "cloud image on OpenStack" as another primary target, but then as I went to fill that in, I thought... maybe this is going about this wrong. I think this is a step or two too low level. How about instead, we make the use case be * Web Application Deployment in a Public Cloud Modern web applications are deployed as a collection of interconnected services, including parts like web servers, application servers, databases, and caching layers. Fault tolerance is handled at the overall orchestration level rather than by individual instances Fedora Cloud can be the base of each of these parts, providing recent libraries, server software, and language toolchains. Each system will be managed using the public cloud's own management tools plus a configuration management system like Puppet, Chef, or Ansible. * Web Application Deployment in Hybrid Cloud As above, but rather than a single cloud provider, the application seamlessly takes advantage of resources in both a private and public cloud. * Separate use case for Private Cloud? _______________ (Or combine into one of the above?) * Non-web applications? Data crunching? _______________ * Docker Container Host Docker is a technology for running applications inside a protected container. These containers run under the host kernel, but otherwise are self-contained. The Fedora Cloud image running in either a private or public cloud can provide the host level, including basic docker management tools plus tools for security and for access to storage. * Something with Vagrant? ___________ -- Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project Architect -- <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>

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Minutes from today's (12/11/2013) cloud WG meeting
by Sam Kottler 11 Dec '13

11 Dec '13

Thanks everyone who was able to make it to the meeting today! For those who weren't able to make it, here are few important links: Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-11/fedora-meeting… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-11/fedora-meeting… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-11/fedora-meeting… Log (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-11/fedora-meeting… Here's a summary of the meeting (link to the HTML and text versions above): ========================================== #fedora-meeting-1: cloud WG weekly meeting ========================================== Meeting started by samkottler at 17:01:14 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2013-12-11/fedora-meeting… . Meeting summary --------------- * rollcall (samkottler, 17:02:05) * PRD (samkottler, 17:06:33) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Personas (samkottler, 17:09:01) * ACTION: samkottler to start thread to desktop WG about desktop virtualization (samkottler, 17:24:35) * open floor (samkottler, 17:41:33) Meeting ended at 17:43:02 UTC. Action Items ------------ * samkottler to start thread to desktop WG about desktop virtualization Action Items, by person ----------------------- * samkottler * samkottler to start thread to desktop WG about desktop virtualization * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * samkottler (41) * mattdm (40) * jzb (29) * frankieonuonga (19) * sgallagh (5) * rbergeron (5) * zodbot (4) * geppetto (2) * number80 (0) 17:01:14 <samkottler> #startmeeting cloud WG weekly meeting 17:01:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 11 17:01:14 2013 UTC. The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:43 <samkottler> #chair mattdm rbergeron number80 jzb 17:01:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: jzb mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:02:05 <samkottler> #topic rollcall 17:02:20 * samkottler is here :-) 17:02:32 * jzb is here 17:02:49 * geppetto is here 17:03:13 <samkottler> #chair geppetto 17:03:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: geppetto jzb mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler 17:04:17 <samkottler> looks like we don't have quorum this week? 17:04:44 <mattdm> Okay, so maybe just talk about PRD and not vote on anything? 17:04:58 <jzb> samkottler: how many do we need for quorum? 17:05:08 <samkottler> jzb: 5 17:05:08 <jzb> I could vote twice... 17:05:43 * rbergeron is here and is also trying to do something with someone in sweden simultaneously so i may be distractomundo 17:05:43 <jzb> mattdm: +1 17:06:02 <rbergeron> but if you scream i'll say I'M HERE I'M HERE , no free time for u today! 17:06:05 <geppetto> rbergeron: That probably sounds more awesome than it is :) 17:06:33 <samkottler> #topic PRD 17:06:40 <samkottler> sooo the PRD... 17:06:44 <mattdm> I started one PRD related thread on the mailing list, about use cases... 17:06:49 <mattdm> that seemed productive. :) 17:07:30 <mattdm> I think maybe that's the next approach -- to take some of the sections and talk about them in chunks like that on the list. 17:07:40 <samkottler> I think we should decide if we want specific use cases for each private & public cloud 17:07:40 <mattdm> since we can't get everyone together on irc very easily 17:07:47 <samkottler> I'm leaning pretty heavily toward "no" 17:08:01 <mattdm> samkottler right that was the specific thing :) 17:08:22 <jzb> mattdm: I tried that with the section I worked on... 17:08:28 <jzb> got a little feedback. 17:08:39 <jzb> still wondering what "major themes" should be, though. 17:09:00 <samkottler> the server WG put this together 17:09:01 <samkottler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Personas 17:09:05 <mattdm> My thought there is that -- with the *possible* exception of market-dominating EC2 -- the actual cloud tech isn't actually the use case itself. 17:09:12 <samkottler> and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Use_Cases#Questions_.2F_Discussion_Po… 17:10:45 <samkottler> mattdm: yeah exactly 17:10:50 <mattdm> rbergeron -- hey what does major themese mean? 17:11:17 <samkottler> the use cases are 'what are the different reasons people care about fedora in the cloud space' 17:11:24 <samkottler> and who are the people 17:11:28 <mattdm> samkottler So I'm going to replace that section with something like what I posted to the list. 17:11:35 <samkottler> mattdm: +1 17:11:48 <mattdm> and we can work on refining it from there. 17:12:22 <mattdm> mrunge had a bunch of other ones.... 17:12:25 <rbergeron> mattdm: think of it as groupings of major ... stories or features 17:12:28 <rbergeron> if that makes sense? 17:12:34 <rbergeron> feel free to ... do ... whatever 17:12:45 <mattdm> rbergeron ah, okay, yeah, that definitely makes sense. 17:13:58 <jzb> rbergeron: gotcha. OK 17:14:02 <mattdm> mrunge's use cases make me go back to an earlier thing I talked about -- cloud image as a cloud guest vs. other fedora products running in the cloud 17:14:47 <mattdm> for example, an old school mail server seems like it probably really fits best in the server wg even if it happens to be hosted in a cloud environment. 17:15:01 <samkottler> agreed 17:15:19 <mattdm> a mail server as part of some larger cloud application (the part that sends out notiications or subscriptions or something) might fit in 17:15:24 <samkottler> and when we talked with sgallagh there was rough agreement that we'd be responsible for the cloud specific stuff and they'd control the rest 17:15:37 <mattdm> I'll respond on the list with these thoughts. 17:15:46 <jzb> mattdm: +1 17:16:03 <jzb> mattdm: I don't really see many people running just a mail server in the cloud as a stand-alone 17:16:30 <mattdm> jzb especially since IP space for all public clouds is a spam blackhole. 17:16:33 <jzb> (though, a Fedora instance that can be fired up as a plug and play mail server might be a nice thing to have these days with the concerns about the NSA/Google, etc." 17:16:49 <jzb> (setting up a mail server is still way more difficult than it should be) 17:16:54 <jzb> mattdm: indeed. 17:17:05 <sgallagh> jzb: For the record, that's something we're exploring as a "role" for the Fedora Server 17:17:13 <jzb> sgallagh: explore faster! :-) 17:17:16 <mattdm> the cloud desktop use case is similar -- I think it's interesting, but also very, very different from the rest of our focus. 17:17:27 <jzb> sgallagh: it's one of my holiday projects 17:17:36 <sgallagh> jzb: Please collaborate with us, then! 17:17:52 <sgallagh> We're planning to focus on two or three roles at first. 17:17:58 <mattdm> I talked to someone at LISA who runs infrastructure for a medium/large law firm and they use fedora on the desktop in exactly this way 17:18:03 <jzb> sgallagh: I'll see what I can do. 17:18:07 <sgallagh> If we have someone willing to get their hands dirty for a mail server, that would go a long way 17:19:04 * sgallagh returns to lurking 17:19:54 <mattdm> But I think the hosted desktop use case is more something for the desktop WG -- or possibly a different SIG of its own 17:20:39 <frankieonuonga> hi folks...sorry i am late 17:21:10 <samkottler> mattdm: we should probably start a convo with the desktop WG about how to handle that 17:21:10 <jzb> mattdm: VDI gets into a lot of areas that it would make sense to have its own SIG, I think. 17:21:28 * mattdm nods 17:21:38 * samkottler agrees with jzb 17:22:01 <frankieonuonga> can someone please bring me up to speed 17:22:23 <mattdm> frankieonuonga we're talking about the PRD 17:22:37 <mattdm> right now, use cases -- just referring to the message I posted about that on the mailing list 17:23:01 <frankieonuonga> mattdm: thank you 17:24:03 <mattdm> Is there another area we should start a mailing list thread about? 17:24:35 <samkottler> #action samkottler to start thread to desktop WG about desktop virtualization 17:24:52 <jzb> mattdm: who's on the detailed requirements section? 17:25:07 <jzb> or are we holding that for use cases? 17:25:14 <mattdm> i think we need to get the use cases nailed down 17:25:17 <jzb> K 17:26:39 <mattdm> and crickets :) 17:27:07 <samkottler> do we want to go over the product branding doc again? 17:27:17 <frankieonuonga> just a sec before we go there 17:27:49 <frankieonuonga> i posted something on that doc and I think it is not that good..but i need to know if it is in the right dirction 17:28:10 <frankieonuonga> can someone please just have a quick look at apache cloudstack section 17:28:39 * mattdm looks 17:28:48 <samkottler> I think we'll ultimately end up removing those individual sections 17:29:23 <frankieonuonga> i agree with samkottler because that section is all IAAS. that should all be the same. 17:29:23 <mattdm> I don't think it hurts to have a "target environments" section, just not under use cases 17:29:35 <frankieonuonga> independent of the interfacing software 17:30:39 <mattdm> does anyone feel inspired to start filling out the second half of the document? 17:31:12 <samkottler> I can take the Logging and Configuration management sections 17:31:29 <mattdm> also the release cycle / updates things we talked about previously should go in here somewhere. 17:31:51 <frankieonuonga> release cycles is something i can work on 17:32:01 <mattdm> cool thanks 17:32:01 <frankieonuonga> considering i volunteered to help dgilmore with that 17:32:06 <mattdm> yeah :) 17:32:19 <jzb> mattdm: I can take support requirements 17:32:48 <samkottler> some of these are a little meta (i.e. releases) and others feel more technical 17:32:53 <samkottler> should we split them into two sections? 17:33:02 <mattdm> samkottler yes good suggestion. 17:33:06 <jzb> for "release criteria" are we adopting standard Fedora release criteria? 17:33:18 <jzb> is there anything really original we need to consider there? 17:33:41 <mattdm> jzb I think that section should be general and point to something about how we will define/enhance/implement updated cloud criteria 17:33:54 <mattdm> we don't want the actual release criteria in this document 17:34:38 <jzb> K 17:36:35 <samkottler> okay seems like there are people who are going to be working on the majority of the sections 17:36:48 <samkottler> I'll have a bunch of time over the weekend to work on it 17:37:19 <mattdm> awesome. I think "generally jump in and work on anything" applies. Even adding a sentence to some blank section helps. 17:38:10 <frankieonuonga> isnt the deadline 15th 17:38:26 <mattdm> yeah we are not going to make that deadline :) 17:38:32 <frankieonuonga> or when are we suppose to be done..cause if we do not meet his we need to get guys to hack away on this 17:38:38 <samkottler> frankieonuonga: the deadline is one that we set for ourselves 17:38:50 <mattdm> We are supposed to be done in january. But it seemed like it would be good to have a draft by next week. 17:38:53 <frankieonuonga> oh yeah...that is the one i suggested 17:38:55 <frankieonuonga> ha ha 17:38:57 <mattdm> because of the holidays 17:38:57 <frankieonuonga> how can i forget 17:39:03 <mattdm> It was not a bad plan :) 17:39:06 <frankieonuonga> thank you guys 17:39:22 <frankieonuonga> yeah i recall now mattdm and sam 17:39:28 <frankieonuonga> thank you for implementing this 17:39:43 <samkottler> I don't have anything else to bring up today unless folks want to go over the production branding 17:39:46 <samkottler> product** 17:40:09 <jzb> samkottler: you're referring to the ticket responding to Mo's query? 17:40:15 <samkottler> jzb: yep 17:40:18 <frankieonuonga> i would like to go through that and hear what guys have to say 17:40:25 <jzb> samkottler: er, that was due last week 17:40:34 <samkottler> ah right 17:40:35 <jzb> samkottler: I took the feedback we had and sent it on last week 17:40:36 * samkottler remembers now 17:40:42 <samkottler> jzb+++++ 17:41:08 <jzb> I haven't gotten an ACK yet, but I'm assuming it's received... 17:41:33 <samkottler> #topic open floor 17:41:42 <samkottler> anyone got anything else to bring up before we call it quits for the day? 17:42:47 <jzb> nope 17:42:50 * samkottler takes that as a no 17:43:02 <samkottler> #endmeeting

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cloud December 2013