On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
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On 02/26/2014 11:42 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 11:14 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 02:59:00PM +0000, Colin Walters wrote:
Yeah, agreed here. Everyone wants the latest shiniest thing, even if that thing isn't ready. I really don't want to wade through tons of bug reports for btrfs just because it has a lot of hype.
Also, right now cloud is plain old ext4. Let's see if we can ship *all* of the filesystems! It'll be fun!
Cloud could switch to XFS along with server. The main problem is that it'd make us revisit booting -- either 1) some work into lightening up grub2, 2) testing and possibly enhancing syslinux's xfs support, or 3) a separate /boot with a different filesystem. I don't really love any of those options.
I'm always dubious of 'there shall be only one' decrees - be it installers or desktop environments or file systems.
I have no problems (personally) about allowing the different products to select different default filesystems. The reason people choose different filesystems is to serve different workloads, so I think this is just an extension of that.
Also, as has already been pointed out: there are Fedora systems out there using ext4, xfs, btrfs and probably a few other file systems today. If we now suddenly change track and consider btrfs not 'safe enough', wasn't it pretty irresponsible of us to let people use it for their installations ?
I think we're saying "it's not stable enough for the *default*". That's a different statement from "it's not stable enough for use".
For the workstation, I think the options are
- switch to btrfs soon to give it the exposure it needs to get
ready (while being careful to limit the supported features, as suse does)
I'm slightly in favor of this for the Workstation, personally. Without wide adoption, btrfs will never get any better.
No, that isn't true. Without wide adoption you may not have any impetus for btrfs to get better. However, it getting better is dependent upon wider development, maintenance, and testing. I'm not sure we are in a position to actually do that, and that is the bulk of my hesitation. Throwing something upon Fedora users as a default with the hopes that it will improve is pretty horrible in my opinion, particularly if we aren't able to actually fix things they find.
josh
Hi
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
No, that isn't true. Without wide adoption you may not have any impetus for btrfs to get better. However, it getting better is dependent upon wider development, maintenance, and testing. I'm not sure we are in a position to actually do that, and that is the bulk of my hesitation. Throwing something upon Fedora users as a default with the hopes that it will improve is pretty horrible in my opinion, particularly if we aren't able to actually fix things they find.
Does Fedora or more specifically Red Hat have anyone working on Btrfs upstream that can help guide the path forward? It can't be possibly be the right decision to let Btrfs be struck in the current position for too long.
Rahul
Does Red Hat provide support for Fedora? If not then in my opinion btrfs would be a great use case for Fedora to push upstream to RHEL. With XFS defaulting in RHEL 7 that's cool so I think we should be ahead of the curve not an Ubuntu competitor or a glorified RHEL release. Like I said in my opinion. On Feb 26, 2014 1:08 PM, "Rahul Sundaram" metherid@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
No, that isn't true. Without wide adoption you may not have any impetus for btrfs to get better. However, it getting better is dependent upon wider development, maintenance, and testing. I'm not sure we are in a position to actually do that, and that is the bulk of my hesitation. Throwing something upon Fedora users as a default with the hopes that it will improve is pretty horrible in my opinion, particularly if we aren't able to actually fix things they find.
Does Fedora or more specifically Red Hat have anyone working on Btrfs upstream that can help guide the path forward? It can't be possibly be the right decision to let Btrfs be struck in the current position for too long.
Rahul
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On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
No, that isn't true. Without wide adoption you may not have any impetus for btrfs to get better. However, it getting better is dependent upon wider development, maintenance, and testing. I'm not sure we are in a position to actually do that, and that is the bulk of my hesitation. Throwing something upon Fedora users as a default with the hopes that it will improve is pretty horrible in my opinion, particularly if we aren't able to actually fix things they find.
Does Fedora or more specifically Red Hat have anyone working on Btrfs upstream that can help guide the path forward? It can't be possibly be the right decision to let Btrfs be struck in the current position for too long.
Fedora is harder to quantify because of the community aspect. I can say that there is nobody on the Fedora Engineering Team (which the Fedora kernel team is a part of) that is working on btrfs upstream. We do have Fedora contributors like Chris Murphy and others who have been doing a lot of testing and bug reporting around btrfs for a while though.
I have less insight as to broader Red Hat involvement. Btrfs is a tech preview in the RHEL7 Beta, so some level of participation is to be expected. How much that translates to upstream development is unclear.
josh
On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 14:05 -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
I have less insight as to broader Red Hat involvement. Btrfs is a
IIRC RH employed one or two of the primary btrfs devs for a while, but we don't any more. I want to say one of them is working at Facebook now, but I'm not 100% sure.
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