We are just a few weeks away from the Fedora 14 release, and actually having a new version of Fedora on EC2. This has been *the* major goal over the past, well, 10 months since this list was created, and I'm delighted that it is finally coming together. (Thank you, Justin, for doing all of this work, and everyone else who has been working on supporting his efforts and helping out with behind-the-scenes stuff like talking to Amazon and writing documentation and asking questions!)
Of course, this is Fedora, and I know a lot of us are thinking about *what we can do next*. So I'd like to have a discussion here on our friendly mailing-list about some of the things we'd like to do in F15 (and beyond!).
First off: We have a lot of stuff in the pipeline that I think we could submit to the Feature List for Fedora 15. What is this "stuff," you might ask?
* OpenStack - We already have the Swift portion of this in, and Nova is in the pipeline. (Thanks, silassewell.) http://www.openstack.org * Deltacloud - I'm not sure how far along this is, or if it's possible that this could be fully in for F15, or if there are clearly definable portions that could be F15 features. Anyone from Deltacloud - can you pipe in here? :) http://deltacloud.org/ * BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging. http://www.jboss.org/boxgrinder * Eucalyptus - obino has been looking for some mentorship as far as packaging goes. If there are folks around to help out with this, I think it would be awesome to have as a feature. Is anyone willing to help out here? http://open.eucalyptus.com/ * Sheepdog - Steven Dake is working on this. http://www.osrg.net/sheepdog/
Additionally, we probably have further enhancements we could make on the EC2 front - namely, having really awesome documentation, which Sparks has been poking the list on since he'd love to help us out there. What other EC2-related enhancements are there for us to tackle?
But what I am interested in is - what do YOU guys think about what we could, or even *should*, be doing? Are there other cloud tools, implementations, projects, etc. we should be looking at? What are they? What should Fedora's ongoing cloud-sig focus be?
Yes, I know, I'm full of questions. :)
Cheers,
-Robyn
Robyn Bergeron wrote:
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
We should try getting this working sooner rather than later so we can use it for building images in a manner that's easy to include in the release process. The word on the street is that Koji can spin appliance images of some sort; perhaps we could leverage that somehow.
- Eucalyptus - obino has been looking for some mentorship as far as
packaging goes. If there are folks around to help out with this, I think it would be awesome to have as a feature. Is anyone willing to help out here? http://open.eucalyptus.com/
It's a long and obnoxious process to do it the "right" way. Thankfully Eucalyptus is building a dedicated release engineering team whose job is, among other things, to make packaging less of a pain.
Additionally, we probably have further enhancements we could make on the EC2 front - namely, having really awesome documentation, which Sparks has been poking the list on since he'd love to help us out there. What other EC2-related enhancements are there for us to tackle?
I think we should port cloud-init to Fedora so users can configure new instances using a popular, existing method that we don't have to build from the ground up. I'm looking into that at the moment; does anyone else want to help?
On 2010-10-22, at 23:23, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
Robyn Bergeron wrote:
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
We should try getting this working sooner rather than later so we can use it for building images in a manner that's easy to include in the release process. The word on the street is that Koji can spin appliance images of some sort; perhaps we could leverage that somehow.
+1
I have some problems with euca2ools as described here:
https://jira.jboss.org/browse/BGBUILD-55
and help from euca developers would be appreciated :) After I have this fixed – I'm almost ready to start BG inclusion process for F13+.
--Marek
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:00:24AM +0200, Marek Goldmann wrote:
On 2010-10-22, at 23:23, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
Robyn Bergeron wrote:
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
We should try getting this working sooner rather than later so we can use it for building images in a manner that's easy to include in the release process. The word on the street is that Koji can spin appliance images of some sort; perhaps we could leverage that somehow.
+1
I have some problems with euca2ools as described here:
https://jira.jboss.org/browse/BGBUILD-55
and help from euca developers would be appreciated :) After I have this fixed – I'm almost ready to start BG inclusion process for F13+.
Marek,
I think you already mentioned to me, but I don't see in the bug report: have you already tried the new version of euca2ools? (the bug report mentions 1.2).
cheers graziano
--Marek
cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud
On 2010-11-05, at 07:18, graziano obertelli wrote:
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:00:24AM +0200, Marek Goldmann wrote:
On 2010-10-22, at 23:23, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
Robyn Bergeron wrote:
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
We should try getting this working sooner rather than later so we can use it for building images in a manner that's easy to include in the release process. The word on the street is that Koji can spin appliance images of some sort; perhaps we could leverage that somehow.
+1
I have some problems with euca2ools as described here:
https://jira.jboss.org/browse/BGBUILD-55
and help from euca developers would be appreciated :) After I have this fixed – I'm almost ready to start BG inclusion process for F13+.
Marek,
I think you already mentioned to me, but I don't see in the bug report: have you already tried the new version of euca2ools? (the bug report mentions 1.2).
Graziano,
My bug (reported upstream) [1] talks about latest available version for Fedora: euca2ools-1.3.1-1.fc13.noarch. The latest comment on my JIRA is a bug report I found similar to my issue.
As we talked on IRC – I'll provide a disk image so you can dig a bit more.
Thanks!
--Marek
On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 09:05:35AM +0100, Marek Goldmann wrote:
On 2010-11-05, at 07:18, graziano obertelli wrote:
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:00:24AM +0200, Marek Goldmann wrote:
On 2010-10-22, at 23:23, Garrett Holmstrom wrote:
Robyn Bergeron wrote:
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
We should try getting this working sooner rather than later so we can use it for building images in a manner that's easy to include in the release process. The word on the street is that Koji can spin appliance images of some sort; perhaps we could leverage that somehow.
+1
I have some problems with euca2ools as described here:
https://jira.jboss.org/browse/BGBUILD-55
and help from euca developers would be appreciated :) After I have this fixed – I'm almost ready to start BG inclusion process for F13+.
Marek,
I think you already mentioned to me, but I don't see in the bug report: have you already tried the new version of euca2ools? (the bug report mentions 1.2).
Graziano,
My bug (reported upstream) [1] talks about latest available version for Fedora: euca2ools-1.3.1-1.fc13.noarch. The latest comment on my JIRA is a bug report I found similar to my issue.
As we talked on IRC – I'll provide a disk image so you can dig a bit more.
Thanks!
Great: if you don't find me on IRC drop me an email.
cheers graziano
--Marek
[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/euca2ools/+bug/665667
cloud mailing list cloud@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cloud
On 10/22/10 - 11:50:25AM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
We are just a few weeks away from the Fedora 14 release, and actually having a new version of Fedora on EC2. This has been *the* major goal over the past, well, 10 months since this list was created, and I'm delighted that it is finally coming together. (Thank you, Justin, for doing all of this work, and everyone else who has been working on supporting his efforts and helping out with behind-the-scenes stuff like talking to Amazon and writing documentation and asking questions!)
Of course, this is Fedora, and I know a lot of us are thinking about *what we can do next*. So I'd like to have a discussion here on our friendly mailing-list about some of the things we'd like to do in F15 (and beyond!).
First off: We have a lot of stuff in the pipeline that I think we could submit to the Feature List for Fedora 15. What is this "stuff," you might ask?
- OpenStack - We already have the Swift portion of this in, and Nova
is in the pipeline. (Thanks, silassewell.) http://www.openstack.org
- Deltacloud - I'm not sure how far along this is, or if it's possible
that this could be fully in for F15, or if there are clearly definable portions that could be F15 features. Anyone from Deltacloud - can you pipe in here? :) http://deltacloud.org/
Yeah, this is definitely do-able. Rapid development is ongoing, but there are preliminary packages that work here: http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/deltacloud/. We have started submitting most of those packages for Fedora. A few of them still need reviews complete, and a few of them still need to be packaged. There is a single package in our required package list that is problematic, which is the RPM of ec2 tools from Amazon. We don't believe that the license is open enough to allow us to package/re-distribute it in Fedora (though we have not talked to lawyers about it, so we could be wrong). Other than that getting deltacloud into Fedora 15 should be doable.
- BoxGrinder - Marek Goldmann is working on packaging.
http://www.jboss.org/boxgrinder
- Eucalyptus - obino has been looking for some mentorship as far as
packaging goes. If there are folks around to help out with this, I think it would be awesome to have as a feature. Is anyone willing to help out here? http://open.eucalyptus.com/
- Sheepdog - Steven Dake is working on this. http://www.osrg.net/sheepdog/
Additionally, we probably have further enhancements we could make on the EC2 front - namely, having really awesome documentation, which Sparks has been poking the list on since he'd love to help us out there. What other EC2-related enhancements are there for us to tackle?
But what I am interested in is - what do YOU guys think about what we could, or even *should*, be doing? Are there other cloud tools, implementations, projects, etc. we should be looking at? What are they? What should Fedora's ongoing cloud-sig focus be?
We (deltacloud cloud engine) have some plans to implement a different kind of cloud image building agent, one that should work for building any kind of operating system (Linux, Windows, etc). In effect it could just be another, more generic plugin for boxgrinder. Additionally, we are planning on introducing the ability to start with a cloud image, and modify that cloud image to come up with a new image based on the original.
All of this is just in planning stages, so we don't have any code yet. But we are hoping to have something to show for this before the Fedora 15 timeframe. We'll keep you guys informed of progress as we work on it.
- OpenStack - We already have the Swift portion of this in, and Nova
is in the pipeline. (Thanks, silassewell.) http://www.openstack.org
this is big; more players are jumping in with serious cloud offerings, and soon AWS won't be the only real option (as rackspace doesn't really do "cloud" quite yet, they're more still just VM hosting...for now). Something that allows us to not be provider-specific, like OpenStack (which is, oddly, a rackspace-started thing, iirc...) is a Very Good Thing(tm).
- Eucalyptus - obino has been looking for some mentorship as far as
packaging goes. If there are folks around to help out with this, I think it would be awesome to have as a feature. Is anyone willing to help out here? http://open.eucalyptus.com/
I'm really excited to see their interest in Fedora.
Unfortunately, I can't mentor, since I'm not a packager myself ;) I will go help review the two packages mentioned in the meeting, for my journey down that road. I can't atm justify working on things too far out of stuff that is relevant for my daily work; my employer is very supportive of OSS, but not if it means they're paying me to work on something completely irrelevant to my job ;) So I've had a problem finding things to review. I have a couple packages I could look at trying to get in that are smaller, and am willing to help them out on this...just not as a mentor. Eucalyptus is something I wanted to use in the past, but didn't because it wasn't immediately Fedora-happy; if a time-saving tool doesn't save time, then I can't use it. I *can* help develop it (on my company's timeclock) to be Fedora happy though, if it's something that they're doing - so I'm very on board with helping there.
there. What other EC2-related enhancements are there for us to tackle?
wanna know something funny? The S3 mirror tool that we need for the yum repos, is a tool that could easily be made a very useful public tool. A tool that does something simple, such as take a flat-file structure - and has rsync-like functionality using basic GET/POST/PUT calls (such as how S3 is used)...would be fantastic. It would be very useful to the community. A minor amount of extra work could make the tool useful on a much more broad level than just yum<->S3. I would really like to see such a tool be made it's own project. Could even just look at s3sync.rb as a place to start a fork from; that tool is slow and doesn't copy large amounts of info, but it's at least a start (even if it's in Ruby...). http://code.google.com/p/s3sync-s3cmd/source/list
Brian
On 10/29/2010 12:50, Brian LaMere wrote:
* Eucalyptus - obino has been looking for some mentorship as far as packaging goes. If there are folks around to help out with this, I think it would be awesome to have as a feature. Is anyone willing to help out here? http://open.eucalyptus.com/I'm really excited to see their interest in Fedora.
Unfortunately, I can't mentor, since I'm not a packager myself ;) I will go help review the two packages mentioned in the meeting, for my journey down that road. I can't atm justify working on things too far out of stuff that is relevant for my daily work; my employer is very supportive of OSS, but not if it means they're paying me to work on something completely irrelevant to my job ;) So I've had a problem finding things to review. I have a couple packages I could look at trying to get in that are smaller, and am willing to help them out on this...just not as a mentor. Eucalyptus is something I wanted to use in the past, but didn't because it wasn't immediately Fedora-happy; if a time-saving tool doesn't save time, then I can't use it. I *can* help develop it (on my company's timeclock) to be Fedora happy though, if it's something that they're doing - so I'm very on board with helping there.
The Eucalyptus people are very interested in getting help with that; their biggest problem has been a lack of manpower. They're even hiring me to, among other things, do just that. ;)
On 10/29/2010 01:50 PM, Brian LaMere wrote:
wanna know something funny? The S3 mirror tool that we need for the yum repos, is a tool that could easily be made a very useful public tool. A tool that does something simple, such as take a flat-file structure - and has rsync-like functionality using basic GET/POST/PUT calls (such as how S3 is used)...would be fantastic. It would be very useful to the community. A minor amount of extra work could make the tool useful on a much more broad level than just yum<->S3. I would really like to see such a tool be made it's own project.
Could you elaborate a bit more on exactly what your requirements are? There might be a way to modify iwhd (Deltacloud's Image WareHouse Daemon) and/or wrap a script around it to do all sorts of migrations between POSIX, S3/GSD and Swift/CloudFiles (now) plus more data-store types coming soon.
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:50:13 -0700 Brian LaMere brian@cukerinteractive.com wrote:
wanna know something funny? The S3 mirror tool that we need for the yum repos, is a tool that could easily be made a very useful public tool. A tool that does something simple, such as take a flat-file structure - and has rsync-like functionality using basic GET/POST/PUT calls (such as how S3 is used)...would be fantastic. It would be very useful to the community.
This reminds me, we package an S3 server (tabled) in Fedora since F12. I do not quite understand what the advantage of integrating yum with S3 would be, but we can do it in Fedora today if we want.
[] Could even just look at s3sync.rb as a place to start a fork from; that tool is slow and doesn't copy large amounts of info, but it's at least a start (even if it's in Ruby...).
Yeah Ruby is a no-go. Fortunately yum itself is in Python, and Boto is not all that bad as a library.
-- Pete
On 11/1/2010 14:14, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:50:13 -0700 Brian LaMerebrian@cukerinteractive.com wrote: I do not quite understand what the advantage of integrating yum with S3 would be, but we can do it in Fedora today if we want.
We wouldn't be integrating yum itself with S3; we would be putting copies of Fedora's mirrors on S3 so instances can pull from there instead of public mirrors. The EC2 mirror proposal page [1] has lots of details.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gholms/EC2_Mirror_Proposal
cloud@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org
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Brian LaMere -
Chris Lalancette -
Garrett Holmstrom -
graziano obertelli -
Jeff Darcy -
Marek Goldmann -
Pete Zaitcev -
Robyn Bergeron