desktop November 2004

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kde is bugging in fc3
by a j 25 Nov '04

25 Nov '04

1 0

Re: "Professionalism" syntax
by Wally Wilson 24 Nov '04

24 Nov '04

> Words mean things, and the Fedora package is every bit as > "professional" as any other Linux distro. -ww actually, it's not, it is explicitly a hobbyist distro. see the website. -sv -------------------- My point, exactly. You purchase Mandrake, Xandros, or SuSe. You download Fedora Core, Debian, Slackware, etc. "Professionals" get paid and do what they do for a living. The best idea so far, is to divide the screensavers into three packages. -wally

12 28

utmpx/wtmpx
by Sean Bruno 24 Nov '04

24 Nov '04

Does anyone know how to debug login record issues or who to talk to about login record issues? I am experiencing a weird issue described in bugzilla 140297 and I would like to debug it myself, but I don't seem to be able to find anyone to assist me with it. Sean

2 1

EVO 2 and Exchange
by Sean Bruno 23 Nov '04

23 Nov '04

I was wondering if there is a bug with the "delegation" feature of the EVO2 calendars that anyone has heard of? I am attempting to allow an admin to muck with my calendar and she can access my calendar on the Exchange server, but she cannot change it even though I set her as a "Publishing Editor." Any ideas? --

1 0

After a week with FC3
by tony 22 Nov '04

22 Nov '04

Over the last week I have done two clean installs of FC3 on my hush (Epia M10000). The first time round I did an "everything" install just to check out what is new and the apps which I don't normally use. It took 70+ minutes and went smoothly. Second time after breaking the system* I did my normal Gnome workstation install with a few development tools. The machine is faster - boot time is shorter. Most stuff works really well. *I broke the system trying to install lirc and DVB into udev. Hey this is the 21st century - what is a computer without a digital satellite card and remote. Especially in a living room home office. Another problem is getting my Evolution 1.4 mail archives back into Evolution 2. There must be an easier way than one at a time from the old inbox. I plugged my Logitec Pocket digital in and, although I get the camera dialogue box, can not import the photos on it to my HD. I knew that this was because it is an experimental driver. To get VMware installed I had to jump through hoops to install the kernel source. OK this won't bug the average Joe but there are people who have been using a Linux desktop since 1997... Read: some of us have legacy apps... I plugged a firewire DVD-R in and it just worked. No luck with a USB key on the other hand. I still don't like Bluecurve and will have to grab some themes. This one is a 8/10 (FC1 was 7/10) so things are moving along nicely. The devil is in the details. Rather than great swooping changes most apps seem to be at the stage of need a final polish. Cheers Tony Grant

2 2

FC3 CD Art
by Arthur Pemberton 16 Nov '04

16 Nov '04

Where can I find cd art (labels, sleeves, etc) for Fedora Core 3? Or at the very list good graphics to make one myself? Thanks

2 2

Re: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 3
by Moreshwar Salpekar 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

I do not know where to get FC 3 I am able to lay hands on FC2 only lay idea where to get Fedora 3 CDs (In India). If I could lay hands on that I will install FC 3. Thanks for help Regards Moreshwar ----- Original Message ----- From: <fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com> To: <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 15:26 Subject: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 3 > Send Fedora-desktop-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-desktop-list-owner(a)redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fedora-desktop-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Serial ATA Supprt (Moreshwar Salpekar) > 2. FC3 desktop can`t log out or reboot (Kaspars) > 3. Re: Serial ATA Supprt (Arturo) > 4. Re: Professionalism (Kyrre Ness Sjobak) > 5. Re: Serial ATA Supprt (Alex Catullo) > 6. Re: FC3 desktop can`t log out or reboot (Jon Orris) > 7. Re: "Professionalism" (Matthew Miller) > 8. Re: Professionalism (Alex Catullo) > 9. Re: Professionalism (Jason Knight) > 10. Re: "Professinalism" syntax (Wally Wilson) > 11. Re: Professionalism (Arturo) > 12. Re: "Professinalism" syntax (seth vidal) > 13. Re: Professionalism (Matthew Miller) > 14. Re: Professionalism (Dave Jones) > 15. Re: Professionalism (Arturo) > 16. Re: Professionalism (Douglas Furlong) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:00:25 +0530 > From: "Moreshwar Salpekar" <moreshwars(a)hotmail.com> > Subject: Serial ATA Supprt > To: <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <BAY18-DAV184nhrKtzc00010166(a)hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear All, > I am new to this group. I just got a PC with motherboard Intel 915GAV. It > has two Serial ATA Hard disks one of 120GB with WinXP and other 80GB I want > to use for Fedora. I want to know what core of Fedore I should go for. I got > Fedora Core 1 but it is unable to detect my hard drives. Will Fedora Core 2 > Help? > I read somewhere that Linux Kernel 2.6.x supports Serial ATA but Fedora docs > mention nowhere on Serial ATA support is it there in fedora? If not where do > I get Serial ATA driver? I looked at Seagate site (both my hard drives are > Seagate) but nothing there on Serial ATA driver for Linux? > > I want to install Fedora asap. > > Regards > Moreshwar > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:15:58 +0200 > From: Kaspars <kaspars(a)os.lv> > Subject: FC3 desktop can`t log out or reboot > To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > Message-ID: <41939E4E.2070105(a)os.lv> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > Hi all, > > I get FC3 DVD diska and installed fresh FC3 on my desktop wrk. > I boot in GUI and log in. My problem is that I can`t log out or reboot > or halt computer from GUI from desktop... i use defalt desktop what it > use. I updated all but still problem how i see is not corrected(maybe it > is only my pc problem). > So what I do is in FC3(I think def. I use Gnome), I want to reboot pc > and I go Action -> Log Out -> Chek "Restart the computer" and push Ok. > and it hangs. The some is with "Log out" or "Shut down"... I need to go > to console bu ctrl+alt+F1 and log in as root and command to reboot. > How and where to fix it? And I only have satch problem? > > thanks all, > > Casper > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:51:36 +0000 > From: Arturo <dalive(a)flashmail.com> > Subject: Re: Serial ATA Supprt > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <4193A6A8.405(a)flashmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Moreshwar Salpekar wrote: > > >Dear All, > >I am new to this group. I just got a PC with motherboard Intel 915GAV. It > >has two Serial ATA Hard disks one of 120GB with WinXP and other 80GB I want > >to use for Fedora. I want to know what core of Fedore I should go for. I got > >Fedora Core 1 but it is unable to detect my hard drives. Will Fedora Core 2 > >Help? > >I read somewhere that Linux Kernel 2.6.x supports Serial ATA but Fedora docs > >mention nowhere on Serial ATA support is it there in fedora? If not where do > >I get Serial ATA driver? I looked at Seagate site (both my hard drives are > >Seagate) but nothing there on Serial ATA driver for Linux? > > > >I want to install Fedora asap. > > > >Regards > >Moreshwar > > > > > > > I am no guru. But I have an SATA HDD in my Linux server. And I built it > from scratch (components) . My motherboard also has an SATA port, I > installed FC2 without a hitch. I didn't try FC1 on that setup. > > BTW.....any reason why you're not installing FC3? > > Peace > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:08:39 +0100 > From: Kyrre Ness Sjobak <kyrre(a)solution-forge.net> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1100196519.2683.3.camel@kyrre> > Content-Type: text/plain > > tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal: > > On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc(a)juno.com wrote: > > > To the developers, > > > > > > The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be > > > a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches > > > this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek > > > OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user > > > was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women > > > (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main > > > OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it. > > > > > > With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. > > > Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux > > > distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the > > > pack' in this area. > > > > > > This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the > > > content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These > > > screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I > > > would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I > > > install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? > > > Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I > > > can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need > > > to download or purchase them after installing the OS. > > > > > > Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora > > > distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as > > > possible. > > > > I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most > > professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of > > things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should > > respect the differences between people and let adults choose what > > behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend > > screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a > > screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this > > anti-professional degradation. > > > > > > oh.. wait.. they're already there. > > > > hmm. > > > > -sv > > > > Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile > in... lets say a school. > > What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three > rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and > "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by > default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be > removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they > suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:20:30 -0500 > From: Alex Catullo <freelance0(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Serial ATA Supprt > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <6dc131f204111110201af49795(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Fedora core 2 and 3 should both detect SATA. If you still have trouble > with it, in the BIOS menu, go to the "advanced" tab and look at the > IDE configuration. By default, the IDE settings are set to "enhanced" > Switch that to "legacy" and make sure SATA 0 and IDE pri and sec are > active. > > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:00:25 +0530, Moreshwar Salpekar > <moreshwars(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am new to this group. I just got a PC with motherboard Intel 915GAV. It > > has two Serial ATA Hard disks one of 120GB with WinXP and other 80GB I want > > to use for Fedora. I want to know what core of Fedore I should go for. I got > > Fedora Core 1 but it is unable to detect my hard drives. Will Fedora Core 2 > > Help? > > I read somewhere that Linux Kernel 2.6.x supports Serial ATA but Fedora docs > > mention nowhere on Serial ATA support is it there in fedora? If not where do > > I get Serial ATA driver? I looked at Seagate site (both my hard drives are > > Seagate) but nothing there on Serial ATA driver for Linux? > > > > I want to install Fedora asap. > > > > Regards > > Moreshwar > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:31:16 -0500 > From: Jon Orris <jorris(a)redhat.com> > Subject: Re: FC3 desktop can`t log out or reboot > To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > Message-ID: <1100197876.3855.3.camel(a)web.checkm8.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 19:15 +0200, Kaspars wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I get FC3 DVD diska and installed fresh FC3 on my desktop wrk. > > I boot in GUI and log in. My problem is that I can`t log out or reboot > > or halt computer from GUI from desktop... i use defalt desktop what it > > use. I updated all but still problem how i see is not corrected(maybe it > > is only my pc problem). > > So what I do is in FC3(I think def. I use Gnome), I want to reboot pc > > and I go Action -> Log Out -> Chek "Restart the computer" and push Ok. > > and it hangs. The some is with "Log out" or "Shut down"... I need to go > > to console bu ctrl+alt+F1 and log in as root and command to reboot. > > How and where to fix it? And I only have satch problem? > > > > thanks all, > > >From your description, it sounds like this bug that I reported: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=134265 > > The current workaround is to disable DRI, at least on my machine. > > It may be helpful in tracking the root cause if you append your hardware > & xconfig info to the bug report. > > > -- > Jon Orris <jorris(a)redhat.com> > Red Hat > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:35:56 -0500 > From: Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)mattdm.org> > Subject: Re: "Professionalism" > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <20041111183556.GB30285(a)jadzia.bu.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:49:59AM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst > > taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the > > word 'flatulence'. > > That's one of the words that's patched out, actually. > > Hmm; on looking, the "sanitize-hacks" patch wasn't in FC2; it's new to FC3. > Perhaps right after the incident you mention. :) > > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> > Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:06:46 -0500 > From: Alex Catullo <freelance0(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <6dc131f20411111106640f5e9f(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Professionalism in linux is definitely a nice thing, but if you want > it, go out and get a copy of enterprise Linux. In Fedora, it's all > about the bleeding edge technology and newest ideas from the > community, and being "professional" limits that quite a bit. At least > in fedora ther'es the freedom for the creative things like the > "unprofessional" barcode and flying toasters screensavers. That's what > it's all about, the freedom to add any ideas; and that's why Fedora > isn't "professional" > > "I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and > "Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually > removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be > installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like > this is not included. Why?" > > Because this is Linux. Linux is meant to be that quirky OS that > releives the boredom of stock operating systems like windows. If you > want to be professional, use RHEL. But in Fedora, we strive to endorse > new ideas, regardless of their "professionality" > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:08:39 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > <kyrre(a)solution-forge.net> wrote: > > tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal: > > > > > > > On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc(a)juno.com wrote: > > > > To the developers, > > > > > > > > The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be > > > > a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches > > > > this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek > > > > OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user > > > > was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women > > > > (I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main > > > > OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it. > > > > > > > > With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. > > > > Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux > > > > distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the > > > > pack' in this area. > > > > > > > > This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the > > > > content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These > > > > screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I > > > > would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I > > > > install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? > > > > Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I > > > > can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need > > > > to download or purchase them after installing the OS. > > > > > > > > Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora > > > > distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as > > > > possible. > > > > > > I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most > > > professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of > > > things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should > > > respect the differences between people and let adults choose what > > > behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend > > > screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a > > > screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this > > > anti-professional degradation. > > > > > > > > > oh.. wait.. they're already there. > > > > > > hmm. > > > > > > -sv > > > > > > > Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile > > in... lets say a school. > > > > What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three > > rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and > > "xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by > > default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be > > removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they > > suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them. > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-desktop-list mailing list > > Fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:31:27 -0500 > From: Jason Knight <jason(a)cassiopaea.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Alex Catullo <freelance0(a)gmail.com>, Discussions about development > for the Fedora desktop <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <4193DA2F.5090409(a)cassiopaea.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > I understand both sides of the coin but I agree with Alex. Also; > > [And since most professionals are adults and know that world is filled > with all sorts of things that _you_ may not like but that others may[...]] > > This works both ways, Fedora is a project meant to encourage creativity > and contribution. It makes no claims to being "The Safest Linux for Your > Kids!", "Squeamish? Worry not dear fellow, we strive daily to insure > that you and your family are completely insolated from the peckidillos > and quirks of others!" > > "We either accept all freedom for all people, or we accept no freedom > for anyone. The happy medium is an illusion." > > Of course, Fedora is RH's project, and it is steered by a committee, so > we must abide by their decsions, but I don't see even mildly-moderately > offensive screensavers being a huge issue in an Open Source, community > driven project where creative innovation is desired. Let's try to keep a > light heart! > > > > -ishikawa > > > Alex Catullo wrote: > > >Professionalism in linux is definitely a nice thing, but if you want > >it, go out and get a copy of enterprise Linux. In Fedora, it's all > >about the bleeding edge technology and newest ideas from the > >community, and being "professional" limits that quite a bit. At least > >in fedora ther'es the freedom for the creative things like the > >"unprofessional" barcode and flying toasters screensavers. That's what > >it's all about, the freedom to add any ideas; and that's why Fedora > >isn't "professional" > > > > "I was rather disappointed with the content in the "WebCollage" and > >"Barcode" screensavers. These screensavers have since been manually > >removed from my system, but I would have preferred them not to be > >installed by default. When I install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like > >this is not included. Why?" > > > >Because this is Linux. Linux is meant to be that quirky OS that > >releives the boredom of stock operating systems like windows. If you > >want to be professional, use RHEL. But in Fedora, we strive to endorse > >new ideas, regardless of their "professionality" > > > >On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:08:39 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak > ><kyrre(a)solution-forge.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:28:51 -0800 > From: Wally Wilson <alt.wally(a)mousemeadows.com> > Subject: Re: "Professinalism" syntax > To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com > Message-ID: <1100212131.2230.10.camel(a)Laptron4020.attbi.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > > On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 10:49 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:34:40AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst > > taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the > > word 'flatulence'. > > > > Unfortunate and somewhat embarressing perhaps, but highly amusing. > > > > The choice of words barcode uses do seem to be of this nature a lot > > of the time, so I can sort of see the OPs point. > > I'm all for professionalism but I'm MORE for acting like an adult and > realizing the world isn't all roses and tea. > -sv > -------------------------------- > > The real issue -- the issue that the original author failed to address > -- is not about "professionalism" at all. The real issue is about > personal mores and taste. > > Words mean things, and the Fedora package is every bit as "professional" > as any other Linux distro. > > If someone does not like, or want something as simple as a screen saver, > for whatever reasons, it is their choice and their responsibility to > address the matter on each machine they administer. The same argument > could be made for including games in the distro when it is used in a > work environment that does not allow games. > > The responsibility for administering a system lies with the owner, not > the software manufacturer. MS has made good money trying to remove the > responsibility of system admin from its userbase, and that is not how > the real world works. > > -wally > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:06:40 +0000 > From: Arturo <dalive(a)flashmail.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <4193FE90.3090402(a)flashmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > >tor, 11.11.2004 kl. 16.08 skrev seth vidal: > > > > > >>On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:58 +0000, chapmanccc(a)juno.com wrote: > >> > >> > >>>To the developers, > >>> > >>>The Linux operating system is maturing and we all hope that it will be > >>>a major contender in the home and business markets. As it approaches > >>>this goal, the customer base changes. Linux is no longer the "geek > >>>OS" it once was. Where once the predominant profile of a Linux user > >>>was a young male, you now find fathers and husbands (I am both), women > >>>(I am married to one) and children (I have three). Linux is my main > >>>OS at home and my wife and oldest child also use it. > >>> > >>>With this evolution, a level of professionalism must also take place. > >>>Being that the Fedora project is one of the leading consumer Linux > >>>distributions, I would hope the developers would want to 'lead the > >>>pack' in this area. > >>> > >>>This brings me to my point. I was rather disappointed with the > >>>content in the "WebCollage" and "Barcode" screensavers. These > >>>screensavers have since been manually removed from my system, but I > >>>would have preferred them not to be installed by default. When I > >>>install Mac OS or Windows, garbage like this is not included. Why? > >>>Because the developers strive to build a professional product. Yes, I > >>>can install items like this with Mac OS or Windows, but I would need > >>>to download or purchase them after installing the OS. > >>> > >>>Developers, please be considerate when creating the Fedora > >>>distributions and let's strive to make Linux as professional as > >>>possible. > >>> > >>> > >>I agree, We should have more professional behavior. And since most > >>professionals are adults and know that world is filled with all sorts of > >>things that _you_ may not like but that others may, I think we should > >>respect the differences between people and let adults choose what > >>behavior of their screensavers they want. Therefore, I recommend > >>screensaver preferences! In EVERY DESKTOP! The ability to choose a > >>screensaver must be included in the distribution to put a stop to this > >>anti-professional degradation. > >> > >> > >>oh.. wait.. they're already there. > >> > >>hmm. > >> > >>-sv > >> > >> > >> > > > >Yes they are. But imagine removing those on every damn user profile > >in... lets say a school. > > > >What really should be done, is split the screensaverpackage in three > >rpms (at least) - "xscreensaver-safe", "xcsreensaver-gl", and > >"xscreensaver-others". At least the two first should be installed by > >default. The reason to split it, is that the gl package can then be > >removed safely from systems where it is not wanted. Simply beckause they > >suck CPU, and on non-hw-3d deployments, you migth not want them. > > > > > > > This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in > response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat > curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode. > > Peace > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:21:50 -0500 > From: seth vidal <skvidal(a)phy.duke.edu> > Subject: Re: "Professinalism" syntax > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1100218910.6926.10.camel@binkley> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > > Words mean things, and the Fedora package is every bit as "professional" > > as any other Linux distro. > > > actually, it's not, it is explicitly a hobbyist distro. > > see the website. > > -sv > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:31:45 -0500 > From: Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)mattdm.org> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <20041112003145.GA9755(a)jadzia.bu.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote: > > This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in > > response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat > > curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode. > > Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...): > > abdomen > abeyance > abhorrence > abrasion > abstraction > acid > addiction > alertness > Algeria > anxiety > aorta > argyle socks > attrition > axis of evil > bamboo > bangle > bankruptcy > baptism > beer > bellicosity > bells > belly > bliss > bogosity > booty > bread > bubba > burrito > California > capybara > cardinality > caribou > carnage > children > chocolate > CLONE > constriction > contrition > cop > corpse > cowboy > crabapple > craziness > cthulhu > Death > decepticon > deception > Decker > decoder > decoy > defenestration > democracy > dependency > despair > desperation > disease > disease > doberman > DOOM > dreams > dreams > drugs > easy > ebony > election > eloquence > emergency > eureka > excommunication > fat > fatherland > Faust > fear > fever > filth > fluff > fnord > freedom > fruit > fruit > futility > gerbils > GOD > goggles > goobers > gorilla > halibut > handmaid > happiness > hate > helplessness > hermaphrodite > heroine > hope > hysteria > icepick > identity > ignorance > importance > individuality > inkling > insurrection > intoxicant > ire > irritant > jade > jaundice > Joyce > kidney stone > kitchenette > kiwi > lathe > lattice > lawyer > lemming > liquidation > lobbyist > love > lozenge > magazine > magnesium > malfunction > marmot > marshmallow > merit > merkin > mescaline > milk > mischief > mistrust > money > monkey > monkeybutter > nationalism > nature > neuron > noise > nomenclature > nutria > OBEY > ocelot > offspring > overseer > pain > pajamas > passenger > passion > Passover > peace > penance > persimmon > petticoat > pharmacist > PhD > pitchfork > plague > Poindexter > politician > pony > presidency > prison > prophecy > Prozac > punishment > punk rock > punk > quagmire > quarantine > quartz > rabies > radish > rage > readout > reality > reject > rejection > respect > revolution > roadrunner > rule > savor > scab > scalar > Scandinavia > schadenfreude > security > sediment > self worth > sickness > silicone > slack > slander > slavery > sledgehammer > smegma > smelly socks > sorrow > space program > stamen > standardization > stench > subculture > subversion > suffering > surrender > surveillance > synthesis > television > tenant > tendril > terror > terrorism > terrorist > the impossible > the unknown > toast > topography > truism > turgid > underbrush > underling > unguent > unusual > uplink > urge > valor > variance > vaudeville > vector > vegetarian > venom > verifiability > victim > vignette > villainy > W.A.S.T.E. > wagon > waiver > warehouse > waste > waveform > whiffle ball > whorl > windmill > words > worm > worship > worship > Xanax > Xerxes > Xhosa > xylophone > yellow > yesterday > your nose > Zanzibar > zeal > zebra > zest > zinc > > > -- > Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/> > Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:38:33 -0500 > From: Dave Jones <davej(a)redhat.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <20041112003833.GB5988(a)redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote: > > > This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in > > > response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat > > > curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode. > > > > Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...): > > It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-) > > Monkeybutter indeed.. *shakes head* > > Dave > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:51:47 +0000 > From: Arturo <dalive(a)flashmail.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <41940923.60902(a)flashmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Dave Jones wrote: > > >On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote: > > > > This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in > > > > response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat > > > > curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode. > > > > > > Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...): > > > >It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-) > > > > > And what have you learnt, pray tell > > >Monkeybutter indeed.. *shakes head* > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:55:44 +0000 > From: Douglas Furlong <douglas.furlong(a)firebox.com> > Subject: Re: Professionalism > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1100253344.3313.95.camel(a)douglas-furlong.firebox.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 00:51 +0000, Arturo wrote: > > Dave Jones wrote: > > > > >On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 07:31:45PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 12:06:40AM +0000, Arturo wrote: > > > > > This is the most constructive suggestion I've seen on the list so far in > > > > > response to this issue, and so I second it.. I am however, somwhat > > > > > curious as to what offensive words popped-up in Barcode. > > > > > > > > Here's the list from FC3 (take that, Bayesian filters...): > > > > > >It's certainly an insight into that developers head 8-) > > > > > > > > And what have you learnt, pray tell > > > If nothing else it has kept me highly ammused. > > However, I am not entirely sure how "Abdomen" is an offencive word, or > unprofessional for that matter :) > > > -- > Douglas Furlong > Systems Administrator > Firebox.com > T: 0870 420 4475 F: 0870 220 2178 >

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Official Bluecurve Firefox Theme?
by Thomas J. Baker 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

I would guess that there's got to be a bluecurve theme in the works somewhere at Red Hat. Any chance we could get a preview. The FireCurveBlue theme doesn't work with firefox 1.0 and the homepage for the theme appears gone. Thanks, tjb -- ======================================================================= | Thomas Baker email: tjb(a)unh.edu | | Systems Programmer | | Research Computing Center voice: (603) 862-4490 | | University of New Hampshire fax: (603) 862-1761 | | 332 Morse Hall | | Durham, NH 03824 USA http://wintermute.sr.unh.edu/~tjb | =======================================================================

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Bluecurve and KDE
by Paul Vandenberg 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

Hi, I have noticed that the Bluecurve theme in KDE is never complete. The completeness varies from release to release, with FC1 being the closest to complete and now FC3 being one of the worst. Some examples are: I added the Home icon to the panel from the menu. In the menu it was a Bluecurve home icon. Once added to the panel, it turned into a Crystal icon. If you launch Konqueror as file manager, the folder icons are all Bluecurve in the main section. In the tree section on the left, they are Crystal. If I then select medium icons, the Bluecurve ones in the main part are changed into smaller Cystal icons. I really like Bluecurve, but I must say the mix of Bluecurve and Crystal icons is really terrible looking. Red Hat's philosophy has always been to remove functionality rather than ship broken functionality. I certainly think this applies here. I understand that resources are limited, so why not just remove Bluecurve altogether from KDE? Fedora is a GNOME based distro. As long as Bluecurve is in GNOME, that should be good enough. Thanks for listening. Paul

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Re: "Professinalism" syntax
by Wally Wilson 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 10:49 -0500, Dave Jones wrote: > On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:34:40AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > At OLS last year (I think during Erik Troan's talk on conary), whilst > taking questions, barcode kicked in. On a ~10ft projector, with the > word 'flatulence'. > > Unfortunate and somewhat embarressing perhaps, but highly amusing. > > The choice of words barcode uses do seem to be of this nature a lot > of the time, so I can sort of see the OPs point. I'm all for professionalism but I'm MORE for acting like an adult and realizing the world isn't all roses and tea. -sv -------------------------------- The real issue -- the issue that the original author failed to address -- is not about "professionalism" at all. The real issue is about personal mores and taste. Words mean things, and the Fedora package is every bit as "professional" as any other Linux distro. If someone does not like, or want something as simple as a screen saver, for whatever reasons, it is their choice and their responsibility to address the matter on each machine they administer. The same argument could be made for including games in the distro when it is used in a work environment that does not allow games. The responsibility for administering a system lies with the owner, not the software manufacturer. MS has made good money trying to remove the responsibility of system admin from its userbase, and that is not how the real world works. -wally

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