desktop August 2004

desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org

40 participants
26 discussions

RE: RFE: User-Understandable Default folders in Home
by Kyrre Ness Sjobak 16 Aug '04

16 Aug '04

> Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:00:30 -0700 > From: Michael Knepher <mknepher(a)bluethingy.com> > Subject: Re: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 6, Issue 11 Ops, sorry about that one... > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1092412830.20259.13.camel(a)lionel-hutz.darnell.group> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 12:05 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:50:09 -0400 > > > From: David Malcolm <dmalcolm(a)redhat.com> > > > > > > Currently Evolution 1.5.* stores its data (contacts, calendar, email > > > etc) below the ~/.evolution directory and in GConf, and makes various > > > assumptions about the layout of the ~/.evolution directory. Evolution > > > could be changed to follow this proposal for "local contacts" (as > > > opposed to contacts found on e.g. a shared corporate LDAP database), but > > > it'd be non-trivial. > > > > > > > What? How do i transfer my mail that is currently in my evo folder? I > > dont want to loose it! > > > > Only thing kept in .evolution before was passwords and mailservers > > The new Evolution will import all your old mail, contacts, calendar > items, etc., on first startup. > How? Just copy the evo folder into my ~? What will then happen to my evolution-folder? Just imported and then never touched again? > > Another point: Webbrowsing. Today FC uses moz - which has a nice engine > > etc. But Epiphany is still better integrated with Gnome (and no > > difference when talking HTML engine): Why not use this as the standard > > web-browser instead? > > Check out some of the newer builds of mozilla - there's a lot of gtk2 > integration going in that makes it fit in the desktop better appearance- > wise. Here's a screenshot showing mozilla using the gtk+2.4 file > chooser: > http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/images/mozilla_pango.png > That is good. Even if i can't se the big diff. Cant read that language anyway :) > > > > Only prob. as far as i can see, is that neither moz or epiphany has a > > user-friendly way to select which printer you want to use. Whic is... > > BAD! > > > > For epiphany, it should be a fairly simple matter. I'm not sure what's > involved with getting mozilla/firefox to use the new print system. > > > What new print system? CUPS? It is really un-user-friendly the way it is now. Even KDE does better than that! (joke, not flamebait). But i still cant see why we are using moz not epiphany (apart from being completely unpronounceable, and the word also un-understandable...)? Decision-makers: please answer (or somebody else who knows the truth)

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Re: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 6, Issue 11
by Kyrre Ness Sjobak 16 Aug '04

16 Aug '04

> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:50:09 -0400 > From: David Malcolm <dmalcolm(a)redhat.com> > Subject: Re: RFE: User-Understandable Default folders in Home > Directory > To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop > <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1092243010.29641.20.camel(a)cassandra.boston.redhat.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 00:57 +1000, Stewart Smith wrote: > > a bit like what OSX has, i've been thinking that a set of default > > folders (with some cool icons) could help users a bit. > > I do something like this on my own folders at home, using emblems. > > I broadly like your idea (with some caveats concerning Evolution, see > below), though in the blue-sky future perhaps we'll all be using Storage > to organise our stuff, rather than this 20th century directory-based > technology :-) > (see http://www.gnome.org/~seth/storage/ ) > Woow! Is this in for gnome 3 or something? It would certainly require a tour, but HOLY ****! Gnome starts to look better than looking glass (any chance of this being shipped with fc3?) Usefull to. And the evo integration looks nice :p > > > I've put this up at : > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129564 > > > > simply so it's kinda 1/2 officially tracked, and in the future, people > > with the same idea can (easily) find some track of discussion.... > > > > I propose adding the following to the /etc/skel for new users, with > > funky icons on the folders to help increasing the clarity of where > > things are and some hints on helping them organise things. > > > > Note that with the introduction of things like ~/Contacts/, ~/Mail/ > > and ~/Settings, this gives the user a clear picture of where things > > are, and what things are important to back up (if they so choose). > > > > Some users may just see their mail as important, and not care about > > contacts or music. Others may see Contacts, Mail, Settings and > > Documents as important and can just (easily! with nautilus-cd-burner) > > write these to CD for backup. > > > > ~/Contacts - where evolution stores contacts, with human-readable file > > names (e.g. "Firstname Lastname.vcf" or something). > > Currently Evolution 1.5.* stores its data (contacts, calendar, email > etc) below the ~/.evolution directory and in GConf, and makes various > assumptions about the layout of the ~/.evolution directory. Evolution > could be changed to follow this proposal for "local contacts" (as > opposed to contacts found on e.g. a shared corporate LDAP database), but > it'd be non-trivial. > What? How do i transfer my mail that is currently in my evo folder? I dont want to loose it! Only thing kept in .evolution before was passwords and mailservers etc... And there is another thing: Saving local mail in a non-hidden folder make shure its not deleted when somebody runs "rm -rf .*" in your homedir - such as I did to my users when upgrading from rh9 to fc1 and fc1 to fc2. I think bookmarks also should be saved that way. > A better way of accessing the contact information might be to use > evolution-data-server API; this should handle nasty details such as file > locking for you. > > If what you're really looking for is a sane way for home users to backup > this data, I think a specialised tool could be written that knows about > the various kinds of data that are stored on your computer > (configuration settings, contents of home directory etc) and can display > them in a good UI, tell you how big the backup is going to be etc, and > maybe create ISO files ready to be burned to CD for you. > > > ~/Desktop - same as it is now, the contents of the users desktop. > > ~/Documents - a suggested location for documents (and the default save > > location for applications such as OpenOffice) > > ~/Mail - where Evolution stores it's mail. > > Again, Evolution makes all kinds of assumptions about the layout of its > mail directory; it's not something I'd want to expose to end users. > Thankfully with Evo 1.5.* this is now in ~/.evolution, rather than > ~/evolution as it used to be before, so it's not quite as in-your-face > as before. > > > ~/Movies - for the kick-ass iMovie type thing that we so need. > > Yes please! > > > ~/Music - Music Player's place to put music! > Looks like the storage guys liked divX... > Good idea IMHO > > > ~/Photos - Gthumb's place to go, and the digital camera tool! > > Also a good idea IMHO > > > ~/Web Pages - ==public_html (and shared by apache, if installed). > > Nice idea. Though you'd have to have some extra control panel applets > to do things like turning apache on/off etc and punch through the > firewall, or people could get confused. > > > > > I have no real expectation taht this will make Core3 in any complete > > way, but is a good talking point and UI suggestion. This will make it > > easier for users. Another point: Webbrowsing. Today FC uses moz - which has a nice engine etc. But Epiphany is still better integrated with Gnome (and no difference when talking HTML engine): Why not use this as the standard web-browser instead? Only prob. as far as i can see, is that neither moz or epiphany has a user-friendly way to select which printer you want to use. Whic is... BAD!

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SILC library inclusion?
by Warren Togami 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

http://www.silcnet.org The upstream gaim developers have requested that we include the SILC libraries in FC3. This would allow our gaim package to enable the final missing protocol SILC. SILC is kind of like IRC, except using strong encryption and authentication. The gaim developers have exhibited a strong commitment to Fedora development and it would be great if we could support their request. Would it be possible to add this library to FC3? Warren Togami wtogami(a)redhat.com

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little demo of OpenOffice.org 1.9m49 using gnomeprintui dialog
by Caolán McNamara 12 Aug '04

12 Aug '04

At http://people.redhat.com/caolanm/gnomeprintui.bin I've uploaded a self extracting installer (not rpm) of OpenOffice.org 1.9m49 which I've hacked to use gnomeprintui for the print dialog, should work fine for normal functionality and print to pdf/file. Still needs a bit more love, but might be of interest. C.

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RFE: User-Understandable Default folders in Home Directory
by Stewart Smith 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

a bit like what OSX has, i've been thinking that a set of default folders (with some cool icons) could help users a bit. I've put this up at : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129564 simply so it's kinda 1/2 officially tracked, and in the future, people with the same idea can (easily) find some track of discussion.... I propose adding the following to the /etc/skel for new users, with funky icons on the folders to help increasing the clarity of where things are and some hints on helping them organise things. Note that with the introduction of things like ~/Contacts/, ~/Mail/ and ~/Settings, this gives the user a clear picture of where things are, and what things are important to back up (if they so choose). Some users may just see their mail as important, and not care about contacts or music. Others may see Contacts, Mail, Settings and Documents as important and can just (easily! with nautilus-cd-burner) write these to CD for backup. ~/Contacts - where evolution stores contacts, with human-readable file names (e.g. "Firstname Lastname.vcf" or something). ~/Desktop - same as it is now, the contents of the users desktop. ~/Documents - a suggested location for documents (and the default save location for applications such as OpenOffice) ~/Mail - where Evolution stores it's mail. ~/Movies - for the kick-ass iMovie type thing that we so need. ~/Music - Music Player's place to put music! ~/Photos - Gthumb's place to go, and the digital camera tool! ~/Web Pages - ==public_html (and shared by apache, if installed). I have no real expectation taht this will make Core3 in any complete way, but is a good talking point and UI suggestion. This will make it easier for users. -- Stewart Smith (stewart(a)flamingspork.com) http://www.flamingspork.com/

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Will Cairo be packaged for FC3 ?
by Yusuf Goolamabbas 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

Hi, Wanted to ask the following questions a) Will there be a package of a cairo snapshot for FC3 ? b) Will the Mozilla packaged in FC3 render through Pango or will it just be XFT based ?

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RE: RFE: User-Understandable Default folders in Home Directory
by Kyrre Ness Sjobak 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

Sounds like a great idea! Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:57:48 +1000 From: Stewart Smith <stewart(a)flamingspork.com> Subject: RFE: User-Understandable Default folders in Home Directory To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> Message-ID: <1092149868.3858.5.camel@kennedy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" a bit like what OSX has, i've been thinking that a set of default folders (with some cool icons) could help users a bit. I've put this up at : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=129564 simply so it's kinda 1/2 officially tracked, and in the future, people with the same idea can (easily) find some track of discussion.... I propose adding the following to the /etc/skel for new users, with funky icons on the folders to help increasing the clarity of where things are and some hints on helping them organise things. Note that with the introduction of things like ~/Contacts/, ~/Mail/ and ~/Settings, this gives the user a clear picture of where things are, and what things are important to back up (if they so choose). Some users may just see their mail as important, and not care about contacts or music. Others may see Contacts, Mail, Settings and Documents as important and can just (easily! with nautilus-cd-burner) write these to CD for backup. >> Just make that damn app work PERFECT first. I cant burn iso's with it. It just refuses to do anything. But integrating K3B better with gnome (and def. install if cd-burner is detected) would be great. (yeah i know its really a KDE app. But who does really care?) ~/Contacts - where evolution stores contacts, with human-readable file names (e.g. "Firstname Lastname.vcf" or something). ~/Desktop - same as it is now, the contents of the users desktop. ~/Documents - a suggested location for documents (and the default save location for applications such as OpenOffice) ~/Mail - where Evolution stores it's mail. >> This is called evolution today. But renaming it wouldn't be a to bad idea - but it can create incompitability. ~/Movies - for the kick-ass iMovie type thing that we so need. ~/Music - Music Player's place to put music! ~/Photos - Gthumb's place to go, and the digital camera tool! ~/Web Pages - ==public_html (and shared by apache, if installed). >> ~/Settings - would there be some enviroment variable (etc) most progs will honor, which would make progs put their ".blah" - files there - instead of the (unorganized) way its now - when everything is just dumped at the ~/ ? It would make using apps that don't filter out such files (read: JAVA file uploaders etc) easyer, as with sharing home dirs with EvilOS (Windows) >> Isn't there something like mini-icons on files/folders for Gnome? Could this be integrated with KDE as well? And somhow stored (in some hidden file inside the dir) so that it would be honored when sharing to other machines that don't mount as ~/ over ex. NFS? Same goes to gthumb: Its really anoying having to wait for it to recreate the thumbs when i want to show the family the digital holyday pics on my laptop, over "11" mbps WLAN, in a dir mounted over NFS. Especially when i just did on my main machine. What about creating something like Thumbs.db, which are read by nautilus and gtumb (etc.) - but make it possible to turn the feature off. I have no real expectation taht this will make Core3 in any complete way, but is a good talking point and UI suggestion. This will make it easier for users. >> Why not? Its not like its hard to implement... -- Stewart Smith (stewart(a)flamingspork.com) http://www.flamingspork.com/ BTW. what happened to the D-bus mail? would somebody please remail it? I use diggest mode and i'm thinking that it was automagically deleted. (or at least "scrubbed" - there was no body...

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New GDM Theme?
by seth vidal 11 Aug '04

11 Aug '04

Would this GDM theme be worth considering for FC3. It's different but very attractive, I think. http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=15112 -sv

3 2

Gnome 2.7 on Fedora
by Tom McLaughlin 10 Aug '04

10 Aug '04

Hi, I'm looking to install Fedora on a machine of mine for the purpose of running Gnome 2.7. I'm regularly a FreeBSD user where I'm running Gnome 2.7 right now and I'd like to have a linux machine as a basis of comparison to track down bugs. I'd like to know if there are any reliable rpm repositories for Gnome 2.7 out there? My interest is in tracking the state of Gnome 2.7 instead of Gnome on Fedora. That means the recent updates to Gnome for RC 3 don't really help me. I'd like to have as vanilla an install of Gnome as possible and be able to keep both machines' Gnome installs relatively in sync with one another. I know there are garnome and jhbuild but this is a slow machine so I don't feel like building from source. I have found this repo so far: http://people.ecsc.co.uk/~matt/downloads/ I'm just wondering if there are any other repositories out there or if anyone has any experience with using rpms from here. If anyone can point me in a possible direction that would be great. Thanks. Tom

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time for session D-BUS?
by Colin Walters 09 Aug '04

09 Aug '04

Hi, Since we're doing stuff now that requires a session D-Bus, shouldn't we patch the X init scripts to actually execute it? Or were we thinking of an approach with gnome-session executing it? Attached is a patch to implement in /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession. We also need to patch gdm to depend on dbus-x11.

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desktop August 2004