desktop July 2020

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18 participants
17 discussions

Fedora Workstation WG minutes, 2020-07-28
by Chris Murphy 28 Jul '20

28 Jul '20

============================================== #fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2020-07-28) ============================================== Meeting started by cmurf at 01:51:09 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-29/workstation.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Rollcall (cmurf, 01:51:37) * present wg members: cmurf, neal, jens, mcatanzaro, aday, otaylor, mclasen, kalev, langon (cmurf, 01:51:39) * regrets wg members: (cmurf, 01:51:41) * present guests: salimma, cschalle, james (cmurf, 01:51:43) * Approve minutes from 21 July (cmurf, 01:51:45) * LINK: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-07-22-… (cmurf, 01:51:47) * AGREED: No objections - approved (cmurf, 01:51:49) * Announcements (cmurf, 01:51:51) * LINK: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Versioning/#_vers… (cmurf, 01:51:59) * Follow-ups & Status reports (cmurf, 01:52:01) * Chris: has started doing weekly btrfs email status updates - to @desktop. Will also go to @devel too. (cmurf, 01:52:03) * Allan: filtered view of Flathub rumbles on. Neal: there's a new PR here - https://pagure.io/fesco/fesco-docs/pull-request/34 (cmurf, 01:52:05) * General Topics (cmurf, 01:52:11) * Automatically install the OpenH264 codecs (cmurf, 01:52:13) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84 (cmurf, 01:52:15) * Kalev fixed the issue in dist-git months ago, but it needs work from releng to build and pass to Cisco (cmurf, 01:52:17) * Flatpak preferred over native (rpm) software in GNOME Software (cmurf, 01:52:19) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/151 (cmurf, 01:52:21) * Michael: issues with Fedora Flatpaks - they're not localised. Kalev has been working on that. Not too concerned if the fix goes out quickly. (cmurf, 01:52:23) * short term: once MBS is working, locale issues will be fixed. (cmurf, 01:53:01) * NVIDIA driver and UEFI secure boot (cmurf, 01:53:03) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/155 (cmurf, 01:53:05) * General discussion, nothing decided yet. (cmurf, 01:53:07) Meeting ended at 01:53:12 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * cmurf (50) * zodbot (7) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Btrfs by default status updates, 2020-07-26
by Chris Murphy 27 Jul '20

27 Jul '20

Idea floated on #fedora-workstation is to have a weekly status report by email. The idea is to make sure that everyone is kept in the loop, while at the same time making sure Btrfs isn't bumping other priorities off the meeting agenda. - What has and hasn't happened since the last update: what has made progress, what might be stalled. - Any particularly nasty bug reports - Urgent priority questions/concerns about these reports should be brought up in the "Follow-ups & Status reports" portion of weekly WG meetings - Any normal questions/concerns/requests for more details should be brought up in Open Floor, or respond to the report email ------- (This first update is big. Subsequent updates should be smaller.) Changes: + Anaconda defaults to Btrfs for automatic partitioning for all desktop installation media + libvirtd patches have landed that will set 'nodatacow' (chattr +C) on VM image containing directories when on Btrfs, by default: virt-manager, GNOME Boxes, Cockpit, et al, will benefit from this directly; minimally tested OK, needs some further testing + Numerous btrfs kernel patches, related to Fedora concerns and requests have landed on upstream linux-btrfs@, including new 'rescue=all' mount option to better tolerate read-only mount despite file system damage + anaconda fix for Silverblue on Btrfs, set "rootflags" boot parameter so startup succeeds + various compose related fixes for non-ISO images; PR submitted, not yet merged into production (consequence is, these Rawhide images are not being created right now for armhfp: Workstation, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, MATE, Sugar) + btrfs driver is now built-in to the kernel, rather than as a module + Red Hat CKI (Continuous Kernel Integration) have added btrfs to their regular xfstests and will report failures upstream Communication: + Fedora Magazine article(s) are in the idea and specification phase. https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/162 https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/btrfs-by-default/22020 https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/asamalik-fedora-magazine/us/216?kan… Documentation: + Draft material available for review, organization and content development in-progress. https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/158 + Clarification on what degree effort should be spent on updating upstream wiki so it doesn't conflict with Fedora reality; versus Fedora specific content focus. Noteworthy bugs: + Btrfs corruption tracked down to bad RAM (confirmed with memtest86+); will result in improvements to 'btrfs check --repair' to better handle this case; does also expose the difficulty with Btrfs only stating the facts rather than pointing the finger at the cause. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1857996 + Btrfs tracking bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851166 -- Chris Murphy

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[Fedocal] Reminder meeting : Workstation WG
by catanzaro＠fedoraproject.org 27 Jul '20

27 Jul '20

Dear all, You are kindly invited to the meeting: Workstation WG on 2020-07-28 from 09:30:00 to 10:30:00 US/Eastern At https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ The meeting will be about: Regular meeting for the Workstation Working Group Current Topics: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting Etherpad: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-workstation-wg More information available at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation Source: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9652/

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2020-07-28 MEETING AGENDA
by Chris Murphy 26 Jul '20

26 Jul '20

Workstation Working Group Meeting Date and Time: 2020-07-28 9:30 am ET 13:30 UTC Location: https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ https://www.bluejeans.com/numbers == Agenda == Approval of 21 Jul minutes https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-07-22-… Announcements Follow-ups & Status reports Topics Automatically install the OpenH264 codecs https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84 Flatpak preferred over native (rpm) software in GNOME Software https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/151 NVIDIA driver and UEFI secure boot https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/155 Open Floor -- Chris Murphy

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Multiple Fedora Desktop edition
by Jóhann B. Guðmundsson 23 Jul '20

23 Jul '20

Hi I have noticed we are installing bunch of "enterprise" tools ( which some might view as bloatware ) with the default Fedora Desktop which leaves whole bunch of service enable which delay boot and eat up cpu/memory and space thus give the end user an overall negative experience on her or his laptop hence I have been wondering if there have been any discussion to provide different "edition" of the Fedora Desktop in similar manner like Windows does [1] as in "Windows 10 Home" which mostly comes pre-installed on the laptops people buy ( stripped down windows no enterprise features ) windows 10 Pro which is mostly used in Office environments where joining a Windows Server domain is required and Windows 10 Enterprise, which is Windows 10 Pro + some enterprise related tools and apps etc. With Fedora "Home" edition the installer could be simplified drastically and the image size refused to bare minimum sd-boot+ systemd + Gnome ( things like atd chrony along with whole bunch of other advanced storage related things ) skipped and end users not allow to custom configure anything other than their language and keyboard ( targeted at noobs ) while for example "Fedora Pro" would allow for custom partitioning filesystem selections etc and include additional tools, Fedora Developer edition which could include all the developer tools, Fedora Enterprise ( sssd,realmd etc ) so fourth and so on. JBG 1. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsforbusiness/compare

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Re: Multiple Fedora Desktop edition
by Jóhann B. Guðmundsson 23 Jul '20

23 Jul '20

On 23.7.2020 19:20, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > On 23.7.2020 16:32, Michael Catanzaro wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:32 am, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson >> <johannbg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I would say for a "Fedora Home" edition the only application I would >>> remove would be boxee and virtualization altogether >> >> That is worth considering. I think we want to continue promoting >> Boxes as our recommended virtualization solution regardless, but it's >> an open question whether it ought to be part of the default experience. >> >>> and replace it with a password manager if Gnome has one. >> >> I reported >> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/-/issues/231 to >> discuss this a while back. It's a tricky question. I think it'd be >> good to promote our own password manager, but nowadays users seem to >> prefer services that offer sync between multiple devices. > > > I would say it's better to give them something rather then nothing. > > >> >> >>> Component wise anything related to enterprise user management and >>> login, enterprise storage local and remote including clients. >> >> kerberos, sssd, etc. seem to mostly stay out of the way, and it's >> nice to have them working for users who need them, right? Also: >> kerberos is exposed via Online Accounts in System Settings. I think >> of these like VPN plugins: most users will never use them, but >> they're small and don't hurt anything and to the extent they're >> integrated into System Settings, having them installed by default is >> good. Arguably the problem is not that they are installed but enabled and started when they are not being used which negatively affects the overall experience and I personally am more inline with not installing anything unless it's actually going to be used by the end users. Basically Gnome would be shipped bare bone with nothing more than icons which trigger install ( flatpak ) of the application when the end users plans on use it for the first time.( at that point the end user is indicating that he wants to use that application ). JBG

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Fedora Workstation WG minutes, 2020-07-21
by Chris Murphy 21 Jul '20

21 Jul '20

============================================== #fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2020-07-21) ============================================== Meeting started by cmurf at 02:54:38 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-22/workstation.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Rollcall (cmurf, 02:54:59) * present wg members: cmurf, mcatanzaro, petersen, kalev, neal, aday, mclasen, otaylor, langdon (late) (cmurf, 02:55:01) * regrets wg members: tpopela (cmurf, 02:55:03) * present guests: james (cmurf, 02:55:05) * Approve 14 Jul minutes (cmurf, 02:55:07) * LINK: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-07-15-… (cmurf, 02:55:09) * AGREED: no objections (cmurf, 02:55:11) * Announcements (cmurf, 02:55:13) * New GNOME releases on the way, time to organize GNOME test days prior to freeze (25 Aug) (cmurf, 02:55:25) * Follow-ups & Status reports (cmurf, 02:55:27) * Sub-item of #151 - Fedora flatpaks aren't localised (cmurf, 02:55:29) * Infrastructure conceptually worked out, some infrastructure issues might delay Flatpak rebuilds. (cmurf, 02:55:33) * Btrfs issue tracking (cmurf, 02:55:35) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=btrfs (cmurf, 02:55:37) * ACTION: Assign Owen to this issue (cmurf, 02:55:41) * Filtered Flathub view (cmurf, 02:55:45) * New topics (cmurf, 02:55:49) * Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps (cmurf, 02:55:51) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/125 (cmurf, 02:55:53) * ACTION: the product of this discussion will be split out into separate issues (cmurf, 02:55:57) * New issue: Remove Photos and Rhythmbox from the default apps (cmurf, 02:55:59) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/164 (cmurf, 02:56:01) * New issue: Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF (cmurf, 02:56:03) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165 (cmurf, 02:56:05) * New issue: Swap out Cheese for a more generic Camera app (cmurf, 02:56:07) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/166 (cmurf, 02:56:09) * Remove Archive Manager from the default app set (cmurf, 02:56:11) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/167 (cmurf, 02:56:13) * Split out video thumbnailing into a subpackage (cmurf, 02:56:15) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/168 (cmurf, 02:56:17) * Automatically install the OpenH264 codecs (cmurf, 02:56:19) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84 (cmurf, 02:56:21) * AGREED: Deferred (cmurf, 02:56:23) * Flatpak preferred over native (rpm) software in GNOME Software (cmurf, 02:56:25) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/151 (cmurf, 02:56:27) * AGREED: Deferred (cmurf, 02:56:29) Meeting ended at 02:56:41 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Assign Owen to this issue * the product of this discussion will be split out into separate issues Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * Assign Owen to this issue * the product of this discussion will be split out into separate issues People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * cmurf (50) * zodbot (7) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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2020-07-21 MEETING AGENDA
by Chris Murphy 21 Jul '20

21 Jul '20

Workstation Working Group Meeting Date and Time: 2020-07-21 9:30 am ET 13:30 UTC Location: https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ https://www.bluejeans.com/numbers == Agenda == Approval of 14 Jul minutes https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-07-15-… Announcements Follow-ups & Status reports Topics Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/125 Automatically install the OpenH264 codecs https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84 Flatpak preferred over native (rpm) software in GNOME Software https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/151 -- Chris Murphy

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[Fedocal] Reminder meeting : Workstation WG
by catanzaro＠fedoraproject.org 20 Jul '20

20 Jul '20

Dear all, You are kindly invited to the meeting: Workstation WG on 2020-07-21 from 09:30:00 to 10:30:00 US/Eastern At https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ The meeting will be about: Regular meeting for the Workstation Working Group Current Topics: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting Etherpad: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-workstation-wg More information available at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation Source: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9652/

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Fedora Workstation WG minutes, 14 Jul
by Chris Murphy 14 Jul '20

14 Jul '20

============================================== #fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2020-07-14) ============================================== Meeting started by cmurf at 01:39:47 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-15/workstation.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Rollcall (cmurf, 01:40:09) * present wg members: cmurf, Neal, aday, mclasen, mcatanzaro, petersen, otaylor, langdon, tpopela (cmurf, 01:40:11) * regrets wg members: kalev (cmurf, 01:40:13) * present guests: Davide Cavalca, Alex, salimma, feborges, Josef (cmurf, 01:40:15) * Approve minutes for 7 Jun meeting (cmurf, 01:40:17) * LINK: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-07-08/workstation.2… (cmurf, 01:40:19) * AGREED: no objections (cmurf, 01:40:21) * Announcements (cmurf, 01:40:23) * Neal: has proposed a btrfs talk for flock (cmurf, 01:40:25) * : Abrt retrace server is down for several weeks, affects local backtraces (cmurf, 01:40:29) * ACTION: Michael to create a workstation issue (cmurf, 01:40:31) * Davide: start of a btrfs getting started guide (cmurf, 01:40:33) * Follow-ups & Status reports (cmurf, 01:40:37) * Nano by default (cmurf, 01:40:39) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/103 (cmurf, 01:40:41) * F33 change approved by FESCo. What are the next steps? (cmurf, 01:40:43) * ACTION: Neal to implement the change (cmurf, 01:40:45) * Swap on zram (cmurf, 01:40:47) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/127 (cmurf, 01:40:49) * F33 change approved by FESCo and we voted in favour. Changes on-track. (cmurf, 01:40:51) * general topics (cmurf, 01:40:57) * btrfs by default (cmurf, 01:40:59) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/153 (cmurf, 01:41:01) * Davide and Neal have been working on image build infra with btrfs subvolumes (cmurf, 01:41:03) * Test day happened last week (cmurf, 01:41:05) * LINK: https://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/88 (cmurf, 01:41:07) * AGREED: Plan is to proceed with btrfs by identifying potential issues/blockers and tracking them individually, rather than have a go/no go vote. No objections. (cmurf, 01:42:05) * default partitioning: solving the competition for free space (cmurf, 01:42:07) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/152 (cmurf, 01:42:09) * AGREED: Deferred. (cmurf, 01:42:11) * Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps (cmurf, 01:42:13) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/125 (cmurf, 01:42:15) * AGREED: Deferred. (cmurf, 01:42:17) Meeting ended at 01:42:30 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Michael to create a workstation issue * Neal to implement the change Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * Michael to create a workstation issue * Neal to implement the change People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * cmurf (69) * zodbot (7) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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