Hi,
Is the desktop team meeting on a weekly basis like it used to?
Rahul
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 12:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi,
Is the desktop team meeting on a weekly basis like it used to?
No, there's no weekly meetings anymore; we had a weekly meeting for a while but it wasn't very useful. Or at least that's my view. I'd say just use the #fedora-desktop IRC channel on GimpNet, it's where all the desktop related stuff happens.
David
David Zeuthen wrote:
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 12:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi,
Is the desktop team meeting on a weekly basis like it used to?
No, there's no weekly meetings anymore; we had a weekly meeting for a while but it wasn't very useful. Or at least that's my view. I'd say just use the #fedora-desktop IRC channel on GimpNet, it's where all the desktop related stuff happens.
Given that Fedora desktop specific discussions do get taken and not much of it in this list, the benefit of having a designated time for meeting on irc and discussing plans is to allow people to participate more. Even if you do have to hang around on a IRC channel all day, you wouldn't be able to follow the discussions there 24/7.
It is probably more convenient to sit in a room and talk if everyone is in the same place but forcing yourself to do irc instead gives the rest of the interested folks a better understanding even if they are not involved on a regular basis.
Rahul
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 04:41 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
David Zeuthen wrote:
On Mon, 2008-09-22 at 12:11 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi,
Is the desktop team meeting on a weekly basis like it used to?
No, there's no weekly meetings anymore; we had a weekly meeting for a while but it wasn't very useful. Or at least that's my view. I'd say just use the #fedora-desktop IRC channel on GimpNet, it's where all the desktop related stuff happens.
Given that Fedora desktop specific discussions do get taken and not much of it in this list, the benefit of having a designated time for meeting on irc and discussing plans is to allow people to participate more. Even if you do have to hang around on a IRC channel all day, you wouldn't be able to follow the discussions there 24/7.
It is probably more convenient to sit in a room and talk if everyone is in the same place but forcing yourself to do irc instead gives the rest of the interested folks a better understanding even if they are not involved on a regular basis.
You apparently didn't read what David said: There's no need to force any of us to use irc, we're pretty much available 24/7 in #fedora-desktop on GimpNet.
Matthias Clasen wrote:
You apparently didn't read what David said: There's no need to force any of us to use irc, we're pretty much available 24/7 in #fedora-desktop on GimpNet.
This availability helps for casual discussions but it is not possible for anybody to follow the discussions that happen there 24/7. Having a predesignated particular time on regular intervals to make decisions means that others can hope to participate more when the conversations happen. It is the difference between hallway conversations and team meetings. This worked out very well other SIG's.
Also #fedora-desktop is the only irc channel that is in gimpnet instead of freenode. It would be better to move to freenode like all the other channels.
Rahul
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 05:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
This availability helps for casual discussions but it is not possible for anybody to follow the discussions that happen there 24/7.
Nice try trying to imply that the conversations on #fedora-desktop "casual talk". They're not.
Having a predesignated particular time on regular intervals to make decisions means that others can hope to participate more when the conversations happen. It is the difference between hallway conversations and team meetings. This worked out very well other SIG's.
I repeat: It's my experience, and I believe others as well, that just having the IRC channel and a low-traffic list like fedora-desktop-list works just fine. Again, I don't think any weekly meeting would be useful; if people want to get involved (and I'd encourage that), it's very easy: use this mailing list or use the IRC channel.
I'm sorry if that makes it complicated for people who only wants to "participate" in "decision making" at some weekly meeting without actually doing any work or otherwise get involved. But it's probably better that way.
Also #fedora-desktop is the only irc channel that is in gimpnet instead of freenode.
I think the question of why #fedora-desktop is on gimpnet has come up before so I'll try to repeat what I think the reason was: it's more important to stay close to the upstream channels; it does happen, rather frequently in fact, that people from other GNOME distros pop into #fedora-desktop to ask questions or that people working on Fedora desktop summon people to #fedora-desktop. We'd lose part of that synergy if we were on freenode.
(Of course, needless to point out, we're also currently losing out on making it harder for Fedora non-GNOME people to participate on #fedora-desktop. However, that's a trade-off I'm comfortable with given we ask people to get involved upstream and not downstream.)
It would be better to move to freenode like all the other channels.
Nice try: you almost trick the reader into believing the only channels worth anything are on Freenode and use that as the reason for moving #fedora-desktop to freenode. There's a nice Latin term for this kind of fallacy, try looking it up!
Good luck, David
David Zeuthen wrote:
On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 05:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
This availability helps for casual discussions but it is not possible for anybody to follow the discussions that happen there 24/7.
Nice try trying to imply that the conversations on #fedora-desktop "casual talk". They're not.
The distinction I am making is in between organized meeting vs impromptu (which i referred to as casual) conversations that invariably happen in irc channels.
I'm sorry if that makes it complicated for people who only wants to "participate" in "decision making" at some weekly meeting without actually doing any work or otherwise get involved. But it's probably better that way.
There is a difference betweeen active participants who make decisions and others who merely want to be informed. Weekly meetings help more of the latter. When people feel more informed, a smaller percentage of that would become more active participants over time or atleast that is what I have seen happen in other SIG's.
It would be better to move to freenode like all the other channels.
Nice try: you almost trick the reader into believing the only channels worth anything are on Freenode and use that as the reason for moving #fedora-desktop to freenode. There's a nice Latin term for this kind of fallacy, try looking it up!
Good luck,
Nothing of that sort. All the Fedora channels except for #fedora-desktop are in Freenode. That statement of fact makes no judgement about the value of other irc servers whatsoever. If have already considered the balance between the disconnect of Fedora channels vs closer interactions with upstream and want to stick with your decisions, be my guest.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Is the desktop team meeting on a weekly basis like it used to?
Even better. We now have team meetings 5 days a week (Monday - Friday, with some exceptions for holidays) from 10am to midnight, US Eastern time. Like all meetings, sometimes we adjourn early, and sometimes we run late.
Given that Fedora desktop specific discussions do get taken and not much of it in this list, the benefit of having a designated time for meeting on irc and discussing plans is to allow people to participate more. Even if you do have to hang around on a IRC channel all day, you wouldn't be able to follow the discussions there 24/7.
Even if we do have a time, we are going to cut out a lot of people who are sleeping during the 1 hour period, or are at work and are unable to get on IRC. This was the case when we had our weekly meetings: we were always getting complaints from people who wished to participate but could not make our meeting times, no matter when we scheduled it. We feel the longer and more frequent meeting time allows more people to join in. Still, if there are people who are unable to make it to our meetings, we invite them to use our mailing list.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Christopher Aillon -
David Zeuthen -
Matthias Clasen -
Rahul Sundaram