Am Mittwoch, den 14.04.2010, 10:25 +0200 schrieb Jaroslav Reznik:
Hi Matthias. We were discussing polkit agent reorganization @ our kde sig meeting - cwickert joined us too [1]. Could you clarify autostart of the agent? I agree it should be task for desktop as it's now core component and I don't see need for users to change this configuration.
I do. Xfce for example has no agent ATM, so users should be free to choose ether polkit-gnome or lxpolkit. This could be easily done it we allowed installing them individually. The choice which one is started could be easily done graphically in the session properties.
If I understood Matthias correctly he wants the desktop to autostart the agent and have it hardcoded somewhere. IMHO this is a step in the wrong direction as it takes the user the freedom to decide what he wants to use.
But other question is - what about desktops without own polkit or even standalone wms? Another point is autostart desktop file - if the agent is going to be started by autostart desktop file, this autostart belongs to agent and should be distributed together in the agent package.
+1
Could be ShowOnlyIn option considered as the correct way to achieve no autostarting in other desktops?
IMO yes. And IMO we still need packages that use polkit require PolicyKit-authentication-agent because otherwise a user of say openbox or icewm wont get a working package.
Regards, Christoph
On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 10:47 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 14.04.2010, 10:25 +0200 schrieb Jaroslav Reznik:
Hi Matthias. We were discussing polkit agent reorganization @ our kde sig meeting - cwickert joined us too [1]. Could you clarify autostart of the agent? I agree it should be task for desktop as it's now core component and I don't see need for users to change this configuration.
I do. Xfce for example has no agent ATM, so users should be free to choose ether polkit-gnome or lxpolkit. This could be easily done it we allowed installing them individually. The choice which one is started could be easily done graphically in the session properties.
If I understood Matthias correctly he wants the desktop to autostart the agent and have it hardcoded somewhere. IMHO this is a step in the wrong direction as it takes the user the freedom to decide what he wants to use.
Sorry for the late response, I was away from mail for a few days.
So, I don't think I said 'hardcoded'. I don't care how hard or soft you code it. The point is that it should be the responsibility of the desktop environment to ensure that a polkit agent is available, not the responsibility of individual apps or of polkit itself.
For GNOME, I'll simply move the polkit-gnome-authentication-agent autostart file from polkit-gnome to gnome-session. (gdm already ships its own autostart file for the login session).
But other question is - what about desktops without own polkit or even standalone wms? Another point is autostart desktop file - if the agent is going to be started by autostart desktop file, this autostart belongs to agent and should be distributed together in the agent package.
+1
No. Again, the responsibility for starting the agent lies with the desktop, not with polkit. I frankly don't care if you 'build your own desktop'. In that case, your favourite polkit agent is just one more thing to throw in your .Xclients file.
Am Samstag, den 17.04.2010, 22:17 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
So, I don't think I said 'hardcoded'. I don't care how hard or soft you code it. The point is that it should be the responsibility of the desktop environment to ensure that a polkit agent is available, not the responsibility of individual apps or of polkit itself.
How do you want to cover the cases where users have no desktop environment installed then?
For GNOME, I'll simply move the polkit-gnome-authentication-agent autostart file from polkit-gnome to gnome-session.
This means that other desktops can no longer make use of polkit-gnome and user or have to provide their own desktop file. This means users can no longer choose which agent to start. What's so bad about choice? Xfce users might want to choose wheter to use lxpolkit or polkit-gnome.
I still don't understand what the benefit of moving the desktop file is. 90% of all users will have both packages installed, the one that provides the agent and the one that provides the autostart file. This means 90% will not notice a difference, but for the remaining 5%, things will likely break.
From a packaging POV the autostart file clearly belongs to the
application it starts just as a normal desktop file belongs to a package.
No. Again, the responsibility for starting the agent lies with the desktop, not with polkit. I frankly don't care if you 'build your own desktop'. In that case, your favourite polkit agent is just one more thing to throw in your .Xclients file.
IMHO things like openbox, fluxbox or icewm should be supported without having to configure anything in .Xclients. They all work nicely with autostart, IMHO there is no reason to break this.
Regards, Christoph
On Sun, 2010-04-18 at 10:08 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
For GNOME, I'll simply move the polkit-gnome-authentication-agent autostart file from polkit-gnome to gnome-session.
This means that other desktops can no longer make use of polkit-gnome and user or have to provide their own desktop file. This means users can no longer choose which agent to start. What's so bad about choice? Xfce users might want to choose wheter to use lxpolkit or polkit-gnome.
It doesn't mean any of that. If you want to use polkit-gnome-authentication agent, simply start it in your session, by whatever mechanism you prefer. The autostart file is just an implementation detail. I might just as well make gnome-session just launch it directly.
From a packaging POV the autostart file clearly belongs to the
application it starts just as a normal desktop file belongs to a package.
The authentication agent is not an application. It is part of the desktop infrastructure.
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Christoph Wickert -
Matthias Clasen