httpd I can agree with, but I think sshd should stay. Sometimes getting remote access through a LiveCD is useful.

Mark Bidewell

On 12/17/07, Ivan Quirino ivanquirino1928@gmail.com wrote:

It's really needed to improve the liveCD. Remove some services, like sshd and httpd, these things just take space in the liveCD. Put OpenOffice.orgint the CD is a great deal. There should be no login screen in the liveCD. Some content would be nice too. Make the fedora liveCD like the ubuntu liveCD is not a bad idea. Ubuntu doesnt have server services, has openoffice.org, and auto-login in the liveCD. And Anaconda should ask if you want to restart or continue with the liveCD

On Dec 17, 2007 1:52 AM, Matthias Clasen < mclasen@redhat.com> wrote:

...

Jonathan tried to kick off this discussion earlier, with some success. I think we should revive the desktop SIG and start to work out some concrete goals for what we want to improve in the desktop spin for F9.

Here are some things that we might want to discuss:

• menus

• switch from "generic name" style to "name - generic name" ?
• "too much" - what to get rid of in the menus, and how

• login screen

• can we make the special live-cd situation more intuitive ?

• bootup

• should we look at the nm dispatcher work by jon nettleton ?

• content

• people have proposed to add some free content to the cd

• anything else people want to see improved

Matthias

-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list

-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list

On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 12:06 -0300, Ivan Quirino wrote:

but sshd is the daemon, the server. what should stay is the client. the liveCD should be the 'client' spin.

Both should stay. Ssh/sftp setup with Avahi makes a nice secure way to point and click transfer files around a network.

That does remind me that would should make sure to have nss-mdns setup and running properly, as well as proper firewall rules.

I don't have my list handy right now, but if things are going to get rolling I will get it all together.

Jon

On Dec 17, 2007 12:01 PM, Mark Bidewelli mark.bidewell@alumni.clemson.edu wrote: httpd I can agree with, but I think sshd should stay. Sometimes getting remote access through a LiveCD is useful.

    Mark Bidewell



    On 12/17/07, Ivan Quirino <ivanquirino1928@gmail.com> wrote: 
            It's really needed to improve the liveCD. Remove some
            services, like sshd and httpd, these things just take
            space in the liveCD. Put OpenOffice.org int the CD is
            a great deal. There should be no login screen in the
            liveCD. Some content would be nice too. Make the
            fedora liveCD like the ubuntu liveCD is not a bad
            idea. Ubuntu doesnt have server services, has
            openoffice.org, and auto-login in the liveCD. And
            Anaconda should ask if you want to restart or continue
            with the liveCD 


            On Dec 17, 2007 1:52 AM, Matthias Clasen <
            mclasen@redhat.com> wrote:
                    Jonathan tried to kick off this discussion
                    earlier, with some success. 
                    I think we should revive the desktop SIG and
                    start to work out some 
                    concrete goals for what we want to improve in
                    the desktop spin for F9.


                    Here are some things that we might want to
                    discuss:

                    - menus 
                     + switch from "generic name" style to "name -
                    generic name" ? 
                     + "too much" - what to get rid of in the
                    menus, and how

                    - login screen
                     + can we make the special live-cd situation
                    more intuitive ? 

                    - bootup
                     + should we look at the nm dispatcher work by
                    jon nettleton ? 

                    - content
                     + people have proposed to add some free
                    content to the cd

                    - anything else people want to see improved


                    Matthias

                    --
                    Fedora-desktop-list mailing list
                    Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com
                    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list



            --
            Fedora-desktop-list mailing list
            Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com
            https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list



    --
    Fedora-desktop-list mailing list
    Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com
    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list

-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list

On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 20:08 +0100, Jon Nettleton wrote:

That does remind me that would should make sure to have nss-mdns setup and running properly, as well as proper firewall rules.

Yes. Lennart told me that he knows what he needs to do now to make nss-mdns generally acceptable, after talking to Uli at foss.in.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 15:38 +0000, Kevin Kofler wrote:

Matthias Clasen <mclasen <at> redhat.com> writes:

...

• switch from "generic name" style to "name - generic name" ?

Yes, please! :-)

Ideally that'd be implemented by using both the Name and GenericName fields of

++

the .desktop file, but even putting "name - generic name" into Name would be a huge improvement over having just the generic name there (and require no changes to GNOME, whereas GenericName is currently not supported by GNOME).

That'd just generate a huge mess once tools (panel etc.) could cope with Name + GenericName, wouldn't it? If all else fails, allow "Name=<name> - <genericname>" only if GenericName is empty.

...

• "too much" - what to get rid of in the menus, and how

IMHO all GUI apps really need to be in the menus. How else are users supposed to find them?

In principle yes, but if we talk about live media we can resort to: what's not on the media isn't in the menu either.

Nils

Valent Turkovic wrote:

Matthias Clasen wrote:

...

Jonathan tried to kick off this discussion earlier, with some success. I think we should revive the desktop SIG and start to work out some concrete goals for what we want to improve in the desktop spin for F9.

Here are some things that we might want to discuss:

• menus
  • switch from "generic name" style to "name - generic name" ? +

"too much" - what to get rid of in the menus, and how

• login screen

  • can we make the special live-cd situation more intuitive ?

• bootup + should we look at the nm dispatcher work by jon nettleton ?

• content

  • people have proposed to add some free content to the cd

• anything else people want to see improved

Matthias

I have posted this idea before but on fedora-devel mailin list, and it got great response. I'm reposting it here and adding a RFE to fedora-destop.

• Desktop shortcut for joining Fedora IRC (aka "Get Live Help")

Fedora is about freedom+communication, right? Why not make this statement more that just a nice slogan. If you installed saabyon linux you could experienced for yourself what this really means. I as a new user to gentoo (sabayon is based on gentoo) was really blown away with this feature. It is really, really simple to implement and gives a real meaning to a communication friendly linux distro. In sabayon link to their IRC chat has a simple name "Get Live Help" and it work fabulous! I didn't have any Portage experience so I poped in IRC chat room and was on my way after I got quick help. Whis kind of help was precious to me and would love to see it in fedora as one of it's main features and not just as a slogan. screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=382063978&size=l

Here are some of the suggestions that followed this discussion:

+1 although should this need a specific support channel?

I would really like this for a rescue situation, so that I don't have to register nick's and muck around trying to remember my nick and password. For total newbies, it'd be good too. I imagine that it wouldn't that significant of a burden. Over on the user list, the OP mentioned Sabayon doing this. Pidgin is in the live cd and would work fine for this, to my knowledge. It would have to be something in the live cd. I see it more as a live-cd thing rather than necessary on an actual install.

On Jan 25, 2008 1:32 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turkovic@gmail.com wrote:

• Desktop shortcut for joining Fedora IRC (aka "Get Live Help")

Fedora is about freedom+communication, right?

For those of you who remember..... Ximian's Gnome desktop had a specialized irc client and a gnome panel entry that started it up that did this very thing in the RHL 7.x time period.

I spent an inordinate amount of time on Ximian's monkeychat irc channel, helping people through things. I think it was a valuable thing to have, but it was not really organized.

If we were going to do something similar in Fedora, I would strongly suggest these items be addressed before it goes live in a spin:

1) that we have a team of individuals ready to go as ops for the channel before it goes live in a spin, with an effort to get 24 hour coverage. These are the people with the authority to step in and move things along if the conversation degrades.

2) Identify a "helper" role and a list of people who are filling that role and provide best practices policy for how to help users coming in with problems. This may or may not be the same as the ops role. The point being these are the people who commit to "helpdesk hours" in a public way. If someone comes in at a certain time, they should be able to check and see if a helper is manning the helpdesk. Mutual aid between users is a very useful thing, but having someone there who is committed to setting an example on how to work through problems with other people goes along way towards keeping things pleasant and constructive.

3) There needs to be an established rules of conduct which is presented to users before they enter the channel. Not in the channel topic...after they've entered. I want a nag dialog, prior to entering irc-space. A first time dialog would be fine.

-jef

On Jan 28, 2008 9:48 AM, Matej Cepl mcepl@redhat.com wrote:

Either of these would be OK with me -- being a bugmaster for the desktop team, I think I could extend my role to this easily. Of course, I could swear only to be present in working hours (CET).

We all do what we can. I just want a system so I and everyone else, can see who's committed to doing what, so we can start getting a sense of what contribution means beyond maintaining a package. Helping other users is part of that, but we don't really 'see' it or recognize it, at the project level. I think its time to do that. For example, #fedora could be a lot better than what it is, if we organized help just a weebit. Office hours in a help channel, is a small thing, but makes a lot of sense. And if we can have a helper or two attached to every SIG, so we can carve out some common tasking across all SIGs, then maybe having an office hour or two in the irc channel could be one of those things.

Organizing a group of helpers I don't think will be very hard, we don't need 24 hour coverage, having holes in the schedule encourages new people to step up.

But if we are going to do it, then we need to have the bits in place... UI which whisks people to an irc channel, and works with livecd images. So the UI pretty much has to ask for an irc nick to use..unique default username can't be assumed for livecd scenarios. Do we have someone we can do the technical bits and make the push for help button happen? That person isn't me. If someone can commit to making that button happen, I'll organize the initial helpdesk members and ops for a new channel (or perhaps I'll clean up #fedora.. which would involve allowing non registered users)

-jef