IMHO, Software is a very important application in the Workstation concept, however much of the appdata needs refinement and curation to make it even more useful to Fedora Workstation users.
What it be a good idea to start up a team of some sort to start up this process?
A little unsure of the best way to approach improving this part of the Workstation for our users.
cheers, ryanlerch
On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
IMHO, Software is a very important application in the Workstation concept, however much of the appdata needs refinement and curation to make it even more useful to Fedora Workstation users.
What it be a good idea to start up a team of some sort to start up this process?
A little unsure of the best way to approach improving this part of the Workstation for our users.
cheers, ryanlerch -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
If you find any issues with app descriptions, or missing app descriptions, or missing screenshots, simply submit patches upstream.
On Fri 27 Jun 2014 11:50:47 AM EDT, Elad Alfassa wrote:
On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Ryan Lerch <rlerch@redhat.com mailto:rlerch@redhat.com> wrote:
IMHO, Software is a very important application in the Workstation concept, however much of the appdata needs refinement and curation to make it even more useful to Fedora Workstation users. What it be a good idea to start up a team of some sort to start up this process? A little unsure of the best way to approach improving this part of the Workstation for our users. cheers, ryanlerch -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.__org <mailto:desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.__org/mailman/listinfo/desktop <https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop>If you find any issues with app descriptions, or missing app descriptions, or missing screenshots, simply submit patches upstream.
That is all well and good (and i have contributed 60+ screenshots in the past), so I know how it works. But the idea behind something more formal would be to create a task list of apps that need better data, so anything that is filed upstream is recorded. Also the software application has the concept of Featured applications, which we need to curate and focus more on Fedora's target audience.
regards, Ryanlerch
On 27 June 2014 18:21, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
That is all well and good (and i have contributed 60+ screenshots in the past), so I know how it works. But the idea behind something more formal would be to create a task list of apps that need better data, so anything that is filed upstream is recorded.
Yes, this would be a good idea. Apps that we can verify have good quality and up to date AppData before every release. Additionally, writing AppData like you have done for Firefox where it's very hard to push it upstream surely must continue, and I think the fedora-appstream dump is probably the right place for those cases. We probably ought to translate some of those too.
Also the software application has the concept of Featured applications, which we need to curate and focus more on Fedora's target audience.
This is important also, and certainly needs a refresh for 3.13.x already. We also need to start identifying better ways of suggesting applications, e.g. if I have GIMP and Inkscape installed, MyPaint is probably more relevant than Geary. We couldn't do this before as so few apps had AppData, but nowadays things are looking distinctly more rosy[1].
Richard
[1] http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/screenshots/f21/status.html
On Fri, 2014-06-27 at 11:47 -0400, Ryan Lerch wrote:
IMHO, Software is a very important application in the Workstation concept, however much of the appdata needs refinement and curation to make it even more useful to Fedora Workstation users.
What it be a good idea to start up a team of some sort to start up this process?
A little unsure of the best way to approach improving this part of the Workstation for our users.
cheers, ryanlerch
A few slightly-related thoughts:
Appdata Complaint #1: I've found it very difficult to take good screenshots for my applications (the GNOME games). Most are intended to run in small windows, and do not look good when resized to 16:9. Some are unresizable. And Richard's screenshot window sizer extension is broken for apps with header bars, so my screenshots aren't even at appropriate sizes. I want to do better, but I'm not sure how.
Appdata Complaint #2: There's no standard on when to use the <project_name> tag. I use it for games with generic names, so that the software center displays "GNOME Chess" rather than simply "Chess," but other apps with generic names do not use it.
Appdata Compliant #3: The <project_group> tag is also not used consistently. I'm not sure how many GNOME apps actually declare themselves to be in the GNOME project group.
On 27 June 2014 17:59, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
Appdata Complaint #1: I've found it very difficult to take good screenshots for my applications (the GNOME games). Most are intended to run in small windows, and do not look good when resized to 16:9. Some are unresizable. And Richard's screenshot window sizer extension is broken for apps with header bars, so my screenshots aren't even at appropriate sizes. I want to do better, but I'm not sure how.
I think without making the details page in gnome-software resize and reflow (which we don't really want to do) we really have to ask for 16:9 screenshots. I'm sure we can work on the padding+resizing algorithm, as that does some pretty brain-dead things (like resizing a 760x431 image to 752x423) sometimes.
Appdata Complaint #2: There's no standard on when to use the <project_name> tag.
This is what we've been working on http://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-Application... -- it's for version 0.7 of the spec, but applies equally well on older versions.
I use it for games with generic names, so that the software center displays "GNOME Chess" rather than simply "Chess," but other apps with generic names do not use it.
You mean <name> then, not <project_name>. What I would do in this case is have "Chess" as the name in the .desktop file, and "GNOME Chess" in the AppData file.
Appdata Compliant #3: The <project_group> tag is also not used consistently. I'm not sure how many GNOME apps actually declare themselves to be in the GNOME project group.
Right, the metadata extractor uses a few different heuristics[1] to try and set the <project_group> if not already set as this is very important so that we prioritize GNOME apps on GNOME, and KDE apps in KDE. We've actually added a <project_name> tag if you want to show something translatable in the software center, e.g. "The GNOME Chess Developers" rather than falling back to the untranslated <project_group>.
Richard
[1] https://github.com/hughsie/appstream-glib/blob/master/libappstream-builder/p...
On Fri, 2014-06-27 at 19:30 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
I think without making the details page in gnome-software resize and reflow (which we don't really want to do) we really have to ask for 16:9 screenshots. I'm sure we can work on the padding+resizing algorithm, as that does some pretty brain-dead things (like resizing a 760x431 image to 752x423) sometimes.
:/ I'm really at a loss for what to do here. For some games, I've placed windows side-by-side, and have a screenshot of them both together. For others I zoomed in and cropped. Either way looks pretty bad.
This is what we've been working on http://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-Metadata-Application... -- it's for version 0.7 of the spec, but applies equally well on older versions.
You mean <name> then, not <project_name>. What I would do in this case is have "Chess" as the name in the .desktop file, and "GNOME Chess" in the AppData file.
OK, so it seems like it'd be good to go through GNOME and start adding the <project_name> tag to all the appdata files, so the software center shows GNOME Files, GNOME Documents, etc. instead of the generic names. And <project_group> as well. I can do this for the core apps if this is what you want to happen?
Right, the metadata extractor uses a few different heuristics[1] to try and set the <project_group> if not already set as this is very important so that we prioritize GNOME apps on GNOME, and KDE apps in KDE. We've actually added a <project_name> tag if you want to show something translatable in the software center, e.g. "The GNOME Chess Developers" rather than falling back to the untranslated <project_group>.
Just GNOME is fine for me; no need to translate that!
----- Original Message -----
On Fri, 2014-06-27 at 19:30 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:
I think without making the details page in gnome-software resize and reflow (which we don't really want to do) we really have to ask for 16:9 screenshots. I'm sure we can work on the padding+resizing algorithm, as that does some pretty brain-dead things (like resizing a 760x431 image to 752x423) sometimes.
:/ I'm really at a loss for what to do here. For some games, I've placed windows side-by-side, and have a screenshot of them both together. For others I zoomed in and cropped. Either way looks pretty bad.
A developer tool should be shipped with gnome-software (in a sub-package I guess), that consumes an uninstalled app-data file (possibly untranslated?) and shows what it would look like in the full application.
This debug/test tool could be seen as a UI version of the appdata validation tools.
Right now, the test cycle is just too long (or I haven't figured out how to test those appdata files without actually shipping them in Fedora, or creating my own repositories).
Does that sound sane? Want me to file a bug?
Cheers
On 27 June 2014 22:59, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
A developer tool should be shipped with gnome-software (in a sub-package I guess), that consumes an uninstalled app-data file (possibly untranslated?) and shows what it would look like in the full application.
Yes, makes sense to me. At the moment with git master you can install an appdata and desktop file in any of the datadirs, and the application will use the data (except screenshots), although I don't know how easy that is.
Want me to file a bug?
Please.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
On 27 June 2014 22:59, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
A developer tool should be shipped with gnome-software (in a sub-package I guess), that consumes an uninstalled app-data file (possibly untranslated?) and shows what it would look like in the full application.
Yes, makes sense to me. At the moment with git master you can install an appdata and desktop file in any of the datadirs, and the application will use the data (except screenshots), although I don't know how easy that is.
Want me to file a bug?
Please.
For reference: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732466
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Bastien Nocera -
Elad Alfassa -
Michael Catanzaro -
Richard Hughes -
Ryan Lerch