Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Regards
Do you mean nautilus?
2009/11/13, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Regards
-- Tareq Al Jurf Fedora Ambassador Riyadh, Saudi Arabia taljurf@fedoraproject.org
+1 :) yes, nautilus
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Josephine Tannhäuser < josephine.tannhauser@googlemail.com> wrote:
Do you mean nautilus?
2009/11/13, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the
behavior
of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Regards
-- Tareq Al Jurf Fedora Ambassador Riyadh, Saudi Arabia taljurf@fedoraproject.org
-- Josephine "Fine" Tannhäuser 2.6.18-164.2.1.el5 2.6.30.9-90.fc11.i586
-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
I do the same, everytime.
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Regards
-- Tareq Al Jurf Fedora Ambassador Riyadh, Saudi Arabia taljurf@fedoraproject.org
-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 11:06 -0200, Claudio Penasio Junior wrote:
I do the same, everytime.
And I leave it the way it is (spatial)... it's just what you're used to and that's different for everyone.
Dan
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote: Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Regards -- Tareq Al Jurf Fedora Ambassador Riyadh, Saudi Arabia taljurf@fedoraproject.org -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list-- Claudio Penasio Jr.
-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Yes, I agree.
Jon
mh, open a bug give the link here and you all should vote for a +1 in the bugreport!
2009/11/17, William Jon McCann william.jon.mccann@gmail.com:
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Yes, I agree.
Jon
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On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 14:26 +0100, Josephine Tannhäuser wrote:
mh, open a bug give the link here and you all should vote for a +1 in the bugreport!
That's not how it works.
Jon will be making the case for this change upstream with the reasoning behind the decision, and then that change will be made in our version of the packages.
You don't get to vote on design decisions (or in the Fedora or GNOME bugzillas for that matter)
On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 13:57 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 14:26 +0100, Josephine Tannhäuser wrote:
mh, open a bug give the link here and you all should vote for a +1 in the bugreport!
That's not how it works.
Jon will be making the case for this change upstream with the reasoning behind the decision, and then that change will be made in our version of the packages.
Jon and I have been discussing this point back and forth for a while. I think the change from spatial mode to browser mode will come naturally with the changed role that nautilus will play in a gnome-shell-based desktop, ie in GNOME 3.
Changing the default before that might not be such a good idea. At least to me, spatial nautilus is a big part of what makes up the GNOME 2 desktop.
Matthias
2009/11/17 William Jon McCann william.jon.mccann@gmail.com:
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the behavior of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Yes, I agree.
I prefer spatial, but there's one thing I miss from browser mode: the places sidebar. It's just very handy to be able to open and drag things into your devices/bookmarks.
But changing completely to full browser mode without rethinking that interface is not a good move IMHO. Browser windows feel too clunky with all those buttons in *two* toolbars. There were some mockups on planet Gnome that looked nice and maybe it could be interesting to play with them, basically simplifying the interface.
For instance, the places sidebar is (to me) clearly desirable to have there all the time in spatial mode. But the dropdown to choose the other sidebars could be eliminated. Maybe the tree sidebar could be the default for browser mode[1]? All the others are better provided either in a dynamically created right sidebar or elsewhere (notes and emblems are already in each item's preferences).
And of course, all this should be judged with the way gnome-shell works and how it provides (or doesn't) easy access to the relevant places in the filesystem.
Rui
[1] And still, users which crave for the Windows Explorer tree view will feel disappointed I think...
2009/11/18 Rui Tiago Cação Matos tiagomatos@gmail.com
2009/11/17 William Jon McCann william.jon.mccann@gmail.com:
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi all I think that we should change somethings in fedora that would make it easier. Things that whenever a new person starts fedora for the first time would change them. For example whenever i start fedora for the first time i change the
behavior
of the folders and make them open in browser can we make that default? Because i think most people do that.
Yes, I agree.
I prefer spatial, but there's one thing I miss from browser mode: the places sidebar. It's just very handy to be able to open and drag things into your devices/bookmarks.
In spitial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in a new window? If we could make that optional, I mean to be able to use spitial mode with a new option which enables you to open folders in the same window. And make the default mode is to open folders in the same window.
But changing completely to full browser mode without rethinking that interface is not a good move IMHO. Browser windows feel too clunky with all those buttons in *two* toolbars. There were some mockups on planet Gnome that looked nice and maybe it could be interesting to play with them, basically simplifying the interface.
For instance, the places sidebar is (to me) clearly desirable to have there all the time in spatial mode. But the dropdown to choose the other sidebars could be eliminated. Maybe the tree sidebar could be the default for browser mode[1]? All the others are better provided either in a dynamically created right sidebar or elsewhere (notes and emblems are already in each item's preferences).
It would be great if we can modify the spatial mode, can we (since im not a programmer)
And of course, all this should be judged with the way gnome-shell
works and how it provides (or doesn't) easy access to the relevant places in the filesystem.
Of course, if someone has any idea about this please inform us
Rui
[1] And still, users which crave for the Windows Explorer tree view will feel disappointed I think...
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On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:58 +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
In spitial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in a new window? If we could make that optional, I mean to be able to use spitial mode with a new option which enables you to open folders in the same window. And make the default mode is to open folders in the same window.
That, um, wouldn't be spatial.
On 18/11/2009, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
In spatial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in a new window?
No. It works great for me. Knowing the keyboard shortcuts helps and after being used to it I don't want to go back.
But I can see how people don't like it, especially after having used Windows. They are just used to a certain way of working which is totally fine and understandable. If the default just changes to browser I'll happily change the setting for me.
Rui
Yup since the majority of new Fedora users come from windows we want to make it easy for them Another issue we should discuss is the Keyboard Layout Key this is a problem for bilingual Fedora users (like me) Why don't we make the default ALT+SHIFT I think it's the most popular for my self, when i install Fedora i add the Arabic then change the key right away
In my opinion The idea should be to make Fedora easier, more comfortable and ready to use for 90% of the users even if we should sometimes leave the upstream.
2009/11/18 Rui Tiago Cação Matos tiagomatos@gmail.com
On 18/11/2009, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
In spatial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in
a
new window?
No. It works great for me. Knowing the keyboard shortcuts helps and after being used to it I don't want to go back.
But I can see how people don't like it, especially after having used Windows. They are just used to a certain way of working which is totally fine and understandable. If the default just changes to browser I'll happily change the setting for me.
Rui
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On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:08 AM, Tareq Al Jurf taljurf@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yup since the majority of new Fedora users come from windows we want to make it easy for them
Nnnngh.
So we should be just like Windows. Except that we never will be as windows as windows. And if they're switching from Windows... why do we want to be like Windows again?
Blind cargo-culting is usually a bad idea, but if we're going to cargo cult, can't we steal from a better system (eg, Mac)?
Monty (Let's see how many people figure out that was a troll. Oops! Damn.)
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 02:08:50PM +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
Yup since the majority of new Fedora users come from windows we want to make it easy for them
1. Do you have statistics supporting this?
2. Do we really want to be like Windows, if people are switching away from it for something better?
Another issue we should discuss is the Keyboard Layout Key this is a problem for bilingual Fedora users (like me) Why don't we make the default ALT+SHIFT I think it's the most popular
Again, you'd need something to back this up, but I expect you could discuss this with the Fedora I18n engineering folks who work on multilingual support tools, as opposed to this list.
for my self, when i install Fedora i add the Arabic then change the key right away
In my opinion The idea should be to make Fedora easier, more comfortable and ready to use for 90% of the users even if we should sometimes leave the upstream.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WhyUpstream
There are sometimes reasons to diverge but we don't pursue it as our first option. The above page is important to understand if you're interested in work as a Fedora Ambassador.
Forget the keyboard thing, ur right
But about Nautilus Read this for example http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=208330
and about the page "whyupstream" i've read it before
Regards
2009/11/18 Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 02:08:50PM +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
Yup since the majority of new Fedora users come from windows we want to make it easy for them
Do you have statistics supporting this?
Do we really want to be like Windows, if people are switching away
from it for something better?
Another issue we should discuss is the Keyboard Layout Key this is a problem for bilingual Fedora users (like me) Why don't we make the default ALT+SHIFT I think it's the most popular
Again, you'd need something to back this up, but I expect you could discuss this with the Fedora I18n engineering folks who work on multilingual support tools, as opposed to this list.
for my self, when i install Fedora i add the Arabic then change the
key
right away
In my opinion The idea should be to make Fedora easier, more comfortable and ready
to
use for 90% of the users even if we should sometimes leave the
upstream.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WhyUpstream
There are sometimes reasons to diverge but we don't pursue it as our first option. The above page is important to understand if you're interested in work as a Fedora Ambassador.
-- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
-- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 09:45:22AM +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
But about Nautilus Read this for example [1]http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=208330
Random polls don't usually lead to good design decisions. Usability studies, on the other hand....
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:58 +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
In spitial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in a new window?
No.
If we could make that optional, I mean to be able to use spitial mode with a new option which enables you to open folders in the same window. And make the default mode is to open folders in the same window.
It is already optional. If you middle click or shift double click on a folder it'll open in the same window as opposed to opening new windows.
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:08 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:58 +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
In spitial mode don't you feel that it's annoying to open each folder in a new window?
No.
If we could make that optional, I mean to be able to use spitial mode with a new option which enables you to open folders in the same window. And make the default mode is to open folders in the same window.
It is already optional. If you middle click or shift double click on a folder it'll open in the same window as opposed to opening new windows.
it doesn't open in the same window, it opens in a new window and simultaneously closes the parent window. (the difference is significant; as per the rules of...spatiality...? the window for the newly opened folder will have the same properties you set last time you opened the same folder. so it won't necessarily bear any resemblance to the properties of the window for the _parent_ folder. If I double-middle-click on my Downloads folder from my home folder, I get a window that's three times as big and in a completely different place.)
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:26 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
it doesn't open in the same window, it opens in a new window and simultaneously closes the parent window. (the difference is significant; as per the rules of...spatiality...? the window for the newly opened folder will have the same properties you set last time you opened the same folder. so it won't necessarily bear any resemblance to the properties of the window for the _parent_ folder. If I double-middle-click on my Downloads folder from my home folder, I get a window that's three times as big and in a completely different place.)
Well sure, but I like that too, as there are certain tasks I do with certain folders and I like those properties to be remembered and re-used.
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 11:08 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:26 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
it doesn't open in the same window, it opens in a new window and simultaneously closes the parent window. (the difference is significant; as per the rules of...spatiality...? the window for the newly opened folder will have the same properties you set last time you opened the same folder. so it won't necessarily bear any resemblance to the properties of the window for the _parent_ folder. If I double-middle-click on my Downloads folder from my home folder, I get a window that's three times as big and in a completely different place.)
Well sure, but I like that too, as there are certain tasks I do with certain folders and I like those properties to be remembered and re-used.
sure, I like it too, but it definitely isn't the behaviour the original poster asked for :)
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