desktop July 2004

desktop@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

64 participants
31 discussions

test plans
by Havoc Pennington 03 Aug '04

03 Aug '04

Hi, I'd like to see some more detailed test plans for the Fedora desktop. These need not be complicated or long, just a set of basic things we want to try out in each of the major apps and in the OS itself. Here are some notes I have on things we might include. I know that some of these tests would not pass at the moment, no need to point that out ;-) - basic run through a login session; log in, log out, launch some apps; does anything embarassing happen - install previous version of the OS; log in to a user account, play with some things, change settings; tar up and save the user home directory; install current version of the OS, and unpack same user home directory; repeat the above basic run through a login session - develop list of major apps that must be tested, check basic functionality of each. e.g. browser, office, mail, IM, etc. - input methods work in these apps - printing works properly in all 10 languages from these major apps - Windows printers are detected and shown automatically in print dialog - CUPS printers are detected and shown automatically in print dialog - in Nautilus, verify that Windows file shares appear automatically and the files there can be opened on double click, specifically check MS Office files - verify that plugging in several representative USB storage devices results in them appearing on the desktop and working - verify that if a local USB printer is plugged in, it is automatically configured and made available - verify that on plugging a network cable the link is automatically brought up and dhcp run - verify that wireless networking can be used without resorting to the command line at all - login to FC1/2, login to FC3 same homedir, run through major apps and check for confusion with shared NFS homedir - login on two different machines, same homedir, with same FC version, check for badness - login twice on same machine same user and check for badness - test lockdown of settings, ensure desktop behaves properly and user can't avoid the lockdown - test X on some list of video hardware; automated smoke test - accessibility, e.g. test screen reader and onscreen keyboard - correct fonts used in 10 languages for set of common font names - suite of Microsoft documents to be imported correctly (screenshots of correct appearance?) - suite of web pages to render correctly - cut-and-paste to/from a big matrix of sources/targets - out of disk space, behavior on login and when saving from the major apps - set date/time backward, see if desktop or login breaks - run any test suites we have for specific components - verify that all browser plugins work (including the proprietary ones available from third parties) - verify important MIME associations, e.g. .doc opens in OpenOffice.org, etc. - test use of an Active Directory account for Linux login As you can see from the list, the plans need to be more specific, and point to the files (tarred up homedirs, web pages, office documents, etc.) to be used. Havoc

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gcc-3.4.1 on amd64
by Muhammad Soofi 31 Jul '04

31 Jul '04

Dear Fedora users, I am trying to install gcc-3.4.1 on my desktop which has an amd64 processor, running Fedora Core 2. The system has gcc-3.3.3 and attempts to upgrade it to gcc-3.4.1 has been unsuccessful. In the first attempt everything was kept as default. The process failed in the "make bootstrap" stage with the error: fatal error, run-time library not installed correctly cannot locate file system.ads Learning that this error is related to Ada part of gcc, decided to exclude Ada from the gcc implementation with the option: */configure --languages=c,c++,objc,f77,java This also failed with the error, /usr/bin/ld: crti.o: No such file or directory actual location of the file is, /usr/lib64/crti.o The procedure I am following is as follow: gcc341 (directory) _____________|__________ | | srcdir objdir | In the directory ran gcc-3.4.1 following commands: -> .../srcdir/gcc-3.4.1/configure -> make bootstrap -> make install The above procedure worked for installation of gcc-3.4.1 on a PII machine running Fedora Core 2 but cannot pass "make bootstrap" for amd64 machine. Any suggestion towards the solution of the problem would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Muhammad Soofi _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com

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Updating to GNOME 2.7
by Mark McLoughlin 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

Hey, Just a heads up - starting soon we're going to be updating FC3 to GNOME 2.7. Its a lot of packages and there are bound to be transient problems but hopefully things won't be too bad. We'll also be going through the process (on fedora-desktop-list) of figuring out which of the new GNOME packages we'll be including in FC3. >From a cursory look, those are: - dasher - evolution-webcal - gnome-keyring-manager - gnome-nettool Appended is the list of packages which need updating. Obviously, more packages will need updating as releases upstream happen. As this is happening, please do test and report any brokenness on fedora-test-list - we'll let you know whether its a simple transient issue or something you should put into bugzilla. Thanks, Mark ORBit2 2.10.0 2.11.1 pango 1.4.0 1.5.1 atk 1.6.0 1.7.2 GConf2 2.6.0 2.7.3.1 gnome-vfs2 2.6.0 2.7.4 audiofile 0.2.5 0.2.6 libgnome 2.6.0 2.7.2 libgnomecanvas 2.6.1.1 2.7.1 libbonoboui 2.6.0 2.6.1 libgnomeui 2.6.0 2.7.2 gail 1.6.0 1.6.6 at-spi 1.4.0 1.5.3 bug-buddy 2.6.1 2.7.0 desktop-file-utils 0.4 0.7 eel2 2.6.0 2.7.3 eog 2.6.1 2.7.0 epiphany 1.2.6 1.3.3 file-roller 2.6.2 2.7.2 gal 0.24 2.1.12 gconf-editor 2.6.0 2.7.4 gdm 2.6.0.3 2.6.0.3 gedit 2.6.1 2.7.1 ggv 2.6.1 2.7.0 gnome-applets 2.6.2.1 2.7.0 gnome-desktop 2.6.0.1 2.7.4 gnome-games 2.6.2 2.7.5 gnome-icon-theme 1.2.0 1.3.5 gnome-keyring 0.2.0 0.3.2 gnome-media 2.6.2 2.7.1 gnome-netstatus 2.6.0.1 2.7.3.1 gnome-panel 2.6.0 2.7.4.1 gnome-session 2.6.0 2.7.4 gnome-speech 0.3.2 0.3.3 gnome-system-monitor 2.6.0 2.7.0 gnome-terminal 2.6.0 2.7.3 gnome-themes 2.6.0 2.7.3 gnome-utils 2.6.2 2.7.0 gnopernicus 0.9.5 0.9.6 gok 0.11.2 0.11.5 gpdf 0.131 2.7.2 gtkhtml 1.1.9 3.1.18 gtksourceview 1.0.0 1.0.1 libgail-gnome 1.0.2 1.0.5 gtkhtml2 2.6.0 2.6.2 libgtop2 2.5.2 2.7.4 librsvg2 2.6.4 2.7.2 libwnck 2.6.0.1 2.6.2.1 nautilus 2.6.0 2.7.2 nautilus-cd-burner 2.6.0 2.7.4 startup-notification 0.6 0.7 vino 2.7.3.1 2.7.4 pygtk 2.2.0 2.3.94

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Comments Regarding Linux Desktop Usability for Teenagers
by Jonathan Marc Bearak 30 Jul '04

30 Jul '04

I believe that one of the most intriguing areas of desktop usability is for teenagers. That is, not teenagers such as myself, but rather ones who are not hackers and are not unusually knowledgeable about computers for someone of their age group. My sister, who is 15, has now been working with Fedora Core 2 for a few weeks. She is not particularly adept with computers. I often needed to help with simple tasks on Windows, such as setting up a printer. She is not someone who would typically be running Linux. I will say quickly regarding why she switched that she experienced platform reliability issues and recently faced a situation requiring a clean install. My main interest at this point, however, is in her continued use of Linux. She commented to me that she no longer misses Windows because she has found Fedora to be reliable. It is extremely important to understand that she is not referring to the Windows OS but the platform as a whole. The Linux desktop is actively working to create a clean and consistent environment. Applications on Windows are often inconsistent and unreliable. The desktop platform is what appeals to her -- not Linux itself. From a person without any understanding of open source or the GPL, the concept of the Linux kernel, or any interest in our politics, that is a user's perspective which should make desktop developers proud of the progress that has been made. I have had to help in several areas to maintain my sister's now-Linux computer. These have not been in areas of cross-platform compatibility, but of interaction with the system. As I recall, one of the first things I had to do was install giFToxic. I used Dag Wiers' yum repository. I found that files were missing in /usr/lib/giFT and so copied files from my computer's /usr/local/lib/giFT (compiled) to her notebook. I also copied my .giFT directory. This is not something that is likely to be dealt with in Fedora development, nor should it. I know that without peer-to-peer software and without the ability to download music, she would not continue using her computer. This is a predominant aspect of teenage computer use, and one that is difficult to overlook. I installed multimedia apps through yum. A standard procedure, and frankly, easier than Windows -- just a command and some patience. Password, enter, wait. I installed RealPlayer 10. I thought this would be necessary for streaming media now that she doesn't have Windows Media Player. She complained that launch.com doesn't work. I remembered something obscure -- launch only worked in Netscape 4. I couldn't remember why, but that was the case. I installed netscape-navigator from the Dag yum repository. This of course is already beyond what a normal user would even think vaguely about. I then opened Launchcast. The window opened, and I awaited the Flash applet to load. But I was told that it could not work; Launchcast requires Windows Media Player. I didn't immediately understand this -- I used to use Launch not so many years ago. RealPlayer had been an option in the past. This bring up another platform issue: multimedia. Linux desktop applications exist that are compatible with Office documents. But Linux multimedia has is limited by outside factors. Fortunately, giFToxic satisfied her needs; she could watch music videos on her computer. I would point out that WMA support is going to be necessary in applications like Rhythmbox, which she seems to use as her only audio player. Her downloaded songs are mp3's, and I had Ogg Vorbis copies of much of her music. CD's which she had already ripped were in mp3 format only because I set Windows Media Player to encode to mp3s almost immediately after she first bought her notebook. This is not the case for most individuals, and there is not much that can be done to stop people from making WMA recordings. Down the line, this will be a big factor in people trying Linux. (It is somewhat analogous to the concept of "addicting" college students to Napster subscriptions.) Another area was in setting up her printer. On Windows, this involved downloading and installing drivers for her (HP PhotoSmart P1100) printer. It took me a long time, and was way too complex. On Linux, I simply plugged in the printer, chose /dev/USB/lp0 in the Add Printer druid, chose the appropriate printer from the list, and was done. Still, she could not figure out how to set up her printer. Of course not -- /dev/USB/lp0 is meaningless. I looked in System Tools->Hardware Browser. The Linux desktop knows that's her printer (regardless of the apps involved in detecting that detail (kudzu is irrelevant to her)). The printer configuration application should match /dev/USB/lp0 to the name of the printer attached to the USB port. It's a matter of terminology; a small detail that totally removes a user's ability to administer the system despite the rest of the procedure being understandable. Further, the new desktop background interface is unusable without explanation. There are no choices given by default! I had to show her to /usr/share/backgrounds in Nautilus and demonstrate dragging images into the Desktop Background window to change them. A simple solution is having a something akin to Apple's "Desktop Pictures" / "Choose Folder" options in the Mac OS X Desktop Background settings application. Also related to Gnome configuration, I asked if she liked Bluecurve. She wasn't fond of it. She didn't hate it, but she didn't like it either. (Nothing to say regarding Bluecurve's quality; I use the default theme with the Bluecurve-Gnome color scheme.) I showed her that she simply had to go to Prefs->Theme. She was confused "where's the preview" but was happily surprised that the themes changed instantly so there was no need for a preview Window as in Windows' Display control panel. Unfortunately, I had to go in to Details and switch the icons back to Bluecurve. Icons should not change when changing themes; this is unintuitive -- normal users do not think of this as part of the theme. On Windows, you can change the widgets. On Mac OS X, you can change the widget colors (blue/graphite). (Perhaps themes should just stick to Bluecurve unless they have their own specially-crafted icon set.) The rest of her system is normal. Firefox (installed through yum; but irrelevant, Mozilla provided by the base would have functioned just as well), Gaim, and OpenOffice.org. Her install consists of Personal Desktop + Games + Samba + the afforementioned applications installed through yum/up2date. Her computer is typically running all the time; she does not appear to turn it off. The nightly yum update is enabled (she ignored Windows Update alerts, and she ignored the red exclamation point of rhn-applet-gui.) She uses AOL for email (webmail interface). (She has commented that people should complain to AOL that they should make it work on Linux (not write a GTK+ client, of course, but "make it work" on Linux; an interesting particular in the way non-hackers understand how software works.)) These have been my observations of my sister's use of Linux, and my experiences where intervention has been required. I have brought up some larger issues, and some smaller points which can probably be addressed without too much effort. I hope others find this to be helpful and relevant to working with the desktop environment on Linux and Fedora. -- Jonathan Marc Bearak <jonathanbearak(a)yahoo.com>

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Fedora Project Mailing Lists reminder
by Elliot Lee 29 Jul '04

29 Jul '04

This is a reminder of the mailing lists for the Fedora Project, and the purpose of each list. You can view this information at http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ When you're using these mailing lists, please take the time to choose the one that is most appropriate to your post. If you don't know the right mailing list to use for a question or discussion, please contact me. This will help you get the best possible answer for your question, and keep other list subscribers happy! Mailing Lists Mailing lists are email addresses which send email to all users subscribed to the mailing list. Sending an email to a mailing list reaches all users interested in discussing a specific topic and users available to help other users with the topic. The following mailing lists are available. To subscribe, send email to <listname>-request(a)redhat.com (replace <listname> with the desired mailing list name such as fedora-list) with the word subscribe in the subject. fedora-announce-list - Announcements of changes and events. To stay aware of news, subscribe to this list. fedora-list - For users of releases. If you want help with a problem installing or using , this is the list for you. fedora-test-list - For testers of test releases. If you would like to discuss experiences using TEST releases, this is the list for you. fedora-devel-list - For developers, developers, developers. If you are interested in helping create releases, this is the list for you. fedora-docs-list - For participants of the docs project fedora-desktop-list - For discussions about desktop issues such as user interfaces, artwork, and usability fedora-config-list - For discussions about the development of configuration tools fedora-legacy-announce - For announcements about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-legacy-list - For discussions about the Fedora Legacy Project fedora-selinux-list - For discussions about the Fedora SELinux Project fedora-de-list - For discussions about Fedora in the German language fedora-es-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Spanish language fedora-ja-list - For discussions about Fedora in the Japanese language fedora-i18n-list - For discussions about the internationalization of Fedora Core fedora-trans-list - For discussions about translating the software and documentation associated with the Fedora Project German: fedora-trans-de French: fedora-trans-fr Spanish: fedora-trans-es Italian: fedora-trans-it Brazilian Portuguese: fedora-trans-pt_br Japanese: fedora-trans-ja Korean: fedora-trans-ko Simplified Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_cn Traditional Chinese: fedora-trans-zh_tw

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How do i install the Fast Etherlink XL Card Bus (Gmail incentive) i have three invites left
by Jose Moreno 26 Jul '04

26 Jul '04

Hello, How can i get my Fast Etherlink cardbus PC Card to work on my Fedora install. 3c575-TX, 32BIT, 10/100 Base-TX Jose

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Bluecurve icons derivative works
by Schlaegel 25 Jul '04

25 Jul '04

I would like to distribute an application icon that will fit with the style of the Bluecurve theme. To do this I have taken some of the icons from redhat-artwork to use as bases. This makes my icon a derivate work of the redhat-artwork icons. Is distributing my derivative work allowed?

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AD connection
by Havoc Pennington 23 Jul '04

23 Jul '04

How much of this can we get going out of the box, or make easy? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1624773,00.asp Havoc

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installing latest kernel from CD-ROM
by Jose Moreno 22 Jul '04

22 Jul '04

hello, i'm new to RED HAT i'm trying to update my kernel from a CD-ROM i burned the kernel using Windows XP mounted the cdrom and could see the file copied to /tmp attempted to run the package but get the error " could not open file" is there a way for me to update the kernel through this method?

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Fedora Core2 Freezes on Dell Lattitude LS400
by Jose Moreno 21 Jul '04

21 Jul '04

I loaded Fedora Core2 from the ftp.redhat.com site on my dell latitude. it loads up until the Login screen, then once i enter my username and password, it freezes midway through. I tried KDE and GNOME and they both freeze any ideas why? i'm eager to get started with Linux. Display is a NeoMagice MagicGraph256AV Pentium 3 it works fine on Windows XP. i hate xp though :-0

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desktop July 2004