May 2015 - desktop - Fedora mailing-lists

Anaconda wishlist
by Michael Catanzaro 04 Jun '15

04 Jun '15

Hi, I put together a desired installation experience wishlist. Let's discuss and consider forwarding this to the Anaconda developers as a request. * Remove the timezone selection spoke. This spoke is redundant with gnome-initial-setup. * Remove or simplify the network configuration spoke. In the live installer, this spoke allows setting only the system hostname, but it follows different rules for setting the hostname than GNOME/systemd. The spoke should either follow hostnamed's rules for pretty hostnames (i.e. allows capital letters, spaces, etc. without any complaint), or the spoke should be removed. If we keep it, it should allow the user to set a "computer name" (avoiding technical terminology like "hostname") and should not include the phrase "network configuration." * Remove root password configuration. It's confusing how this is different from the user's admin account password. Advanced users can set a root password after installation if desired. * Remove user account creation. This is redundant with gnome-initial -setup. * Remove hub and spokes: simply go straight to keyboard layout selection after language selection, then from there to disk layout, optionally from there to the hostname panel, and then to the installation progress panel. This last panel will need a bit of a redesign, since it will be pretty empty otherwise. Clearly this is mostly a list of things to remove, rather than things to add. The goal is to make installation as simple and easy as possible. Changes to gnome-initial-setup: Skip language and keyboard layout selection in user creation mode. These panels cannot reasonably be removed from Anaconda, so we should use them only in existing user mode (when a new user account is created after installation). They're redundant in user creation mode. This proposal leaves the disk layout spoke untouched, which is the most confusing portion of the installation experience, but it's more than enough changes for one release already. Thoughts?

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Significant drop in ABRT reports in F22
by Jiri Eischmann 02 Jun '15

02 Jun '15

Hi, I regularly go through most frequent problems reported to ABRT retrace server because it helps me prioritize bugs in Fedora that are assigned to my team. I've noticed a significant drop in number of reports in Fedora 22. It's just two weeks before the final release when many early adopters are already running F22, but the difference in number of reports from F21 and F22 is huge: 64373:904. 12 days before F21 was released, we collected 16081 reports from this version. That's almost 18x more. I don't think we're experiencing such a huge drop in adoption, so I investigated more. I found out several things which I think are a cause of this: 1) I upgraded my machine, and the new Problem Reporting in Privacy Settings is set not to do automatic reporting, completely ignoring my settings in ABRT from F21. 2) I checked settings in ABRT and automatic settings was enabled, so I thought something was broken because my crashes were not reported automatically. Then (with the help of Jakub Filak) I found out that this had been overridden by the new settings in Privacy. 3) Users are no longer asked if they want to enable automatic reporting when the first crash happens. So unless despite complete lack of any hints they find their way into Privacy settings their crashes are not reported. I can no longer even make ureports manually by clicking on Report in notifications. To report it, I need to do the full BZ report. With such a decrease in number of reports, ABRT is much less useful to developers and I think we should fix it: * privacy settings should reflect my settings from ABRT after upgrade. * settings in ABRT and Control Center should be in sync, I understand that the Privacy is master settings overriding app's settings, but there is only one app reporting and it's very confusing for users. * users should be asked if they want to enable automatic reporting after the first crash like in the last. Jiri

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root login via gdm
by Pete Travis 30 May '15

30 May '15

At one time, one could not log in to a GNOME session on Fedora as the root account. Now, you can, out of the box. For me, this seems like less of a "getting in the user's way" thing, and more of a common sense default security policy - especially given all the work done to make things work smoothly with polkit. Am I missing something? If not, what about going back to blocking root login to desktop environments? -- -- Pete

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Re: VSYNC problems on Fedora 21/22 and Intel HD graphics...
by drago01 29 May '15

29 May '15

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:01 PM, Chris Wilson <chris(a)chris-wilson.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 03:37:29PM -0400, Alex G.S. wrote: >> Hello, >> First of all I love the new GNOME 3.16 release. The notifications and >> system tray icons (in the left) are great and productivity boosters. >> However, I'm having some issues with Intel HD graphics on X11 that make >> things very difficult. Though these problems are solved by the Wayland >> session it's still too unstable for me to use in production as a >> day-to-day desktop. >> Hardware: >> Intel® Core™ i5-4200M CPU @ 2.50GHz × 4 >> Intel® Haswell Mobile (HD 4600, i965) >> GNOME: >> Version 3.16.2 >> Kernel: >> 4.0.4-301.fc22.x86_64 >> Problem: >> [1]https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741376 >> At work I use two external monitors in addition to the laptop screen. >> VSYNC often breaks when using either SNA or UXA at random intervals. It >> also breaks also when I fullscreen any application in any monitor. Even >> when I force VSYNC in both xorg.conf and drirc it doesn't seem to help. >> These are configurations for reference: >> /etc/environment: >> CLUTTER_VBLANK=True >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf >> Section "Device" >> Identifier "Intel Graphics" >> Driver "intel" >> Option "AccelMethod" "sna" >> Option "TearFree" "true" >> Option "SwapbuffersWait" "true" > > Try Option "DRI" "2" in conjunction to the above. We no longer default to DRI3 in F22.

4 6

Fedora runtimes and sandboxed desktop applications
by Alexander Larsson 29 May '15

29 May '15

I'm working on an application sandboxing system called xdg-app, and the surrounding echo-system. I won't go into details, but there are some links to technical details at the end of the mail[1]. The basic idea is that we have two sources (both ostree trees), one called the runtime (/usr), and one called the app (/app), which get combined in a container-like environment at launch time by xdg-app, with configurable degrees of sandboxing. There is also some interaction with the host system so that installed desktop files show up in the shell and dbus session services from apps work. xdg-app has two major goals, the first is to allow applications to run in a sandboxed environment with minimal access to the host. The second is to allow third parties to create and distribute applications that run on all distributions (and the sandboxing helps making this less risky). To facilitate and test this I've also created an upstream gnome runtime[2] that gnome applications can chose to use. I'm also working on various Portal APIs[3] that allow sandboxed applications to safely interact with the system. But, third party applications are a long way off in the future, and so are sandboxed applications (which need not only a fleshed out set of sandbox APIs, but also modifications to individual apps). In the meantime it is still interesting to run bundled applications. For instance in the context of an Atomic-based Fedora Workstation (with readonly /usr), or if you want to run older or newer versions of applications than your distribution is shipping. It would make a lot of sense to use the existing packages in Fedora for this. And in order to kickstart discussions about this I've created an initial sample of a possible Fedora runtime using rpm-ostree and the Fedora 22 repositories: https://github.com/alexlarsson/fedora-runtime Building this produces a repo with the main runtime (org.fedoraproject.Platform) and a sdk runtime (org.fedoraproject.Sdk) which has some additional tools for app creation and debugging. It also builds .Var subruntimes that contain /var with the rpm db for use when building apps. The current package set is mostly based on what is in the gnome one, so don't consider this official in any way. These runtimes are made to work with xdg-app 0.3.0 which are now in updates-testing for F21 and F22. You also need rpm-ostree from git master for the container support to build the fedra runtime. In order to test the runtime I've also created a firefox application bundle. Unfortunately it requires some hacks in order to be relocated to /app, and to work as a bundle. However, it works pretty well, running somewhat contained with only access to the Downloads xdg directory and with ~/.mozilla being redirected to the per-app persistant data directory (~/.var/app/org.fedoraproject.firefox). Note however, that I would not consider this properly sandboxed, as it uses X11 for rendering, which is not very secure. The scripts to build the firefox bundle is here: https://github.com/alexlarsson/fedora-apps I've also put up a xdg-app repository so that you can easily test this: (Run these commands as non-root, due to the --user args) xdg-app add-remote --user --no-gpg-verify fedora http://people.redhat.com/~alexl/repo xdg-app install-runtime --user fedora org.fedoraproject.Platform 22 xdg-app install-app --user fedora org.fedoraproject.firefox xdg-app run org.fedoraproject.firefox Once installed the desktop file will be exported to the session, so you should also be able to launch it from the shell. In theory this should work on any distro, but I've only tried it on F21. The question is, would the Fedora project be interested in supplying and maintaining a Fedora runtime like this, which allows us (and others) to create applications using the fedora base. And if we do, exactly what should be considered part of the basic platform. Defining a platform requires a lot of care. It is a balance between wanting as much as possible in it to share more maintainance and updates and make it easier to write apps and on the other hand trying to keep the basic platfrom small, maintained and of high quality. The ABI requirements for a platform is a bit different than a regular distro. The goal is to allow apps built against a particular platform to run for years to come, so it should only do security and very important bugfix updates, and *never* break ABI. On the other hand, its easy to break ABI in a later version of the runtime, because they are parallel installed. This is somewhat different than our current updates which revs libraries during the distro lifetime as long as it also updates all users of it. An added complexity is that anything in the runtime that relies on some kind of IPC to the host (say the pulseaudio client libraries, or something that uses a dbus interface on the host) requires the host side of that IPC to remain available and backwards compatible in future versions of the distro, so we should err on exposing a minimal set of IPC. There is also some changes that may be required in the distro to keep unnecessary dependencies out of the runtime. For instance anything related to hardware or system initialization is completely unnecessary. Luckily much of this is being fixed by similar needs from docker already. One thing that is different from docker however, is that we generally want translations/locales in the runtime. But these are pretty large, so we want to handle them in a smart way. xdg-app has a feature that allows splitting a runtime into a base and a set of optional extensions that are mounted in the sandbox only when they are installed. I use this in the gnome runtime to split out each locale. Unfortunately Fedora uses a single large locale-archive file for its locales, so its hard to do that. This needs some research to figure out how to do properly. There are also some custom configuration that a runtime needs. For instance, the build script for the fedora runtime above drops in a new fontconfig file that adds a /app/share/fonts fontdir for app-bundled fonts and configuration to include the host fonts (which xdg-app exposes in /run/host/fonts). This would be nicer if this was just a fontconfig subpackage we could pull in, and I'm sure there are more similar configuration options that would be needed. Creating applications from fedora packages is a bit more complicated. The primary reason is that they need to be relocated to /app. In the hacky script above I just extract the rpm contents to /app and then rewrite some rpaths and shell scripts. A less hacky approach is to rebuild the rpms with a different rpm %_prefix macro, or to use relocatable rpms. It is not really significantly different from creating rpms to use in software collections though, so we have some experience with this. Packaging an application also requires some changes other than the relocatability itself. First of all, all "exported" files from an application (such as icons, desktop files, dbus service files, or other files that are read from outside the app itself) must have the application id (which is a dbus/java-style reverse dns name) as a filename prefix. This is both for avoiding conflicts, and for security reasons, see [4]. However, it wouldn't necessarily be a problem if we just did such changes on the regular fedora packages too, as a regular fedora packaging policy. One issue is that as third party packagers of applications we should not use the "official" app ids for our builds, as they would conflict with upstream doing their own release. So, our package of org.gnome.gedit should probably be called org.fedoraproject.gedit, which may require some minor tweaks to the build (for instance, this affects the dbus name the app uses for dbus activated desktop files, as well as the name of the desktop file itself). There are clearly a lot of details here, but I'll stop here and throw this out as the start of a discussion. I'll gladly reply to any questions people may have. [1] More information: My devconf talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-2a_XYJPEY gnome wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps xdg-app code: https://github.com/alexlarsson/xdg-app [2] Announcement of gnome runtime: https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2015/03/31/official-gnome-sdk-runtime-builds-… [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps/DocumentPortal https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps/Sandbox [4] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-os-list/2015-February/msg00009.html -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Alexander Larsson Red Hat, Inc alexl(a)redhat.com alexander.larsson(a)gmail.com He's a war-weary Republican vampire hunter on a search for his missing sister. She's a ditzy winged queen of the dead with the power to see death. They fight crime!

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New Member of List
by William Best 28 May '15

28 May '15

Hello, My name is William Best. I am not sure if this is the right group to join for how I would like to contribute. My passion/career involves helping people with developmental disabilities get better access to technology. Over the past year or so, I have been experimenting with different Linux distributions to come up with a low-cost, stable, and robust solution for the disabled people I work with. I really like Fedora the best out of the bunch for a variety of reasons. My goal is to help get features/apps that would help disabled people access technology in a better way. Let me know if I am in the right group for this. Thanks! ~William Best

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wired networking should work by default, even if not connected at install time
by Chris Murphy 28 May '15

28 May '15

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=963952 The gist of this bug is, if the user installs Fedora and doesn't have (wired) ethernet connected at the time of installation, onboot=no and therefore on any subsequent boot, the network does not come up. A separate GNOME bug is that even if the user manually turns on that wired connection, it isn't a sticky setting. So networking is off again the next reboot. The trick is to find the totally obscure and buried option for the wired device to connect automatically. This bug doesn't piss me off the way it did back in 2013 when I filed it, because I know the work around. But this is still a Top 10 Most Asinine Bug. Amusingly, wireless connections don't have this behavior, even though they're in the realm of 8000% more risky even when making a manual+conscious connection. Whereas when I take a physical plug and stick it into the jack, it's a considerable WTF moment when that connection doesn't work until I intervene further, and doesn't work yet again on a reboot until I intervene yet again. I can kinda sorta almost understand server folks differing on this (even though I find it specious for various reasons) but Workstation really shouldn't behave this way. It is not an easy work around, at all, when the user doesn't don't know about it. And in no sane world should they need to know about it. And even when they do know about it, it's always a *sigh* "oh yes, that" moment. So from every perspective I see it as a negative and no benefit. Thanks, -- Chris Murphy

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Re: VSYNC problems on Fedora 21/22 and Intel HD graphics...
by Alex G.S. 27 May '15

27 May '15

> > Let's actually look at what debug information is available then rather > than just flailing in the dark here. The journal since booting should > help see where the lookups are coming from, at least let me know how the > system is configured. What's the best way to capture a log and where should I upload it to? On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Chris Wilson <chris(a)chris-wilson.co.uk> wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 04:28:33PM -0400, Alex G.S. wrote: > > > Try Option "DRI" "2" in conjunction to the above. > > It worked momentarily but GNOME Shell locked up and crashed when I > had an > > application (Remmina) fullscreen in of the monitors. This happens > very > > frequently in my experience. GNOME just seems unstable on Intel HD > 4600. > > I even tried adding the following to my boot parameters but it didn't > > change anything: > > i915.semaphores=1 > > Let's actually look at what debug information is available then rather > than just flailing in the dark here. The journal since booting should > help see where the lookups are coming from, at least let me know how the > system is configured. > -Chris > > -- > Chris Wilson, Intel Open Source Technology Centre >

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VSYNC problems on Fedora 21/22 and Intel HD graphics...
by Alex G.S. 27 May '15

27 May '15

Hello, First of all I love the new GNOME 3.16 release. The notifications and system tray icons (in the left) are great and productivity boosters. However, I'm having some issues with Intel HD graphics on X11 that make things very difficult. Though these problems are solved by the Wayland session it's still too unstable for me to use in production as a day-to-day desktop. Hardware: Intel® Core™ i5-4200M CPU @ 2.50GHz × 4 Intel® Haswell Mobile (HD 4600, i965) GNOME: Version 3.16.2 Kernel: 4.0.4-301.fc22.x86_64 Problem: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741376 At work I use two external monitors in addition to the laptop screen. VSYNC often breaks when using either SNA or UXA at random intervals. It also breaks also when I fullscreen any application in any monitor. Even when I force VSYNC in both xorg.conf and drirc it doesn't seem to help. These are configurations for reference: /etc/environment: CLUTTER_VBLANK=True /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf Section "Device" Identifier "Intel Graphics" Driver "intel" Option "AccelMethod" "sna" Option "TearFree" "true" Option "SwapbuffersWait" "true" EndSection /etc/drirc <device screen="0" driver="i965"> <application name="Default"> <option name="force_s3tc_enable" value="true" /> <option name="no_rast" value="false" /> <option name="always_flush_batch" value="false" /> <option name="always_flush_cache" value="false" /> <option name="shader_precompile" value="true" /> <option name="hiz" value="true" /> <option name="clamp_max_samples" value="-1" /> <option name="bo_reuse" value="1" /> <option name="allow_glsl_extension_directive_midshader" value="false" /> <option name="force_glsl_extensions_warn" value="false" /> <option name="disable_throttling" value="false" /> <option name="disable_glsl_line_continuations" value="false" /> <option name="disable_blend_func_extended" value="false" /> <option name="vblank_mode" value="3" /> </application> I even have a GNOME extension I created that autoloads the following GNOME JS function: Meta.disable_unredirect_for_screen(global.screen) This still doesn't help at all. There is a bug report for this item and has been confirmed but I haven't heard anything and status is still NEW and not yet confirmed. Please, any help on this would be appreciated. Things like this should just work out of the box especially on Intel HD graphics. This is a bewildering problem as this is my work machine and I may end up switching to a Mac or Ubuntu Unity if this cannot be fixed. Thank you! Best, Alex

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Workstation WG Recap 2015-May-27
by Paul W. Frields 27 May '15

27 May '15

Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-27/workstation.2015… Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-27/workstation.2015… Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-27/workstation.2015… * * * ================================================== #fedora-meeting: Workstation WG (special timeslot) ================================================== Meeting started by stickster at 15:00:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-05-27/workstation.2015… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll call (stickster, 15:00:08) * Special time slot (stickster, 15:03:18) * This slot will not be repeated; next meeting is Monday 2015-Jun-08 at 1300 UTC (stickster, 15:03:38) * F23/24 plans (stickster, 15:04:02) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/27 (stickster, 15:04:43) * IDEA: Can we work toward a better upgrade story in F23/24 (stickster, 15:26:58) * ACTION: mcatanzaro to propose update to PRD to clarify that developer focus does not compromise the goal to be a "polished and user friendly system that can appeal to a wide general audience" (mcatanzaro, 15:31:10) * LINK: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2015-May/012065.html (mcatanzaro, 15:33:13) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist (stickster, 15:55:27) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist (stickster, 15:55:47) * many people who could work on F23 improvements are bound up on immediate RHEL work (stickster, 15:56:34) * ACTION: mclasen will also review foregoing task list to see what's already up that could be completed for F23 (stickster, 15:56:42) * LINK: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/so… (mclasen, 15:58:45) * ACTION: stickster pull together tasks from mclasen + update + anaconda requests into Council report for F23/24 (stickster, 15:59:29) * ACTION: stickster Set up whenisgood for WG + anaconda folks to discuss requests (stickster, 16:09:46) * stickster will carry over agenda items from mcatanzaro list so we can pick up at next meeting (stickster, 16:11:59) * Next meeting: 2015-Jun-08 UTC 1300 (stickster, 16:12:11) Meeting ended at 16:12:17 UTC. Action Items ------------ * mcatanzaro to propose update to PRD to clarify that developer focus does not compromise the goal to be a "polished and user friendly system that can appeal to a wide general audience" * mclasen will also review foregoing task list to see what's already up that could be completed for F23 * stickster pull together tasks from mclasen + update + anaconda requests into Council report for F23/24 * stickster Set up whenisgood for WG + anaconda folks to discuss requests Action Items, by person ----------------------- * mcatanzaro * mcatanzaro to propose update to PRD to clarify that developer focus does not compromise the goal to be a "polished and user friendly system that can appeal to a wide general audience" * mclasen * mclasen will also review foregoing task list to see what's already up that could be completed for F23 * stickster pull together tasks from mclasen + update + anaconda requests into Council report for F23/24 * stickster * stickster pull together tasks from mclasen + update + anaconda requests into Council report for F23/24 * stickster Set up whenisgood for WG + anaconda folks to discuss requests * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * stickster (99) * mclasen (33) * mcatanzaro (31) * cschalle (15) * otaylor (14) * dcantrell (13) * kalev (9) * zodbot (8) * jwb (8) * nirik (2) * rdieter (1) * pingou (1) * Kellin (1) * juhp (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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Next meeting reschedule?
by Paul W. Frields 27 May '15

27 May '15

Our next meeting is scheduled for Monday, May 25. This is a USA holiday, and most folks here tend to celebrate it AFK. My bet is many people wouldn't be available for our meeting. (That includes Yrs. Truly.) WG members, should we reschedule this, or just cancel it? If we want to reschedule, I'd suggest a one-time-only return to the old time, Wed 2015-May-27 at either 1500 UTC (11am US/Eastern). The meeting would return to the regular timeslot on 2015-Jun-08. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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Fixing express install for F23
by Paul W. Frields 19 May '15

19 May '15

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1178787 The removal of the separate Workstation DVD and netinst had some fallout with Boxes. It looks like this bug lay dormant after February, which is too bad because there was still time to fix things for F22 at that point. But we should see what to do about this situation for F23. My recollection is the WG opted for getting rid of the separate Workstation installation DVD and netinst in favor of the Live image only. But this causes issuses with Boxes/libosinfo express install of Fedora. One way to fix that would be to bring them back -- essentially go back to producing the images we offered before. That doesn't mean we need to advertise them on the website, though. What are the other alternatives for fixing? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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Fedora 22 update security
by Thiyagarajan, Nethaji 19 May '15

19 May '15

Hello, I find that the update utility in Fedora is not like in their previous versions I have used (at least until Fedora 20). The system notifies that there are updates and when the user clicks ok to install the updates, it usually asks for the root or system administrator's password to authorize the update. However, it is strange to see in Fedora 22 that no such security is available. Any normal user could easily install the updates that include kernel, X11 and all system related installs without the need for the system administrator. This might disrupt or falsify if some settings are done by the system administrator. Is this bug going to be fixed or the Fedora community is going more toward Microsoft Windows OS like theme of installing the updates without the need for the system administrator. I hope that this is not the future of Fedora. Fedora is unique in its way and I see that it is adopting more like Microsoft Windows display theme including menus. Thanks Nethaji

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Evolution and Fedora 21 or 22 Kernel 3.19 and above
by Nethaji 19 May '15

19 May '15

Hello, I use Evolution mail client and when I updated from Fedora 20 to 21 or did a fresh install of Fedora 21 workstation, I have problem with evolution restoring my backup file or reading local emails previously saved on the system. The folders are mounted from a remote location in cifs format using either autofs or fstab. There are two issues with this. 1. It mounts the remote path and displays the folder to be 0 size, but normally it shows 4096 for a directory. When I do 'ls -i' the inodes are shown properly. 2. The files prior to update or installation in these folders, especially evolution are not accessible even through 'vi' after mount the file system on a client. 3. I tested this with Debian and Ubuntu (the latest available OS for both) and see the same result, except for Ubuntu, which in evolution opens the saved emails properly. I think the problem is with the kernel version from 3.19.5-200.fc21.i686 +PAE, ignore PAE. It is the same with a non-PAE kernel. I tested on the following kernels and to that I put the commands that worked. Kernel - 3.19.5-200.fc21.i686+PAE (Fedora 21) Kernal - 4.0.0 or 4.0.1 or 4.0.2 (Fedora 22) Kernel - 2.6.32-358.23.2.el6.x86_64 (Redhat Enterprise Linux 6) Kernel - 3.2.0-4-486 (Debian) Kernel - 3.16.0-30-generic (Ubuntu 14.04 LTS) Evolution version - Ubuntu: 3.10, Fedora21: 3.12 Attached with this email are two snapshots of email display from Ubuntu and Fedora 21. The same effect is seen in Fedora 22. While Ubuntu can display the locally saved email, Fedora says permission denied or no such file or directory. The text file 'FedoraCIFSshare.txt' is a summary of what I get when I 'vi' or 'cat' on the saved emails. When I do the same in Ubuntu, Enterprise Linux or Debian, I can open the files using both the email client and text editors. This problem does not even let me to save any new mails into these folders (i.e. locally) as they cannot be seen again. This is the same for Drafts too. This only happens on a CIFS mounted folders and not on local folders (the folders on the system's harddrive). The cifs share is mounted using the command or using autofs mount -t cifs //server/home /home/user -o username=myname The same command is used in Debian, Ubuntu and Enterprise linux. Everything works as expected except on Fedora 21 and Fedora 22. Even on Fedora 20 with kernel 3.19 Thanks Nethaji

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Council Engineering update
by Josh Boyer 18 May '15

18 May '15

Hi Workstation WG, As part of the on-going Council updates, I'm organizing a Fedora Engineering update. This includes the various WGs, rel-eng, infrastructure, and a few others. The idea behind this is to give a brief update of the work your group is doing towards the F23 and F24 releases. Think of this as a 5-10 minute "lightning talk" of the highlights you want to see in those releases. The meeting is July 7th. It would be excellent if you could have a volunteer present the update for your group and stay around to answer any questions. Worst case, please gather the information and send it to me and I can do the overview, but representation from the group is clearly preferred. If you have questions, please let me know. The idea and format are somewhat new, so we'll work through this as best we can. josh

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hibernation unsupported by installer, but is default in gnome
by Chris Murphy 15 May '15

15 May '15

This combination is sufficiently incongruent to be utterly broken, and therefore looks a likely blocker in my opinion. a. It's the default behavior, rather than power off, when battery power is critical https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1141345 b. Either systemd or the kernel isn't seeing the hibernation image, or isn't putting the system into hibernation mode, because it just reboots when the user hits the power button trying to resume. Therefore resume doesn't actually happen. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1199708 c. The installer doesn't configure systems for hibernation out of the box. Until b and c are addressed, the simple fix is to address bug a. -- Chris Murphy

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2015-05-18 @ 1600 UTC Fedora Blocker Review Meeting
by Adam Williamson 15 May '15

15 May '15

# F22 Blocker Review meeting # Date: 2015-05-18 # Time: 1600 UTC # Location: #fedora-blocker-review on irc.freenode.net Time for blocker review once more on Monday! I will not be around to run the meeting as I'm on vacation; roshi will likely be running it. This is the final scheduled blocker review meeting before Go/No-Go, so please make sure any bugs you want discussed are nominated in time. As I write this, there are 5 proposed blockers and 1 proposed freeze exception. We'll be evaluating these bugs to see if they violate any of the Release Criteria and warrant the blocking of a release if they're not fixed. Information on the release criteria for F22 can be found on the wiki [0]. For more information about the Blocker and Freeze exception process, check out these links: - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_freeze_exception_bug_process And for those of you who are curious how a Blocker Review Meeting works - or how it's supposed to go and you want to run one - check out the SOP on the wiki: - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting Have a good weekend and see you Monday! [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Criteria -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Official Fedora Survey 2015
by Diogo Campos 15 May '15

15 May '15

I have seen things like these recently: 1- https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2015/05/07/summary-of-fedora-workstation-fee… 2- https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2015-April/011897.html 3- https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2015-April/011860.html 4- http://otroblogdegnu-linux.blogspot.com.br/2015/05/do-you-want-gnome-tweak-… 5- Someone (Mathew Miller?) saying that Fedora should have something like this: http://blog.brackets.io/2015/03/27/introducing-brackets-health-report/ (these are my words, can not find the original message). So, I was wondering... There is interest in a "Official Fedora Survey 2015" thing? Because I can (and I want to) do something about it. I am thinking in something to expose the concrete needs/difficulties/desires from real users (especially from those who care) about Fedora (and Linuxes, and OSes) in a useful, understandable, and more precise way. If yes, please, say it, so I can show/catch ideas and work on a demo. And, if not, please, say it too, because I kinda don't want to waste my time on an useless thing. Thanks.

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Fedora Health Report
by Diogo Campos 15 May '15

15 May '15

Hi again. You've probably seen this: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2015-May/012069.html But we have to agree that, if useful, its usefulness is a bit limited. I also said in that e-mail, that there is mentions of desire (by someone, somewhere - can't remember, sorry) of a Fedora equivalent of this: http://blog.brackets.io/2015/03/27/introducing-brackets-health-report/ (my words). But I ignored this possibility, at first, because I thought that it was something way out of my skills. Turns out I realized that I know a bit of Node.js :P So, now, I'm kinda interested in making this too, but I am not really sure of how to do it :/ Probably the basic stuff can be covered by this: https://nodejs.org/api/os.html But beyond that, especially about (possible) Fedora specific details (like SELinux), I'm totally lost. So, in this e-mail, I am asking for confirmation that there is interest on this, and also asking for a bit of (general) technical advice. Could someone kindly provide me any of these?

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Re: Testing request: gdm-on-Wayland on hybrid graphics laptops (esp. Macbooks)
by Adam Williamson 15 May '15

15 May '15

On Thu, 2015-05-14 at 16:17 -0400, Paul Wouters wrote: > I had gdm issues on my f19 to f22beta upgrade too. Startx worked. > Worse, the lock screen cannot unlock. Claims wrong passwd. Killing > Xorg just led to restarted locked screen. Only way out was init 1 Thanks for the report, but I'd like to keep things precise and clear so we don't confuse ourselves: is this a system with dual GPUs? When you say 'GDM issues', do you have the same symptom as Chris (boot to a black screen)? If you edit /etc/gdm/custom.conf and uncomment the line: #WaylandEnable=false and reboot, does it start working? Thanks! (same questions for all testers...) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Testing request: gdm-on-Wayland on hybrid graphics laptops (esp. Macbooks)
by Adam Williamson 15 May '15

15 May '15

Hi folks! We have a somewhat-worrying proposed blocker for F22: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1218787 it appears that after a successful installation of Workstation on the affected system, GDM-on-Wayland fails to start correctly but also does not fall through (as it should) to GDM-on-X, leaving the user with a black screen and no obvious way to proceed. This is obviously a bad bug, but so far it has only been observed on one test system (a Macbook Pro 8,2) by one tester. A few other testers have tried to reproduce on other hybrid graphics systems, but have not been able to. It would be very helpful to get some more data here. If anyone has a hybrid graphics laptop and can spare some space (or perhaps attach an external drive) for a test F22 install, can you please try installing F22 Workstation TC3 and creating a user: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/22_TC3/Workstation/x86_64/iso/Fe… Live-Workstation-x86_64-22-TC3.iso then boot the installed system, and see if GDM appears correctly? Thanks. Note there is a different bug which causes GDM-on-Wayland to flicker on some hardware: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1218688 that's something different, and is a bit further along in the diagnosis/fix process, so we probably don't need further reports of that one (though once a fix arrives, it'd be good to have folks test it). If you find you seem to be affected by the bug, please add your details to the report. If you test and find you're *not* affected by the bug - you see GDM properly - please reply to one of the mailing lists, so we can get some idea of the proportions of affected vs. non-affected testers. Thanks a lot for your help, folks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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should we always install updates by default at each shut down?
by Kalev Lember 14 May '15

14 May '15

Hi all, kparal pointed out on IRC today that in F22, gnome-shell's shutdown dialog has the "Install pending updates" check box always checked. I knew that we hadn't deliberately changed the default, so I did some digging. It turned out to be a fallout from https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit/commit/0a7b6d67b98cd06cabe03176c02db8… that regressed the PackageKit DBus API that gnome-shell uses, basically flipping the default from "do not install updates by default" to "reboot and install updates". sgallagh asked me to seek guidance on the list here: Is it something that we should fix before the F22 release and flip the default back so that when someone hurriedly clicks through the shut down dialog, they don't accidentally go into a 15-minute offline update applying mode? -- Thanks, Kalev

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Re: Fixing express install for F23
by Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) 14 May '15

14 May '15

Hi Paul, Thanks for bringing this up. > One way to fix that would be to bring them back -- essentially go back > to producing the images we offered before. That doesn't mean we need > to advertise them on the website, though. I think we do need to advertise them. Otherwise I don't see how else are users supposed to find them. If we only advertise live media for workstation, most users will simply download and try that and they'd be annoyed by lack of express installation option for an OS on which they are likely using Boxes. Besides, I really don't see a good use case for not advertising these media. As I pointed out to Christian yesterday, we have plenty of free space on the right side here for just one more ISO link: https://getfedora.org/en_GB/workstation/prerelease/ in comparison the server's download page looks more complete: https://getfedora.org/en_GB/server/prerelease/ > What are the other alternatives for fixing? As you can see on the discussion on the bug you linked in your mail, I was told that it'd be good if Boxes/libosinfo could support express install through netiso. I've spend quite a lot of hours getting that to work[1]. The final set of patches that will actually make it work are pending review on libosinfo list. However we still have some issues that I can't fix on my end: 1. There is still no plan to advertise an F22 workstation or generic netinstaller. 2. Live media (that is advertised) does not support kickstar AFAIKt: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=947376 . This isn't really an issue if #1 is resolved. -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) ________________________________________ Befriend GNOME: http://www.gnome.org/friends/ [1] That included adding new mechanism in libosinfo to identify media through volume-size since we won't even ensure unique volume IDs on every ISO, a standard good practice even followed by certain big proprietary companies famous for not following standards (Yes, I'm ranting but I've been very patient about this until now).

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The “Windows Just Works” BIG fallacy
by Diogo Campos 14 May '15

14 May '15

Hi. Yes, again. In this e-mail I just want to share a tiny bit of my personal experience with people and computers and operating systems. It applies to Windows XP and, especially, Windows 7. I don't know about Windows 8; haven't used; Nor OS X. FIRST THINGS FIRST: Normal people don't know how to install Windows. Period. Unless there is hardware coming with Fedora pre-installed, don't even dream about “compete with” or “compare” a pre-installed Windows with a Fedora that you have do download(!), boot(!) and install. Otherwise, the best you can try is to create a DAMN EASY installer and pray. And by “damn easy” I'm talking about a screen to select the language (or detect it automatically, somehow, and skip this step) and another screen with two big buttons saying “Erase everything and Install Fedora ” and “Install Fedora alongside existing OS and data”. No partitioning, ever (or, at least, let it hidden behind a tiny something); choose a filesystem, choose a layout, and make it work (great) on every workstation's disk scenarios out there. Prefer to expose the other needed steps (initial setup) after the system is already on the disk, so the “adventurer”, if scared, can't give up anymore. In another words: “Install Fedora” should be compared to “Install Windows”; “Pre-installed Windows” should be compared to “Pre-installed Fedora”. Also, really important, is to perceive that “someone installed Windows/Fedora on my computer” is way more common that “I installed Windows/Fedora on my computer”. THE FALLACY: Respecting the previous reasoning, never compare “customized Windows” with “stock Fedora”. So, below, I will compare “stock Windows” with “stock Fedora” (by “stock” I mean freshly installed from a official media; by “customized” I mean “stock” plus additional external work from someone - be individual, company, vendor, etc). # Codecs = MP3, AAC, H.264, H.265, Vorbis, Opus, VP8, VP9. Windows: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, No, No, No, No. Fedora: No, No, No, No, Yes, Yes, Yes,Yes. Conclusion: analyzing the 8 (4 audio, 4 video) current big codecs on the market, we have a tie! Is also worth noting that installing additional codecs on Windows is of a equivalent pain that on Fedora. # Office Stuff = xls(x), doc(x), ppt(x), ods, odt, odp. Windows: No, No, No, No, No, No. Fedora: Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes. Conclusion: in (Microsoft) Windows, even to open files from another Microsoft product (Office), you can't without additional work from you (or someone else). # Miscellaneous = PDF, torrent, common archives. Windows: No(!), No, No. Fedora: Yes, Yes(?), Yes (except RAR, for no reason). Conclusion: WTF Windows? No PDF?! # Graphic Cards = Intel, AMD, Nvidia. Windows: No, No, No. Fedora: Yes, Yes, Yes. Conclusion: Oh, boy! Windows without video drivers is pure garbage! You have to, at minimum, select to install the driver on Windows Update to have 2D (and 3D) acceleration! Sometimes even to have the correct resolution! On other hand, Fedora comes with all these preinstalled! Yay! # Other Hardware (drivers). Windows: maybe. Fedora: maybe. Conclusion: have luck, or have fun looking for drivers. On both systems. FINAL THOUGHTS: Fedora isn't the perfect OS. But Windows also isn't. A bunch of reasons in favor of Windows aren't technical merits. Maybe commercial, or social; but not technical. Fedora can do better, sure. And it will. Especially if it doesn't fall in such misconceptions. This also highlight the importance of the “pre-installed” (or “just works”) concept. Be OSes, apps, codecs, drivers, or whatever. As I showed to you, Windows without the “pre-installed” concept, simply doesn't shine at all. So, Fedora have to keep this always in mind: normal people don't know how to “install” things. I don't expect this to be agreed or disagreed. I just wanted to share a bit of my experience on the role of “IT guy” that I do to some normal people. Hope it helps, somewhat. Thanks.

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Re: The “Windows Just Works” BIG fallacy
by Chris Murphy 14 May '15

14 May '15

re: codecs. So I had this experience the other day, mp4, and totem (Videos) gives me some message about how some codec plugins are missing. dnf search doesn't find them, adding RPM fusion and searching doesn't find them, I do google searches and I run into the Internet Doesn't Work (TM), or more specifically Google Search sucks because it doesn't present relevant results in the first two pages. So I gave up and booted OS X. re: document formats. I think it's a big pro to point out LibreOffice is included and provides both Office document format support, and *easily* enables the user to get out of that b.s. dependency. Closed document formats really piss me off, much more than closed proprietary codecs. Yay Document Liberation Project! re: Windows vs Fedora installation. First there are two kinds of Windows installations: -- official media from Microsoft offers a very straightforward installer that starts out with two options Upgrade and Custom. Neither suggests new installation, so that's confusing but there are only two paths you pick on and get it wrong and you pick the other option next time - not difficult. It's also uncommon, because this method is designed mainly for upgrades, not new installations. -- OEM recovery partition. In Windows 8 the options are reset (obliterate all data and reinstall the OS), and refresh (keep user data, but revert to a clean unupdated OS and new settings). This is very similar to how mobile devices reset. And similar to the systemd folks' idea of stateless systems. And the direction I think installs and resets on Fedora ought to go in, perhaps with a couple points of additional granularity. OS X's installer is point and shoot, it offers essentially no options. Apple and Microsoft don't spend squat on their installers. They're both largely unchanged in over a decade. I've never run into a bug with either of them. User confusion is minimized by the fact there are two or zero options. They definitely never ever crash. Anaconda is just a pile of feature sprawl and it's completely normal and understandable something that complicated is going to have x% of presentable bugs and regressions - and it does. Three years after newui, it still dominates blocker bugs. I consider it a misallocation of resources, but lovely that life is, it's not my decision or I'd rip out all of custom partitioning and marry it with blivet-gui. [1] re: graphics cards. This is terrible on Linux. It's not Fedora's fault. Regressions, dual-GPU suckage, crap power management, on and on. It's just awful, and I don't use Fedora when I'm on the road because of this - the battery life is just unworkable. OS X has completely seamless integrated and discrete graphics switching totally figured out, for years now. Of course, they cheat, controlling drivers and hardware, and sign all the super secret NDAs to have this functionality (because of course the world would end fucking tomorrow if anyone knew the super secret shit). [1] My idea installation scenario for Fedora Workstation in another dimension, is live media based on a Btrfs seed device, the user boots the media, and a minimal UI helps them add a drive (partition) and configure some things, including G-I-S starting, and then the system is usable. Behind the scenes, the defined drive is added to the seed device, the seed device is removed, all data on the live media is migrated to the user defined device and then the live media is ejectable. No reboot required. Between ostree, or revised offline updates atomically updating Btrfs snapshots, or Btrfs send/receive, both the double boot of current offline updates as well as even any compulsory reboot can be eliminated. -- Chris Murphy

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