Hi
What are the current thoughts on
https://launchpad.net/simple-scan
Is this something useful for Fedora Desktop?
Rahul
On Thu, 2010-03-04 at 13:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
What are the current thoughts on
https://launchpad.net/simple-scan
Is this something useful for Fedora Desktop?
I was looking at the LWN article about it. It looks nice, but doesn't integrate in apps like GIMP, and seem to only be able to do a full scan (instead of doing a draft scan, allow you to crop and then scanning for real).
I guess I need to order a scanner and test it for real.
Cheers
On Thu, 2010-03-04 at 14:40 +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Thu, 2010-03-04 at 13:57 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
What are the current thoughts on
https://launchpad.net/simple-scan
Is this something useful for Fedora Desktop?
I was looking at the LWN article about it. It looks nice, but doesn't integrate in apps like GIMP, and seem to only be able to do a full scan (instead of doing a draft scan, allow you to crop and then scanning for real).
I guess I need to order a scanner and test it for real.
I any case, the first step is to get it into Fedora, so we can evaluate it. If anybody wants to look into doing that, I'd be happy to do a review.
Matthias
On 03/04/2010 09:05 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I any case, the first step is to get it into Fedora, so we can evaluate it. If anybody wants to look into doing that, I'd be happy to do a review.
Here you go
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=570876
Rahul
On 03/04/2010 09:05 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I any case, the first step is to get it into Fedora, so we can evaluate it. If anybody wants to look into doing that, I'd be happy to do a review.
Thanks Matthias Clasen for the review. If folks here are interested in testing it, it has now been built for Rawhide and Fedora 13 (updates-testing repo). Let me know what's the next step in having it by default in Fedora 13.
Rahul
On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 17:55 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Thanks Matthias Clasen for the review. If folks here are interested in testing it, it has now been built for Rawhide and Fedora 13 (updates-testing repo). Let me know what's the next step in having it by default in Fedora 13.
So, I took some time today to actually play with simple-scan some today, with some of the scanners we have here in the office. While this tool shows some promise, it still has some way to go before it can claim to be _the_ simple scanning UI. I think it is good enough to include it in the desktop spin anyway, since we don't have any scanning solution right now...
Here are some of the things I've noticed:
- First impression: The initial screen with which it comes up is bad, just an empty paper outline. It should probably say something like 'Searching for connected scanners...' in an infobar with a little spinner. And the 'no scanners found' message would also be much nicer in an infobar embedded in the main window instead of a separate dialog.
- The toolbar: duplicating every single action that is available in the menus is not the best toolbar design. The 'Stop' button is sensitive even if no scan is in progress. Worse, if a scan _is_ in progress, the 'Stop' button does not stop it. The scan button is sensitive even if no scanner is connected or if the scanner is connected, but no original has been inserted. If we can detect the 'no originals' condition, that would be good to present somehow in the UI. The scanner itself certainly notices it, since it says so in its display.
- The default for the scan action should probably be 'scan all pages', not 'scan a single page'.
- The document area: The sizing of the paper outline is odd, there is no way to make it wider, but it grows higher and higher as I resize the window. When scanning multiple pages, the document view places the pages horizontally. It would be much better to strive for a document view that closely resembles evince's. We are scanning documents, after all, and evince is the document viewer. IMO, the duplication should even include the thumbnail sidebar, that would be a very nice way to navigate a multi-page scan. The outline that indicates the selected page would be better if it took the selection color from the theme instead of hardcoding red.
- The tools: The cropping tool interaction is somewhat wierd. I would recommend taking a look at shotwells crop tool, which is nice. A clone of it can readily be stolen from my accountsdialog. There seems to be no way to get out of the crop mode again, after clicking the scissors icon. The crop area should probably have a reasonable minimum size, since it is impossible to click it after shrinking it to 1x1 by accident... One missing tool is rearranging the sequence.
- On saving: 'New' and 'Quit' both dump my unsaved scans without warning, which is not nice. The tool should probably save its internal state anyway, so I don't loose all the scans when it crashes. That would also help with the memory consumption, since you then don't have to keep all scans in memory at full resolution.
Matthias
On Wed, 2010-03-10 at 17:01 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 17:55 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Thanks Matthias Clasen for the review. If folks here are interested in testing it, it has now been built for Rawhide and Fedora 13 (updates-testing repo). Let me know what's the next step in having it by default in Fedora 13.
So, I took some time today to actually play with simple-scan some today, with some of the scanners we have here in the office. While this tool shows some promise, it still has some way to go before it can claim to be _the_ simple scanning UI. I think it is good enough to include it in the desktop spin anyway, since we don't have any scanning solution right now...
<snip>
I would also advise to get a copy of "The inmates are running the asylum" and reading the chapter about the scanning tool Alan Cooper wrote.
simple-scan should save all the scan to the disk, in full, so that different portions can be exported to different apps, similar to the way Cheese keeps all the pictures that were taken.
Cheers
Reviving this thread from the grave:
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/04/2010 09:05 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I any case, the first step is to get it into Fedora, so we can evaluate it. If anybody wants to look into doing that, I'd be happy to do a review.
Thanks Matthias Clasen for the review. Â If folks here are interested in testing it, it has now been built for Rawhide and Fedora 13 (updates-testing repo). Â Let me know what's the next step in having it by default in Fedora 13.
Should this replace xsane or not?
On 23 March 2010 17:13, Colin Walters walters@verbum.org wrote:
Should this replace xsane or not?
Yes, please. I've sent the author a patch upstream to add color management support, which was impossible to do sanely using xsane.
Richard.
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 March 2010 17:13, Colin Walters walters@verbum.org wrote:
Should this replace xsane or not?
Yes, please. I've sent the author a patch upstream to add color management support, which was impossible to do sanely using xsane.
Done, thanks.
http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=comps.git;a=commit;h=b99407050d6c167fcdbe...
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 10:12 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 March 2010 17:13, Colin Walters walters@verbum.org wrote:
Should this replace xsane or not?
Yes, please. I've sent the author a patch upstream to add color management support, which was impossible to do sanely using xsane.
Done, thanks.
http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=comps.git;a=commit;h=b99407050d6c167fcdbe...
No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image manipulation apps like gimp.
I know that the XSane UI is rather baroque, and replacing the default scanning app with simple-scan for your proverbial Aunt Tilly is sensible. But for some use cases like those mentioned above, or e.g. scanning transparents where you don't really get around tweaking gazillions of parameters (exposure, focus, gamma, which frame of the film you want to have scanned...) if you want decent results, having a tool that has all these controls is essential.
Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that hard.
(*): http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2008-October/004481.html http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2009-July/005001.html
Nils
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Nils Philippsen nils@redhat.com wrote:
Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that hard.
Good point Nils, apologies for that. I'm a bit pressed here trying to sort out the image and unify the kickstart and comps. xsane was one of the random exclusions.
We could just make this change for F14 or not make it at all yet; any other opinions?
One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit, anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the users.
Nils
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:25 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit, anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the users.
This is a new face for the pkgdb that will be aimed at users. As for yum/pk integration: currently, it just gives you rpms to download, from what I can see, but we certainly hope to make it use the PK browser plugin, for more seamless integration.
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:25 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:18 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
One thing I wanted to point out in terms of optional comps is that I feel it's less important/relevant now that the pkgdb UI is coming up:
Is that integrated into our package management stuff (yum, PackageKit, anaconda) somehow? AIUI, pkgdb is primarily for the maintainers, not the users.
This is a new face for the pkgdb that will be aimed at users. As for yum/pk integration: currently, it just gives you rpms to download, from what I can see, but we certainly hope to make it use the PK browser plugin, for more seamless integration.
Ah, so the intention is to get it integrated into the tools, but it's not quite there yet. Is this F-14 material or later?
Nils
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:14 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Nils Philippsen nils@redhat.com wrote:
Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that hard.
Good point Nils, apologies for that.
Accepted and sorry for harsh words :-).
I'm a bit pressed here trying to sort out the image and unify the kickstart and comps. xsane was one of the random exclusions.
We could just make this change for F14 or not make it at all yet; any other opinions?
Mind, I'm not against relegating xsane to not being the default, it is just to complicated for casual users.
As I said, I've made xsane an optional package and xsane-gimp a conditional based on gimp in comps. This way people that want to have the stand-alone xsane can choose to do so in the installer and people that choose gimp get the plugin automatically. For me that's sufficient, I don't think we need to wait until F-14 for that.
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
Thanks, Nils
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:22 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
I just found that simple-scan is mentioned already in the desktop beat. Do you think it would be worthwhile to mention that the xsane (the app and the GIMP plugin) is still available for those that need/want it?
Nils
On 03/25/2010 07:17 PM, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:22 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
I just found that simple-scan is mentioned already in the desktop beat. Do you think it would be worthwhile to mention that the xsane (the app and the GIMP plugin) is still available for those that need/want it?
Sure. Feel free to add a note.
Rahul
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 19:55 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 03/25/2010 07:17 PM, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:22 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
I just found that simple-scan is mentioned already in the desktop beat. Do you think it would be worthwhile to mention that the xsane (the app and the GIMP plugin) is still available for those that need/want it?
Sure. Feel free to add a note.
Done.
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 14:47 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 09:22 +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
I just found that simple-scan is mentioned already in the desktop beat. Do you think it would be worthwhile to mention that the xsane (the app and the GIMP plugin) is still available for those that need/want it?
Can't hurt. Go for it.
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 09:22:38AM +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 13:14 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Nils Philippsen nils@redhat.com wrote:
Completely removing xsane/xsane-gimp from comps was totally uncalled for, I've added xsane again as optional and xsane-gimp conditional on gimp. Not seeking my input before doing so was just bad style, I've repeatedly asked on this list(*) to involve out-of-team-maintainers if you intend to do something to their components. It's really not that hard.
Good point Nils, apologies for that.
Accepted and sorry for harsh words :-).
I'm a bit pressed here trying to sort out the image and unify the kickstart and comps. xsane was one of the random exclusions.
We could just make this change for F14 or not make it at all yet; any other opinions?
Mind, I'm not against relegating xsane to not being the default, it is just to complicated for casual users.
As I said, I've made xsane an optional package and xsane-gimp a conditional based on gimp in comps. This way people that want to have the stand-alone xsane can choose to do so in the installer and people that choose gimp get the plugin automatically. For me that's sufficient, I don't think we need to wait until F-14 for that.
I'd ask of you to put something in the release notes, though, so people don't get surprised if they don't get xsane per default anymore when selecting the Graphics group.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Desktop_Beat#Simple_Scan_scanni...
There's some information there now about Simple Scan. If anyone wants to add to that, please do it as a separate paragraph -- that helps the Docs team make things easier for the Translation teams.
On 24 March 2010 17:04, Nils Philippsen nils@redhat.com wrote:
No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image manipulation apps like gimp.
No, it's not a full featured scanning application. It's _simple_ scan, and works a lot better than xsane for me, and I'm certainly not Aunt Tilly.
Richard.
On Wed, 2010-03-24 at 21:11 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
On 24 March 2010 17:04, Nils Philippsen nils@redhat.com wrote:
No shit Sherlock. Did you for one second think about that simple-scan is far from being an xsane replacement? I doubt that simple-scan would let you scan&fax and I'd be most surprised if it were integrated into image manipulation apps like gimp.
No, it's not a full featured scanning application. It's _simple_ scan, and works a lot better than xsane for me, and I'm certainly not Aunt Tilly.
I fully agree to that (surprised?). If Colin hadn't removed xsane* from comps altogether I wouldn't have complained (and that's been amended), as I'm totally d'accord with casual users getting a simple to use scanning application. I would even say that people who need the versatility that xsane offers now deserve a better UI than what it currently has. Unfortunately nobody has gotten around to pimping xsane accordingly or writing a replacement yet, at least in FOSS circles.
Nils
desktop@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org
-
Bastien Nocera -
Colin Walters -
Matthias Clasen -
Nils Philippsen -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram -
Richard Hughes