Hey,
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Thanks, Debarshi
A very good idea, from my side.
----- Original Message -----
Hey,
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Thanks, Debarshi -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 13:19 +0000, Debarshi Ray wrote:
Hey,
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Nothing against adding the app per-se but the rationale seems a bit troublesome.
Perhaps the solution here is to allow external GOA providers and make such provider a dependency of the maps app?
Going further, I fail to see how foursquare or maps itself brings value to the default install (just to clarify, I'm not assuming it doesn't, I just don't see it myself).
Thanks, Debarshi -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 13:19 +0000, Debarshi Ray wrote:
Hey,
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Nothing against adding the app per-se but the rationale seems a bit troublesome.
Perhaps the solution here is to allow external GOA providers and make such provider a dependency of the maps app?
Going further, I fail to see how foursquare or maps itself brings value to the default install (just to clarify, I'm not assuming it doesn't, I just don't see it myself).
If we don't have Maps installed, there's a Foursquare provider in GOA that does nothing out of the box (ditto for the check-in toggle for Facebook, FWIW, but at least it can also do Photos).
As long as there's a way to remove it, since I am not a member of either Facebook or Foursquare. If it can't be removed I oppose its inclusion - we're getting dangerously close to what Microsoft did with Internet Explorer in Windows 95.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 13:19 +0000, Debarshi Ray wrote:
Hey,
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Nothing against adding the app per-se but the rationale seems a bit troublesome.
Perhaps the solution here is to allow external GOA providers and make such provider a dependency of the maps app?
Going further, I fail to see how foursquare or maps itself brings value to the default install (just to clarify, I'm not assuming it doesn't, I just don't see it myself).
If we don't have Maps installed, there's a Foursquare provider in GOA that does nothing out of the box (ditto for the check-in toggle for Facebook, FWIW, but at least it can also do Photos). -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
Hey,
I will try to reply at the risk of taking this thread on a wild tangent.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 04:49:21PM +0000, Alberto Ruiz wrote:
Perhaps the solution here is to allow external GOA providers and make such provider a dependency of the maps app?
That quickly falls apart if a provider offers multiple services and an application corresponding to one of them is missing.
We already explored the option of splitting the providers into loadable modules that can then go into separate sub-packages [1]. I wrote the code for that, but, eventually, Ray Strode convinced me that it is a bad idea.
And, I definitely don't want out-of-tree external providers. Offering a stable plug-in API is too much trouble for very little gain. Third-party application developers have expressed concerns about losing their own branding if they use GNOME's application keys, and it will be ugly to have multiple providers show up for the same service but using different keys.
There is a lot to be improved in the way applications interact with online accounts and providers, but I don't think we have the necessary infrastructure to do it, yet. eg., currently there is no way to reliably figure out which applications might be using an account. Once we have that then we could probably use it to show or hide the providers depending on what is present on the system. I can imagine a built-in list of known GNOME applications inside g-o-a, and a way for an application to express its interest in a certain provider.
But all that is vaporware at the moment, and I don't want to get into designing something before the technical foundations are ready.
To be honest, our online accounts story is still in its infancy. We are still far from achieving a ChromeOS like experience. We are slowly getting there, and once we are a bit further down that road, we can figure out a story for third-party developers / applications. We need a little more maturity before we can do that.
Cheers, Rishi
Alberto Ruiz aruiz@redhat.com wrote: ...
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Nothing against adding the app per-se but the rationale seems a bit troublesome.
One part of the rationale, perhaps. I agree that "because we have a GOA account for it" is a bit backwards.
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
Allan
On 2015-03-26 19:40, Allan Day wrote:
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
Btw, seems the two big desktop OSes; OSX and Windows 10 both come with Maps apps build it these days.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-maps https://www.apple.com/osx/all-features/#maps
- Andreas
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Andreas Nilsson lists@andreasn.se wrote:
On 2015-03-26 19:40, Allan Day wrote:
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
Btw, seems the two big desktop OSes; OSX and Windows 10 both come with Maps apps build it these days.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-maps https://www.apple.com/osx/all-features/#maps
- Andreas
Don't get me started on Windows 10 as a productivity workstation. ;-)
I'm fine with having maps *available*. I'm *not* fine with having it installed by default and having to remove it or de-configure it. For that matter I feel the same way about Weather - I just haven't gone to the trouble of configuring it out / removing it. Heck, it's only been since midway of the F21 cycle that I haven't removed Boxes after an install. ;-)
On 2015-03-26 22:43, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
I'm fine with having maps *available*. I'm *not* fine with having it installed by default and having to remove it or de-configure it.
I would probably be personally OK both if it was and wasn't installed by default, so I'm not really trying to push in either direction. I'm just one user after all. However, I did want to highlight that a map application is something that comes with other OSes by default. - Andreas
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hi I'm not understanding the contension here. If you don't want maps, simply don't use it. You don't have to configure it, and you can turn off location services in the privacy settings, rendering it mostly useless. If that isn't enough for you, you can simply remove it. I'm actually not sure what maps is supposed to do, I assume it's supposed to be a kind of google maps replacement, but as I neither use google maps nor have a gps I don't need maps. But I don't object to having it installed by default. After all, if a user has to install too many applications by default they will eventually complain that fedora should have these installed and "insert distro here" has them, etc. Codecs I completely understand, taht's a sticky legal issue that probably won't go away soon, but maps ... I just don't understand why people are objecting to it. Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux
Andreas Nilsson wrote:
On 2015-03-26 22:43, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
I'm fine with having maps *available*. I'm *not* fine with having it installed by default and having to remove it or de-configure it.
I would probably be personally OK both if it was and wasn't installed by default, so I'm not really trying to push in either direction. I'm just one user after all. However, I did want to highlight that a map application is something that comes with other OSes by default. - Andreas
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Andreas Nilsson lists@andreasn.se wrote:
However, I did want to highlight that a map application is something that comes with other OSes by default.
Yeah I think it's a reasonable comparison. I can't explain why but I never use Maps on OS X even though it performs way better than google maps in a browser. I think because it's not in my Dock. So I've just added it there, we'll see if I think about using a Map app rather than maps.google.com.
If it's included by default, it probably should have its application icons in the Activities overview set as a Favorite. On most displays, that app launcher space has plenty of room for more icons.
On 26/03/15 02:43 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
Don't get me started on Windows 10 as a productivity workstation. ;-) I'm fine with having maps *available*. I'm *not* fine with having it installed by default and having to remove it or de-configure it. For that matter I feel the same way about Weather - I just haven't gone to the trouble of configuring it out / removing it. Heck, it's only been since midway of the F21 cycle that I haven't removed Boxes after an install. ;-)
Design Suite spin which is based on Fedora Workstation has Boxes removed by default.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Andreas Nilsson lists@andreasn.se wrote:
On 2015-03-26 19:40, Allan Day wrote:
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
Btw, seems the two big desktop OSes; OSX and Windows 10 both come with Maps apps build it these days.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-maps https://www.apple.com/osx/all-features/#maps
I think it's a good idea, it's a good example of a good app, and it's useful, and it helps people avoid being dependent on Google Maps, and I think it behaves better than OSM does in a web browser - I think it's pulling data from OSM anyway though right?
As for removal, I think it should easily be removable, as are most applications, in gnome-software. Short of a drag and drop application model, that's about as easy as it gets.
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I'll second this. I can't use maps myself, it's not very accessible, but I'm certainly in favor of it being installed by default. Apologies if I'm wrong, but fedora has always wanted to showcase all of what gnome can do, and how can that be done if you don't include *all* of the gnome applications that come with the desktop?
Chris Murphy wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Andreas Nilsson lists@andreasn.se wrote:
On 2015-03-26 19:40, Allan Day wrote:
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
Btw, seems the two big desktop OSes; OSX and Windows 10 both come with Maps apps build it these days.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-maps https://www.apple.com/osx/all-features/#maps
I think it's a good idea, it's a good example of a good app, and it's useful, and it helps people avoid being dependent on Google Maps, and I think it behaves better than OSM does in a web browser
- I think it's pulling data from OSM anyway though right?
As for removal, I think it should easily be removable, as are most applications, in gnome-software. Short of a drag and drop application model, that's about as easy as it gets.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:57 PM, kendell clark coffeekingms@gmail.com wrote:
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I'll second this. I can't use maps myself, it's not very accessible, but I'm certainly in favor of it being installed by default. Apologies if I'm wrong, but fedora has always wanted to showcase all of what gnome can do, and how can that be done if you don't include *all* of the gnome applications that come with the desktop?
I'm pretty sure it was included in Fedora 19 or 20? When this thread started, my reaction was "oh yeah I wondered where it went?" (as I'm pretty much using only Fedora 22 these days).
On 2015-03-26 22:53, Chris Murphy wrote:
I think it's a good idea, it's a good example of a good app, and it's useful, and it helps people avoid being dependent on Google Maps, and I think it behaves better than OSM does in a web browser - I think it's pulling data from OSM anyway though right?
Yes, it's using OSM for the map itself and Graphhopper [1] for the routing. For figuring out the current location it's using the Mozilla Location Service [2]
1. https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper 2. https://location.services.mozilla.com/
- Andreas
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 7:40 PM, Allan Day allanpday@gmail.com wrote:
Alberto Ruiz aruiz@redhat.com wrote: ...
Allan and I would like to include gnome-maps in the default Workstation installation in Fedora 22. It is a nice little core GNOME application (like Clocks and Weather) that has come a long way. In GNOME 3.16 (ie. Fedora 22), it has Foursquare and Facebook integration for check-ins.
Having the application in the default installation would let us turn on the the Foursquare provider in gnome-online-accounts. Otherwise, users will be looking at an option that they can't use out of the box, which is bad.
Nothing against adding the app per-se but the rationale seems a bit troublesome.
One part of the rationale, perhaps. I agree that "because we have a GOA account for it" is a bit backwards.
That said, there are other good reasons to include Maps. It is a handy application to have in the default install, and useful as a utility, in the same way as a dictionary, Clocks or Weather. From GNOME 3.16, Maps has two-way integration with Contacts - you can search for contacts from within Maps, and Contacts includes small maps for addresses (which act as a link to Maps).
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
Well OTOH we have a proper software installer now so we do not have to install things by default for those reasons any more. It simply boils down to "would most user have installed it anyway?" ... and the answer here is "probably not" ... people would just have used google maps instead. But given fedora's mission it might make sense have it by default as a free alternative to google maps.
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:25:25PM +0100, drago01 wrote:
But given fedora's mission it might make sense have it by default as a free alternative to google maps.
+1 connect-decisions-to-mission :)
On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 09:43 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 11:25:25PM +0100, drago01 wrote:
But given fedora's mission it might make sense have it by default as a free alternative to google maps.
+1 connect-decisions-to-mission :)
That is actually a good argument. +1 :-)
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 18:40 +0000, Allan Day wrote:
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
One could argue that other apps that are not part of the default install might fit in that description. I'm still having a hard time to find a reason why a maps app specifically is important in the live image and the default install in particular.
Also, it'd be nice to know what's the cost here, how many and which deps and how much storage would we need in the image?
Allan
Alberto Ruiz aruiz@redhat.com wrote: ...
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
One could argue that other apps that are not part of the default install might fit in that description.
Maps is a core GNOME application. As such, it corresponds to the following definition [1]:
* Designed by the GNOME designers as a coherent suite * Part of the core GNOME experience * Designed to work cooperatively with each other * Tightly integrated with the core OS * Generically named
That's what makes it different from other applications.
The whole point of having core apps is that you have a good set of defaults, covering basic functions. One of the key things about these apps is that they are integrated with other (as Maps is with Contacts, but also Weather and Clocks), as well as the operating system (principally through online accounts at this stage). This kind of integration is only possible by having these apps be bundled as a part of the default experience.
I'm still having a hard time to find a reason why a maps app specifically is important in the live image and the default install in particular.
Maps are useful. They are a good thing to have integrated with the other core apps.
Allan
What would happen if Gnome decides to stop being Open Source? I believe we have too much reliance on one GUI developer, tunnel vision and "not invented here" syndrome.
Regards Leslie Mr. Leslie Satenstein Montréal Québec, Canada
From: Allan Day allanpday@gmail.com To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 6:08 AM Subject: Re: Request to include gnome-maps by default in F22
Alberto Ruiz aruiz@redhat.com wrote: ...
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
One could argue that other apps that are not part of the default install might fit in that description.
Maps is a core GNOME application. As such, it corresponds to the following definition [1]:
* Designed by the GNOME designers as a coherent suite * Part of the core GNOME experience * Designed to work cooperatively with each other * Tightly integrated with the core OS * Generically named
That's what makes it different from other applications.
The whole point of having core apps is that you have a good set of defaults, covering basic functions. One of the key things about these apps is that they are integrated with other (as Maps is with Contacts, but also Weather and Clocks), as well as the operating system (principally through online accounts at this stage). This kind of integration is only possible by having these apps be bundled as a part of the default experience.
I'm still having a hard time to find a reason why a maps app specifically is important in the live image and the default install in particular.
Maps are useful. They are a good thing to have integrated with the other core apps.
Allan
[1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/Apps
On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 12:41:30AM +0000, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
What would happen if Gnome decides to stop being Open Source? I
Changing the license of GNOME is incredibly unlikely given the project's governance model, and practically impossible given the licensing (where individual authors retain their copyrights).
----- Original Message -----
What would happen if Gnome decides to stop being Open Source? I believe we have too much reliance on one GUI developer, tunnel vision and "not invented here" syndrome.
GNOME will never be non-Open Source/non-Free Software. You'd better back up your other comments (insults?) with facts, or stop making comments like that on the list.
I really have no time for this sort of stupidity.
We could also start planning on what we would do if the Linux kernel decides to stop being Open Source, but it would probably not be the best use of our time.
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leslie S Satenstein" lsatenstein@yahoo.com To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org, "Allan Day" allanpday@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:41:30 PM Subject: Re: Request to include gnome-maps by default in F22
What would happen if Gnome decides to stop being Open Source? I believe we have too much reliance on one GUI developer, tunnel vision and "not invented here" syndrome.
Regards
Leslie Mr. Leslie Satenstein Montréal Québec, Canada
From: Allan Day allanpday@gmail.com To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 6:08 AM Subject: Re: Request to include gnome-maps by default in F22
Alberto Ruiz < aruiz@redhat.com > wrote: ...
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
One could argue that other apps that are not part of the default install might fit in that description.
Maps is a core GNOME application. As such, it corresponds to the following definition [1]:
- Designed by the GNOME designers as a coherent suite
- Part of the core GNOME experience
- Designed to work cooperatively with each other
- Tightly integrated with the core OS
- Generically named
That's what makes it different from other applications.
The whole point of having core apps is that you have a good set of defaults, covering basic functions. One of the key things about these apps is that they are integrated with other (as Maps is with Contacts, but also Weather and Clocks), as well as the operating system (principally through online accounts at this stage). This kind of integration is only possible by having these apps be bundled as a part of the default experience.
I'm still having a hard time to find a reason why a maps app specifically is important in the live image and the default install in particular.
Maps are useful. They are a good thing to have integrated with the other core apps.
Allan
[1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/Apps
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 18:40 +0000, Allan Day wrote:
So, key arguments: it's useful, in a good state, actively developed, and is increasingly integrated with the rest of the core utilities.
One could argue that other apps that are not part of the default install might fit in that description. I'm still having a hard time to find a reason why a maps app specifically is important in the live image and the default install in particular.
Please, do give a list.
Also, it'd be nice to know what's the cost here, how many and which deps and how much storage would we need in the image?
Moot point, gnome-maps has been in the default install since F20.
EOT
----- Original Message -----
On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 07:01 -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Moot point, gnome-maps has been in the default install since F20.
No it hasn't been, you installed it yourself at some point and forgot :)
That was the intent in: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=02a67a27e2580ed424ed8...
Except that we use the workstation-product group now.
I've fixed that for F22.
That's something that's been annoying me each time I look at comps. I would like the workstation environment group to include gnome-desktop, so we don't have to maintain two separate groups. (For F23, not F22.)
I'm +1 to Maps, since Allan's argument was persuasive.
On 03/27/2015 01:47 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
That's something that's been annoying me each time I look at comps. I would like the workstation environment group to include gnome-desktop, so we don't have to maintain two separate groups. (For F23, not F22.)
Yes, it's confusing and I'd like to get rid of the basically unused gnome-desktop comps group too.
So far, I haven't deleted the duplicate group because I believe some spins use it to display the "GNOME" category in their package installer for installing GNOME stuff.
On Mar 27, 2015 7:39 AM, "Kalev Lember" kalevlember@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/27/2015 01:47 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
That's something that's been annoying me each time I look at comps. I would like the workstation environment group to include gnome-desktop, so we don't have to maintain two separate groups. (For F23, not F22.)
Yes, it's confusing and I'd like to get rid of the basically unused gnome-desktop comps group too.
So far, I haven't deleted the duplicate group because I believe some spins use it to display the "GNOME" category in their package installer for installing GNOME stuff.
-- Kalev
--
Anecdotally, I've observed that a lot of folks install GNOME on not-Workstation installations. I hope you don't plan to remove the ability to do that with a package group; all the other DEs have one and it would be awkward and confusing to have GNOME missing from the list.
--Pete
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hi Would it be possible to make the gnome-desktop just point to the workstation group, and leave it up to the user/installer to pick what packages to install out of that group if the user doesn't want all of them? I'm still new here, so not sure if this is possible. Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux
Pete Travis wrote:
On Mar 27, 2015 7:39 AM, "Kalev Lember" kalevlember@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/27/2015 01:47 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
That's something that's been annoying me each time I look at comps. I would like the workstation environment group to include gnome-desktop, so we don't have to maintain two separate groups. (For F23, not F22.)
Yes, it's confusing and I'd like to get rid of the basically unused gnome-desktop comps group too.
So far, I haven't deleted the duplicate group because I believe some spins use it to display the "GNOME" category in their package installer for installing GNOME stuff.
-- Kalev
--
Anecdotally, I've observed that a lot of folks install GNOME on not-Workstation installations. I hope you don't plan to remove the ability to do that with a package group; all the other DEs have one and it would be awkward and confusing to have GNOME missing from the list.
--Pete
On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 15:27 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
Would it be possible to make the gnome-desktop just point to the workstation group, and leave it up to the user/installer to pick what packages to install out of that group if the user doesn't want all of them? I'm still new here, so not sure if this is possible.
We want installation to be smooth and easy, and that means not adding any potentially confusing or unnecessary steps, like asking which software to install. After installation, you can configure this however you want. :)
On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 14:39 +0100, Kalev Lember wrote:
On 03/27/2015 01:47 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
That's something that's been annoying me each time I look at comps. I would like the workstation environment group to include gnome-desktop, so we don't have to maintain two separate groups. (For F23, not F22.)
Yes, it's confusing and I'd like to get rid of the basically unused gnome-desktop comps group too.
So far, I haven't deleted the duplicate group because I believe some spins use it to display the "GNOME" category in their package installer for installing GNOME stuff.
Instead of deleting the gnome-desktop group, we could remove the GNOME stuff from the workstation-product group, and have workstation-product-environment depend on the gnome-desktop group. Then the workstation-product group will have stuff like the Qt packages, which doesn't have anything to do with GNOME. It's OK for it to be small, I think.
On 03/27/2015 01:23 PM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Fri, 2015-03-27 at 07:01 -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Moot point, gnome-maps has been in the default install since F20.
No it hasn't been, you installed it yourself at some point and forgot :)
That was the intent in: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=02a67a27e2580ed424ed8...
Except that we use the workstation-product group now.
I've fixed that for F22.
I believe the Workstation WG decided to drop gnome-maps from the default installation last cycle. I've forgotten the reasons, but maybe I can find the IRC discussion logs somewhere.
Kalev Lember kalevlember@gmail.com wrote: ...
I believe the Workstation WG decided to drop gnome-maps from the default installation last cycle. I've forgotten the reasons, but maybe I can find the IRC discussion logs somewhere.
I seem to recall having a conversation last cycle where we agreed to leave Maps out and wait 6 months for it to mature. I think that's happened now, which is one reason why I'm supporting its inclusion.
Allan
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 03:38:22PM +0000, Allan Day wrote:
Kalev Lember kalevlember@gmail.com wrote: ...
I believe the Workstation WG decided to drop gnome-maps from the default installation last cycle. I've forgotten the reasons, but maybe I can find the IRC discussion logs somewhere.
I seem to recall having a conversation last cycle where we agreed to leave Maps out and wait 6 months for it to mature. I think that's happened now, which is one reason why I'm supporting its inclusion.
That's my recollection, too. +1 to bringing back Maps.
On Mar 30, 2015 2:56 PM, "Paul W. Frields" stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 03:38:22PM +0000, Allan Day wrote:
Kalev Lember kalevlember@gmail.com wrote: ...
I believe the Workstation WG decided to drop gnome-maps from the
default
installation last cycle. I've forgotten the reasons, but maybe I can find the IRC discussion logs somewhere.
I seem to recall having a conversation last cycle where we agreed to leave Maps out and wait 6 months for it to mature. I think that's happened now, which is one reason why I'm supporting its inclusion.
That's my recollection, too. +1 to bringing back Maps.
-- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
I thought the point of gnome-software was to make apps discoverable without default installation. I believe that if you type "map" in the overview you get prompted to install maps, which is great. Having a "search provider" recognize an address typed in to the overview and then prompting a maps install would be great too (don't think it does this now). Ultimately, "intents" (a la android) would be cool for x-app installation/discovery (then contacts could ask for a map, or whatever).
However, I fail to see how including gnome-maps furthers the goal of workstation appealing to developers. As a result, and because it is quite discoverable) I would argue against inclusion by default.
Langdon
On Mon, 2015-03-30 at 19:04 -0400, White, Langdon wrote:
(snip)
I thought the point of gnome-software was to make apps discoverable without default installation. I believe that if you type "map" in the overview you get prompted to install maps, which is great.
(Snip)
I have a literal mind:
I typed "map", and I got "character map", plus a bunch of my files which the search engine considered relevant. (1)
I typed "gnome-map", and gnome-maps came up as an option along with the game nibbles. (2)
I still support Langdon on this one, though. I agree with the great reasons to "include" it and "promote" it ... but what I loved about F21 over previous releases was that gnome-software and its integration with the activities overview search function makes what is installed on the system out of the box much less important, since if it wasn't, it could easily be installed right away.
I think that "map" should show gnome-maps as suggested; after the knee-jerk reaction, it took me a moment to think "ah, maybe I should type "gnome-map" instead to see what happens" (which I'm not sure *everyone* would think of) ...
Can I vote +/- O on this one? :)
(1) http://www.malak.ca/linux/1-map.png (2) http://www.malak.ca/linux/2-gnome-map.png
----- Original Message -----
On Mon, 2015-03-30 at 19:04 -0400, White, Langdon wrote:
(snip)
I thought the point of gnome-software was to make apps discoverable without default installation. I believe that if you type "map" in the overview you get prompted to install maps, which is great.
(Snip)
I have a literal mind:
I typed "map", and I got "character map", plus a bunch of my files which the search engine considered relevant. (1)
I typed "gnome-map", and gnome-maps came up as an option along with the game nibbles. (2)
I still support Langdon on this one, though. I agree with the great reasons to "include" it and "promote" it ... but what I loved about F21 over previous releases was that gnome-software and its integration with the activities overview search function makes what is installed on the system out of the box much less important, since if it wasn't, it could easily be installed right away.
I think that "map" should show gnome-maps as suggested; after the knee-jerk reaction, it took me a moment to think "ah, maybe I should type "gnome-map" instead to see what happens" (which I'm not sure *everyone* would think of) ...
Can I vote +/- O on this one? :)
Not from me. Notwithstanding the fact that many users won't know that there's a stand-alone Maps application and carry on using Bing or Google Maps in a browser, and that, even though it's easy to install new apps, we won't stop curating the default install, I've already made the necessary changes Friday, as mentioned on the list.
I don't know if my vote matters, but I will give anyway.
Totally +1 for this. Reasons:
It *doesn't* need Facebook and/or Foursquare account to be useful; it *is* useful itself. It doesn't have the same functionalities that other preinstalled app. It have the same UI pattern (GNOME/GTK3/HeaderBar/etc) that many other preinstalled apps. Is just 329k. It is a (great) FOSS alternative to (unfortunately) widely used proprietary apps/services. *And* people will probably use it (or use it more) if it become more exposed.
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White, Langdon