So, this came up as a sidepoint in another bug.
Say, you're a user, your mouse isn't working. You try and log into a failsafe session to fix it.
You're now screwed because:
a) if you start an app, it may not have focus b) there's no keysequence to change focus, unless you're an X guru
Is this a situation we really care about? What do we expect people to use the failsafe session for, in practice?
Bill
On Thursday 20 January 2005 00:10, Bill Nottingham wrote:
So, this came up as a sidepoint in another bug.
Say, you're a user, your mouse isn't working. You try and log into a failsafe session to fix it.
You're now screwed because:
a) if you start an app, it may not have focus b) there's no keysequence to change focus, unless you're an X guru
Is this a situation we really care about? What do we expect people to use the failsafe session for, in practice?
My opinion ... we really do not need failsafe as long as there are VTs. I have never used the failsafe graphical login when I have a problem ... I login on a VT CLI.
Now if the only tools a user knew how to use were gui tools, then you would need failsafe so we should probably keep it. However, to fix the mouse problem you used as an example, the user will probably need to login on a VT CLI (or the ultimate CLI -- single user mode).
Gene C. wrote:
On Thursday 20 January 2005 00:10, Bill Nottingham wrote:
So, this came up as a sidepoint in another bug.
Say, you're a user, your mouse isn't working. You try and log into a failsafe session to fix it.
You're now screwed because:
a) if you start an app, it may not have focus b) there's no keysequence to change focus, unless you're an X guru
Is this a situation we really care about? What do we expect people to use the failsafe session for, in practice
Only situation when I run a failsafe session is when I want to run a way too heavy application for the amount of RAM on the system (Doom3 for instance), so I leave completely out the overhead GNOME or KDE or even XFCE could have in the system... Other applications besides games can benefit from the extra memory, like visualization software or simulations. Other instance when you may be forced to use such graphical shell is if you for some obscure reason your session would not work, and you still can use graphical tools to trouble shoot why isn't your regular session working... Just a thought... though you can always rely on the old trusty VT TTYs.
or simply to troubleshoot your session by starting it program by program and watching the output on the xterm
søn, 23.01.2005 kl. 20.49 skrev Gain Paolo Mureddu:
Gene C. wrote:
On Thursday 20 January 2005 00:10, Bill Nottingham wrote:
So, this came up as a sidepoint in another bug.
Say, you're a user, your mouse isn't working. You try and log into a failsafe session to fix it.
You're now screwed because:
a) if you start an app, it may not have focus b) there's no keysequence to change focus, unless you're an X guru
Is this a situation we really care about? What do we expect people to use the failsafe session for, in practice
Only situation when I run a failsafe session is when I want to run a way too heavy application for the amount of RAM on the system (Doom3 for instance), so I leave completely out the overhead GNOME or KDE or even XFCE could have in the system... Other applications besides games can benefit from the extra memory, like visualization software or simulations. Other instance when you may be forced to use such graphical shell is if you for some obscure reason your session would not work, and you still can use graphical tools to trouble shoot why isn't your regular session working... Just a thought... though you can always rely on the old trusty VT TTYs.
On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 00:10 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
So, this came up as a sidepoint in another bug.
Say, you're a user, your mouse isn't working. You try and log into a failsafe session to fix it.
You're now screwed because:
a) if you start an app, it may not have focus b) there's no keysequence to change focus, unless you're an X guru
Is this a situation we really care about? What do we expect people to use the failsafe session for, in practice?
For it to be useful for desktop users, it would probably have to start a regular desktop but just ignore your configuration (especially your session file).
I guess it might be good for bugs like the classic "vertical panel crashes on login" or losing the panel from your session.
The effort to implement a useful failsafe mode might be better spent making the session manager detect hosed states (missing panel, respawns, crashes) and recover cleanly/automatically, though.
Havoc
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