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hi all I hesitate to do this because I"m not sure what the proper way is to request a package be installed in fedora by default, but I'd like to request that the package qt-at-spi be installed in all fedora releases from now on, at least until qt4 is eol and apps switch over to qt5. To be brief, qt-at-spi is a plugin that bridges the qAccessible API to at-spi, so that apps written in qt can talk to orca. Applications that use qt5 do not need this, the accessibility bits are built in to qt5. Along with qt-at-spi, if this gets included, a small script will need to be put into /etc/profile.d called qt-accessibility.sh, with the following content. export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1. Once this is done, applications like vlc, mumble, etc read with orca. Until this is done these applications are silent. For some reason the qt-at-spi package doesn't include this script. This package needs no maintenance, once installed in the live image it's done, no further action is needed. qt-at-spi is no longer maintained upstream, and is only needed for qt4 applications I'm not sure if qt-at-spi pulls in most of qt with it, and if so I can see why it is not installed by default, but I don't believe it does Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux
On Thu, 2015-03-26 at 17:32 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
I'm not sure if qt-at-spi pulls in most of qt with it, and if so I can see why it is not installed by default, but I don't believe it does
It does bring in all of Qt, but we install both versions of Qt by default, so it doesn't matter.
It looks like it's important to include this by default... but that's only worthwhile if it works out of the box, IMO. The shell script is included in the -doc subpackage. It looks like you're intended to manually install qt-at-spi-doc, then manually copy the shell script to the desired location. I'm going to venture that the package is not worth including by default if that step is required -- you already have to know a magic incantation to make it work, so installing it is hardly any extra challenge.
Maybe there's a good reason for it to be this way -- does turning on accessibility in Qt have some sort of negative side-effect? -- but realistically the package is not usable for nontechnical users if that step is required. Hey Rex, what do you think we should do here?
Michael
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hi I wanted to reply to the reply I got, but couldn't find it, so hear goes. It is true that you have to be somewhat advanced to know to create a script in /etc/profile.d, but this is *necessary* for qt4 accessibility to work. Without this, the plugin is installed but no program knows to use it. I would argue that the script be murged into the main qt-at-spi package, rather than being left in the doc package. That way even if it isn't included in fedora workstation by default, which I'm hoping does happen, all the user has to do is install, and then reboot to get qt applications talking. My logic is this: I'm hoping to eventually get fedora to a point where a blind person, completely new to linux, can pick it up and install and use it, completely independently without having to do any configuring beyond basic system configuration. Basically, all the accessibility parts "just work" Fedora is very nearly there, with the exception of qt4 applications which is out of fedora's hands. I'm hoping eventually all remaining apps switch over to qt5, which needs none of this. Qt5 apps look for gnome's accessibility settings in dconf, and if they find it, they load the accessibility plugins of qt, so they just work once the screen reader is turned on. I expect most open source apps will Switch over. The proprietary ones are a different story, and I don't expect fedora to go out of it's way to support nonfree apps, but for now it's still necessary for even open source qt4 apps to have qt-at-spi installed. If installation on the live dvd isn't possible, then I'll add a bit to the accessibility guide about qt applications, so that at least a blind user can look for a solution to why his/her qt apps are not talking. Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux
kendell clark wrote:
hi all I hesitate to do this because I"m not sure what the proper way is to request a package be installed in fedora by default, but I'd like to request that the package qt-at-spi be installed in all fedora releases from now on, at least until qt4 is eol and apps switch over to qt5. To be brief, qt-at-spi is a plugin that bridges the qAccessible API to at-spi, so that apps written in qt can talk to orca. Applications that use qt5 do not need this, the accessibility bits are built in to qt5. Along with qt-at-spi, if this gets included, a small script will need to be put into /etc/profile.d called qt-accessibility.sh, with the following content. export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1. Once this is done, applications like vlc, mumble, etc read with orca. Until this is done these applications are silent. For some reason the qt-at-spi package doesn't include this script. This package needs no maintenance, once installed in the live image it's done, no further action is needed. qt-at-spi is no longer maintained upstream, and is only needed for qt4 applications I'm not sure if qt-at-spi pulls in most of qt with it, and if so I can see why it is not installed by default, but I don't believe it does Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux
kendell clark wrote:
It is true that you have to be somewhat advanced to know to create a script in /etc/profile.d, but this is *necessary* for qt4 accessibility to work. Without this, the plugin is installed but no program knows to use it.
I just spoke with some upstream Qt/KDE accessiblity devs, and they continue to recommend that users of Qt4 applications to do some sort of opt-in (ie, set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 manually). They said the support is just not good or reliable enough to justify enabling it by default for everyone.
In short, I'd be in favor of including qt-at-spi in workstation's installation set (but not set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 automatically).
I could possibly be convinced to set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 conditionally somehow (based on some configuration key being set or not, for example)
-- Rex
p.s. This only applies to Qt4 applications, of course, Qt5 ones should work out of the box.
----- Original Message -----
kendell clark wrote:
It is true that you have to be somewhat advanced to know to create a script in /etc/profile.d, but this is *necessary* for qt4 accessibility to work. Without this, the plugin is installed but no program knows to use it.
I just spoke with some upstream Qt/KDE accessiblity devs, and they continue to recommend that users of Qt4 applications to do some sort of opt-in (ie, set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 manually). They said the support is just not good or reliable enough to justify enabling it by default for everyone.
In short, I'd be in favor of including qt-at-spi in workstation's installation set (but not set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 automatically).
What would this bring, besides shortening the setup instructions?
I could possibly be convinced to set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 conditionally somehow (based on some configuration key being set or not, for example)
-- Rex
p.s. This only applies to Qt4 applications, of course, Qt5 ones should work out of the box.
Which uses the same variable name as Qt4, which means we cannot enable it by default when we install qt-at-spi.
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hi To my limited knowledge of qt accessibility, qt5 applications look for whether accessibility is turned on by looking for the gnome screenreader key /org/gnome/interface/accessibility. If true, they enable accessibility. If false, they don't. I could have that wrong, but I don't think they rely on a variable. I do know that having the qt_accessibility variable exported does not negatively affect qt5 applications in any way, including accessibility. I've got both here, vlc, which uses qt4, and calibre, which uses qt5, and both talk and don't seem to conflict with each other. So setting export QT_ACCESSIBILITY to 1 will enable accessibility of qt4 applications without affecting qt5. Thanks Kendell clark Sent from Fedora GNU/Linux version 22
Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
kendell clark wrote:
It is true that you have to be somewhat advanced to know to create a script in /etc/profile.d, but this is *necessary* for qt4 accessibility to work. Without this, the plugin is installed but no program knows to use it.
I just spoke with some upstream Qt/KDE accessiblity devs, and they continue to recommend that users of Qt4 applications to do some sort of opt-in (ie, set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 manually). They said the support is just not good or reliable enough to justify enabling it by default for everyone.
In short, I'd be in favor of including qt-at-spi in workstation's installation set (but not set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 automatically).
What would this bring, besides shortening the setup instructions?
I could possibly be convinced to set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 conditionally somehow (based on some configuration key being set or not, for example)
-- Rex
p.s. This only applies to Qt4 applications, of course, Qt5 ones should work out of the box.
Which uses the same variable name as Qt4, which means we cannot enable it by default when we install qt-at-spi.
Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
kendell clark wrote:
It is true that you have to be somewhat advanced to know to create a script in /etc/profile.d, but this is *necessary* for qt4 accessibility to work. Without this, the plugin is installed but no program knows to use it.
I just spoke with some upstream Qt/KDE accessiblity devs, and they continue to recommend that users of Qt4 applications to do some sort of opt-in (ie, set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 manually). They said the support is just not good or reliable enough to justify enabling it by default for everyone.
In short, I'd be in favor of including qt-at-spi in workstation's installation set (but not set QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 automatically).
What would this bring, besides shortening the setup instructions?
Nothing, it's just simpler, yes.
p.s. This only applies to Qt4 applications, of course, Qt5 ones should work out of the box.
Which uses the same variable name as Qt4, which means we cannot enable it by default when we install qt-at-spi.
I was told Qt5 does not use or need the variable, stuff should 'just work'.
-- Rex
desktop@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org
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Bastien Nocera -
kendell clark -
Michael Catanzaro -
Rex Dieter