Hi Guys, I am not sure that dropping GIMP is a very good idea. There are a lot of other things that can be dropped. By the way, the live CD should contain only basic trends in applications. A few weeks ago the talk was going on about cluttered desktop. One of the reasons people make cluttered desktop is because they do not know what to install and what not to install, and what to install after what. GIMP is basic image processing under Linux. Why don't you drop the StarDict for example. I cannot add custom dictionaries to it, I cannot add and remove words from it, and nowhere on the internet could I find what is the DB format (dict maybe) and how can one add custom dictionaries to it without reading half of the wikipedia before that. AbyWord is making errors as well. Try to insert a symbol in AbyWord for example.

GIMP is O.K. Best regards.

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, fedora-desktop-list-request@redhat.com fedora-desktop-list-request@redhat.com wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd (Matthias Clasen)    2. Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd (Matthias Clasen)    3. Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd (Bill Nottingham)    4. Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd (Matej Cepl)    5. Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd (Nicu Buculei)

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Message: 1 Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:46:16 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com Subject: Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop     fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com Message-ID: 1249562776.1608.3.camel@planemask Content-Type: text/plain

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 11:26 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:

On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 14:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:

...

The live cd has a very hard time shrinking below 700M, and it is not going to get better when it switches to use a dracut initrd.

One way to make sufficient room on the live cd would be to drop Gimp.

This has been proposed independently, on the grounds that it is not a very good fit for the live cd audience anyway (where we probably at most need the occasional photo touch ups), and its UI is somewhat unconventional.

There is probably not going to be any alternative to this step, due to the hard size limits, but I'd like to give people a chance to comment first, anyway. So, comments ?

Would dropping just the gimp user docs, or the extra data be enough?

Those were already gone. And it was not enough.

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Message: 2 Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:47:38 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com Subject: Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop     fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com Message-ID: 1249562858.1608.5.camel@planemask Content-Type: text/plain

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 09:49 +0000, Matej Cepl wrote:

Toshio Kuratomi, Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:39:01 -0700:

...

I don't think Nicu and Gerd are talking so much about random features that random users want to try... I think they're talking more about the best of breed software and "killer apps" that allow people to see the quality of programs written via a free software approach.  In this vein, GIMP and firefox are both projects that are showcase pieces.  They show people that free software can be quality software that is a valid alternative to proprietary offerings from Adobe and Microsoft.

Well, if we want to follow this logic, than we should throw a lot of stuff before removing OpenOffice.org from it, right?

Replacing abiword with the entire openoffice suite blows the iso size up to 825M.

Replacing abiword with just oowriter still blows the iso size up to 820M.

This is without any openoffice lang packs.

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Message: 3 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:54:51 -0400 From: Bill Nottingham notting@redhat.com Subject: Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd To: fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com Message-ID: 20090806135451.GC8712@nostromo.devel.redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Paul W. Frields (stickster@gmail.com) said:

...

Some best-of-breed open source stuff like puppet, or apache, or <insert other examples here> doesn't really lend itself to a demo-ware spin. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't/couldn't have one, but it's not going to be a full best-of-breed of what Fedora can do.

Is there any appeal in doing something more useful with start.fedoraproject.org, the default browser home page?  Such as putting a few best of breed apps on the page, with links to the latest builds that PK can install at a click?

See bug 315171; there's been ideas floated in this space for a while, but there just haven't been people with time to take the ball and run with it.

If there are people on this thread who want to tackle these sorts of thing and have the time to do it (I think we've sort of conclusively proven that the base development & packaging people don't, unfortunately), I'm all for it.

Bill

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Message: 4 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:54:10 +0000 (UTC) From: Matej Cepl mcepl@redhat.com Subject: Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd To: fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com Message-ID: h5eqqi$igg$2@ger.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Matthias Clasen, Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:47:38 -0400:

...

Well, if we want to follow this logic, than we should throw a lot of stuff before removing OpenOffice.org from it, right?

Replacing abiword with the entire openoffice suite blows the iso size up to 825M.

Replacing abiword with just oowriter still blows the iso size up to 820M.

This is without any openoffice lang packs.

I know and I am not fighting for OOo inclusion, just showing that we don't follow "make the most useful and shiny apps available" logic already.

Matěj

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Message: 5 Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:17 +0300 From: Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro Subject: Re: Dropping Gimp from the live cd To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop     fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com Message-ID: 4A7AF619.6020407@nicubunu.ro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 08/06/2009 05:54 PM, Matej Cepl wrote:

I know and I am not fighting for OOo inclusion, just showing that we don't follow "make the most useful and shiny apps available" logic already.

OOo is so big so it is an exception, is it or *several* other applications, making the choice easier.

....and it can be argued OOo is not "cool", is "useful", you do with it mostly boring stuff. It is also not integrated well in the desktop and so on.