Some time ago I posted to the Marketing list about a little "test" I was performing with some friends and family who are (or rather were) not familiar with Linux or Fedora at all, and were exposed to the LiveCD. There were some interesting comments and I generated an OOo enabled LiveCD for them to test with it. At any rate, part of the feedback I got since then, was about OOo Draw. Basically one of my relatives found out about it from the main File - New menu entry on the various OOo programs. Thinking it was part of Impress I got an e-mail asking about it. The e-mail basically said that if "this draw application was part of Impress why it had another entry in the File - New menu. I then proceeded to explain that OOo draw is another application, and was immediately caught off guard when I got a prompt reply of "How come, then that it doesn't have an applications menu entry, if it is a full blown app of its own, then?" And that's why I ask here, since I double checked on my four other Fedora machines (one desktop running F8, another running F7, yet another running F9 alpha and a laptop with F8), and indeed openoffice.org-draw is installed, but there is no menu entry for the application, even though there is the .desktop file /usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
Thanks in advance.
On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
about OOo Draw.
...
/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then UI/UX-team.
C.
On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
about OOo Draw.
...
/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then UI/UX-team.
While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.
Michael Knepher escribió:
On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
about OOo Draw.
...
/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then UI/UX-team.
While I would agree about OOo Math, I think the decision to hide Draw is shortsighted, and based on a misunderstanding of the nature of the program. It is not analogous to the draw features in MS Office, where the drawing functionality is entirely subordinate to the context of Word or Excel. OOo Draw is a fully fledged document-centric vector drawing application, and definitely deserves its own menu item.
Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me. Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open document format" or some such.
Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
Actually that's what one of the users who complained about it told me. Apparently Draw is very good at making diagrams, where Inkscape is better suited for other (more advanced) drawing tools. Sure you can still make diagrams in Inkscape, but apparently it is fairly easy to do them in Draw. I think it would be a good idea to give Draw its own menu entry. Now as to per that bugzilla "convention" the name for it should only be "Draw!" or "Drawing Tool" and to avoid confusion maybe a comment along the lines of "A document centric drawing tool, that uses the open document format" or some such.
If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users. So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu.
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
If is any worth into it, when the decision was made Inkscape was not part of Fedora *Core* and neither now is part of the default install on the majority of Fedora spins, that leave us with only one drawing application in the default install, OOo Draw, which is not included in any menu, so very un-discoverable by common users. So i think either install Inkscape by default (in the spins related to the desktop usage) or put Draw in the menu.
Even with Inkscape installed, I still make use of OODraw when I'm working on things that I know I'm going to use later in an OO presentation. I've built up a set of stock diagrams and junk that way to reuse. In fact I've made a panel launcher for oodraw just to make it easy to access.
-jef
So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we file an RFE in bugzilla?
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:09PM -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we file an RFE in bugzilla?
Enabling the menu item in upcoming versions or updates sounds like a good idea (pushing an update for F7 and F8 just to enable teh menu item sounds like overkill though).
On a related note: OpenOffice(.org) has become a well-known name. I understand the sentiment of having functional names like "Word Processor" in the menu, but perhaps the tooltip displayed from the menu couls at least mention that this is OpenOffice. A lot of other programs, like Firefox, Evolution, Gnumeric etc have their name included somewhere, either directly in the menu, or in the tooltip.
David Jansen
David Jansen wrote:
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:57:09PM -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
So do Nicu and Jeff answers, along with my own observations and those of the users I've put to a "test" would be safe to assume that it would be better for us to remove that NoDisplay=True from OOo-Draw and make it available under Graphics in upcoming releases (and probably through an update in F7, F8), or are the reasons discussed here not enough? Should we file an RFE in bugzilla?
Enabling the menu item in upcoming versions or updates sounds like a good idea (pushing an update for F7 and F8 just to enable teh menu item sounds like overkill though).
On a related note: OpenOffice(.org) has become a well-known name. I understand the sentiment of having functional names like "Word Processor" in the menu, but perhaps the tooltip displayed from the menu couls at least mention that this is OpenOffice. A lot of other programs, like Firefox, Evolution, Gnumeric etc have their name included somewhere, either directly in the menu, or in the tooltip.
David Jansen
Or better add a sub menu, and inside it put all OO apps
Stephanos
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Caolan McNamara caolanm@redhat.com wrote:
It should already be in the menus in rawhide since >= 2.4.0-10.1
Indeed I see it.
-jef
On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 18:26 +0000, Caolan McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 11:54 -0600, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote:
about OOo Draw.
...
/usr/share/applications/, any particular reason why it isn't included in either the Office or Graphics applications menus?
Well https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=156677#c4 is why it (and oomath) was marked as NoDisplay=true on the urging of the then UI/UX-team.
C.
So, I've placed Draw back into the menus, and also reverted back to "OpenOffice.org X" instead of "Word Processor" and "Spreadsheet" etc due to popular demand for those two changes.
And also because even if I wanted to *just* add Draw back to the menus as e.g. "Drawing" or something then we just don't have the 147 translations for that in GenericName to use as we do for writer and calc.
C.
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