devel November 2008

devel@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

288 participants
293 discussions

Seeking new maintainer(s) for package(s)
by Jesse Keating 16 Dec '08

16 Dec '08

The previous maintainer of emacs and lsscsi has asked me to find new maintainers for these packages. He is no longer able to devote any time to Fedora and had unsubscribed from lists a while ago while on vacation. If you are interested in taking over one or both of these packages in Fedora, please contact me. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating

6 12

OTRS and Fedora
by Jos Vos 14 Dec '08

14 Dec '08

Hi, What is the reason that OTRS has been removed from Fedora since F8? Thanks, -- -- Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl> -- X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV | Phone: +31 20 6938364 -- Amsterdam, The Netherlands | Fax: +31 20 6948204

5 8

how to add fc10-update branch?
by Carl Byington 14 Dec '08

14 Dec '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have a package (libpst) that I was building for f10 by: cd fedora/$NAME/devel cvs update make new-sources FILES=$BALL cvs commit -m "update to $VER" make tag make build That worked to build dist-f10 packages, and of course it now builds a dist-f11 package. What steps do I need to build an updated f10 package, presumably going into something like dist-f10-updates-candidate that can then be (eventually) fetched via yum update? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJMImFL6j7milTFsERAnrHAJ47yzIi6TyGxLg5SaJFzthFApqFAwCfQLEJ vXQoRtl4BJi2/nlgbKQfcGQ= =2ghG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

4 6

Feature proposal: New, Standard Documentation System
by Michael Cronenworth 10 Dec '08

10 Dec '08

Far too often I find myself looking for non-existent man pages, Google results, or help menus in GNU/Linux software. What's the problem? There is no single, reliable, standardized documentation system that is universally accepted or appreciated. Yes, what I'm about to describe should obsolete man, info, and all the other dozen "help" documentation found in all the Fedora packages. Problem case out of the way: Fedora should pioneer a GNU/Linux documentation system that meets these criteria: 1. Lightweight The entire system should not demand hundreds of megs of fonts, images, or other non-reusable requirements. I'm looking at you texlive. Recommendations: SQLite, ncurses, GTK. Existing toolkits; not new ones. 2. CLI and GUI front-ends Allow users to be presented to a universal and familiar front-end no matter where they are. The parts should also be separable so that, for instance, if there is no X requirement in a said environment, the help packages should not require QT, GTK, etc. 3. Universal formatting Obvious criteria, however, application specific formatting should be allowed as an optional addition after a standard format has been met. 4. Easy to use creation tools It shouldn't take a programmer background to write help documentation. Be it WYSIWYG tools or a simple XML-like (hey, or even XML) language to create documentation pages. 5. Global access You should be able to access any and all documentation for all software through a single window, be it X or console, without having to open the corresponding program. Optional criteria: 1. Platform independence (for use on non-GNU/Linux systems) Feel free to rip me apart. To me, and I'm sure most standard Linux users, documentation for /any/ piece of software is a nightmare, even if you are the original author. It should not be that way! Regards, Michael

25 49

F11: OSS and pulseaudio conflict
by Warren Togami 10 Dec '08

10 Dec '08

I ran into an application yesterday that seemed to make pulseaudio daemon fail. After a lot of digging, someone else realized that this application was actually using OSS output. OSS currently grabs /dev/dsp (provided by snd-pcm-oss), making it appear that pulseaudio has "failed". OSS applications are so rare these days, I did not even consider that it was using OSS. This is likely to be a rare but repetitive source of confusion in the future. Removing snd-pcm-oss makes /dev/dsp disappear (which is a good thing). Even with /dev/dsp gone, padsp wrapper allows an OSS app to output to pulseaudio. Only this isn't a good permanent solution because we do not want LD_PRELOAD wrapping everything. I think perhaps during F11 we should do the following: 1) alsa-plugins-pulseaudio seems to be the key package someone must remove if they really want to disable pulseaudio on their system. This package could ship a /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-oss file listing snd-*-oss modules. This way OSS comes back if pulseaudio is disabled. 2) If someone REALLY wants OSS mixed in their pulseaudio desktop, they can use padsp. This should be documented loudly in release notes. This is no different from F9 and F10. 3) Later make /dev/dsp redirection to pulseaudio permanent without LD hacks with the proposed FUSD? What is the status of this? Warren Togami wtogami(a)redhat.com

10 17

Unowned directories
by Ben Boeckel 10 Dec '08

10 Dec '08

Hi, I did the following command to find unowned directories (edited from my actual command to get rid of stuff like tmp that came up with lots of false-positives— though it is quite possible there still are some here): # rpm -q --whatprovides `find /{{,s}bin,boot,dev,etc,lib{,64},usr} -type d` | grep -v -e .x86_64 -e noarch -e i386 -e i686 -e ppc There were too many to consider doing a bug report for each, so I'm posting here with the list I get on my machine to start. I got rid of things that seemed like false positives (things under /tmp, /var/cache, and /dev/.udev). Is this something for review-o-matic to handle and post about or should some other service check for unowned directories and files on a clean system and send out emails to fedora-devel-announce and CC maintainers of suspected owners (looking at owners of files in the directory, sibling files)? To start, on my machine, I got the following output: file /lib/alsa is not owned by any package file /lib/alsa/init is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/contexts is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/contexts/files is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/modules is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/modules/active is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/modules/active/modules is not owned by any package file /etc/selinux/targeted/policy is not owned by any package file /etc/hotplug.d is not owned by any package file /etc/hotplug.d/usb is not owned by any package file /etc/.sdp is not owned by any package file /etc/.sdp/license is not owned by any package file /etc/snmp is not owned by any package file /etc/vga is not owned by any package file /etc/xdg/menus/kde-applications-merged is not owned by any package file /etc/.ibm is not owned by any package file /etc/.ibm/registry is not owned by any package file /boot/efi is not owned by any package file /boot/efi/EFI is not owned by any package file /boot/lost+found is not owned by any package file /dev/snd is not owned by any package file /dev/disk is not owned by any package file /dev/disk/by-label is not owned by any package file /dev/disk/by-uuid is not owned by any package file /dev/disk/by-id is not owned by any package file /dev/disk/by-path is not owned by any package file /dev/input is not owned by any package file /dev/input/by-path is not owned by any package file /dev/raw is not owned by any package file /dev/cpu is not owned by any package file /dev/cpu/1 is not owned by any package file /dev/cpu/0 is not owned by any package file /dev/bsg is not owned by any package file /dev/bus is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/002 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/007 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/006 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/005 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/001 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/004 is not owned by any package file /dev/bus/usb/003 is not owned by any package file /dev/.udev is not owned by any package file /dev/net is not owned by any package file /dev/mapper is not owned by any package file /dev/shm is not owned by any package file /dev/pts is not owned by any package file /net is not owned by any package file /usr/share/redhat is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/sr@Latn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/sr@Latn/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/ca@valencia is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/ca@valencia/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/uz@cyrillic is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/uz@cyrillic/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/twi is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/twi/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/default is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/default/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/xx is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/xx/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gy is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pa is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ky is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ng is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sd is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pe is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/C is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ni is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/dj is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cx is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/at is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bi is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tv is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lb is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gd is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/zm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ao is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ir is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ci is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sv is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/my is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mo is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ly is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/st is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/dm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/id is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mq is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/za is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mv is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/li is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ro is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ie is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sa is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ga is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/si is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ax is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ls is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/la is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/aw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/va is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/km is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/to is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fj is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tj is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ck is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nl is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fo is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/td is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cl is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/dz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/us is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/es is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/er is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/de is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/vc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pf is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ht is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cd is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ma is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/so is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gq is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fi is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/by is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cv is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/np is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ae is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/hk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/dk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/jo is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/hu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/jp is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/hn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gi is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ve is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/eh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/al is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/me is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/vu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gb is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ne is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ai is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/zw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/co is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bf is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bj is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/an is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gl is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ye is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/se is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ca is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/as is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/au is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/af is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sy is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bo is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ms is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/om is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/th is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ch is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/rw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/uz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ad is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sb is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/vi is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cf is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/iq is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/hr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ws is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ee is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ag is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/fr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/py is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ec is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/in is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bd is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/wf is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/no is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/br is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/md is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gp is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bb is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/eg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ru is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ua is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ar is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/vn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/uy is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bs is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ge is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/rs is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tt is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pl is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/il is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/am is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ki is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gw is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kp is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ml is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tz is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/az is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lk is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/na is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/mx is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/jm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/qa is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/nf is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/vg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/lv is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/et is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ps is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ba is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cy is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/bm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/be is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ph is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ug is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cg is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cu is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tp is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/gn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/pr is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/kn is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/ke is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/do is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/cm is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/sh is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/is is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/tc is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/l10n/it is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/en_US@piglatin is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/en_US@piglatin/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/nds_DE is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/nds_DE/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/sp is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/sp/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/zh_TW.Big5 is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/zh_TW.Big5/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/zh_CN.GB2312 is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/zh_CN.GB2312/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/en_ZA is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/en_ZA/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/gos is not owned by any package file /usr/share/locale/gos/LC_MESSAGES is not owned by any package file /usr/share/maxima/5.15.0 is not owned by any package file /usr/share/akonadi is not 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6 5

Feature proposal: Community Translation Tool
by Christoph Höger 09 Dec '08

09 Dec '08

Hi, did you ever want to use fedora in your own Non-English language and saw strings which where simple to translate floating around untranslated? I did. The best example is packagekit-gui's update dialog which has a 'review' button which was translated into german for f10, but remained untranslated in f9 although it was really easy to do. Why did I not contact upstream/fedora bz with a translation? Well, look how translation works for such simple strings (and normal users): 1. find out which package that string belongs to 2. download the source (and figure out how to do that) 3. edit that translation file in that weird format with that weird tool and create a thing called a "patch" 4. send that patch to bz (have a registered account!) The point is: Joe Average User will not even consider doing that! If he considers creating a bz account he can read english and will not have a very big problem understanding some untranslated strings here and there. I would like to make that process automagic by providing a) a simple app that allows users to make a "one string" contribution b) write a backend, that would store all proposals and update all .po files fedora has on a regular basis and send the generated patches upstream or to a fedora translator. Those tools could be integrated in a way that users could poll on translations on a "yeah, that sounds good" basis if there already exists a translation. Also the client could be offered/configured based on the locale selected at install time. Any ideas why that should not work / starting points to implement? Christoph

5 4

Fedora 10 and YUM
by Mark Bidewell 06 Dec '08

06 Dec '08

I installed F10 (great job BTW) however when I try to install software with YUM I get the following error: Downloading Packages: http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/linux/i386/flash-plugin-10.0.12.36-release.i…: [Errno 4] IOError: <urlopen error (-2, 'Name or service not known')> Trying other mirror. Error Downloading Packages: flash-plugin-10.0.12.36-release.i386: failure: flash-plugin-10.0.12.36-release.i386.rpm from adobe-linux-i386: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to try. pasting: http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/linux/i386/flash-plugin-10.0.12.36-release.i… firefox downloads the file without issue. Is this a known issue with YUM? Mark Bidewell

11 19

Logout sound ever gonna be fixed?
by Mark 05 Dec '08

05 Dec '08

Hey, There is a bug report for it here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470266 That's there since just a few weeks but the issue itself is in bugzilla several times and known for years now. And i wonder what the status is with this. If it's so hard to get it working then please just destroy the entire option to have a logout sound in gnome at the first place. A feature that is in but broken is kinda ugly. And perhaps this info helps. When pulseaudio wasn't in gnome the logout sound did work, but was already screwed! it just played a part of the logout sound before getting cut off. I hope anyone can give me some status on this bug. I really hope it can be fixed for F11. Thanx, Mark

4 9

My roadmap for a better Fedora
by Callum Lerwick 05 Dec '08

05 Dec '08

So, many pieces of this have been blabbed about by me and others recently and in the past, but I think a lot of people aren't seeing the big picture. I think it's time I fit it all together. Problem: Fedora is buggy, and updates are rife with regressions. Solution: We need more and wider testing. Problem: We need more and wider testing. Why don't we get more testing? Thw reason *I* don't go out of my way to test updates, is if there's a regression, it's such a pain in the ass to get the system back to a known good state and keep it that way, and report a bug. If it's a pain in the ass for me, it's impossible for Aunt Tillie. Solution: 1) Make it easy to report bugs. Bugzilla is complex, slow, and inscrutable. We need to put a simpler layer on top of it. Reporting a bug should require just a few clicks. It should automatically include all the information needed for the bug report, the distro version, package version, arch, and things such as how the Xorg team demands your xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log. Make finding dupes easier. Collect stack traces system wide and enter them in a database, which bugzilla can reference and from which bugzilla bugs can be derived. A system wide kerneloops. (I know this has been talked about, what's the status?) 2) Make it simple to roll back to a known good state. We need a "system restore". I know what you're thinking, but our vastly superior, centralized, system-wide package management (and lack of a whole seperate "system registry" namespace) allows us to make this actually work. We need per-package rollback. Period. 3) Make it so yum will refuse to upgrade the package rolled back in step 2 until the bug reported in step 1 is fixed. 4) For when things go really wrong, we need a rescue image in /boot. All the above functionality must be available inside the rescue environment. 5) So how do bugs get fixed? Make it easy to cherry pick updates from updates-testing or even direct from bodhi. How useful is it to blindly follow every update in updates testing? For most users, it's useless. Such adventurous people should probably just run rawhide... What we really need is to make it easy to pick a specific release of an update to try, such as if a user is directed to in a bug report. A user should just be able to click on a link given in the bug report and have the update installed. Available updates and the reasons for them needs to be more discoverable. Don't forget step #2. See how these things build upon and support each other? Notice here I'm talking purely about user interface, about the end user experience. The technical infrastructure follows from this, and I'll save that discussion for another message. Infrastructure supports functionality, not the other way around. I don't want to hear any "Oh but we can't do this because blah blah technical objection blah makes this hard". I hereby dub this the "Hard problem fallacy". Engineers solve hard problems, that's what we do. I want to hear "To do this we need to do x y z". The only objections I will accept are of the form "You are an idiot and your ideas are stupid. We're not doing this." I should probably put this on the Wiki so it doesn't get lost...

31 55

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devel November 2008