devel October 2010

devel@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

255 participants
246 discussions

Building boo against mono-2.8 problem
by Paul F. Johnson 29 Oct '10

29 Oct '10

Hi, In order to build the latest version of boo (the current one in the repos won't build against mono-2.8), the old version of boo has to be removed as there is a conflict with Boo.Lang.Extensions in gac (it is a known bug which is being worked on upstream). Is it possible to build boo on koji without removing the old version or is there a way to just remove Boo.Lang.Extensions from the gac? The problem will show its head again should another rebuild be required (which hopefully won't happen until the next version appears) TTFN Paul -- Vertraue mir, ich weiss, was ich mache...

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F-14 Branched report: 20101028 changes
by Fedora compose checker 28 Oct '10

28 Oct '10

Compose started at Thu Oct 28 13:15:57 UTC 2010 Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- qtgpsc-0.2.3-6.fc12.x86_64 requires libgps.so.18()(64bit) Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- qtgpsc-0.2.3-6.fc12.i686 requires libgps.so.18 Summary: Added Packages: 0 Removed Packages: 0 Modified Packages: 0

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experimental systemd + initscripts repo
by Bill Nottingham 28 Oct '10

28 Oct '10

I've set up a repo on r.fp.org: http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/notting/initscripts-systemd/ This repo includes updated initscripts and associated packages that test the conversion of various boot-time actions to systemd services. (Essentially, rc.sysinit is dead.) Before putting this in rawhide, we want to make sure it's not too horribly broken. Feedback welcome in bugzilla (against initscripts) or on the list. There may be additional changes pushed to the repo as more things are moved to native systemd services. Bill

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Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability?
by Arnoldas S. 28 Oct '10

28 Oct '10

Isn't Hulk the copyrighted trademark? --- On Wed, 10/27/10, devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: From: devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Subject: devel Digest, Vol 80, Issue 82 To: devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 12:41 PM Send devel mailing list submissions to devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to devel-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org You can reach the person managing the list at devel-owner(a)lists.fedoraproject.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of devel digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Chris Adams) 2. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Jason L Tibbitts III) 3. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Micha? Piotrowski) 4. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Richard W.M. Jones) 5. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Mike McGrath) 6. Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor (Matthew Garrett) 7. Re: experimental systemd + initscripts repo (Bill Nottingham) 8. Filled Seat on the Fedora Packaging Committee (Tom "spot" Callaway) 9. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Julian Aloofi) 10. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Tom "spot" Callaway) 11. Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor (Fulko Hew) 12. Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor (Matthew Garrett) 13. Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor (Fulko Hew) 14. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Chris Adams) 15. Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? (Laurent Rineau) 16. Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME! (Kevin Fenzi) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:27:07 -0500 From: Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027162707.GD11733(a)hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Once upon a time, Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> said: > I visited fedoraproject.org site to visit "Fedora Project Wiki". Where > is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Fedora wiki is > _important_ source of information (is the only place known to me where > I can find a link to the page when I can find a link to systemd git > repo url :)) link should be visible. > > In any case, a new page looks very nice and modern :) Well, I went to see what you are talking about, from a F13 system with Firefox 3.6.11, and the page is pretty garbled. There is something about printing under the quotes near the top of the page (if I highlight to copy I get a different block of text about "Printing made easy", and there's a partially visible form field at the right that says "rinters/Canon..."). Scrolling down, I've got another block about "A worldwide community of friends" on top of "YOUR LIFE ON FEDORA". Also, something about the layout makes it slow to scroll in Firefox (of course, that's not hard to do). I'm glad somebody is trying to make the site look better, but this is not so good. -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:32:29 -0500 From: "Jason L Tibbitts III" <tibbs(a)math.uh.edu> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <ufatyk7oaua.fsf(a)epithumia.math.uh.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>>> "MP" == Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> writes: MP> Where is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Actually it's right at the top; click "Contributors". (I can't tell you why it's called "Contributors" but clicking there takes you where you want to go.) - J< ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:36:36 +0200 From: Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <AANLkTinnmVWtUu8GTJNb3y3fVcr8of2t1CKyS=zjq-1h(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 2010/10/27 Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs(a)math.uh.edu>: >>>>>> "MP" == Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> writes: > > MP> Where is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. > > Actually it's right at the top; click "Contributors". ?(I can't tell you > why it's called "Contributors" but clicking there takes you where you > want to go.) LOL :) Indeed, I did not notice. I wonder why? Kind regards, Michal > > ?- J< > -- > devel mailing list > devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 17:37:15 +0100 From: "Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones(a)redhat.com> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>, Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027163715.GA28834(a)amd.home.annexia.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:27:07AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> said: > > I visited fedoraproject.org site to visit "Fedora Project Wiki". Where > > is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Fedora wiki is > > _important_ source of information (is the only place known to me where > > I can find a link to the page when I can find a link to systemd git > > repo url :)) link should be visible. > > > > In any case, a new page looks very nice and modern :) > > Well, I went to see what you are talking about, from a F13 system with > Firefox 3.6.11, and the page is pretty garbled. And that picture of Paul Frields (I think) is pretty scary too :-) Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones virt-p2v converts physical machines to virtual machines. Boot with a live CD or over the network (PXE) and turn machines into Xen guests. http://et.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-p2v ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:37:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.1010271137210.19071(a)laptop1.mmcgrath.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Micha? Piotrowski wrote: > 2010/10/27 Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs(a)math.uh.edu>: > >>>>>> "MP" == Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> writes: > > > > MP> Where is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. > > > > Actually it's right at the top; click "Contributors". ?(I can't tell you > > why it's called "Contributors" but clicking there takes you where you > > want to go.) > > LOL :) > > Indeed, I did not notice. I wonder why? > I might suggest... this is the completely wrong list to be discussing this. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/websites -Mike ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:01:39 +0100 From: Matthew Garrett <mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org> Subject: Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027170139.GA12192(a)srcf.ucam.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:53:01AM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote: > So I'm going to hijack this thread a little and ask if anyone can > point me to a resource that can tell me (at the lowest level) what > I need to interact with (what hardware bus I need to send messages on) > to send the request for EDID info to a monitor and get the results > so I can decode them. (I have the message format info, I just don't > know where to send/receive the stuff. /sys/class/drm/*/edid . You really don't want to do i2c from userspace if you can possibly avoid it. -- Matthew Garrett | mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:03:59 -0400 From: Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com> Subject: Re: experimental systemd + initscripts repo To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027170357.GC22263(a)nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Petr Lautrbach (plautrba(a)redhat.com) said: > Since initscripts-legacy is complement to initscripts > initscripts-legacy should have > Requires: %{name} = %{version}-%{release} Thanks, fixed in git. Bill ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:53:34 -0400 From: "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" <tcallawa(a)redhat.com> Subject: Filled Seat on the Fedora Packaging Committee To: fedora-devel-announce(a)redhat.com, Discussion of RPM packaging standards and practices for Fedora <fedora-packaging(a)redhat.com> Message-ID: <4CC8590E.4050801(a)redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Fedora Packaging Committee has filled its open seat. James Antill has accepted the invitation to help Fedora improve and expand our Packaging Guidelines. This was a difficult decision, as we had many interested (and qualified) candidates, and I would encourage any of them to attend and participate in our public IRC meetings. The Fedora Packaging Committee meets on Freenode IRC, in #fedora-meeting, every Wednesday at 1600 UTC. Thanks, ~spot _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:30:47 +0200 From: Julian Aloofi <julian.fedoralists(a)googlemail.com> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1288200647.6833.1.camel@Julians-Notebook> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Am Mittwoch, den 27.10.2010, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:27:07AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > > Once upon a time, Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> said: > > > I visited fedoraproject.org site to visit "Fedora Project Wiki". Where > > > is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Fedora wiki is > > > _important_ source of information (is the only place known to me where > > > I can find a link to the page when I can find a link to systemd git > > > repo url :)) link should be visible. > > > > > > In any case, a new page looks very nice and modern :) > > > > Well, I went to see what you are talking about, from a F13 system with > > Firefox 3.6.11, and the page is pretty garbled. > > And that picture of Paul Frields (I think) is pretty scary too :-) > > Rich. > Ha! ;) Regarding the displaying problem in Firefox, I had that as well first, but reloading the page solved it for me. Regards, Julian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/attachments/20101027/93bd53f… ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:34:21 -0400 From: "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" <tcallawa(a)redhat.com> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4CC8629D.3080300(a)redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 10/27/2010 01:30 PM, Julian Aloofi wrote: > Am Mittwoch, den 27.10.2010, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Richard W.M. Jones: >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:27:07AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: >>> Once upon a time, Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> said: >>>> I visited fedoraproject.org site to visit "Fedora Project Wiki". Where >>>> is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Fedora wiki is >>>> _important_ source of information (is the only place known to me where >>>> I can find a link to the page when I can find a link to systemd git >>>> repo url :)) link should be visible. >>>> >>>> In any case, a new page looks very nice and modern :) >>> >>> Well, I went to see what you are talking about, from a F13 system with >>> Firefox 3.6.11, and the page is pretty garbled. >> >> And that picture of Paul Frields (I think) is pretty scary too :-) >> >> Rich. >> > Ha! ;) > Regarding the displaying problem in Firefox, I had that as well first, > but reloading the page solved it for me. Also, it is worth noting that the new website makes heavy use of Javascript, so if you have NoScript (or equivalent) running, you'll not get a good view of the site. :) ~spot ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:37:41 -0400 From: Fulko Hew <fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <AANLkTi=oQrhiy=zMmB8xOA8HC+R6jXhsmomN=Dpu4bwk(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org>wrote: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:53:01AM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote: > > So I'm going to hijack this thread a little and ask if anyone can > > point me to a resource that can tell me (at the lowest level) what > > I need to interact with (what hardware bus I need to send messages on) > > to send the request for EDID info to a monitor and get the results > > so I can decode them. (I have the message format info, I just don't > > know where to send/receive the stuff. > > /sys/class/drm/*/edid . You really don't want to do i2c from userspace > if you can possibly avoid it. > But thats (unfortunately) exactly what I have to do because the device isn't running Linux. :-( I knew it was I2C, but on what bus and 'how do I get there from here'? It would have to be on the video interface/card(s) right? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/attachments/20101027/a5688aa… ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:59:02 +0100 From: Matthew Garrett <mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org> Subject: Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027175902.GA13244(a)srcf.ucam.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 01:37:41PM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote: > But thats (unfortunately) exactly what I have to do because the device > isn't running Linux. :-( Yeah, this probably isn't the right place to be asking, then. > I knew it was I2C, but on what bus and 'how do I get there from here'? > It would have to be on the video interface/card(s) right? Right. Your GPU will typically have a per-output i2c bus, and EDID is in an eeprom stored at a well-defined address on that. -- Matthew Garrett | mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:18:16 -0400 From: Fulko Hew <fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor To: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <AANLkTinfQThb26ZP2iGpBvhrT3B+DKEsMNqpqi90G6Vq(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Matthew Garrett <mjg59(a)srcf.ucam.org>wrote: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 01:37:41PM -0400, Fulko Hew wrote: > > > But thats (unfortunately) exactly what I have to do because the device > > isn't running Linux. :-( > > Yeah, this probably isn't the right place to be asking, then. > I thought I'd try to ask, because if some Linux developer could tell me how/where some app like xrandr gets the data, then I could figure out how to accomplish it on my equivalent system. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/attachments/20101027/061adf6… ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:22:40 -0500 From: Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: Tom spot Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat.com> Cc: Development discussions related to Fedora <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20101027182240.GE11733(a)hiwaay.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Once upon a time, Tom spot Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat.com> said: > Also, it is worth noting that the new website makes heavy use of > Javascript, so if you have NoScript (or equivalent) running, you'll not > get a good view of the site. :) Yeah, apparently that was the problem I was seeing. Honestly, making a site that looks broken with NoScript is a bad idea, especially for a user base that probably has a higher-than-average number of Firefox users (and probably mode advanced users that are likely to use things like NoScript). Requiring JavaScript just to get the correct layout is IMHO broken. -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:33:40 +0200 From: Laurent Rineau <laurent.rineau__fedora(a)normalesup.org> Subject: Re: who broke fedoraproject.org usability? To: devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <201010272133.40615.laurent.rineau__fedora(a)normalesup.org> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Le mercredi 27 octobre 2010 18:32:29, Jason L Tibbitts III a ?crit : > >>>>> "MP" == Micha? Piotrowski <mkkp4x4(a)gmail.com> writes: > MP> Where is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. > > Actually it's right at the top; click "Contributors". (I can't tell you > why it's called "Contributors" but clicking there takes you where you > want to go.) With my setup, where fonts are bigger by default, I cannot see the link "Contributors" (it is behind the div #site-content). I have to decrease the font sizes to see it. -- Laurent Rineau http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LaurentRineau ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:41:06 -0600 From: Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com> Subject: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME! To: devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <20101027134106.139c695a(a)ohm.scrye.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" =================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-10-27) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 18:30:00 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-10-27/fesco.2010-10-27… Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 18:30:01) * Updates policy / Vision implementation status (nirik, 18:36:20) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy (nirik, 18:46:00) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kparal/Package_update_approaches (cwickert, 18:46:52) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kparal/Proposal:Package_update_policy (cwickert, 18:46:52) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Proposal:Package_update_policy (cwickert, 18:46:52) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision_implementation… (cwickert, 18:46:59) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_update_acceptance_criteria (cwickert, 18:46:59) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision (cwickert, 18:47:05) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_update_acceptance_criteria#All_other… is different from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy#All_other_updates (cwickert, 18:51:02) * ACTION: cwickert will work on new features repo ideas (nirik, 19:00:51) * ACTION: SMParrish will work on metrics (nirik, 19:00:59) * #416 Set EOL Date For Fedora 12 (nirik, 19:01:03) * AGREED: F12 eol will be 2010-12-02, moving forward eol dates will be the nearest weekday to 1 month from release (nirik, 19:07:33) * Elections coming up. (nirik, 19:08:21) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations (nirik, 19:10:16) * Kudos for F14 release (nirik, 19:10:39) * #480 F15Feature - RemoveSETUID ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RemoveSETUID ) (nirik, 19:15:16) * AGREED: the feature is approved. (nirik, 19:26:46) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:26:50) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4224 (abadger1999, 19:27:32) * break build inheritance between F14 and F15 and update deltarpm files (nirik, 19:27:56) * AGREED: Fesco is fine with the indicated plan of mass tagging, breaking inherit, and scrubbing old deltarpms for rawhide. (nirik, 19:35:31) * Open Floor (nirik, 19:36:53) Meeting ended at 19:39:44 UTC. Action Items ------------ * cwickert will work on new features repo ideas * SMParrish will work on metrics Action Items, by person ----------------------- * cwickert * cwickert will work on new features repo ideas * SMParrish * SMParrish will work on metrics * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (115) * cwickert (51) * pjones (29) * ajax (24) * abadger1999 (17) * notting (16) * mclasen (14) * mjg59 (14) * zodbot (9) * kylem (9) * SMParrish (6) * wwoods (6) * Southern_Gentlem (3) * adamw (1) * rbergeron (1) -- 18:30:00 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2010-10-27) 18:30:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 27 18:30:00 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:30:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:30:01 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 18:30:01 <nirik> #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax pjones cwickert mjg59 18:30:01 <nirik> #topic init process 18:30:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:30:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59 nirik notting pjones 18:30:37 <pjones> yo. 18:30:39 <nirik> who all is around for meeting? 18:32:04 <pjones> just me and you I guess. 18:32:06 * notting is here 18:32:06 * nirik wonders if we have quorum today. 18:32:08 <pjones> ;) 18:32:10 <kylem> yo. 18:32:31 <pjones> mjg59 was around a few minutes ago. 18:34:11 * nirik waits a few to see if we get one more person for quorum 18:35:28 <mjg59> pjones: Hi 18:35:35 <mjg59> Sorry, briefly distracted 18:35:50 <nirik> cool. I think we can go ahead and get started. 18:36:01 <cwickert> am I late? 18:36:06 <nirik> cwickert: nope, just in time. ;) 18:36:09 <cwickert> ;) 18:36:13 <mjg59> cwickert: Fashionably so 18:36:20 <nirik> #topic Updates policy / Vision implementation status 18:36:20 <nirik> .fesco 351 18:36:20 <nirik> .fesco 382 18:36:22 <zodbot> nirik: #351 (Create a policy for updates) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/351 18:36:26 <zodbot> nirik: #382 (Implementing Stable Release Vision) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/382 18:36:31 <nirik> SMParrish was going to look at more stats stuff. 18:36:38 <nirik> Also, I talked with lmacken about bodhi stats. 18:37:08 <nirik> He was going to generate them for us so we could see what was in them, and also try and do a 'pre release' 'post release' split for f14 18:37:32 <nirik> the next bodhi version will allow (I think) running them from cron/regularly. 18:38:21 <nirik> It seems like we are not making much progress to finishing this up. Anyone have ideas on how we could finish things before next elections? 18:38:32 * SMParrish sorry I'm late. 18:39:01 <SMParrish> nirik: was travelling last week. just got home yesterday and have not had time to work on the metrics issue 18:39:14 <nirik> ok. 18:39:18 <cwickert> I think we still suffer from unclear board statements 18:39:33 <pjones> cwickert: I think we're always going to suffer from that 18:39:52 <pjones> we should just interpret them as best we can and if that's really something they didn't want then we do it again :/ 18:39:55 <cwickert> I was talking to some board members and they were not happy with the "only security and bugfixes" thing ether 18:40:42 <notting> and...? internal board politics are a matter for the board. 18:41:19 <mjg59> The board's statement explicitly says " Stable releases should provide a consistent user experience throughout the lifecycle, and only fix bugs and security issues. " 18:41:22 <nirik> I'd really like to see us try the current policy for a bit. It may be too conservative, but we can adjust it if so down the road. 18:41:42 <nirik> we also were going to look into a 'new features' repo. 18:42:46 <nirik> perhaps we could set action items and people on the remaining tasks? 18:42:58 <nirik> SMParrish: work with lmacken on metrics ? 18:43:08 <cwickert> speaking of that, I was supposed to write a propsal on the new-features repo 18:43:19 <nirik> cwickert: yeah. 18:43:24 <kylem> i think this is mostly just a reflection fo the project as a whole, looking at #fedora-dveel you'd be hard pressed to find unilateral agreement on the interpretation of our vision. 18:43:58 <SMParrish> nirik: yes i will get with lmacken on the metrics issue 18:44:02 <pjones> nirik: yeah, I'm with you in that we need more observation to see what we've done. 18:44:03 <cwickert> i have two problems: it is hard to find the status quo as there are a lot of outdated update-something pages in the wiki now 18:44:25 <nirik> we should nuke or redirect the old ones to the current one. 18:44:30 <pjones> yep 18:44:40 <cwickert> the second problem is: two weeks ago a lot of questions were raised in the meeting 18:44:48 <cwickert> but they have not made it into the wiki 18:45:13 <nirik> questions on the new feature repo? or ? 18:45:19 <cwickert> ys 18:45:21 <cwickert> yes 18:45:33 <cwickert> how things work in bodhi and all that 18:45:46 <cwickert> but they are not on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Stable_release_updates_vision_implement… 18:46:00 <cwickert> I guess I'll have to dig in the meeting logs 18:46:00 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy 18:46:25 <nirik> that should be the page maintainers look at/follow. 18:46:51 <cwickert> there is a few more 18:46:52 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kparal/Package_update_approaches 18:46:52 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kparal/Proposal:Package_update_policy 18:46:52 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Proposal:Package_update_policy 18:46:59 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision_implementation… 18:46:59 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_update_acceptance_criteria 18:47:05 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision 18:47:15 <nirik> the last one is the vision from the board. 18:47:34 <notting> anything in the User: namespace should obviously not be policy 18:47:37 <pjones> seems like we should make a category template for the various User: Proposal: ones and tag them so it says something at the top of the page or something. 18:47:37 <nirik> the rest should be removed probibly. (Although we do still have things to implement from the implementation_ideas page) 18:47:52 <pjones> (not that I've got any idea how to do that on the wiki) 18:48:21 <cwickert> the problem is there are conflictins statements 18:48:22 <abadger1999> pjones: Could just use {{draft}} 18:48:35 <pjones> nirik: I'm not sure I'm okay with us deciding to remove stuff under User: (unless it violates various codes of behavior of course) 18:48:38 <pjones> abadger1999: yeah 18:48:48 <abadger1999> pjones: Although you might want something that also says "rejected" or "alternative was implemented" 18:48:51 <pjones> abadger1999: I was thinking something a little stronger than that, but that's certainly the right idea. 18:48:52 <nirik> pjones: true. Althought we could add a 'note: this is NOT policy' or something. 18:49:22 <cwickert> e.g. the last paragraph of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_update_acceptance_criteria is not exactly what https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy says 18:49:37 <pjones> nirik: yeah, something like {draft} but maybe a little more "don't use this as reference" since lots of people are used to reading draft documents as the canonical source for data ;) 18:50:03 <nirik> cwickert: about exceptions? 18:50:15 <cwickert> nirik, about criteria 18:50:33 * nirik is not following. 18:50:56 <nirik> The critical path / other updates sections? 18:51:02 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_update_acceptance_criteria#All_other… is different from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy#All_other_updates 18:51:12 <cwickert> at least slightly 18:51:47 <cwickert> the information should be one one single page to make sure we have no contradictions and no redundancy 18:51:48 <nirik> well, I thought I copied it from the one page to the new one. 18:52:12 <nirik> yes, I copied Package_update_acceptance_criteria data into Updates_Policy 18:52:17 <nirik> where I messed up we should fix it. 18:52:38 <cwickert> ok, what else is left to do except a clean-up? 18:53:10 <cwickert> i guess https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Stable_release_updates_vision_implementation… 18:53:21 <nirik> if you see issues that are obviously me messing up the copy, just fix them. If it's something that should be changed, bring it up here and we can vote on it. 18:53:28 <nirik> right, we need: 18:53:31 <cwickert> i hope I can come up with a proposal for the next meeting, I'm just too busy in my dayjob 18:53:33 <nirik> metrics: how well is this working 18:53:44 <nirik> new feature repo: if it's fesable 18:53:47 <cwickert> what kind of metrics would that be? 18:54:26 <cwickert> i mean, how to judge if something is working? can we count how many people are cheating in bodhi? 18:54:37 <nirik> anything we could gather that would apply to: "Project members should be able to transparently measure or monitor a new updates process to objectively measure its effectiveness, and determine whether the updates process is achieving the aforementioned vision statements" 18:55:23 <nirik> we can count numbers of updates, numbers of bodhi comments/tests, number of karma submitters, number of bugs, etc. 18:55:49 <cwickert> so? what do we gain when counting the number of comments in bodhi? 18:56:05 <nirik> an increase in testing? 18:56:07 <cwickert> if even rel-eng gives "proxy karma" without testing 18:56:23 * nirik is happy to listen to any other metrics you think we should gather. 18:56:50 <cwickert> I'm sorry, I don't have any 18:57:07 <cwickert> but what I see at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/openbox-3.4.11.2-5.fc14 makes me think we are not doing more testing than before 18:57:17 <wwoods> you're wrong. 18:57:20 <wwoods> provably so. 18:57:21 <cwickert> just an example, I'm sure there are plenty of this 18:57:33 <wwoods> that is an anecdote; the data say otherwise. 18:57:35 <nirik> the plural of anecdote is not data. 18:57:52 <nirik> anyhow, lets see what SMParrish comes up with and go from there? 18:58:05 <cwickert> wwoods, if two out of three testers are faking results, what have we gained? 18:58:17 <mjg59> One tester 18:58:25 <wwoods> furthermore, if that were actually correct - what would be the correct solution? Do *less* testing? 18:58:28 <cwickert> well... 18:58:34 * nirik notes we are over 15min on this topic. 18:59:11 <cwickert> wwoods, not have technical limitations that make people abuse the guidelines. 18:59:29 <wwoods> finding problems with a process should probably cause you to look for ways to improve the process 18:59:32 <cwickert> anyway, I'm happy for all numbers we can gather, but I doubt they are meaningful 19:00:00 <nirik> ok, anything further on updates? or shall we move on? 19:00:01 <wwoods> so - constructive suggestions on that topic would be excellent! probably not here and now, though. 19:00:09 <cwickert> +1 19:00:51 <nirik> #action cwickert will work on new features repo ideas 19:00:59 <nirik> #action SMParrish will work on metrics 19:01:03 <nirik> #topic #416 Set EOL Date For Fedora 12 19:01:03 <nirik> .fesco 416 19:01:08 <zodbot> nirik: #416 (Set EOL Date For Fedora 12) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/416 19:01:11 <cwickert> can we also have somebody to clean up the wiki? 19:01:15 <nirik> Since F14 was pushed out a week, should we move EOL for F12 as well? 19:01:27 <nirik> cwickert: I can try, but I also have been very busy. 19:01:38 <pjones> nirik: yeah, we should keep them in lock-step I guess. 19:01:45 <cwickert> +1 19:02:12 <ajax> sure, why not 19:02:14 <mjg59> nirik: +1 19:02:29 <nirik> ok, +1 from me too. 19:02:36 <Southern_Gentlem> suggest 12/1/2010 19:02:44 <nirik> Further on this topic, instead of us voting on it, do we want to just setup a general rule? 19:02:50 <pjones> nirik: yes 19:02:57 <nirik> ie, nearest weekday to 1 month from release. 19:03:00 <notting> ACK 19:03:04 <pjones> +1 19:03:07 <mjg59> +1 19:03:12 * mclasen is all for auto-EOL 19:03:13 <mclasen> +1 19:03:17 <ajax> +1 19:03:25 <nirik> that would make it 2010-12-02 for this case tho (2010-12-03 was suggested) 19:03:58 * notting is +1 to lockstep, +1 to auto-lockstep 19:04:20 <pjones> nirik: nearest to or first after? 19:04:31 <kylem> +1. 19:04:32 <nirik> pjones: we could do that I suppose. 19:04:41 <pjones> not that I really care. 19:04:41 * nirik doesn't feel too strongly either way. 19:05:22 <nirik> anyone object to 'nearest weekday 1 month from release +1 day' ? 19:05:37 <ajax> fine with me 19:05:50 <cwickert> same here 19:05:56 <Southern_Gentlem> why the +1 day? 19:06:11 <kylem> latency. 19:06:12 <kylem> :P 19:06:24 <nirik> I guess that just makes it more complex. 19:06:42 <nirik> so, lets just do nearest weekday to 1 month after release. 19:07:07 <pjones> I'm thinking "first weekday after" just because that means we prefer mondays to fridays. 19:07:18 <pjones> (well, on or after. gah.) 19:07:27 <ajax> also fine with me. 19:07:33 <nirik> #agreed F12 eol will be 2010-12-02, moving forward eol dates will be the nearest weekday to 1 month from release 19:07:42 <nirik> pjones: I don't know that it matters... 19:07:59 <pjones> fair enough. 19:08:19 <nirik> Some topics that are just announcements/notices: 19:08:21 <nirik> #topic Elections coming up. 19:08:31 <nirik> elections are starting up for board, fesco, famsco 19:09:18 <nirik> Everyone should vote. ;) 19:09:25 <kylem> lol 19:09:27 <pjones> +1 19:09:31 <ajax> early and often. 19:09:33 * nirik looks to see who is up from fesco... 19:09:44 <notting> ajax, cwickert, pjones, mjg59 19:09:45 <mjg59> Me, ajax, pjones, cwickert? 19:09:47 <mjg59> Yeah 19:09:52 <rbergeron> ...or nominate themselves for open positions :) 19:09:57 <nirik> Adam Jackson (ajax), Christoph Wickert (cwickert), Peter Jones (pjones), and Matthew Garrett (mjg59) 19:10:10 * nirik thanks notting for updating the page. 19:10:16 <nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations 19:10:32 <nirik> moving on... 19:10:39 <cwickert> I haven't seen an announcement on devel list 19:10:39 <nirik> #topic Kudos for F14 release 19:10:42 * Southern_Gentlem crosses fingers that they all reapply for the job 19:10:58 <nirik> cwickert: yeah, not sure who is coordinating this time. ;( will find out tho. 19:11:11 <notting> nirik: i think everyone's coordinating their own? 19:11:24 <notting> do we want to designate someone to post to the devel list? 19:11:31 <nirik> I'd like to thank all the maintainers, qa folks, users and rel-eng for making F14 such a smooth release. :) 19:11:37 <cwickert> +1 19:11:39 <nirik> notting: oh, usually there's a coordinator. 19:11:51 <cwickert> especially for QA, adamw does a great job 19:12:10 <nirik> seconded. ;) 19:12:27 * adamw would like to thank all the people who did all the work 19:12:57 <nirik> I can find out if there is a coordinator this time, and if not, at least mail the devel-announce list about nominations being open. 19:13:14 <SMParrish> +1 kudos to all 19:13:20 <notting> nirik: wfm 19:13:22 <cwickert> nirik, there was something in the board list about coordination 19:13:24 <notting> nirik: thanks! 19:13:53 <nirik> ok, I had one f15 feature that I didn't note in time for the agenda. We could do it now, or wait until next week? 19:14:51 <cwickert> how about now? 19:14:54 <mjg59> Sure 19:14:55 <abadger1999> pjones, cwickert: Re: a template like {{draft}} I just made this for ya'll: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Draft/declined Go ahead and change it if you want something slightly different. 19:15:12 <nirik> abadger1999: thanks! 19:15:15 * abadger1999 sorry for jumping in with that but has to leave soon 19:15:16 <nirik> #topic #480 F15Feature - RemoveSETUID ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RemoveSETUID ) 19:15:16 <nirik> .fesco 480 19:15:17 <zodbot> nirik: #480 (F15Feature - RemoveSETUID ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RemoveSETUID )) - FESCo - Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/480 19:15:36 <pjones> abadger1999: excellent. 19:15:57 * cwickert looks 19:16:15 <nirik> I'm +1 on this. I don't know how hard it's going to be, but if anyone can get it to happen dwalsh can. ;) 19:16:39 <ajax> i'm only barely +1 to this since i still think capabilities are far too coarse-grained to be of much use 19:16:46 <mjg59> I'm also +1, though concerned about the degree to which things may end up breaking 19:17:01 <pjones> I'm +0 to this for the sam reason ajax is barely +1 to it. 19:17:02 <mjg59> I can't see it /reducing/ security, but I don't think it's as big a win as it could be 19:17:22 <ajax> but f15's xserver is already shipping non-setuid, so, whatever. 19:17:50 <notting> ajax: sys_admin or raw_io? 19:18:01 <ajax> notting: both those and also dac_override 19:18:07 <mclasen> is the dependency list on the tracker bug complete ? 19:18:11 <mclasen> 24 sounds low... 19:18:29 <nirik> it does seem low yeah. 19:19:14 <notting> ajax: that doesn't remove much. if anything. 19:19:17 <ajax> notting: if that sounds like zero effective reduction in privileges, that's because it's no effective reduction in privs. 19:19:22 <ajax> so, like i said. 19:19:38 <ajax> hey cool we can use capabilities! if only that were meaningful! 19:19:50 <mclasen> would be good if the feature page had some advice on how to find out the 'correct caps' to use 19:19:56 <notting> i'm moderately for the idea, but it remains to see if we'll come up with anything useful 19:20:17 <ajax> xserver might be a special case, but really anything that needs dac_override or sys_admin is trivially equivalent to root 19:20:27 <pjones> mclasen: the problem is that the capabilities are so poorly thought out that that's a non-trivial (and possibly non-meaningful) exercise. 19:20:41 <mclasen> and one that breaks at runtime if you get it wrong ? 19:20:48 <ajax> mclasen: indeed. 19:20:49 <pjones> yep. 19:21:41 <ajax> i would say i get the feeling the caps were designed by someone who had never tried to root a machine, but that would imply that i thought they were designed period. 19:21:54 <mclasen> so we need individual testing attention for each binary that gets that treatment, I guess 19:22:42 <ajax> yeah. again, if dan wants to drive that, great. 19:22:58 <notting> ajax: 'designed by someone who only wanted to remove setuid from ping, other things are an afterthought'? 19:23:34 <ajax> notting: that's a bit closer, yeah. 19:24:27 <ajax> anyway. +1 to the feature even though it's of the most marginal utility. 19:25:04 <nirik> so where are we here... 19:25:11 <nirik> +3 I see 19:25:19 <cwickert> +1, see what it brings 19:25:31 <SMParrish> +1 19:26:13 <pjones> I guess I could be +1 despite limited utility. It's not a bad thing to do per se. 19:26:46 <nirik> #agreed the feature is approved. 19:26:50 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:26:55 <nirik> Anything for open floor? 19:26:57 * mclasen adds comments to the feature page and gives a +1 19:27:00 <ajax> hah! the bugs even cite Xorg as the example. 19:27:09 * ajax ahead of the curve 19:27:32 <abadger1999> https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4224 19:27:39 <nirik> ah yes, 19:27:56 <nirik> #topic break build inheritance between F14 and F15 and update deltarpm files 19:28:07 <nirik> .rel-eng 4224 19:28:09 <zodbot> nirik: Ticket #4230 (task created): build tag override request for eclipse-3.6.1-2.fc14 || Ticket #4229 (task closed): Retire OpenOffice.org from F15 || Ticket #4229 (task created): Retire OpenOffice.org from F15 || Ticket #4228 (task created): Buildroot override request for libtorrent || Ticket #4227 (task created): tag request: dist-f14-override for libgda-4.2.0-1.fc14 || Ticket #4226 (defect closed): (11 more messages) 19:28:15 <abadger1999> Oxf13: You around for this? 19:28:16 <nirik> oops. thats not right. ;) 19:28:34 <ajax> eesh, this looks vile. 19:29:15 <nirik> yes, yes it does. 19:29:36 <abadger1999> This comment is probably the best summary of the problem: https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/4224#comment:6 19:29:51 <abadger1999> The initial report has the proposed solution. 19:30:31 <nirik> given that it falls back to the full rpm ok and that deltas are only somewhat usefull in rawhide anyhow... 19:30:32 <abadger1999> I think Oxf13 would like fesco input because we normally don't break build inheritance by itself... although we do in practice if we do a mass rebuild 9but once again, that would normally be later in the cycle) 19:30:42 <nirik> this is just f15 right? 19:30:48 <abadger1999> Correct. 19:30:55 * nirik whews 19:31:11 <abadger1999> It won't affect f14 as jnovy isn't going to push the new xz back. 19:31:19 <nirik> thank goodness. 19:31:32 <mclasen> whats the consequence of broken build inheritance ? people have to build their stuff for rawhide ? 19:31:40 <mclasen> doesn't sound too onerous to me 19:31:55 <ajax> mclasen: yeah, f14 builds won't automatically bubble to f15. 19:31:56 <abadger1999> mclasen: Correct. A build for F14 won't automatically go to F15. 19:32:11 <nirik> if we nuke existing deltas does that mean we would need a compose to rebuild them all? (ie, a long ass one) 19:32:35 <abadger1999> nirik: No, the idea is that we'll only have deltas for packages built after that time. 19:32:41 <nirik> ok, good. 19:32:45 <notting> rawhide deltas are just against the prior tree 19:32:55 <abadger1999> nirik: The reason is that the final package on the user's system will have been built with the xz on the user's system. 19:33:07 <nirik> I'm fine with the plan then... tag, break inhert, nuke deltas, move on. 19:33:09 <abadger1999> nirik: And when the update package was old, that's what's causing the breakage. 19:34:02 <pjones> yeah, I'm fine with this plan. 19:34:14 <ajax> works for me 19:34:22 <SMParrish> based on that I'm good with it 19:34:40 <nirik> that's +4 I think. 19:34:43 <mclasen> +1 19:35:01 <kylem> hrm. 19:35:04 <mjg59> +1, I think 19:35:05 <kylem> +1. 19:35:12 <mjg59> I can't see anything obviouly better 19:35:16 <kylem> i'd like t think about it more though. 19:35:31 <nirik> #agreed Fesco is fine with the indicated plan of mass tagging, breaking inherit, and scrubbing old deltarpms for rawhide. 19:35:34 <ajax> well, besides turning off deltas 19:35:52 <nirik> well, deltas are not usually that usefull in rawhide, unless you make sure to update every single day. 19:36:27 <nirik> and even then, if you had an day out of date mirror, etc. 19:36:40 <abadger1999> Cool. 19:36:48 * abadger1999 has to vamoose now. 19:36:52 <ajax> yeah, i really don't see much benefit in drpms for rawhide 19:36:53 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 19:37:05 <nirik> any further open floor items? or shall we wrap up? 19:37:06 <mclasen> do we have a date for that event ? 19:37:33 <nirik> mclasen: I guess when rel-eng is ready... it should be announced, etc. 19:37:46 <mclasen> sure, sounds fine 19:37:54 * mclasen was just making sure its not happening tomorrow 19:38:40 <nirik> I think the new xz has landed, but the only harm right now is that deltarpms don't work. 19:39:10 * nirik will close out the meeting in a few here if nothing comes up. 19:39:13 <notting> right, and since they fallback, i wasn't thinking it was OMG critical 19:39:34 <nirik> yeah. 19:39:39 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone! 19:39:44 <nirik> #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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who broke fedoraproject.org usability?
by Michał Piotrowski 28 Oct '10

28 Oct '10

Hi, I visited fedoraproject.org site to visit "Fedora Project Wiki". Where is the link to the wiki? It's in page footer. Fedora wiki is _important_ source of information (is the only place known to me where I can find a link to the page when I can find a link to systemd git repo url :)) link should be visible. In any case, a new page looks very nice and modern :) Regards, Michal

15 19

Making Fedora work with laptops on docking station with external monitor
by Pasi Kärkkäinen 27 Oct '10

27 Oct '10

Hello, I just tried Fedora 14 Beta LIVE CD and noticed things are still problematic on my setup: - Laptop with radeon graphics - Attached to a docking station with external (DVI) monitor. The lid of the laptop is closed when the laptop is in the docking station, so only the external monitor is in use. Internal LVDS display should not be used at all in this case. Now what happens when Fedora 14 Beta boots up: - I can see the BIOS, grub and kernel booting up on the external monitor. - when GDM starts the external monitor goes blank/black !! - If I open the (closed) laptop LID I can see the internal LVDS display is enabled and GDM login prompt is there !! I was tracking this down, and it happens probably because the internal LVDS is always reported as 'connected' by the radeon driver, so it gets enabled even when the laptop lid is closed. The radeon/drm driver maintainer (Alex Deucher) confirmed this is not a bug, that's how it's designed to be, and the "policy" of enabling/disabling outputs is left to userspace! So, some component in userspace should check the ACPI lid state and based on that enable/disable the internal LVDS. On my laptop ACPI lid state works just fine: $ cat /proc/acpi/button/lid/LID/state state: open or closed, depending if the lid is actually open or closed. So the question is which userspace component should be taking care of disabling the internal LVDS when the laptop lid is closed? - plymouth - GDM - Xorg - gnome-power-manager - something else? Please let us know what you think of this.. This behaviour is very problematic for laptop users who use docking stations, so it would be very nice to get this resolved.. There are many bug reports about this problem on Fedora bugzilla for various Fedora versions. Some bugzilla entries about/related to this problem: "internal LCD under the closed lid used as primary display": https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=595644 "KMS forcing LVDS laptop display active with lid closed": https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539180 "External monitor output is switched off when closing the laptop lid": https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589736 "Gnome power manager suspends system when notebook in docking station is closed." https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598540 "maybe we shouldn't suspend on lid close if using external inputs and outputs": https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=546497 Thank you! -- Pasi

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FESCo and Board Election information
by Kevin Fenzi 27 Oct '10

27 Oct '10

With a Fedora release coming soon, it's also time for Fedora Elections. Both the Fedora Project Board and the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee (FESCo) will have open seats during this election cycle. Nominations for these seats opened on Saturday, October 23, 2010. You can nominate yourself, or someone else. It's recommended if you intend to nominate someone else that you consult with that person first. The entire election schedule, and other important information for all nominees, is posted on the wiki's main Elections page, and the specific nomination pages for the Board and FESCo: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_nominations https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee/Nominations You can also find more information about both these at their main wiki pages: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FESCo If you would like to make a difference in the Fedora community and feel you can help these important bodies make good decisions, please do consider serving. Watch for upcoming town hall meetings, and chances to ask your questions to the slate of candidates. Kevin _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce

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Filled Seat on the Fedora Packaging Committee
by Tom Callaway 27 Oct '10

27 Oct '10

The Fedora Packaging Committee has filled its open seat. James Antill has accepted the invitation to help Fedora improve and expand our Packaging Guidelines. This was a difficult decision, as we had many interested (and qualified) candidates, and I would encourage any of them to attend and participate in our public IRC meetings. The Fedora Packaging Committee meets on Freenode IRC, in #fedora-meeting, every Wednesday at 1600 UTC. Thanks, ~spot _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce

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F-14 Branched report: 20101027 changes
by Fedora compose checker 27 Oct '10

27 Oct '10

Compose started at Wed Oct 27 13:15:04 UTC 2010 Broken deps for x86_64 ---------------------------------------------------------- qtgpsc-0.2.3-6.fc12.x86_64 requires libgps.so.18()(64bit) Broken deps for i386 ---------------------------------------------------------- qtgpsc-0.2.3-6.fc12.i686 requires libgps.so.18 Updated Packages: tryton-1.6.0-3.fc14 ------------------- Summary: Added Packages: 0 Removed Packages: 0 Modified Packages: 1

1 0

git merge problem
by Neal Becker 27 Oct '10

27 Oct '10

Sorry to be so stupid. I don't really have a lot of time to spend on this, maybe someone can give me a clue. I updated unuran master just fine. Then I did my usual dance: fedpkg switch-branch f14 git merge master fedpkg push fedpkg build bohdi ... fedpkg switch-branch f13 Branch f13 set up to track remote branch f13/master from origin. [nbecker@nbecker1 unuran]$ git merge master Auto-merging .gitignore CONFLICT (add/add): Merge conflict in .gitignore Auto-merging sources CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in sources Auto-merging unuran.spec CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in unuran.spec Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result. What's wrong and how to fix it?

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