On 11/06/2010 02:53 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 11/05/2010 09:46 PM, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 17:56:51 +0100, Ralf wrote:
ABRT
It doesn't tell the user that core dumps without reproducer are worthless in most cases but blindly sends out reports
Parts of the Fedora user base "abuse" ABRT in that they refuse to fill in the empty fields. Blame the reporters not the tool.
A matter of point of view: To me this is an ABRT GUI issue. It currently doesn't suck as much as it did before, nevertheless its usability still leaves much to be desired.
- please, send me some ideas or mockups and I will be more than happy to change the GUI... but just complaining "it sucks" doesn't give me much information what to fix ...
As yourself: What would you do if you were a "simple computer user" and are facing this "flash bulb icon" asking you to become "root"
- this is not true, you don't need a root for user crashes, so please don't lie ...
and to get a bugzilla account?
- yes, that's unfortunate, but what would be the solution here? allowing some anonymous account will lead to even worse situation...
You'd call your sys-admin, who'll deinstall or deactivate ABRT pretty soon, when you call him for the "Nth time".
- don't understand, why would you call admin? maybe this comes from the wrong presumption that ABRT needs root...
As a user you'd also think "what kind of crap is this Fedora/Linux - the WinXP I have at home is better".
- hm, wxp bug reporting is nice, because end-users can't even see where the bug went and check it's progress... if someone thinks it's better then...then I won't try to argue with him...
It's too easy for such people to open tickets via ABRT and then ignore a maintainer's NEEDINFO request.
Correct - But the same applies to maintainers.
My experience is, most of them ignore ABRT reports, probably because the ABRT reports are not helpful to them and/or don't contain sufficient infos.
- again and again and again - We know ABRT is not able to provide a good debug informations for every application we have, but the solution is not ignoring the bugs, but send us email or create a RFE in bugzilla describing what additional info you'd like and how/where to get it ...
It's disheartening in some cases, but it's a people-problem not a tool-problem.
I disagree - IMO; ABRT is not end-user ready. It presumes end-users to be familiar with redhat's infrastructure, which is a developer infrastructure and them to be interested to get involved into Fedora development. This simply does not apply.
Also, this produces incomplete traceback in many (IMO all) cases.
Cannot confirm that.
In almost all cases, I am observing missting debuginfos even after executing debuginfo-installs.
There seem to be some issues with not finding the needed debuginfo packages, which may be related to frequent updates of repos and older packages getting pruned. It may also be related to users updating their boxes at strange times, e.g. seldomly but immediately after a crash.
Possible. This certainly this applies in some cases.
However, I am experiencing missing debuginfos after debuginfo-install even with what is supposed to be "uptodate" Fedora installations.
- not ABRT problem,, but there are some projects trying to deal with this which I mentioned in one of my previous emails.. (debuginfofs and retrace server)
Ralf