When can we expect development to start on a Mail server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last servers that does not have a gui.
Thanx, John Mizell
I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box.
-Jon
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:35:19 -0700 (PDT), John Mizell john.mizell@sbcglobal.net wrote:
When can we expect development to start on a Mail server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last servers that does not have a gui.
Thanx, John Mizell
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Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24:
I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box.
-Jon
It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more.
Alexander
P.S. You raise nothing but a holy war by this. Please let us stop it in time.
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 03:58 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24:
I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box.
-Jon
It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more.
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Alexander
P.S. You raise nothing but a holy war by this. Please let us stop it in time.
There's no war involved. Just take a look @ previous default browser thread/flame and the default browser in current Fedora tree (yes, it's Firefox).
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a écrit :
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 03:58 +0200, Alexander Dalloz wrote:
Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb Jon Nettleton um 3:24:
I have a better question. When are we going to drop sendmail and switch to postfix as the default install? I find postfix more intuitive, not to mention the better security out of the box.
-Jon
It is nice that you have a personal favourite, but it would be stupid to exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more.
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it first so RH won't even contemplate it.
Regards,
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a écrit :
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it first so RH won't even contemplate it.
Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there isn't really any consensus on this, and the default Fedora install is locked down by only letting Sendmail listen on local ports anyways so for most users (who really only need an MTA for local mail delivery) it really isn't a big deal; you're pretty much limited to local compromises in any case.
In principle I personally do agree that switching to Postfix by default seems like a good idea though, especially given that it's already in the distro and the people who actually care about what MTA they use seem to prefer Postfix. Likely they already use it; I do, partially because I trust the security a bit more, but mainly because I could wrap my brain around how to get it configured sanely, unlike Sendmail which I just couldn't be bothered to figure out.
/Per
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 12:53 -0700, Per Bjornsson a écrit :
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a écrit :
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it first so RH won't even contemplate it.
Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there isn't really any consensus on this,
Tss gcc 2.96, apache 2, xinetd... RH is usually not so timid dumping yesterday's everyone-uses-it tech (in fact users have been more known to complain about RH fondness for new stuff that "breaks" Linux as-they-know-it than the reverse)
I'm stiff ROTFL remembering the last time the MTA question was raised and the argument was sendmail sucks, postfix and exim are better, but since we can't agree if we like postfix or exim best, sendmail stays the default.
(this being said if I didn't thought RH makes more good decisions than bad ones, I wouldn't be on this list)
Regards,
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 23:14 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 12:53 -0700, Per Bjornsson a écrit :
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 04:52, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le samedi 30 octobre 2004 à 13:59 +0300, Mircea MITU a écrit :
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Unfortunately at this point if would not only be a smart move but a long overdue one. I hope it's not one of those cases where Novell/Suse did it first so RH won't even contemplate it.
Gee, having fun with the conspiracy theories? ;) If this was the case, why would Red Hat package Postfix at all? Likely it's just that there isn't really any consensus on this,
Tss gcc 2.96, apache 2, xinetd... RH is usually not so timid dumping yesterday's everyone-uses-it tech (in fact users have been more known to complain about RH fondness for new stuff that "breaks" Linux as-they-know-it than the reverse)
I'm stiff ROTFL remembering the last time the MTA question was raised and the argument was sendmail sucks, postfix and exim are better, but since we can't agree if we like postfix or exim best, sendmail stays the default.
You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of choice:
1. SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service http://www.sans.org/top20/#u5
2. The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Mircea MITU wrote:
You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of choice:
- SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service
- The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a
RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. I too am one of the people who does -sendmail +postfix in my kickstart configs but remember Red Hat has to support RHEL and I will be the majority of RHEL customers migrating from things like slowaris expect sendmail. A lot of these people are old farts that have been around for a hundred years and do not like to change things they are comfortable with. Like it or not we are most likely stuck with sendmail forever.
Tom
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 19:01 -0400, Tom Diehl wrote:
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Mircea MITU wrote:
You're right, those are silly reasons. But I, for one, I see two major reasons to make this switch, from sendmail to postfix as the MTA of choice:
- SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service
- The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a
RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail. I too am one of the people who does -sendmail +postfix in my kickstart configs but remember Red Hat has to support RHEL and I will be the majority of RHEL customers migrating from things like slowaris expect sendmail. A lot of these people are old farts that have been around for a hundred years and do not like to change things they are comfortable with. Like it or not we are most likely stuck with sendmail forever.
No offense meant, but let's cut the crap. I did bring some RHEL customers to RH by migrating them from NT/2k and I had no complains from the old farts about Exchange missing.
Companies do not migrate from Solaris to RHEL due to 0-changes in the default install. The business pressure to minimize costs, conformance to some standards and audits and/or overall performance are the relevant factors for platform migrations or non-migrations.
On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 07:01:09PM -0400, Tom Diehl wrote:
RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail.
You'll notice that we turn network connections to the mail system off by default but the mail system is needed for internal deliveries of things like logs.
On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 19:29 -0400, Alan Cox wrote:
On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 07:01:09PM -0400, Tom Diehl wrote:
RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
It does not matter how many subscribers on this list are still using Sendmail.
You'll notice that we turn network connections to the mail system off by default but the mail system is needed for internal deliveries of things like logs.
It does not matter since the first documented sendmail issue is "how to open" it. Reading this issue may be cataloged as RTFM and people who install the system by default and leave it as-is, they never rtfm.
RTFM lovers already know how to bind sendmail on external interfaces and how to install/select sendmail as default MTA, if they want to.
I'd rather opt for a very restrictive postfix aiming to protect newbies and to secure deployments by default than for a somehow constrained sendmail just to please the statistics.
Am So, den 31.10.2004 schrieb Mircea MITU um 0:50:
- SANS Top Vulnerabilities, U5. Mail Transport Service
May stand as an argument.
- The very first thing done by the almost all the people I know after a
RH/Fedora install, is rpm -e sendmail
This is no argument. I know a lot of Sendmail users. Though it seems some kind of sport to bash on Sendmail it is still one of the most favourite MTAs, and it has it's good legitimation.
I really wonder how many subscribers are still using Sendmail.
Me for instance, and I won't switch :)
Alexander
On 2004-10-30 (Saturday) 13:59, Mircea MITU wrote:
exclude Sendmail from Fedora because someone likes Postfix more.
To exclude Sendmail, it would be stupid, but making Postfix the default MTA it would be a smart move.
Excluding sendmail is not an option at all. I prefer (and use) postfix too, but even an option to install postfix (or exim) as default mail server would be a good first step too. PS: 'Sendmail X' is comming (http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/sm-X/) and it's design looks quite postfix-like to me (human readable config, modular design)...
Am Sa, den 30.10.2004 schrieb John Mizell um 2:35:
When can we expect development to start on a Mail server Gui tool? It seems this is one of the last servers that does not have a gui.
John Mizell
Feel free to start programming :)
Btw. what do you mean with the term "mail server"? Any specific one of the 3 MTAs Fedora ships with (Sendmail, Postfix, Exim) or Cyrus-IMAPd or dovecot for the IMAP/POP3 serving?
Alexander
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