= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
== Detailed Description == Currently xorg uses different input drivers depending on the device type. This makes it impossible to do things like middle button scrolling on the trackpoint on laptops where the trackpoint buttons are software-emulated buttons on the touchpad. Besides this the xf86-input-synaptics driver was never really designed for multi-touch touchpads and this causes various issues.
For Wayland we've been working on a new improved input stack, which is to be shared by all compositors and lives inside libinput. We plan to replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv- libinput wrapper.
== Scope == Besides xorg changes, this will also require changes to the control panel applets for mouse / touchpad configuration in the various desktop environments, as those all are hardcoded to use the xorg-x11-drv-synaptics specific interfaces.
* Proposal owners: Package libinput and xorg-drv-input-libinput (done), make sure that xorg-drv- input-libinput has the necessary config interfaces for control panel mouse/touchpad config applets (wip). Write patches for gnome-control-center mouse/touchpad capplet. Coordinate with other desktop environments.
* Other developers: GNOME: merge the gnome-control-center patches. KDE: limits itself to standard X11 mouse config interfaces, no changes needed. Other Desktop Environments: adjust control-panel code to deal with xorg-x11-drv-libinput, merge these changes.
* Release engineering: N/A * Policies and guidelines: N/A _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
Thanks Jaroslav
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:31, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
As I already replied to the Fesco meeting Summary mail:
WRT to the 2 caveats:
1) As mentioned in the feature page KDE does not need any changes since its mouse settings panel does not talk directly to low level Xorg drivers.
2) The GNOME control panel changes are already done in such a matter that things will keep working with the old xorg-x11-drv-evdev + xorg-x11-drv-synaptics combo, both for other distrosm, as well as some users want to do a manual fallback to the old combo.
So I think that no changes are necessary to the wiki page.
Regards,
Hans
On Thu, 2015-01-08 at 13:59 +0100, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:31, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
As I already replied to the Fesco meeting Summary mail:
WRT to the 2 caveats:
- As mentioned in the feature page KDE does not need any changes since
its mouse settings panel does not talk directly to low level Xorg drivers.
- The GNOME control panel changes are already done in such a matter
that things will keep working with the old xorg-x11-drv-evdev + xorg-x11-drv-synaptics combo, both for other distrosm, as well as some users want to do a manual fallback to the old combo.
So I think that no changes are necessary to the wiki page.
Regards,
Hans
Thanks, Hans. We wanted to make sure that we didn't have another instance of the bluetooth fiasco from a couple releases ago, where GNOME changed the Bluetooth stack and broke things underneath KDE. If this is already addressed (or at least irrelevant), that's perfect.
----- Original Message ----- <snip>
Thanks, Hans. We wanted to make sure that we didn't have another instance of the bluetooth fiasco from a couple releases ago, where GNOME changed the Bluetooth stack and broke things underneath KDE. If this is already addressed (or at least irrelevant), that's perfect.
BlueZ 5.0, released december 2012. GNOME with BlueZ 5 support, september 2013. Fedora 20 with BlueZ 5 included, december 2013.
On Thu, 2015-01-08 at 08:54 -0500, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
<snip> > Thanks, Hans. We wanted to make sure that we didn't have another > instance of the bluetooth fiasco from a couple releases ago, where GNOME > changed the Bluetooth stack and broke things underneath KDE. If this is > already addressed (or at least irrelevant), that's perfect.
BlueZ 5.0, released december 2012. GNOME with BlueZ 5 support, september 2013. Fedora 20 with BlueZ 5 included, december 2013.
Was it really only F20? Seems older than that. Anyway, it's irrelevant when BlueZ landed upstream. What went wrong was that GNOME landed the support which broke backwards compatibility, which forced KDE to scramble to get it working on their side. This was a communication issue, and I think everyone would prefer not to repeat it. My apologies if my original message bringing it up sounded accusatory. It was not my intent.
The whole point of System Wide Changes is to ensure that all the people who might be impacted by a Change are notified and involved. So in order to avoid forcing sudden and unexpected work on a particular group, we called it out as a contingency issue: if either or both of the release-blocking desktops don't make the contingency deadlines, it gets deferred so they can both get it right in the next release.
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, 2015-01-08 at 08:54 -0500, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
<snip> > Thanks, Hans. We wanted to make sure that we didn't have another > instance of the bluetooth fiasco from a couple releases ago, where GNOME > changed the Bluetooth stack and broke things underneath KDE. If this is > already addressed (or at least irrelevant), that's perfect.
BlueZ 5.0, released december 2012. GNOME with BlueZ 5 support, september 2013. Fedora 20 with BlueZ 5 included, december 2013.
Was it really only F20? Seems older than that. Anyway, it's irrelevant when BlueZ landed upstream. What went wrong was that GNOME landed the support which broke backwards compatibility, which forced KDE to scramble to get it working on their side. This was a communication issue, and I think everyone would prefer not to repeat it. My apologies if my original message bringing it up sounded accusatory. It was not my intent.
And sometimes we live in this GNOME vs KDE world and then we forget all other desktops in Fedora - NM 0.9 fiasco. Where GNOME and KDE were somehow ready and everything else was released broken. So it's definitely good to talk and do it in advance.
Jaroslav
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:31, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
As I already replied to the Fesco meeting Summary mail:
WRT to the 2 caveats:
- As mentioned in the feature page KDE does not need any changes since
its mouse settings panel does not talk directly to low level Xorg drivers.
- The GNOME control panel changes are already done in such a matter
that things will keep working with the old xorg-x11-drv-evdev + xorg-x11-drv-synaptics combo, both for other distrosm, as well as some users want to do a manual fallback to the old combo.
So I think that no changes are necessary to the wiki page.
Scrap that, Kevin Kofler pointed me to this post:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205490.html
Which I unfortunately missed, so the info I got from KDE upstream is not correct because the KDE spin adds an extra component which does directly talk to the low level Xorg drivers, and there are plans to integrate this into kdebase upstream.
As a result of this Peter Hutterer and I have been rethinking the plans for switching to xorg-x11-drv-libinput for F-22. So now we plan to introduce xorg-x11-drv-libinput more carefully / slowly.
The new plan is to only do this for the Desktop product, and thus for the GNOME desktop.
We've always planned to keep the old drivers around and allow people to use those instead as a fallback plan, and the GNOME input configuration changes which are in the works will also keep supporting the old drivers.
I've updated the feature page to reflect this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
I guess given the changes FESCo may want to re-visit this feature.
I'll also start a discussion on desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org about adding xorg-x11-drv-libinput to the Desktop's product set of default packages.
Regards,
Hans
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:31, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
As I already replied to the Fesco meeting Summary mail:
WRT to the 2 caveats:
- As mentioned in the feature page KDE does not need any changes since
its mouse settings panel does not talk directly to low level Xorg drivers.
- The GNOME control panel changes are already done in such a matter
that things will keep working with the old xorg-x11-drv-evdev + xorg-x11-drv-synaptics combo, both for other distrosm, as well as some users want to do a manual fallback to the old combo.
So I think that no changes are necessary to the wiki page.
Scrap that, Kevin Kofler pointed me to this post:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205490.html
Which I unfortunately missed, so the info I got from KDE upstream is not correct because the KDE spin adds an extra component which does directly talk to the low level Xorg drivers, and there are plans to integrate this into kdebase upstream.
As a result of this Peter Hutterer and I have been rethinking the plans for switching to xorg-x11-drv-libinput for F-22. So now we plan to introduce xorg-x11-drv-libinput more carefully / slowly.
The new plan is to only do this for the Desktop product, and thus for the GNOME desktop.
Erm, except there isn't a Desktop product. There's Workstation, which is actually looking at including KDE as well.
josh
On 12 January 2015 at 12:48, Josh Boyer jwboyer@fedoraproject.org wrote:
There's Workstation, which is actually looking at including KDE as well.
It is? Why?
RIchard
Am 12.01.2015 um 14:26 schrieb Richard Hughes:
On 12 January 2015 at 12:48, Josh Boyer jwboyer@fedoraproject.org wrote:
There's Workstation, which is actually looking at including KDE as well.
It is? Why?
why not?
not everybody likes GNOME for several reasons and it would be *so much* more helpful if a *new user* never worked with Linux before could install both and chose at login which to use for find out the right DE
and no - you don't need to extend that for any available desktop because KDE/GNOME are the both major candidates backed by 15 years of history (i remember KDE 1.0 as example and did not like GNOME that old days as well as now)
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Richard Hughes hughsient@gmail.com wrote:
On 12 January 2015 at 12:48, Josh Boyer jwboyer@fedoraproject.org wrote:
There's Workstation, which is actually looking at including KDE as well.
It is? Why?
Because it was a work item from F21 that didn't make it and we're continuing off of that. "Including" here doesn't necessarily mean installed by default, but it's certainly something that impacts what Workstation needs to plan for.
josh
Hi,
On 12-01-15 13:48, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 08-01-15 13:31, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
Approved with two caveats: 1) Both GNOME and KDE must be updated by the contingency date or it goes into effect and 2) the contingency plan should note that it will may require reverting changes to the control panels as well.
Hans, could you please update Change page based on FESCo hints?
As I already replied to the Fesco meeting Summary mail:
WRT to the 2 caveats:
- As mentioned in the feature page KDE does not need any changes since
its mouse settings panel does not talk directly to low level Xorg drivers.
- The GNOME control panel changes are already done in such a matter
that things will keep working with the old xorg-x11-drv-evdev + xorg-x11-drv-synaptics combo, both for other distrosm, as well as some users want to do a manual fallback to the old combo.
So I think that no changes are necessary to the wiki page.
Scrap that, Kevin Kofler pointed me to this post:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205490.html
Which I unfortunately missed, so the info I got from KDE upstream is not correct because the KDE spin adds an extra component which does directly talk to the low level Xorg drivers, and there are plans to integrate this into kdebase upstream.
As a result of this Peter Hutterer and I have been rethinking the plans for switching to xorg-x11-drv-libinput for F-22. So now we plan to introduce xorg-x11-drv-libinput more carefully / slowly.
The new plan is to only do this for the Desktop product, and thus for the GNOME desktop.
Erm, except there isn't a Desktop product. There's Workstation, which is actually looking at including KDE as well.
Ah right, sorry I somehow had Desktop product in my head where it should be Workstation, you're right. As for the impact of installing xorg-x11-drv-libinput by default on Workstation, lets discuss that further on the desktop list, I've just replied to your other mail on this there.
Regards,
Hans
Scrap that, Kevin Kofler pointed me to this post:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205490.html
Which I unfortunately missed, so the info I got from KDE upstream is not correct because the KDE spin adds an extra component which does directly talk to the low level Xorg drivers, and there are plans to integrate this into kdebase upstream.
As a result of this Peter Hutterer and I have been rethinking the plans for switching to xorg-x11-drv-libinput for F-22. So now we plan to introduce xorg-x11-drv-libinput more carefully / slowly.
The new plan is to only do this for the Desktop product, and thus for the GNOME desktop.
We've always planned to keep the old drivers around and allow people to use those instead as a fallback plan, and the GNOME input configuration changes which are in the works will also keep supporting the old drivers.
I've updated the feature page to reflect this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
I guess given the changes FESCo may want to re-visit this feature.
If I understand correctly, this would amount to the inability to install both GNOME and KDE side-by-side, with both desktops’ touchpad configuration dialog working without manual involvement (because the driver change is done by installing/uninstalling packages or perhaps xorg.conf changes).
That’s not the end of the world but also not ideal. Is there anyone interested in porting the kcm module in time for F22? Mirek
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Miloslav Trmač mitr@redhat.com wrote:
Scrap that, Kevin Kofler pointed me to this post:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-December/205490.html
Which I unfortunately missed, so the info I got from KDE upstream is not correct because the KDE spin adds an extra component which does directly talk to the low level Xorg drivers, and there are plans to integrate this into kdebase upstream.
As a result of this Peter Hutterer and I have been rethinking the plans for switching to xorg-x11-drv-libinput for F-22. So now we plan to introduce xorg-x11-drv-libinput more carefully / slowly.
The new plan is to only do this for the Desktop product, and thus for the GNOME desktop.
We've always planned to keep the old drivers around and allow people to use those instead as a fallback plan, and the GNOME input configuration changes which are in the works will also keep supporting the old drivers.
I've updated the feature page to reflect this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
I guess given the changes FESCo may want to re-visit this feature.
If I understand correctly, this would amount to the inability to install both GNOME and KDE side-by-side, with both desktops’ touchpad configuration dialog working without manual involvement (because the driver change is done by installing/uninstalling packages or perhaps xorg.conf changes).
Well that might be solvable see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2015-January/011415.html
That’s not the end of the world but also not ideal. Is there anyone interested in porting the kcm module in time for F22?
That's the best solution yes (also see thread on -desktop).
Just wanted to thank for this feature. I installed xorg-x11-drv-libinput two days ago and middle button track point scrolling works like a charm. My life is much better now ;)
Vít
Dne 11.12.2014 v 14:42 Jaroslav Reznik napsal(a):
= Proposed System Wide Change: Change xorg input stack to use libinput = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
Change owner(s): Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com
Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper.
== Detailed Description == Currently xorg uses different input drivers depending on the device type. This makes it impossible to do things like middle button scrolling on the trackpoint on laptops where the trackpoint buttons are software-emulated buttons on the touchpad. Besides this the xf86-input-synaptics driver was never really designed for multi-touch touchpads and this causes various issues.
For Wayland we've been working on a new improved input stack, which is to be shared by all compositors and lives inside libinput. We plan to replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv- libinput wrapper.
== Scope == Besides xorg changes, this will also require changes to the control panel applets for mouse / touchpad configuration in the various desktop environments, as those all are hardcoded to use the xorg-x11-drv-synaptics specific interfaces.
- Proposal owners:
Package libinput and xorg-drv-input-libinput (done), make sure that xorg-drv- input-libinput has the necessary config interfaces for control panel mouse/touchpad config applets (wip). Write patches for gnome-control-center mouse/touchpad capplet. Coordinate with other desktop environments.
- Other developers:
GNOME: merge the gnome-control-center patches. KDE: limits itself to standard X11 mouse config interfaces, no changes needed. Other Desktop Environments: adjust control-panel code to deal with xorg-x11-drv-libinput, merge these changes.
- Release engineering: N/A
- Policies and guidelines: N/A
devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
devel@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org
-
Bastien Nocera -
drago01 -
Hans de Goede -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Josh Boyer -
Miloslav Trmač -
Reindl Harald -
Richard Hughes -
Stephen Gallagher -
Vít Ondruch