Hello all,
Any chance Fedora moves from Koji to OBS? Why should they?
OBS has a web interface so one can easily fix packages even from an internet cafe/work/windows pc. Projects can be developed separately and packages can be easily branched and submitted. openSUSE is entirely build by OBS. Third party are unstable packages maintainers, can develop them at one place for different distributions. e.g as we do with unity for Fedora -PACKAGE_dir *source.tar.gz *dummy.patch *%name-%distro.spec *%name-%distro2.spec *%name-.dsc
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
Regards, Damian
Sorry for the top posting.
Just my 1 cent , i follow only fedora.
But the answer could be only: political in first place. But this is the same for every distro, and this is true, in particular, for every distro rpm based for some reason. Every major rpm distro have its buildsystem, its bugtracker, its deepsolver, its rpm macro, its standard and so on. Difficult that this will change in the near future, if ever. My very long experience tell me this. Best regards (aside)
why don't use lauchpad instead ? Because it use bazar as dvcs ? Really ? But no.
2012/7/28, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com:
Hello all,
Any chance Fedora moves from Koji to OBS? Why should they?
OBS has a web interface so one can easily fix packages even from an internet cafe/work/windows pc. Projects can be developed separately and packages can be easily branched and submitted. openSUSE is entirely build by OBS. Third party are unstable packages maintainers, can develop them at one place for different distributions. e.g as we do with unity for Fedora -PACKAGE_dir *source.tar.gz *dummy.patch *%name-%distro.spec *%name-%distro2.spec *%name-.dsc
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
Regards, Damian -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/28/2012 09:33 PM, devzero2000 wrote:
why don't use lauchpad instead ? Because it use bazar as dvcs ? Really ? But no.
Launchpad is not a build system.
Well, no, not now, but once it becomes self-aware, who knows?
-J
Rahul
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
First, I'll completely ignore the question of what's wrong with what we have now.
Second, speaking as one who tried to port OBS to a RHEL platform once [1]: because of version dependency hell, and rampant SUSE-isms in the code. Try to get OBS running on a RHEL or Fedora platform yourself. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it sure isn't trivial (witness http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/new-project-obs-for-centosrhel/).
Footnotes: [1] I was apparently afflicted with temporary insanity. -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
Best regards, Damian
2012/7/28 Jerry James loganjerry@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
First, I'll completely ignore the question of what's wrong with what we have now.
Second, speaking as one who tried to port OBS to a RHEL platform once [1]: because of version dependency hell, and rampant SUSE-isms in the code. Try to get OBS running on a RHEL or Fedora platform yourself. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it sure isn't trivial (witness http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/new-project-obs-for-centosrhel/).
Footnotes: [1] I was apparently afflicted with temporary insanity. -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On 07/28/2012 09:53 PM, Damian Ivanov wrote:
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
I would love to have distributions share common infrastructure but realistically Fedora isn't really going to switch the entire build system away from Koji anytime soon. Buildsystem is obviously extremely crucial for a distribution and moving away from ones that Fedora has developed for years and have expertise to rely on to something new and potentially problematic isn't a easy sell. Blog links aren't enough. You will have to make it available in Fedora and EPEL to be even considered as a alternative. It is probably just easier to file a few feature requests (preferably with patches) for Koji.
Rahul
Le samedi 28 juillet 2012 à 19:23 +0300, Damian Ivanov a écrit :
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Yes, but that doesn't mean this is sustainable. from my experience, the initial installation is always simple, the problem arise on upgrade, on documenting, etc.
In the case of OBS, there is a few question to answer : - does it integrate well with bodhi ? ( since that's a critical part of the whole Fedora workflow ), or is it too tied to the Factory model of opensuse ?
- does it have adequate security for audit and signing of who did what. While I guess the answer is yes for audit, there is pretty specific requirement and setup for Fedora )
- does it still use a non standard backend ( last time I looked, it was something specific, and not a vcs, but there was plan to migrate to git )
Anyway, if you wish to do so, I think the first part would be to integrate it so it can be installed from EPEL, which would at least show it can be reused without trouble. There is some software that are hard to reuse ( launchpad, gitorious ) and that sysadmin would prefer not to take care of.
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
But how do you test your package if you do not have a linux system ? And what about trying to port client tool like fedpkg to windows instead ( that's just python after all ).
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
But offering build for multiple distributions is not a goal of Fedora, AFAIK.
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am
It does have a web interface. Try http://koji.fedoraproject.org. Do you mean you can't do what you want with the web interface?
one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
Well the fact you can't run Fedora on that machine is all well and good, buy another machine you can. We cater for users of Fedora not Windows.
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
Fedora has always been for Fedora. We have packaging standards that are all a lot different than most other rpm distros and while it might be nice that OBS allows you to do packaging for multiple distros Fedora has never and will never care about other distros. koji does what koji does because it's Fedora. We don't pander to other distros in the hope that someone might just package something for Fedora as well. There's good reasons why we use koji and I very much doubt that will change in the short to medium term just because it makes it easier for you to package things for multiple distros from Windows.
Peter
2012/7/28 Jerry James loganjerry@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
First, I'll completely ignore the question of what's wrong with what we have now.
Second, speaking as one who tried to port OBS to a RHEL platform once [1]: because of version dependency hell, and rampant SUSE-isms in the code. Try to get OBS running on a RHEL or Fedora platform yourself. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it sure isn't trivial (witness http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/new-project-obs-for-centosrhel/).
Footnotes: [1] I was apparently afflicted with temporary insanity. -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 17:50 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am
It does have a web interface. Try http://koji.fedoraproject.org. Do you mean you can't do what you want with the web interface?
He seems to be talking about a web interface that lets you edit specs and submit builds - some kind of basic text editor webapp hooked up to the spec repository, I guess.
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
He seems to be talking about a web interface that lets you edit specs and submit builds - some kind of basic text editor webapp hooked up to the spec repository, I guess.
I don't know if we need a webapp. But some prespun up virtual images for local virtualization or a cloud provider where I can drop my fedora credentials into would be useful for me to be able to do packaging work. Not just commits but baseline testing as well without having to rely on a slow net link to mock build against rawhide.
Admittedly I've got some unique constraints. But I'm pretty sure if we can find a technical solution that helps me be more productive sitting in Antarctica sitting at a windows computer in the USAP provided lab, it'll probably scale out for other people.
-jef
-jef
On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 12:31 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
He seems to be talking about a web interface that lets you edit specs and submit builds - some kind of basic text editor webapp hooked up to the spec repository, I guess.
If you really need this, and don't have any basic editing/checkin facilities on the crippled Windows box you are sitting in front of, then surely that means you're also incapable of doing even a *basic* smoke test of the resulting package.
I would consider the absence of a web interface to be a *feature* of koji, in that case.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Of course I do Fedora and SuSE on my PC. But from Mo-Fr. I am not at home and use my companie's laptop where I can not install Linux and wouldn't really like to install additional software. And having two laptops around would be too much :)
How can I package Fedora packages under these circumstances from Mo-Fr? Any ideas appreciated.
Cheers, Damian
2012/7/28 Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am
It does have a web interface. Try http://koji.fedoraproject.org. Do you mean you can't do what you want with the web interface?
one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
Well the fact you can't run Fedora on that machine is all well and good, buy another machine you can. We cater for users of Fedora not Windows.
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
Fedora has always been for Fedora. We have packaging standards that are all a lot different than most other rpm distros and while it might be nice that OBS allows you to do packaging for multiple distros Fedora has never and will never care about other distros. koji does what koji does because it's Fedora. We don't pander to other distros in the hope that someone might just package something for Fedora as well. There's good reasons why we use koji and I very much doubt that will change in the short to medium term just because it makes it easier for you to package things for multiple distros from Windows.
Peter
2012/7/28 Jerry James loganjerry@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Damian Ivanov damianatorrpm@gmail.com wrote:
What would stop Fedora from doing this switch?
First, I'll completely ignore the question of what's wrong with what we have now.
Second, speaking as one who tried to port OBS to a RHEL platform once [1]: because of version dependency hell, and rampant SUSE-isms in the code. Try to get OBS running on a RHEL or Fedora platform yourself. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it sure isn't trivial (witness http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/new-project-obs-for-centosrhel/).
Footnotes: [1] I was apparently afflicted with temporary insanity. -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
On 07/29/2012 10:17 PM, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Of course I do Fedora and SuSE on my PC. But from Mo-Fr. I am not at home and use my companie's laptop where I can not install Linux and wouldn't really like to install additional software. And having two laptops around would be too much :)
How can I package Fedora packages under these circumstances from Mo-Fr? Any ideas appreciated.
Running it under a VM would be a option. Also
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Machine_Resources_For_Package_Maintainer...
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com a écrit:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Machine_Resources_For_Package_Maintainer...
This is really nice. I wasn't aware people could have access to remote Rawhide machines for testing purposes. I guess it won't be really useful for maintainers of packages that requires Xorg to function, but still, this seems great to me already.
If anything, non-graphical critpath package maintainers who don't test their packages on Rawhide before pushing should be made aware of the existence of this setup.
Thanks
Yeah nice to see such things are available. Using ssh to my own machine is not acceptable for me. This would mean a higher bill for energy :) Well I think I will stick to OBS as it is now, may the other maintainer Xiao-Long wants to get the packages into main Fedora. OBS perfectly suites my needs, I was hoping Fedora could adopt it. One of the best OSS software - OBS. One of the best distros - Fedora.
Thanks anyway :)
2012/7/29 Dodji Seketeli dodji@seketeli.org:
Rahul Sundaram metherid@gmail.com a écrit:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Machine_Resources_For_Package_Maintainer...
This is really nice. I wasn't aware people could have access to remote Rawhide machines for testing purposes. I guess it won't be really useful for maintainers of packages that requires Xorg to function, but still, this seems great to me already.
If anything, non-graphical critpath package maintainers who don't test their packages on Rawhide before pushing should be made aware of the existence of this setup.
Thanks
-- Dodji -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Damian Ivanov wrote:
Of course I do Fedora and SuSE on my PC. But from Mo-Fr. I am not at home and use my companie's laptop where I can not install Linux and wouldn't really like to install additional software. And having two laptops around would be too much :)
Are you not even allowed to install Putty and log in by SSH from the laptop to your home PC?
A Git implementation for Windows would probably make your work easier. A quick search indicates that such programs exist.
Björn Persson
On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 19:23 +0300, Damian Ivanov wrote:
First Thanks for the link and the answer. The guy ported it ten days later and it seems to work perfect now: http://www.martin-juhl.dk/2012/04/cbs-ready/
Second the problem with koji is that I have no web interface. I am one of the maintainers of the experimental unity for Fedora and I do a few other packages at home:damianator on OBS. I do lot of the spec file editing, patching etc. using the web interface from windows, because I can't have Linux on this one (long story).
Also for some people that want to manage their applications for multiple distributions is the *only* logical (administrative-able) option, correct me if you have something more encouraged by Fedora that has the same capabilities, I will be happy to use it.
I don't think you'd be able to do multiple distros from a single OBS instance even if we were to use OBS code; per Fedora policies Fedora has to be self-hosting, so we wouldn't use SUSE's OBS instance, we'd run one of our own. So you'd still have to use SUSE's OBS for official SUSE packages and Fedora's OBS for official Fedora packages, I think.
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