= Proposed Self Contained Change: Replace Bacula with Bareos = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bareos
Change Owner(s): Simone Caronni <negativo17 at gmail.com>
The powerful Bacula network backup solution has switched from being Open Source friendly to being almost closed source. Originally the project was conceived totally as Open Source, but since the creation of Bacula Systems and its proprietary Bacula Enterprise Edition product, the Open Source (now called "Community Edition") has received less and less updates and is mostly abandoned.
== Detailed description == The most important points that are left "abandoned" are the following:
* Installation scripts and updates to makefiles are not updated anymore. * New plugins and functionalities are not added anymore, except those in the "core" daemons. * Gaphical (and buggy) console has not received any update in almost two years. * Patches and bugs opened in the bug tracker are mostly left abandoned. Even trivial fixes are not imported in the source. * Windows binaries are no longer provided, nor the source for the clients has been updated. Even if compiled with difficulties, there is no support for recent Windows versions.
A former Bacula developer, frustrated by the situation created the fork Bareos a long time ago from Bacula 5.2.x (the current Fedora and RHEL 7 version). This version has now received '''a lot of bugfixes''' compared to the original Bacula source. This makes compilation and installation a lot easier than it was with Bacula.
On top of this, a '''lot of new features''' have been added; some unique to Bareos but many available only in the closed source Bacula Enterprise.
Here is the list of new features compared to the current Bacula 5.2.13:
* http://www.bareos.org/en/whats_new.html
Some highlights include NDMP support for enterprise class storage (NetApp, etc.), support for enterprise class tape libraries and Windows support (including Windows Server 2012) with Bareos generated binaries.
For further details on why a Bacula fork was created please look at the following links:
* http://www.bareos.org/en/faq/items/why_fork.html
Bareos can also be '''fully compatible with Bacula''' by setting a specific configuration directive in the Daemon configuration files; thus providing the option for RHEL 6/7 users to interoperate with Fedora systems.
* http://www.bareos.org/en/faq/items/bareos_bacula_compatibility.html
== Scope == To accomplish the goal, the following Bacula packages need to be replaced with Bareos equivalents:
bacula bacula-docs
Currently, the same Fedora packages can be rebuilt as they are, to work also on CentOS/RHEL 5 and 6, upgrading the EPEL or official Bacula packages in the distributions. This is to have a consistent backup infrastructure across all the Fedora/CentOS/RHEL ecosystem.
To ease installation, a repository for installing those packages on a CentOS/RHEL system do exist:
http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/slaanesh/bacula/README.txt
The idea is the same for Bareos: import into Fedora 21 packages that can be rebuilt for all supported Fedora/RHEL/CentOS releases and provide a repository that can upgrade any Bacula release currently installed in the system with the new one. In detail; the upgrade scenarios supported when going from Bacula to Bareos would be:
From Bacula 2.4: * RHEL/CentOS 5 with EPEL repository
From Bacula 5.0: * RHEL/CentOS 6
From Bacula 5.2.13:
* Fedora 18+ * RHEL/CentOS 5 * RHEL/CentOS 6
As written before, the change is impacting only Fedora 21, the list of upgrades supported are only for users who want a consistent backup solution across the enterprise.
=== External activities === Proposal owners: I'm the current Bacula mantainer in Fedora and will complete the transition in time for the release.
Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
Release engineering: the release engineering team should make sure the new Bareos packages are in place instead of the current Bacula packages for the new release.
Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
Hello,
Bareos is currently in standby following some legal issues:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items#Bareos
It was added to the Forbidden Items list after I wrote the feature page. Until those are solved, the feature can't simply happen.
Regards, --Simone
On 15 November 2013 13:03, Jaroslav Reznik jreznik@redhat.com wrote:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: Replace Bacula with Bareos = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bareos
Change Owner(s): Simone Caronni <negativo17 at gmail.com>
The powerful Bacula network backup solution has switched from being Open Source friendly to being almost closed source. Originally the project was conceived totally as Open Source, but since the creation of Bacula Systems and its proprietary Bacula Enterprise Edition product, the Open Source (now called "Community Edition") has received less and less updates and is mostly abandoned.
== Detailed description == The most important points that are left "abandoned" are the following:
- Installation scripts and updates to makefiles are not updated anymore.
- New plugins and functionalities are not added anymore, except those in
the "core" daemons.
- Gaphical (and buggy) console has not received any update in almost two
years.
- Patches and bugs opened in the bug tracker are mostly left abandoned.
Even trivial fixes are not imported in the source.
- Windows binaries are no longer provided, nor the source for the clients
has been updated. Even if compiled with difficulties, there is no support for recent Windows versions.
A former Bacula developer, frustrated by the situation created the fork Bareos a long time ago from Bacula 5.2.x (the current Fedora and RHEL 7 version). This version has now received '''a lot of bugfixes''' compared to the original Bacula source. This makes compilation and installation a lot easier than it was with Bacula.
On top of this, a '''lot of new features''' have been added; some unique to Bareos but many available only in the closed source Bacula Enterprise.
Here is the list of new features compared to the current Bacula 5.2.13:
Some highlights include NDMP support for enterprise class storage (NetApp, etc.), support for enterprise class tape libraries and Windows support (including Windows Server 2012) with Bareos generated binaries.
For further details on why a Bacula fork was created please look at the following links:
Bareos can also be '''fully compatible with Bacula''' by setting a specific configuration directive in the Daemon configuration files; thus providing the option for RHEL 6/7 users to interoperate with Fedora systems.
== Scope == To accomplish the goal, the following Bacula packages need to be replaced with Bareos equivalents:
bacula bacula-docs
Currently, the same Fedora packages can be rebuilt as they are, to work also on CentOS/RHEL 5 and 6, upgrading the EPEL or official Bacula packages in the distributions. This is to have a consistent backup infrastructure across all the Fedora/CentOS/RHEL ecosystem.
To ease installation, a repository for installing those packages on a CentOS/RHEL system do exist:
http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/slaanesh/bacula/README.txt
The idea is the same for Bareos: import into Fedora 21 packages that can be rebuilt for all supported Fedora/RHEL/CentOS releases and provide a repository that can upgrade any Bacula release currently installed in the system with the new one. In detail; the upgrade scenarios supported when going from Bacula to Bareos would be:
From Bacula 2.4:
- RHEL/CentOS 5 with EPEL repository
From Bacula 5.0:
- RHEL/CentOS 6
From Bacula 5.2.13:
- Fedora 18+
- RHEL/CentOS 5
- RHEL/CentOS 6
As written before, the change is impacting only Fedora 21, the list of upgrades supported are only for users who want a consistent backup solution across the enterprise.
=== External activities === Proposal owners: I'm the current Bacula mantainer in Fedora and will complete the transition in time for the release.
Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
Release engineering: the release engineering team should make sure the new Bareos packages are in place instead of the current Bacula packages for the new release.
Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
----- Original Message -----
Hello,
Bareos is currently in standby following some legal issues:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items#Bareos
It was added to the Forbidden Items list after I wrote the feature page. Until those are solved, the feature can't simply happen.
I wasn't aware of it, announced Changes in the ready for wrangler category. What are the legal issues?
/me probably missed it here, going to take a look
Jaroslav
Regards, --Simone
On 15 November 2013 13:03, Jaroslav Reznik < jreznik@redhat.com > wrote:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: Replace Bacula with Bareos = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Bareos
Change Owner(s): Simone Caronni <negativo17 at gmail.com >
The powerful Bacula network backup solution has switched from being Open Source friendly to being almost closed source. Originally the project was conceived totally as Open Source, but since the creation of Bacula Systems and its proprietary Bacula Enterprise Edition product, the Open Source (now called "Community Edition") has received less and less updates and is mostly abandoned.
== Detailed description == The most important points that are left "abandoned" are the following:
- Installation scripts and updates to makefiles are not updated anymore.
- New plugins and functionalities are not added anymore, except those in the
"core" daemons.
- Gaphical (and buggy) console has not received any update in almost two
years.
- Patches and bugs opened in the bug tracker are mostly left abandoned. Even
trivial fixes are not imported in the source.
- Windows binaries are no longer provided, nor the source for the clients has
been updated. Even if compiled with difficulties, there is no support for recent Windows versions.
A former Bacula developer, frustrated by the situation created the fork Bareos a long time ago from Bacula 5.2.x (the current Fedora and RHEL 7 version). This version has now received '''a lot of bugfixes''' compared to the original Bacula source. This makes compilation and installation a lot easier than it was with Bacula.
On top of this, a '''lot of new features''' have been added; some unique to Bareos but many available only in the closed source Bacula Enterprise.
Here is the list of new features compared to the current Bacula 5.2.13:
Some highlights include NDMP support for enterprise class storage (NetApp, etc.), support for enterprise class tape libraries and Windows support (including Windows Server 2012) with Bareos generated binaries.
For further details on why a Bacula fork was created please look at the following links:
Bareos can also be '''fully compatible with Bacula''' by setting a specific configuration directive in the Daemon configuration files; thus providing the option for RHEL 6/7 users to interoperate with Fedora systems.
== Scope == To accomplish the goal, the following Bacula packages need to be replaced with Bareos equivalents:
bacula bacula-docs
Currently, the same Fedora packages can be rebuilt as they are, to work also on CentOS/RHEL 5 and 6, upgrading the EPEL or official Bacula packages in the distributions. This is to have a consistent backup infrastructure across all the Fedora/CentOS/RHEL ecosystem.
To ease installation, a repository for installing those packages on a CentOS/RHEL system do exist:
http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/slaanesh/bacula/README.txt
The idea is the same for Bareos: import into Fedora 21 packages that can be rebuilt for all supported Fedora/RHEL/CentOS releases and provide a repository that can upgrade any Bacula release currently installed in the system with the new one. In detail; the upgrade scenarios supported when going from Bacula to Bareos would be:
From Bacula 2.4:
- RHEL/CentOS 5 with EPEL repository
From Bacula 5.0:
- RHEL/CentOS 6
From Bacula 5.2.13:
- Fedora 18+
- RHEL/CentOS 5
- RHEL/CentOS 6
As written before, the change is impacting only Fedora 21, the list of upgrades supported are only for users who want a consistent backup solution across the enterprise.
=== External activities === Proposal owners: I'm the current Bacula mantainer in Fedora and will complete the transition in time for the release.
Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
Release engineering: the release engineering team should make sure the new Bareos packages are in place instead of the current Bacula packages for the new release.
Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
-- You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore (R. W. Emerson).
http://xkcd.com/229/ http://negativo17.org/
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Simone Caronni wrote:
Bareos is currently in standby following some legal issues:
Can we know what the issues are? Switching would look like a no-brainer (old unmaintained crippleware vs. new community fork), but of course, if there are legal issues with the fork… :-(
Kevin Kofler
On 11/15/2013 01:19 PM, Simone Caronni wrote:
Hello,
Bareos is currently in standby following some legal issues:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items#Bareos
It was added to the Forbidden Items list after I wrote the feature page. Until those are solved, the feature can't simply happen.
Can we get a link to the actual discussion what those legal issues are since afaik now the source code for Bareos is released under AGPL v3//?
JBG
Hello,
On 16 November 2013 02:09, Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at wrote:
Simone Caronni wrote:
Bareos is currently in standby following some legal issues:
Can we know what the issues are? Switching would look like a no-brainer (old unmaintained crippleware vs. new community fork), but of course, if there are legal issues with the fork… :-(
sorry for the delay, but some news have been posted today regarding this issue:
http://www.mail-archive.com/bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg57308.html https://www.bareos.org/en/faq/items/copyright_bacula_bareos.html
Regards, --Simone
Simone Caronni wrote:
http://www.mail-archive.com/bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg57308.html
Hmmm, that guy is painting a somewhat different picture of the situation of the 2 projects than your Change page. In particular, he claims the community version is not dead. (Is that credible?) (He does admit that Bacula is using the crippleware business model though.)
His vague allegations of copyright infringement in Bareos lack any kind of details required to verify them though.
https://www.bareos.org/en/faq/items/copyright_bacula_bareos.html
And of course the Bareos folks claim that there isn't any infringement.
So, whom can Fedora believe in this dispute? What if the vague allegations are really just FUD (as Bareos is claiming)? Then we'd be blocking a project based only on FUD and encouraging more such FUD being spread to deny competitors a place in Fedora…
Another thing that strikes me as very odd is that Bacula is apparently copyrighted by the FSFE, yet they use the crippleware business model. I thought the FSF (and the FSFE) were strongly against crippleware (or "Open Core" as they called it once in an essay)!
That said, the FSFE is probably the way out of this mess. If they are the real copyright holders, we just need to contact THEM about the issue and get a statement from them, ignoring the Bacula guy entirely.
Kevin Kofler
Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at writes:
Simone Caronni wrote:
http://www.mail-archive.com/bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg57308.html
Hmmm, that guy is painting a somewhat different picture of the situation of the 2 projects than your Change page. In particular, he claims the community version is not dead. (Is that credible?) (He does admit that Bacula is using the crippleware business model though.)
His vague allegations of copyright infringement in Bareos lack any kind of details required to verify them though.
Kern wrote new letter to the community explaining his point of view, it is available here: http://www.bacula.org/en/?page=news
On 13 Dec 2013 13:31, "Vitaly Kuznetsov" vitty@redhat.com wrote:
Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler@chello.at writes:
Simone Caronni wrote:
http://www.mail-archive.com/bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg57308.html
Hmmm, that guy is painting a somewhat different picture of the
situation of
the 2 projects than your Change page. In particular, he claims the
community
version is not dead. (Is that credible?) (He does admit that Bacula is
using
the crippleware business model though.)
His vague allegations of copyright infringement in Bareos lack any kind
of
details required to verify them though.
Kern wrote new letter to the community explaining his point of view, it is available here: http://www.bacula.org/en/?page=news
--
They settled their differences and Spot recently removed bareos from the forbidden items page if there is interest in picking this up again.
devel@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org
-
James Hogarth -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Jóhann B. Guðmundsson -
Kevin Kofler -
Simone Caronni -
Vitaly Kuznetsov