docs March 2007

docs@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

32 participants
70 discussions

Self-Introduction: Vincenzo Di Biaggio
by Vincenzo Di Biaggio 28 Mar '07

28 Mar '07

Hi! I am Vincenzo Di Biaggio, i live in San Salvo, (CH), Abruzzo, Italy ( beautifulst sea and landscapes :D ) I work in a small company that it works in the automotive (quality control) I have studied until the 4 ' year of industrial and technical institute, but I have achieved a certificate for webmastering. I would want to participate to the translation of the documentation, which it's a your choice. I know the system linux much good, I php and know to realize Internet web sites with xhtml, xml, xslt, php, msql and much moore. I love the software open-source and the translation is useful also to improve my English :°) I hope that you will accept to me, I will be much happy! -- ______________________________ Vincenzo Di Biaggio www.aniceweb.com aniceweb.wordpress.com ______________________________ gpg fingerprint= 9F02 2634 E190 A640 14F1 6FCB 2928 1DF4 E8FD BFA2

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re: more wiki cleanup
by Jason 27 Mar '07

27 Mar '07

I started working on this today (27.mar.2007). -Jason >Here's a very simple task that we could use a new volunteer's help on >-- >cleaning up our Meeting Minutes page and making sure all the meeting IRC >logs and summaries that can be found in the list archives are there. <snipped>

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-03-25 Summary
by Paul W. Frields 25 Mar '07

25 Mar '07

Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- * Karsten Wade * Paul Frields * Dimitris Glezos Absent: * Bart Couvreur * Bob Jensen * John Babich * Pavel Sadowski Summary: --------- * GSoC has extended their deadline until tomorrow, 2007-03-26. Karsten is waiting to see what proposals come in. We expect at least a PDF proposal at this point. * Paul has revamped docs-common; docs writers and editors should be updating that module. Paul will work on converting existing XML "snippets" from docs-common/common to PO, removing repetitive graphics content in favor of SVG only + tools, and reverting repository-wide CVS behavior to using "xml2po -k" so entity changes do not cause spurious translation statistic changes. * Dimitris will enter and track a request ticket on getting a translation stats cron job and a host to run it on from Infrastructure. No committee votes taken. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-03-25 IRC log
by Paul W. Frields 25 Mar '07

25 Mar '07

Sorry for the last message, here's the proper thread title for archive happiness. 12:13 < quaid> ok 12:13 * stickster just updated page with his item 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings?action… 12:13 < stickster> crud, sorry 12:13 < quaid> the first is easy 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 12:13 < quaid> there isn't a GSoC update; aiui the deadline for entries was extended to tomorrow 12:13 < stickster> Ah OK 12:13 < quaid> and I don't have a view yet into what has been proposed 12:14 < glezos> and I don't have a decision yet whether i'll participate as a student. 12:14 < quaid> but it does look like, except for FDP, Fedora didn't get as many ideas up on pages for people to propose against 12:14 < quaid> kind of our usual, "How about you dream up something you'd like to do?" 12:14 < stickster> *sigh 12:15 < stickster> I think the Board will need to start proactively dealing with this better in 2008 12:15 < quaid> hey, you know, if all we had to do was put out GNOME or something, then maybe we'd have time for niceties :) 12:15 < stickster> And to do that, we need a better planning system. I think there was an unfortunately short thread on a better project-wide calendaring system in one of the lists 12:15 < glezos> stickster, right 12:16 < quaid> ok, we can move on 12:16 < stickster> All right, my item next, yes? 12:16 < stickster> So, obviously if you look at f-docs-commits you'll see I've spent a bunch of time in Makefile.common recently 12:17 < stickster> We are now set up so people can check out single documents as a module, and automatically get docs-common included. 12:17 < quaid> but this is docs-common at ,/ v. ../? 12:17 < stickster> Things should Just Work(TM) regardless of whether you do that, or mirror the whole repository down 12:17 < stickster> gotcha! 12:17 < quaid> :) 12:18 < quaid> ok, so you dealt with the concern about multiple docs-common copies/ 12:18 < stickster> You'll see the "find-common-dir" near the top (or some name like that, can't recall off the top of my head) 12:18 < stickster> It looks in current dir first, then parents up, then looks for a system dir in case we ever get around to packaging it 12:18 < quaid> ok 12:18 * quaid kicks CVS for not supporting symlinks 12:18 < stickster> Boo-ya! 12:18 < stickster> Nah, symlinks bad for people using Windowsw 12:18 < stickster> s/sw$/s/ 12:19 < quaid> ? 12:19 < quaid> and the rest of it works on Windows? 12:19 < glezos> stickster, :) 12:19 < stickster> Well, cygwin 12:19 < quaid> well, as long as you got it to work 12:19 < stickster> OK, and... 12:20 < quaid> If it had to be a choice, cygwin would lose out 12:20 < stickster> sure 12:20 < stickster> But I think symlinks are generally a bad way of doing things anyway 12:20 < stickster> fragile 12:20 < stickster> So... 12:20 < stickster> 2. entities 12:20 < stickster> The entities files originally in docs-common/common/ are now gone (fdp-entities-<LANG>.ent) 12:21 < stickster> They were useless anyway, a pain for translators, and mostly stale 12:21 < stickster> All system wide entities have migrated to docs-common/common/entities/ using PO, the way that God intended 12:21 < stickster> Next up, I'm going to do the same for docs-common/common/ snippets like bugreporting, legalnotice, etc. 12:21 < quaid> ah, good, ok 12:22 < stickster> hang on , brb 12:22 * quaid saw cruft and didn't know which was cruft and which was gold 12:29 * quaid gets distracted in EPEL SIG meeting 12:29 < quaid> I got the new CVS bits and didn't have any questions so far 12:29 < quaid> but this is good because it simplifies the l10n process 12:30 < quaid> should we have the QSTG updated? 12:31 < quaid> or maybe wait until things settle down some more? 12:32 < glezos> dunno 12:33 < stickster> back 12:33 < glezos> quaid, I'd say that we could wait to get it done right 12:33 < glezos> It's 2 months more 12:34 < stickster> It won't be nearly that long before I have everything done 12:34 < stickster> In the next few days, after I'm done, I'll update it 12:34 < stickster> *: I also want to bring up the whole "xml2po -e" vs. "xml2po -k" thing 12:34 < stickster> I think we're better off with the latter. 12:35 < stickster> We tried it before but it didn't work because of the stupid stuff in docs-common/common/ (i.e. snippet inclusion without XInclude) 12:35 < stickster> I think we can safely go back to keeping entities in the POT/PO files now 12:35 < stickster> That means that translators will simply translate, e.g. &DISTRO; as &DISTRO; 12:36 < stickster> If we update one of them, like the Fedora release number, the translation doesn't immediately catch "the fuzzies" 12:36 < glezos> stickster, whatever you believe it's better 12:36 < stickster> Yeah, we tried to do it this way before, and fell back because we couldn't make it work 12:37 < stickster> Now we have more XML savvy and fewer crazy things we're trying to do, so things like that should now be possible again 12:38 < quaid> ok, cool 12:38 < quaid> stickster: good work, padewan 12:38 < stickster> Oh, one more thing 12:39 < stickster> I'm putting per-branch aliases in CVSROOT/modules, so you can now check out, e.g. "install-guide-devel" to get just the devel branch. It cuts down on bandwidth as well 12:39 < stickster> So, next up: 12:39 < stickster> 1. fixing snippets => XML+PO 12:39 < stickster> 2. fixing graphics => SVG+[tools] 12:40 < quaid> GuGu: we're meeting here for the next 20 minutes (or so); do you want to save your question(s) until then, then we can talk here? 12:40 < quaid> stickster: sorry, what are snippets? 12:41 < stickster> quaid: bugreporting-*.xml, legalnotice-*.xml, etc. 12:42 < stickster> all found in docs-common/common/ right now 12:42 < quaid> ah, right, those 12:42 * quaid forgot the special term 'snippet' 12:42 < quaid> ;-D 12:43 < stickster> OK, I'm done too 12:43 < stickster> couf_away is still away, so we can safely skip his item 12:44 < glezos> I have a suggestion 12:45 < glezos> that might urge translators get more Docs translated for F7 12:45 < glezos> if we had on the web some l10n statistics for cvs.fp.org, that might urge them to push their translation too 12:46 < quaid> hmm 12:46 < quaid> can we do that semi-manually? 12:46 < stickster> boo, hiss 12:46 < quaid> that is, write some Perl that dumps stats to SVG? 12:46 < stickster> heh 12:46 < quaid> err 12:46 < glezos> Sonar_Gal, would it be a good idea to ask FIP for a place to run the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#statistics 12:46 < quaid> Python I meant 12:46 < stickster> Poor Sonar_Gal 12:47 < quaid> her fault, if she chose Sonar_Gyrl, then Sonar_Guy would get all the "So[tab]" 12:47 < glezos> quaid, we could do a cron job to run this script and publish the results.. they are not pretty, but they are usable... Especially if you run them through a search-n-replace script that transforms them into an HTML table... 12:47 < quaid> +1 12:47 < quaid> at least that 12:48 < quaid> maybe an update hourly (or at :20 or something) 12:48 < glezos> quaid, should we ask FIP for l10n.fedoraproject.org? 12:48 < stickster> And translation.fp.o 12:48 < quaid> as a CNAME? 12:48 < stickster> whatever 12:49 * stickster doesn't trust people to guess "l10n" 12:49 < quaid> ok, whatever, I mena, as a pointer v. stand alone host 12:49 < stickster> Oh yeah 12:49 < quaid> then I want documentation.fp.o ! 12:49 < quaid> :D 12:49 < glezos> ok.. we could standarize on translations.fedoraproject.org and take it from there.. I guess this is something -trans-list should decide 12:49 < stickster> +1! 12:49 * quaid is all about the "docs is unprofesional, spell it out" :) 12:50 < quaid> glezos: yes, propose and see what they prefer, just as we did for docs.fp.o and then we'll put up what we have as we hae it 12:52 < glezos> k. then I'll just send an email to FIP 12:53 < quaid> cool, or file a ticket 12:53 < quaid> if there is nothing to discuss, just request 12:54 < quaid> (http://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets) 12:54 < quaid> and there we go 12:54 < quaid> anything more here? 12:55 < glezos> nah 12:55 < stickster> nope 12:55 < quaid> heh, no quorum even 12:55 < quaid> rockin', thx getns 12:55 < quaid> gents even 12:55 < quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD IRC log
by Paul W. Frields 25 Mar '07

25 Mar '07

12:13 < quaid> ok 12:13 * stickster just updated page with his item 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings?action… 12:13 < stickster> crud, sorry 12:13 < quaid> the first is easy 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 12:13 < quaid> there isn't a GSoC update; aiui the deadline for entries was extended to tomorrow 12:13 < stickster> Ah OK 12:13 < quaid> and I don't have a view yet into what has been proposed 12:14 < glezos> and I don't have a decision yet whether i'll participate as a student. 12:14 < quaid> but it does look like, except for FDP, Fedora didn't get as many ideas up on pages for people to propose against 12:14 < quaid> kind of our usual, "How about you dream up something you'd like to do?" 12:14 < stickster> *sigh 12:15 < stickster> I think the Board will need to start proactively dealing with this better in 2008 12:15 < quaid> hey, you know, if all we had to do was put out GNOME or something, then maybe we'd have time for niceties :) 12:15 < stickster> And to do that, we need a better planning system. I think there was an unfortunately short thread on a better project-wide calendaring system in one of the lists 12:15 < glezos> stickster, right 12:16 < quaid> ok, we can move on 12:16 < stickster> All right, my item next, yes? 12:16 < stickster> So, obviously if you look at f-docs-commits you'll see I've spent a bunch of time in Makefile.common recently 12:17 < stickster> We are now set up so people can check out single documents as a module, and automatically get docs-common included. 12:17 < quaid> but this is docs-common at ,/ v. ../? 12:17 < stickster> Things should Just Work(TM) regardless of whether you do that, or mirror the whole repository down 12:17 < stickster> gotcha! 12:17 < quaid> :) 12:18 < quaid> ok, so you dealt with the concern about multiple docs-common copies/ 12:18 < stickster> You'll see the "find-common-dir" near the top (or some name like that, can't recall off the top of my head) 12:18 < stickster> It looks in current dir first, then parents up, then looks for a system dir in case we ever get around to packaging it 12:18 < quaid> ok 12:18 * quaid kicks CVS for not supporting symlinks 12:18 < stickster> Boo-ya! 12:18 < stickster> Nah, symlinks bad for people using Windowsw 12:18 < stickster> s/sw$/s/ 12:19 < quaid> ? 12:19 < quaid> and the rest of it works on Windows? 12:19 < glezos> stickster, :) 12:19 < stickster> Well, cygwin 12:19 < quaid> well, as long as you got it to work 12:19 < stickster> OK, and... 12:20 < quaid> If it had to be a choice, cygwin would lose out 12:20 < stickster> sure 12:20 < stickster> But I think symlinks are generally a bad way of doing things anyway 12:20 < stickster> fragile 12:20 < stickster> So... 12:20 < stickster> 2. entities 12:20 < stickster> The entities files originally in docs-common/common/ are now gone (fdp-entities-<LANG>.ent) 12:21 < stickster> They were useless anyway, a pain for translators, and mostly stale 12:21 < stickster> All system wide entities have migrated to docs-common/common/entities/ using PO, the way that God intended 12:21 < stickster> Next up, I'm going to do the same for docs-common/common/ snippets like bugreporting, legalnotice, etc. 12:21 < quaid> ah, good, ok 12:22 < stickster> hang on , brb 12:22 * quaid saw cruft and didn't know which was cruft and which was gold 12:29 * quaid gets distracted in EPEL SIG meeting 12:29 < quaid> I got the new CVS bits and didn't have any questions so far 12:29 < quaid> but this is good because it simplifies the l10n process 12:30 < quaid> should we have the QSTG updated? 12:31 < quaid> or maybe wait until things settle down some more? 12:32 < glezos> dunno 12:33 < stickster> back 12:33 < glezos> quaid, I'd say that we could wait to get it done right 12:33 < glezos> It's 2 months more 12:34 < stickster> It won't be nearly that long before I have everything done 12:34 < stickster> In the next few days, after I'm done, I'll update it 12:34 < stickster> *: I also want to bring up the whole "xml2po -e" vs. "xml2po -k" thing 12:34 < stickster> I think we're better off with the latter. 12:35 < stickster> We tried it before but it didn't work because of the stupid stuff in docs-common/common/ (i.e. snippet inclusion without XInclude) 12:35 < stickster> I think we can safely go back to keeping entities in the POT/PO files now 12:35 < stickster> That means that translators will simply translate, e.g. &DISTRO; as &DISTRO; 12:36 < stickster> If we update one of them, like the Fedora release number, the translation doesn't immediately catch "the fuzzies" 12:36 < glezos> stickster, whatever you believe it's better 12:36 < stickster> Yeah, we tried to do it this way before, and fell back because we couldn't make it work 12:37 < stickster> Now we have more XML savvy and fewer crazy things we're trying to do, so things like that should now be possible again 12:38 < quaid> ok, cool 12:38 < quaid> stickster: good work, padewan 12:38 < stickster> Oh, one more thing 12:39 < stickster> I'm putting per-branch aliases in CVSROOT/modules, so you can now check out, e.g. "install-guide-devel" to get just the devel branch. It cuts down on bandwidth as well 12:39 < stickster> So, next up: 12:39 < stickster> 1. fixing snippets => XML+PO 12:39 < stickster> 2. fixing graphics => SVG+[tools] 12:40 < quaid> GuGu: we're meeting here for the next 20 minutes (or so); do you want to save your question(s) until then, then we can talk here? 12:40 < quaid> stickster: sorry, what are snippets? 12:41 < stickster> quaid: bugreporting-*.xml, legalnotice-*.xml, etc. 12:42 < stickster> all found in docs-common/common/ right now 12:42 < quaid> ah, right, those 12:42 * quaid forgot the special term 'snippet' 12:42 < quaid> ;-D 12:43 < stickster> OK, I'm done too 12:43 < stickster> couf_away is still away, so we can safely skip his item 12:44 < glezos> I have a suggestion 12:45 < glezos> that might urge translators get more Docs translated for F7 12:45 < glezos> if we had on the web some l10n statistics for cvs.fp.org, that might urge them to push their translation too 12:46 < quaid> hmm 12:46 < quaid> can we do that semi-manually? 12:46 < stickster> boo, hiss 12:46 < quaid> that is, write some Perl that dumps stats to SVG? 12:46 < stickster> heh 12:46 < quaid> err 12:46 < glezos> Sonar_Gal, would it be a good idea to ask FIP for a place to run the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#statistics 12:46 < quaid> Python I meant 12:46 < stickster> Poor Sonar_Gal 12:47 < quaid> her fault, if she chose Sonar_Gyrl, then Sonar_Guy would get all the "So[tab]" 12:47 < glezos> quaid, we could do a cron job to run this script and publish the results.. they are not pretty, but they are usable... Especially if you run them through a search-n-replace script that transforms them into an HTML table... 12:47 < quaid> +1 12:47 < quaid> at least that 12:48 < quaid> maybe an update hourly (or at :20 or something) 12:48 < glezos> quaid, should we ask FIP for l10n.fedoraproject.org? 12:48 < stickster> And translation.fp.o 12:48 < quaid> as a CNAME? 12:48 < stickster> whatever 12:49 * stickster doesn't trust people to guess "l10n" 12:49 < quaid> ok, whatever, I mena, as a pointer v. stand alone host 12:49 < stickster> Oh yeah 12:49 < quaid> then I want documentation.fp.o ! 12:49 < quaid> :D 12:49 < glezos> ok.. we could standarize on translations.fedoraproject.org and take it from there.. I guess this is something -trans-list should decide 12:49 < stickster> +1! 12:49 * quaid is all about the "docs is unprofesional, spell it out" :) 12:50 < quaid> glezos: yes, propose and see what they prefer, just as we did for docs.fp.o and then we'll put up what we have as we hae it 12:52 < glezos> k. then I'll just send an email to FIP 12:53 < quaid> cool, or file a ticket 12:53 < quaid> if there is nothing to discuss, just request 12:54 < quaid> (http://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets) 12:54 < quaid> and there we go 12:54 < quaid> anything more here? 12:55 < glezos> nah 12:55 < stickster> nope 12:55 < quaid> heh, no quorum even 12:55 < quaid> rockin', thx getns 12:55 < quaid> gents even 12:55 < quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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More wiki cleanup
by Paul W. Frields 25 Mar '07

25 Mar '07

Here's a very simple task that we could use a new volunteer's help on -- cleaning up our Meeting Minutes page and making sure all the meeting IRC logs and summaries that can be found in the list archives are there. Logs and summaries are probably found in the fedora-docs-list archives¹, but there might be a little material lingering in the fedora-dsco-list archives² as well. Simply update the Meetings page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings and follow the template of the logs below. (The March 18, 2005 meeting needs to follow that convention as well, so you may need to post a message to fedora-docs-list with the missing log.) Reply here if you're up to the task. Thank you! = = = = = ¹ http://redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/ ² http://redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/ -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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GSoC: Publishing man/info pages
by MBurns 22 Mar '07

22 Mar '07

Hi all, I'm interested in working on one of the Fedora bounties, specifically the 'publishing man pages' project [1]. For those that might not know, the project is to have an automated way to grab all the man and info pages from a release and put them on the web to be searched and browsed online. Extending that, putting the documentation into a wiki system is also possible (and open some interesting opportunities, in my eyes). I was wondering what some of the groups thoughts and goals of this project might be. Both so that ideas can be brought out early, but also to know what I might be getting myself into :) So I pose the questions: *Would you like to see man/info pages be online? (broken down by release version, etc, or not) *Would you want them in a wiki? *What about pushing changes on the wiki back to the maintainers of the respective packages? *Would this be a welcome addition or just more work? *What would you like to see this project accomplish in terms of Fedora Documentation? (hopefully beyond just googling for a man page and having it return a fedoraproject.org URL) Cheers! [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties#head-f4affa8058dbc6a6b0568c306… -- Michael Burns * Open Source Lab Oregon State University

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Re: DUG Review
by Rahul Sundaram 21 Mar '07

21 Mar '07

Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My conclusion is that the DUG editors, > as some others associated with Fedora, > are pushing Gnome for essentially "political" reasons, > rather than out of any consideration for prospective users. I think it has been amply clarified that this in not the case now. Looking forward to your contributions. Rahul

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Novell and Microsoft
by Nicolas A. Corrarello 21 Mar '07

21 Mar '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lets support Bruce, Richard Stallman, and everyone in the FSF. http://digg.com/linux_unix/Perens_blasts_Microsoft_Novell_protection_racket -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGAT8e4UWy+d/Ik+4RAvqzAJ93kMfdiyHiE2o9+nkIe5hGps1PawCeJ2kO +6NKCLtXHrlJcjar7dVRivY= =wBVJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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your thoughts on screenshots?
by Karsten Wade 21 Mar '07

21 Mar '07

I was explaining something this morning that I thought all could benefit from. I want to convince writers to avoid using screenshots. What do you think of this? Here are the reasons: * They are hard to translate. * They have to be redone every time there is a change in the UI (string or graphical change). - This comes from the rule, "Make certain what you tell/show the reader is 100% accurate to what they see on the screen, or the reader loses trust in you." - Changing text that refers to a UI is *much* easier to fix and translate than the same change in a screenshot. * They take up a lot of space on the screen/on paper. * They don't show anything more than the reader is already looking at in the application on their computer screen. * At most, they confirm for the reader, "Yes, I see the same thing in the documentation as I do on the screen, I am in the right place." This can be done with words alone. * A description of a screen takes up less space than a screenshot. * Since we do not want our documents to be a catalog of what can be done in a UI screen, we're never interested in everything visible to the reader. We're interested in only a subset of what is in the UI. Showing the entire UI in a screenshot is therefore distracting. * A screenshot is not the same as a diagram or other useful graphic. Okay, what are the advantages of using a screenshot? * Useful if the reader cannot read the language of the document; the screen shows them they are in the right place. * Useful if the reader believes they cannot follow a document without screenshots. * Nice for desktop tours, to show what applications look like. * Useful for when you need to define a specific term on the desktop, as in the FDUG where the elements of the desktop are explained with a graphic to show which piece it is. I would like to make this part of our guidelines. What do you all think? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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