docs May 2008

docs@lists.stg.fedoraproject.org

28 participants
53 discussions

Re: Security Guide Development Freeze
by Eric Christensen 25 May '08

25 May '08

Anthony, Thanks for the offer. Right now we are in the process of finishing up quite a few entries and hope to have everything squared away for Tuesday and the new wiki. As soon as the transition is made, I'll be posting needed material requests to the list so keep an eye out. Thanks, Eric hi Eric, my name is Anthony, and wanted to keep abreast of the progress of the security, I am new to the list and want to see where I can help,my level of english is medium, but I want to help in what may.... bytes !! 2008/5/25 Eric H Christensen <eric(a)christensenplace.us>: I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of the information. I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. Eric >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. I'd >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at >this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. > >I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come behind >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our fearless >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or >Tuesday. > >Eric > > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Anthony Mogrovejo cel 9-91681657 Consultor Junior IT Aureal Systems Linux User # 433253 Ubuntu User # 9562 --------------------------------------------------------- "Quisiera cambiar al mundo pero no me dan los RPM..."

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RE: Security Guide Development Freeze
by Eric Christensen 25 May '08

25 May '08

I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of the information. I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. Eric >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. I'd >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at >this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. > >I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come behind >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our fearless >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or >Tuesday. > >Eric > > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list

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Security Guide Development Freeze
by Eric Christensen 24 May '08

24 May '08

I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. I'd like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come behind me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our fearless leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or Tuesday. Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide

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Re: Governance
by Mike Dittmeier 23 May '08

23 May '08

I agree! As a Project Manger by choice (not design) I have always tried to have a minimal quorum to make steering decisions on what requests should actually become projects. More ideas exist than resources, and not all ideas match the goals of the Docs Project. My minimal quorum consists of a Chair and Vice Chair with a sponsor (person making the request) and the project lead (Implementer). Chair and Vice Chair should lead the direction for all projects and sub project. Without clear direction, an over abundance of ideas could lead to a loss of direction or even fragmentation of the original scope the Docs Project was designed to serve. The Sponsor and Project Leads should report status, and poll for resources to complete the projects. These last two positions should not be voted on in my opinion, only the Chair and Vice Chair. A one year term that is staggered for election purposes would mean only 2 elections a year. A little more than 2 cents, but whos counting Mike Ditt Dittmeier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Subject: Re: Governance Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:46:22 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul, What positions are needed? I could see a Chair and a Vice Chair (or whatever you wanted to call them) that would ultimately be in charge of the project. They could serve one year terms that could be staggered (one start in January and one start July). Their responsibilities would be to lead the meetings, approve draft documentation for release, and to kick butt as necessary. My opinion... Eric Paul W. Frields wrote: | re: This part of Wednesday's meeting: | = = = = = | * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. | Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does | governance matter to folks? | ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs | ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? | = = = = = | | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects | | According to the current policy, to be a "project" (meaning an official | subproject) there has to be some sort of governance in place, "possibly | including an election or selection scheme." So we have some leeway to | do what we think needs to be done to empower Docs to get things done. | If elections are too often, too much, too early, or whatever the popular | opinion may be, I think we just need to decide on what the new scheme | will be. | | Would it make sense, rather than to have a sort of "global Docs | committee" like FDSCo, instead just have people who agree to take up the | banner for particular interest areas, and we could still meet regularly | as we do now? Those assignments could be somewhat formal in nature, and | noted on the wiki so community members know who's responsible for each | area. | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg22LoACgkQL5V8yddJCO3NGQCfZZi1gH2xYfLw04JzMh08uvZd KSkAnjrIroI2e4GXYll42kgoulu0TmG8 =D6QP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Mike Dittmeier mike(a)vegasitpros.com

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Governance
by Paul W. Frields 23 May '08

23 May '08

re: This part of Wednesday's meeting: = = = = = * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does governance matter to folks? ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? = = = = = http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects According to the current policy, to be a "project" (meaning an official subproject) there has to be some sort of governance in place, "possibly including an election or selection scheme." So we have some leeway to do what we think needs to be done to empower Docs to get things done. If elections are too often, too much, too early, or whatever the popular opinion may be, I think we just need to decide on what the new scheme will be. Would it make sense, rather than to have a sort of "global Docs committee" like FDSCo, instead just have people who agree to take up the banner for particular interest areas, and we could still meet regularly as we do now? Those assignments could be somewhat formal in nature, and noted on the wiki so community members know who's responsible for each area. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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FDSCo Elections and what that means
by Eric Christensen 23 May '08

23 May '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just looked at the Log [1] and Summary [2] for last Wednesday's FDSCo meeting. One of the things that was going to be taken to the list (the one you are reading now) is the current election scheme. Being relatively new to the Fedora Project, I'd like to hear from one of our fearless leaders what the elected positions are, what they do, and how our current election system is setup. Eric [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00089.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00090.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg2y7UACgkQL5V8yddJCO26zwCaA301jSlNNEsVl2SFseD1VsTo OR0An0WDt7gps9yakI8LuGKUdo7y7771 =twK4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Ambassadors] Re: Only a DVD writer is required!!! Please help...
by "G" 23 May '08

23 May '08

Hi Satish > u are right , we should have version numbers, ... .but one more thing is , i > guess many of those who would like to have the media wont be aware that such > a list exists , .... how can we make it more popular ? 1.The Lugs should/could have a webpage for CDs right? so we people have to make sure that the link which currently would point to their own people should point to the fedoraproject<Location> web page which would be of real help 2. People should first be aware that there exists a program called Free Media. I am very sure that Lot of People now a days know about Ubuntu's shipit so similarly this program should take flight. I guess the new wiki which is shaping up could give importance to this page by adding a link in the home page itself inside (Get-Fedora link) so that the Free media program gains even more momentum too. Cheers, Balaji On 5/23/08, Satish Eerpini <eerpini(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hi balaji , .. > u are right , we should have version numbers, ... .but one more thing is , i > guess many of those who would like to have the media wont be aware that such > a list exists , .... how can we make it more popular ? > > Thanks > -Satish > > > On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:00 AM, G <balajig81(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > > Currently I am writing Fedora 9 dvds. > > > > Please update your name in the wiki with your email ID in the > > appropriate location that you represent if you have not done it as > > yet. > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/India/LocalContacts > > > > And What about the version numbers ? How would people come to know > > what we posses ?. I guess version numbers are most important here > > > > Cheers > > Balaji > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/23/08, Vignesh <vignesh1986(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Currently I am writing Fedora 9 dvds. > > > > > > Regards > > > Vignesh > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/08, G <balajig81(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > I ve updated the wiki with my name in the list for chennai. I would > > > > also like to know how would the users get to know what versions of > > > > fedora do ambassadors have currently. This information would be really > > > > helpful . I am not able to find this information on that page so it > > > > would be really good if we could also update the version of the fedora > > > > Images that we have so that we could write it on to the DVD. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Balaji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/08, susmit shannigrahi <thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > * This is for increasing Fedora Media's availability in India. > > > > > > > > > > * Please note, you need not spend _any_ money. > > > > > > > > > > * If you have a DVD writer and can donate a few minutes from your > > > > > busy schedule, please list your name here.[1] > > > > > > > > > > * When users contact you, ask them to meet you with a blank CD/DVD > as > > > > > and when your time permits. > > > > > All you need is to burn the CD/DVD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/India/LocalContacts > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Susmit. > > > > > > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > ssh > > > > > 0x86DD170A > > > > > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com > > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > -- > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > >

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FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-21 Summary
by Karsten Wade 22 May '08

22 May '08

Attendees: ----------- Paul W. Frields (stickster) Bart Couvreur (couf) Jared Smith (jsmith) Karsten Wade (quaid) John Babich (jmbuser) Summary: --------- * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does governance matter to folks? ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? * Relnotes update for F9 ** POT/PO sent to L10n * First priority content work is supporting SIGs ** http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport ** Need to cross-link SIG work to section in the Get Involved Guide (GIG) * Populate GIG with pointers to the basic Join processes ** Focus on WHY and WHAT *** Discussed after meeting in #fedora-docs that we need to explain that a contributor has to bring something TO Fedora to get something FROM Fedora; by focusing on what one brings, it helps get the process started on the right path. ** couf to work on this content * Wiki migrating on 27 May, premigration on 23 May ** Spend some time looking at the as-migrated wiki between then, working on fixing stuff ** https://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ * Clarify update to Docs focus ** Write in to wiki ** Update to list, announce-list ** Wait for new GIG pages? ** quaid to work on this

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FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-21 IRC log
by Karsten Wade 22 May '08

22 May '08

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minute… 12:02 < quaid> <meeting> 12:02 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo hangin' out -- roll call and opening number 12:03 < quaid> KarstenWade, estoy aqui 12:03 * stickster present and accounted for 12:03 * couf 12:03 < jsmith> JaredSmith... estoy aqui tambien 12:03 < jsmith> (Well, for various definitions of "here") 12:04 < quaid> ok, I have weird networking stuff but this ssh seems ok, so ... 12:05 * jsmith twiddles the bits on quaid's router 12:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo talking -- Elections 12:05 < stickster> Ah, elections. 12:05 -!- mbonnet [n=mikeb(a)c-24-218-108-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:06 -!- mbonnet [n=mikeb(a)c-24-218-108-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:06 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 12:06 * stickster hopes quaid didn't disappera 12:06 < quaid> no, I'm here 12:06 < stickster> From the Spanish for "disappear." (apologies.0 12:06 < quaid> I want to troubleshoot but then I'd drop 12:07 -!- Southern_Gentlem [n=notfred@unaffiliated/southerngentlem/x-2894754] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 < quaid> ok, anyway 12:08 -!- SMParrish [n=steven(a)cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08 < quaid> I'm beginning to feel like we have too many elections around here :) 12:08 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 100 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 99 normal] 12:08 -!- SMParrish [n=steven(a)cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 < couf> I second that 12:08 < quaid> and I'm a bit unclear if we have achieved the steps to setup a new Chair around here. 12:09 < quaid> so I'm open for discussion on the topic in that vein and others 12:10 < couf> unfortunately the new-to-be chair isn't around :-/ 12:10 < stickster> Yeah, it's difficult to have this conversation without him 12:11 < quaid> ok 12:11 < stickster> Has anyone thought about Docs in light of Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and whether we might actually enjoy *better* success -- and a better ruler against which to measure ourselves -- as a SIG? 12:11 < stickster> That could be total crazy talk. 12:11 < quaid> stickster: um, see ... 12:11 < quaid> that is crazy talk 12:11 < stickster> OK 12:12 < quaid> Docs is a clear example of a subproject 12:12 < quaid> in the role-based SIG world 12:12 < quaid> there would be a Documentor in each SIG focused on that SIG content 12:12 < quaid> and that person is *also* a memmber of the Docs Project (Subproj) 12:12 < quaid> make sense? 12:13 < Southern_Gentlem> or should be 12:13 < quaid> that said, we were discussing governance here a few hours ago, and Jeff didn't even know that we require elections for Projects 12:13 < quaid> Southern_Gentlem: refer to "in the role-based SIG world" 12:14 -!- giarc_w [i=hidden-u(a)gnat.asiscan.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:14 < couf> so basiclly we would be a resource subproject working for the SIGs? 12:15 < quaid> that's basically it 12:15 < stickster> Well, I think what quaid is saying is that we'd "embed" with them 12:15 < stickster> Is that a good characterization of it? 12:15 < quaid> sure 12:15 * couf tries to get the whole role-based SIG concept here 12:15 < couf> right, gotcha 12:15 < quaid> the idea is to get people working on what interests them 12:16 < quaid> and filling roles there more than "packaging" 12:17 < couf> +1 12:17 < quaid> so, elections and governance ... 12:17 < quaid> on-list? 12:17 < quaid> move to, that is 12:18 < stickster> +1 12:18 < couf> maybe, but we *should* get a clear POV from John, personal mail could help 12:18 < couf> just to make sure we don't keep pushing this back 12:20 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle(a)bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["-ENOBRAIN"] 12:22 < Southern_Gentlem> what can be done to lower the barriers for people to get involved in the docs project 12:22 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser(a)195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:22 < jmbuser> JohnBabich late 12:23 < Southern_Gentlem> some people see it a litte extreme to have to get on cvs just to get a tutorial on how to do docs 12:23 < stickster> Southern_Gentlem: You missed last week's meeting :-) 12:23 < stickster> jmbuser! hi! 12:24 < quaid> hey jmbuser 12:24 < jmbuser> quaid: hey 12:24 < quaid> we're discussing governance 12:24 < jmbuser> stickster: hi 12:24 < jmbuser> carry on... 12:24 < stickster> Southern_Gentlem: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00032.html 12:24 < quaid> do we need elections, etc. 12:25 < quaid> this often, etc. 12:25 < quaid> I still think it might be an on list discussion 12:25 < quaid> to have. 12:27 < stickster> Me sees that 20 minutes have gone by one topic, and not much said about it. Sounds like a clear "silence gives consent" for the ML. 12:27 < quaid> right on 12:27 < jmbuser> +1 12:27 < quaid> elections discussion on list etc. 12:27 < lfoppiano> Hi all, sry fro delay.... 12:27 < lfoppiano> *for 12:28 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo chilling -- Relnotes, Guides, other content 12:28 -!- RodrigoPadula [n=RodrigoP(a)189.25.241.29] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:29 < lfoppiano> uhm...I lost elections... .-/ 12:29 < lfoppiano> :s/lost/miss/g 12:29 < quaid> lfoppiano: we're moving the topic to the mailing list 12:29 < quaid> ok, wsa there something to sayabout the relnotes? 12:30 * quaid hsa to be excused for typos, bad connetion, no tim e to edit 12:30 < lfoppiano> no 12:30 < stickster> mdious has been keeping up with these, and we should have a new package rolled later in the week 12:30 < couf> mdious has been syncing in the last bits 12:30 < stickster> Or maybe weekend 12:31 < quaid> ok, UG and other end-user content is second priority after Fedora contributor-oriented content 12:31 < quaid> I created http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport 12:31 < quaid> just so we can track who is "embedded" where 12:32 < quaid> note that Docs is supporting any contributor area, SIG and subproject alike; just put it all on that one page for now. 12:33 < couf> do we want to formalize a process for these guys, and join-pages updates etc 12:33 * stickster has to make a call, will continue lurking here 12:34 < quaid> couf: we could; we also need to talk to the various grops and see what they want to do 12:34 < quaid> can someone add JohnStanley to that page as writing for BugTriage? 12:35 < couf> sure 12:36 < couf> that is if the wiki wants to let me 12:36 < quaid> it'll be better than what I have right now 12:36 * couf can't wait next weeks move 12:36 < quaid> so, update on that 12:37 < quaid> we are doing a premigration on the 23rd 12:37 < quaid> (barring problems) 12:37 < quaid> then doing a re-import of what has changed from 23 to 27 on the 27th 12:37 < quaid> that way we have some days to get things nicer before the actual migration is called 12:37 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 12:37 < quaid> the old wiki will be up for some time in read-only, hidden from search engines mode 12:39 < couf> wow, fast save for slow wiki 12:39 < quaid> ok, so then the next thing is ... 12:39 < quaid> we need to tell folks that Docs is here to help them solve their internal docs problems 12:39 < quaid> maybe just make the GIG a first output along those lines 12:40 < quaid> so, let's add to that SIGSupport page a link to the section in the GIG that corresponds, so we can have the same people own that content creation 12:40 -!- jeff_hann [n=arares(a)89.40.98.185] has quit [] 12:42 < couf> +1 12:43 < jmbuser> +1 12:44 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle(a)bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:44 * jmbuser makes slowest response in Fedora meeting history 12:44 * quaid is still waiting for his last typing to appear on the screen 12:44 < quaid> oh, wait, it did 12:45 < quaid> ok, then ... 12:45 < couf> so shall we first get some basic "this is how you join Fedora"-instructions into the GIG, then spread the new mantra/offering to the world, and move on? 12:45 < quaid> couf: well, those are already there; GIG can have that, but should focus more on the SIGs/Subprojects 12:45 < quaid> oh 12:45 < quaid> you mean 12:45 < quaid> write that in first, stub out the pages, then announce, "come and fill and get some help with your contrib docs"? 12:46 * quaid sniffs a possible plan 12:46 < couf> yeah 12:46 < quaid> +1 12:46 < jmbuser> cool 12:47 < quaid> anyone feel they have the time to focus on the GIG to make that happen in a short timeframe? 12:47 < couf> I could have a stab at it 12:48 < quaid> coo' couf 12:48 < quaid> Action: couf stab at GIG basic intro/join Fedora 12:48 < couf> check 12:48 < quaid> Action: then we send out announcements about the change in Docs focus/role 12:48 < quaid> Action: meanwhile, feel free to blog about it at some point :) 12:49 * jmbuser needs to start blogging again 12:49 < quaid> word 12:49 -!- juank_prada [n=juanky(a)200.114.38.35] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:49 < quaid> get addicted! 12:49 < quaid> ok, anything more on this topic? 12:49 * quaid adds some more actionnotes 12:49 < quaid> Action: election and governance to the list 12:50 < quaid> any other ones I missed? 12:50 < couf> not that I know off 12:50 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo chats -- All Other Bidness 12:51 < quaid> ten minutes to go and the flo' is open 12:51 < couf> time frame on cvs kill? 12:52 < quaid> hmm 12:53 < quaid> reality? F10 or later because of content actively in there, right? 12:53 < quaid> we are maintaining docs back to F8 12:53 < quaid> so we might need it opened until F9 EOLs 12:53 < quaid> that said! 12:53 < couf> ah right gpl and all that 12:54 < quaid> we can move on from here, migrate guides for new work in to fedorahosted.org 12:54 < quaid> couf: also, it works to build from there for those versions, why risk a move? it will be for maintainers only at that point anyway 12:54 < quaid> that's my off-the-cuff assessment 12:55 < couf> sure :) 12:55 < quaid> I'd say, any guides we want to publish for F9+ should get a stand alone fedorahosted.org project, SCM of choice, and rock on 12:56 < quaid> not sure if we have to update any part of bugzilla there or not 12:56 < couf> and toolchain needs to get in there too 12:57 -!- J5 [n=quintice@nat/redhat-us/x-f2a63c3e81ce4477] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:58 -!- sereinity [n=sereinit(a)mon69-3-82-235-39-70.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["su -c'rm -rf /'"] 12:58 < couf> so I might try that after the GIG stuff 12:58 < quaid> aye, that's true 12:58 < couf> as part of my will to work on the toolchain 12:58 < quaid> ok, that's about it 12:58 < quaid> anything else for today? 12:59 < quaid> I'ma closin' 12:59 < couf> +1 12:59 < quaid> 30 12:59 < quaid> ~~ time warp ~~ 12:59 < quaid> 5 12:59 < quaid> 4 12:59 < quaid> 3 12:59 < quaid> 2 12:59 < quaid> 1 12:59 < quaid> </meeting>

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Toolchain meeting 2008-05-22 IRC log
by Paul W. Frields 22 May '08

22 May '08

[22 May 21:05] * stickster here [22 May 21:05] <jsmith> [22 May 21:05] * jsmith here [22 May 21:05] <jfearn> jfearn, here [22 May 21:05] <mdious> jsmith: MOIN! [22 May 21:06] <jsmith> Howdy mdious [22 May 21:06] <jsmith> Howdy jfearn [22 May 21:06] <asgeirf> hello folks :) [22 May 21:07] <jmtaylor> [22 May 21:07] * jmtaylor waves and sits back down [22 May 21:07] <Tsagadai> morning [22 May 21:07] <jfearn> jsmith, g'day :0 [22 May 21:07] <stickster> All righty, no quaid I guess [22 May 21:08] <stickster> He was having some router problems earlier today, maybe he took the hammer to it. [22 May 21:08] <stickster> What we want to do here is figure out where to go with the docs toolchain. [22 May 21:09] <stickster> The whole Fedora Docs Project is being revamped to an extent [22 May 21:09] <stickster> And what we were going to try to do is move any large docs people want to maintain out into their own hosted projects. [22 May 21:10] <stickster> That way a community can gather around them independently of the CVS and toolchain we've loped along with for years. [22 May 21:10] <stickster> The question remains, what in our toolchain is worth keeping? [22 May 21:11] <stickster> i.e., things where we can just plug in publican, for example [22 May 21:11] <jsmith> Well, I think (from my own experience) that there's probably a lot worth keeping (or incorporating into Publican)... I just don't know it as well as I do Publican [22 May 21:11] <jsmith> Last I heard from quaid, he was worried about the translation stuff [22 May 21:11] <stickster> There's a few clever bits in it, I'm pretty sure, thanks to people who worked on it in the past [22 May 21:11] <mdious> I think the release notes wiki/xml scripts are worth keeping around.... [22 May 21:12] <stickster> So our toolchain is basically bound up in the docs-common module in our CVS right now. [22 May 21:13] <Tsagadai> moving away from wiki is a good thing. publican is certainly easier for i18n [22 May 21:14] <stickster> Tsagadai: Well, I'm not sure we're looking at moving away from the wiki for things like the release notes [22 May 21:14] <stickster> In fact, we're looking at extending MediaWiki i18n [22 May 21:14] <stickster> (not Docs, but the Websites guys) [22 May 21:14] <Tsagadai> I like your idea of individual docs projects, stickster. guides are quite different from release notes [22 May 21:15] <asgeirf> publican is easier for translation from the aspect of checking out the whole project from VCS. the current toolchain integrates better with the current translation statistics/transifex system. The transifex developers are working on addressing the issue :) [22 May 21:15] <stickster> The release notes, as I see it, are sort of an animal on their own. [22 May 21:15] <mdious> opensuse wiki is fully localized - very hawt hawt hawt: http://www.opensuse.org/ [22 May 21:15] <stickster> mdious: Actually, if you look at their process -- it's all manual! [22 May 21:15] <stickster> We want to find a way to do MediaWiki in an i18n-friendly way [22 May 21:16] <ryanlerch> individual docs projects might be less daunting for new contributors... [22 May 21:16] <stickster> I think we might try to get OpenSuSE to put some muscle into it too [22 May 21:16] <stickster> ryanlerch: I agree. [22 May 21:16] <stickster> So each of these "book" (or sizable "article") projects could be a fedorahosted.org project. [22 May 21:17] <stickster> Then the *Fedora installable part* could be in the regular Fedora source code management, the same way any other package is. [22 May 21:18] <stickster> A spec file, BuildRequires: publican, etc., and it can be maintained, built, and shipped in Fedora. [22 May 21:18] <stickster> The "upstream" for that package would be at fedorahosted.org [22 May 21:18] <jfearn> publican can spit out spec and srpms based on the docbook [22 May 21:19] <mdious> ryanlerch: you're such a publican and graphics ninja, when will you be sitting next to me at work... [22 May 21:19] <stickster> We could check that out with the package maintainer folks [22 May 21:20] <stickster> I have a feeling that for consistency, anything we want to roll in the distro would need to have a specfile sitting in the Packages CVS [22 May 21:20] <stickster> (which hopefully will be replaced some day not too far off with a better SCM) [22 May 21:20] <jfearn> stickster, sure, but you create it from you book source and check it in to the CVS repo for building [22 May 21:21] <stickster> jfearn: Exactly what I was thinking [22 May 21:21] <stickster> And I suppose there's no harm in it being duplicated in the fedorahosted tree because other downstreams (like opensuse) could use it if desired. [22 May 21:21] <stickster> sorry, "it" == "spec file" [22 May 21:22] <stickster> The point being, we really need to decouple our toolchain from the docs themselves. [22 May 21:22] <jsmith> Exactly... [22 May 21:22] <stickster> What I think we need help with is going through the stuff in docs-common, characterizing it, and finding out where there are potential things we could RFE into publican [22 May 21:23] <stickster> If someone wants to spin off some other toolchain, the more the merrier [22 May 21:23] <mdious> andyfitz was saying http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/en/pres/co/ this is good.... [22 May 21:23] <mdious> (http://scenari-platform.org/trac/scenari/wiki/SCENARIbuilder) [22 May 21:24] <jfearn> that scenari looks rockin for interactive stuff [22 May 21:25] <stickster> Is that open source? [22 May 21:25] <jfearn> stickster, yeah, gpl [22 May 21:25] * stickster having a hard time digging through the flashy site :-D [22 May 21:25] <jmtaylor> french only though atm? [22 May 21:26] <stickster> Um... holy crap [22 May 21:26] <mdious> jmtaylor: the error messages are a bit hard to decode... [22 May 21:26] <stickster> that's pretty wild [22 May 21:26] <jmtaylor> mdious: I bet :) [22 May 21:26] <andyfitz> the up to date content is in french [22 May 21:26] *** You disconnected [22 May 21:26] *** You connected [22 May 21:26] <mdious> I think if you want to try it, go for http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/files/SCENARIchain/lin/latestS… ;) [22 May 21:27] <andyfitz> and their upstream format is not exactly docbook [22 May 21:27] <andyfitz> but their editor is what im keen on [22 May 21:27] <andyfitz> its xul [22 May 21:27] <stickster> Whoops [22 May 21:27] <jmtaylor> definately neat [22 May 21:27] <andyfitz> is a _good_ visual editor [22 May 21:27] <jfearn> I could imagine a whole website dedicated to interactive walk throughs based on that [22 May 21:28] <stickster> The interactive training bit seems pretty interesting to me [22 May 21:28] <stickster> All right, well back to the agenda here [22 May 21:29] <stickster> So some of the things that we might want to capture from the existing toolchain are... (anyone pitch in as desired) [22 May 21:29] <stickster> jfearn: How does publican handle OMF creation? [22 May 21:30] * stickster will continue asking dummy questions, be warned... [22 May 21:30] <jfearn> stickster, it has a stub atm, not well tested [22 May 21:31] <stickster> We create OMF's using just some XSLT IIRC [22 May 21:31] <jsmith> [22 May 21:31] * jsmith wishes Conglomerate were a bit more robust [22 May 21:32] * stickster hands jsmith a long, white beard. [22 May 21:32] <andyfitz> conglomerate is the biggest tease to every technical writer... hence my interest in the senari designer [22 May 21:32] <jsmith> OMF? [22 May 21:33] <jfearn> stickster, we switched to html-single for desktop docs, the OMF stuff would be easy to fix if you want xml on the gnome desktop [22 May 21:33] <jsmith> [22 May 21:33] * jsmith can't remember what OMF stands for [22 May 21:33] <stickster> Object Metadata Framework? [22 May 21:33] * stickster digs back into cobwebs of brain [22 May 21:33] <stickster> It's basically a metadata container about another data file [22 May 21:34] <stickster> In this case, scrollkeeper uses OMF to record documentation available on your system [22 May 21:34] <stickster> GNOME Help Viewer (yelp) scans these to present docs in the Help browser [22 May 21:34] <jsmith> Ah, gotcha [22 May 21:35] <jsmith> I knew I'd heard the acronym before [22 May 21:35] <stickster> jfearn: Something else that might be useful is the SVG idea for logos or such [22 May 21:35] <stickster> We have some bits in docs-common/images/ that we used for the watermarks [22 May 21:36] <stickster> A possible application might be SVG based diagrams that you want to include in a document but still have it translated [22 May 21:37] <stickster> There might be some hurdles there but it's a thought [22 May 21:37] <jfearn> stickster, publican handles per-brand and per-language image files [22 May 21:37] <andyfitz> not many, gnome doc utils makes translating svg easy [22 May 21:37] <stickster> jfearn: How are those image files created? [22 May 21:38] <andyfitz> inkscape [22 May 21:38] <jfearn> stickster, by andyfitz ;) [22 May 21:38] <stickster> haha [22 May 21:38] <stickster> So they're stored with a publican doc as .svg? [22 May 21:39] <jfearn> stickster, yeah [22 May 21:39] <stickster> awesome [22 May 21:39] * stickster continues asking more Publican 101 questions. [22 May 21:40] <stickster> jfearn: Is publican pretty much DocBook version-agnostic at this point? [22 May 21:40] <andyfitz> in a typical pulican workflow, content is docbook xml and images are svg xml.. both can be translated and rendered to different formats together or apart [22 May 21:40] <mdious> [22 May 21:40] * mdious glares at Red Hat campers [22 May 21:40] <stickster> andyfitz: Exactly what I was hoping for, cool. [22 May 21:40] <jfearn> stickster, yes, but it deafults to 4.5 [22 May 21:40] <stickster> Cool, so XInclude support is there. [22 May 21:41] <jfearn> stickster, oh yeah [22 May 21:42] <stickster> jsmith: What were some of the things you saw in the current F-Docs toolchain that we would want to capture? [22 May 21:45] <stickster> jfearn: Seems to me we could continue to build HTML copies, apply CSS, and publish as needed, just as you guys do I'm sure [22 May 21:45] <jfearn> stickster, you just set your barnd to fedora and you have the whole payload [22 May 21:45] <jfearn> brand [22 May 21:45] <stickster> Here's what I'm thinking... maybe we should try doing this with the documentation-guide as a test doc. [22 May 21:46] <stickster> I think the release notes are pretty much the oddball when it comes to our documentation modules, overall. [22 May 21:46] <stickster> Oh wait. [22 May 21:46] <stickster> What I just said makes absolutely no sense. [22 May 21:46] <stickster> Because the whole guide will essentially be wrong as soon as we start in on it! [22 May 21:47] <stickster> Maybe instead we could try something like the rpm guide. [22 May 21:47] <stickster> AHA! [22 May 21:47] <jfearn> stickster, I already did the rpm guide, so that is a good choice :P [22 May 21:47] <stickster> Well, phooey. [22 May 21:47] <stickster> Oh, you mean you tested on it? [22 May 21:47] * stickster thought for a minute it was already out there in fedorahosted land and he misse dit [22 May 21:48] <jfearn> stickster, I ported it to publican, but it doesn't have any translations so it's easy [22 May 21:48] <quaid> [22 May 21:48] * quaid stumbles in after beating his network into submission [22 May 21:48] <stickster> jfearn: So we should go to Phase II, which is moving that puppy to fedorahosted.org. [22 May 21:48] <quaid> sorry, 'twas unavoidable [22 May 21:48] <stickster> quaid: np, there's a big buffer waiting for you though :-D [22 May 21:49] <stickster> jfearn: we could put it in git! w00t [22 May 21:49] <stickster> Anyhow, once we have that set up, we could do a standard package review bug entry in bugzilla, get the package approved, and try this out. [22 May 21:49] <jfearn> stickster, lol, yeah we could [22 May 21:50] <stickster> The fedorahosted site would include instructions for how to download and contribute to the doc, with a few easy commands. [22 May 21:51] <stickster> Bingo, spread the docs work out to the community. [22 May 21:51] <jfearn> stickster, git might be a big step for some contributers [22 May 21:51] <stickster> Yeah, I was kinda joking ;-) [22 May 21:51] <stickster> SVN though. Please for the love of all that's holy, no CVS. [22 May 21:52] <jfearn> yeah, SVN is the ... comfortable choice [22 May 21:52] <mdious> jfearn: maybe you could open source the svn tutorial we have here :P [22 May 21:52] <mdious> and build it with publican [22 May 21:52] <stickster> I've been getting to know git, and if you're just doing work like you would in SVN, there's really no more of a bar there. [22 May 21:52] <stickster> But that's a sidebar... SVN is peachy for me. [22 May 21:53] <stickster> (weeds) [22 May 21:53] <stickster> OK, so what're our next actions then? [22 May 21:54] <quaid> [22 May 21:54] * quaid is all caught up on buffer [22 May 21:54] <stickster> 1. Get a fedorahosted project for rpm-guide (SVN preferably) [22 May 21:54] <stickster> 2. Enter the doc there [22 May 21:54] <stickster> & make sure it builds as needed [22 May 21:55] <jfearn> 0. find a _writer_ to own the package, since we want to test how it works for the target audience [22 May 21:55] <stickster> jfearn: Ah, thank you, that's right -- we no longer have that maintainer around these parts. [22 May 21:56] <quaid> maybe we need an active doc then [22 May 21:56] <quaid> software management guide, for example [22 May 21:56] <jfearn> does it have translations? [22 May 21:56] <stickster> I believe so [22 May 21:56] <jfearn> rock [22 May 21:57] <jfearn> brb [22 May 21:58] <quaid> also, don't we want a new fh.o project for docs-common? [22 May 21:58] <quaid> give it a new name and start tearing it apart [22 May 21:58] <quaid> or are you thinking we won't need a wrapper toolchain [22 May 21:58] <stickster> quaid: You know, I've been looking at it on and off for the past few hours [22 May 21:58] <quaid> and push RFEs into publican? [22 May 21:58] <stickster> quaid: And I think most of it, honestly? is "file 13" fodder. [22 May 21:59] <stickster> And that's tough to say, seeing how many hours of my life I spent figuring it out and then trying to keep it working over the past two+ years. [22 May 21:59] <stickster> But hey! It was a great learning experience. :-D [22 May 21:59] <quaid> oh, sure, everything from the garden [22 May 21:59] <quaid> turns into compost [22 May 21:59] <quaid> or [22 May 22:00] <mdious> quaid: wrapper toolchain? [22 May 22:00] <quaid> oh, wait, [22 May 22:00] <quaid> is this a mixed channel? [22 May 22:00] <quaid> [22 May 22:00] * quaid won't say what else the garden turns into then [22 May 22:00] <jfearn> it would probably be a good idea to spin publican-fedora in to a seperate project and hand that over to the fedora docs team [22 May 22:00] <quaid> -1 [22 May 22:00] <stickster> Yeah, sounds forky to me [22 May 22:00] <quaid> we can't maintain an upstream like that [22 May 22:01] <jfearn> OK, but that is the equiv of docs-common in publican [22 May 22:01] <stickster> Why wouldn't we want to have a joint upstream project like a freeIPA or whatever? [22 May 22:01] <stickster> This doesn't have to turn into, for example, "Dump bugs on jfearn, woohoo" [22 May 22:02] <jfearn> stickster, well publican-fedora is the fedora specifc branding of publican output [22 May 22:02] <quaid> right, we have resources to help with upstream [22 May 22:02] <quaid> that is the Fedora way, not to own the upsteam (per se), but to work there actively. [22 May 22:03] <stickster> Yeah, I think we should definitely provide resources to participate [22 May 22:04] <jfearn> no problem, it's just that a seperate docs-common package is basically what publican-fedora is :) [22 May 22:04] <stickster> Yeah [22 May 22:04] <stickster> I think what I'm saying is, I'm at a point where I want to "call it a day" with the old docs-common [22 May 22:04] <jfearn> [22 May 22:04] * jfearn fetches the shovel [22 May 22:04] <quaid> right O [22 May 22:05] <quaid> compost and ... other stuff [22 May 22:05] <stickster> I still think that relying on the kdesdk-utils is a much heavier footprint for this stuff, but meh. [22 May 22:05] <stickster> If someone *really* cares about it, let them port it or whatever. [22 May 22:05] <jfearn> stickster, there is a bug opened to split out the two binaries we use from that [22 May 22:06] <stickster> jfearn: Actually, that's done [22 May 22:06] <jfearn> stickster, yay! [22 May 22:06] <stickster> kdesdk-utils now exists, only contains those two [22 May 22:06] <stickster> That's why I was trying to rebuild publican here -- testing a specfile patch [22 May 22:06] <jfearn> stickster, it shouldn't need a pacth since it requires the files not a package [22 May 22:07] <stickster> jfearn: Did I forget to update? [22 May 22:07] <jfearn> my typing is extra lysdexic today :/ [22 May 22:07] <stickster> jfearn: Hm, in the F-9 branch it's still 'Requires: kdesdk' [22 May 22:07] <jfearn> stickster, ahh no, it's fixed in the new version in SVN [22 May 22:07] <stickster> Aha [22 May 22:08] <stickster> jfearn: So what I did was basically just to make that 'kdesdk-utils' and move on [22 May 22:08] <jfearn> fixed: upstream :P [22 May 22:08] <jfearn> stickster, yeah [22 May 22:09] <jfearn> although the build is busted in F9 for some reason :/ [22 May 22:09] <stickster> jfearn: That's what I was encountering, I'm pretty sure ;-) [22 May 22:09] <mdious> mmm, these cornflakes are super good today [22 May 22:10] * stickster throws ice cream at mdious [22 May 22:10] <jfearn> stickster, funny it built in dvel before the cvs update [22 May 22:10] <mdious> nom nom nom [22 May 22:10] <stickster> So quaid -- maybe that is a list topic then -- who will own the SMG in fedorahosted? [22 May 22:10] <stickster> jsmith did the new porting of content [22 May 22:11] <Tsagadai> mdious don't make me tell susan :D [22 May 22:11] <stickster> but he's awful busy these days. [22 May 22:11] <mdious> Tsagadai: just don't tell her I have banana on them too.... [22 May 22:12] <stickster> quaid: We need someone who's capable of recording the tasks of putting a doc into fedorahosted, I suppose -- that would be something we'd want to have in our process doc. [22 May 22:12] <jmtaylor> stickster: if jsmith is too busy I would be willing [22 May 22:12] <stickster> jmtaylor: ^^^ [22 May 22:13] <stickster> jmtaylor: So you'd approach this from the standpoint of, "I'm a new writer, how do I put a doc I've made (publican or otherwise) somewhere the community can work on it with me?" [22 May 22:13] <stickster> And as questions arise, we all help find the answers and you scribble them down for later use by every other guy who comes after :-D [22 May 22:14] <stickster> That becomes the basis for new content in the Documentation Guide. [22 May 22:14] <stickster> Get it? [22 May 22:14] <jmtaylor> stickster: since we are at ground zero, makes sense to me [22 May 22:14] <stickster> :-)

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