docs March 2010

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Multimedia beat on wiki
by Nathan Thomas 18 Mar '10

18 Mar '10

1 0

Conversion Howto - Log
by John J. McDonough 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

We got off on a bit of a tangent here testing mw-render, but it seems to work. As a result, tho, the log is a little longer than it should be. 00:20:03 <jjmcd> #startmeeting Converting wiki to git 00:20:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 18 00:20:03 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:20:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:20:15 <jjmcd> #chair stickster, laubersm 00:20:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd laubersm stickster 00:20:40 * jjmcd is typing url on other machine 00:20:47 <laubersm> ok - jjmcd correct me if I am wrong here... first I want to make sure I have a current git pull of r-n and am on the correct branch... 00:20:58 <jjmcd> yeah 00:20:59 <laubersm> Then I want to open wiki to the correct page... 00:21:12 <jjmcd> To begin, you need to have git and publican installed 00:21:14 <laubersm> care to review for the crowd the details on those and what == correct 00:21:20 <jjmcd> yep 00:21:34 <jjmcd> To get the release notes 00:21:58 <jjmcd> git clone ssh://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/release-notes.git 00:22:15 <jjmcd> If you don't have commit access, use git: instead of ssh: 00:22:19 * laubersm notes cleaning out subdirs from F12 test builds is also a good idea - thanks to git status 00:22:49 <jjmcd> The git clone will make a release-notes directory 00:23:06 <laubersm> er... it was f11 test builds... I *knew* I wouldn't be starting on the correct branch :) 00:23:34 <jjmcd> and everything is in there, so if you do this from ~/Documents/Release-Notes, then the release notes will be in ~/Documents/Release-Notes/release-notes 00:23:45 <stickster> jjmcd: There's a bunch of stuff in build/ that may not belong anymore if I'm correct 00:24:19 <stickster> not sure now. 00:24:29 <jjmcd> Some is still useful, some not 00:24:43 <jjmcd> We can get rid of the whole merging thing 00:24:54 * laubersm notes for those with an old version checked out - git status ; git branch -r ; git checkout master 00:26:24 * jsmith checks out the latest version 00:26:27 <jsmith> (slowly) 00:26:37 <jjmcd> How bad is this python thing going to break my system? 00:27:50 <jjmcd> The xml files will be in release-notes/en-US 00:28:12 <jjmcd> There is pretty much one file per beat, and they are named with pretty obvious names 00:28:48 <jjmcd> Things like MailServer.xml 00:30:19 <jjmcd> Taking the git business first, you edit the file, build the documents, check for errors, when you are satisfied... 00:30:33 <jjmcd> git status should show you only one file needs to be committed 00:30:48 <jjmcd> If that is the case, git add -u will add it to the commit list 00:30:52 <stickster> Looks like mw-render is working 00:31:31 <jjmcd> Keeps telling me I shouldn't trust this guy, but it is taking it's sweet time to install 00:31:32 <stickster> #info command line for mw-render: mw-render -c http://fedoraproject.org/w/ -o <outputfile> -w docbook <Wiki_Article_Name> 00:31:48 <jjmcd> You can add several files if you wish 00:32:08 <jjmcd> But you would like to commit a related group that you can describe as one thing. 00:32:22 <laubersm> content is coming from the wiki 00:32:25 <laubersm> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats 00:32:33 <jjmcd> So, to do the commit, git commit -m "I fixed this and that" 00:32:36 <stickster> rudi: ^^^ above re: mw-render which may help get beats into XML faster 00:32:44 <jjmcd> Yes, I was going to fo there after git 00:32:49 <stickster> You have to massage the XML afterward but it's easier than doing individual copy/pastes 00:33:47 <rudi> Ta stickster 00:34:18 <jjmcd> still installing. It complained a lot about not trusting that guy! 00:38:11 <quaid> +1 on meetbot logging + #command usage = email with details to list so others are in the know 00:38:27 <jjmcd> Yuck 00:38:41 <jjmcd> Every {{package gets an inlinemediaobject 00:39:16 <jjmcd> stickster, I'm not so sure that is easier 00:39:38 <stickster> jjmcd: Those oughtta be removed 00:39:50 <stickster> We used to make it clear that release notes beats didn't get written like any other page 00:39:54 <stickster> i.e. less markup 00:40:00 <jjmcd> Yeah, they really mung up the works 00:40:16 <stickster> jjmcd: I'd suggest edit the wiki first, remove extraneous markup, save, then import. 00:41:18 <stickster> jjmcd: If it were possible, we could add a template to every page that would include that guidance -- the problem would be, I think that when you ran mw-render, that would appear in the output. 00:44:09 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Converting_wiki_to_DocBook_XML#Converting_fr… 00:44:18 <quaid> in particular 00:44:20 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Converting_wiki_to_DocBook_XML#Converting_to… 00:44:25 <quaid> I just updated them for mw-render 00:44:35 <quaid> with steps for a quick for-loop to render a pile of pages, etc. 00:45:00 * quaid cleans up more cruft from that page 00:45:40 <stickster> jjmcd: Want help cleaning up those wiki pages for markup? I can start at the bottom of the release notes list and work my way up. 00:45:51 * stickster looking at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats for the list 00:46:04 <jjmcd> I'm just trying to get a simple one to work 00:46:26 <stickster> jjmcd: What are you trying? 00:46:33 <jjmcd> mail 00:46:46 <stickster> Paste your command line 00:47:18 <jjmcd> It converts, but the result won't build 00:47:30 <stickster> jjmcd: Paste the XML to fpaste.org 00:47:33 <jjmcd> and the new publican is even worse than the old with error messages 00:47:59 <stickster> jjmcd: or... 00:48:02 <stickster> We can use gobby. 00:48:08 <stickster> We have all these cool collaboration tools, let's use them. 00:48:14 <jjmcd> K8gu 00:48:31 <jjmcd> This is a different box than my publican 1.0 box 00:48:34 * stickster recommends real links 00:48:46 <jjmcd> so cutting and pasting is messy 00:48:49 <stickster> #link http://fpaste.org/K8gu/ 00:48:55 <jjmcd> This box is way slow 00:49:30 <jjmcd> The xml looks fine but publican doesn't care for it 00:49:31 <stickster> jjmcd: Do you need a faster one? 00:49:47 <jjmcd> Just flipping between boxes 00:49:58 <jjmcd> This box is slow but has lots of screen, F11 00:50:00 <jsmith> I can give you a machine in the cloud, if you need one 00:50:13 <jjmcd> I pretty much do IRC and gwibber on it 00:50:24 <jjmcd> I do most stuff on my laptop 00:50:45 <quaid> jjmcd: the resulting XML probably won't build in publican as-is 00:50:50 <jjmcd> but I have a fast box with Publican 0.44, waiting till now to move it to f12 00:50:52 <quaid> it might build with raw docbook on the CLI though 00:51:13 <jjmcd> Well, that is my issue, but I really don't see anything wrong 00:51:34 <quaid> <sectioninfo> is new 00:51:43 <jjmcd> and wrong? 00:51:54 <quaid> not likely 00:51:56 <stickster> quaid: jjmcd: The DTD is wrong at top, that might not help. 00:52:35 <jjmcd> Oh, it had all that beat crap, I just cut and pasted the middle 00:52:41 <jjmcd> AHHHH 00:52:49 <jjmcd> builds if you get rid of sectioninfo 00:52:49 <quaid> does the original page have all the content in == sections for each piece == ? 00:53:44 <quaid> jjmcd: what tool was breaking on it? 00:53:47 <stickster> jjmcd: What should I be doing with beats that have tables of package changes? ship those changes into some other "all changes" page? 00:54:02 <jjmcd> stickster - those still need editing 00:54:05 <quaid> I bet <sectioninfo> is not on Publican's allowed tags list 00:54:16 <jjmcd> those tables only provide a clue for the beat writer 00:54:18 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, likely not 00:54:38 <stickster> s/<\?/sectioninfo>//g 00:54:41 <jjmcd> OK, it probably only takes twice as long as cut/paste 00:55:53 <jjmcd> It also doesn't put the type= into the ulinks, but publican seems ok with that 00:56:27 <stickster> Wow, a blank kernel beat. That's not kool. 00:56:51 <quaid> we been using devel-announced? 00:57:03 <stickster> yup 00:57:15 <quaid> got a beat writer to ritually flog with a wet noodle? 00:57:18 <stickster> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2010-March/000589.h… 00:57:22 <stickster> quaid: nope. 00:57:27 <jjmcd> stickster, use the status page 00:57:30 <quaid> awp 00:57:53 * quaid makes UNIX caveman sounds, 'AWK AWK GREP SED GREP' 00:58:01 <jjmcd> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status 00:58:06 <quaid> thx 00:58:12 <stickster> No one listed for kernel. 00:59:13 <quaid> we could use to make some developer contacts in that list, people to reach out to individually when we see important holes 00:59:33 <stickster> "use to make"? :-D 00:59:45 <quaid> colloquialland 00:59:54 * stickster no longer lives there :-\ 01:00:00 <quaid> I think I'm in New Jersey tonight 01:00:23 <jjmcd> The package database has been helpful for me. The maintainers have been good with answers, not so good about providing content 01:00:45 <quaid> the maintainers need to help find the beat writer :) 01:00:51 <jjmcd> The all changes page has links to the package database, but it still takes a few clicks to get to the maintainers email 01:01:24 <quaid> there is someone in their extended circle ... if Dave Jones or Uli Drepper asked folks to write stuff for them, you think someone might o it. 01:02:33 <quaid> jjmcd: so, what I'm thinking is putting a named developer contact for each beat; it could be 'anaconda-devel' or 'Dave Jones' 01:02:42 <quaid> and then we email them :) 01:03:01 <jjmcd> There is a column for that, but it is mostly empty and not very helpful 01:03:11 <jjmcd> So far, the packagedb has been better 01:03:25 * laubersm notes we are off the topic of converting wiki to xml and documenting said process for new folks to be able to help out. 01:03:28 <jjmcd> Because it tells you someone currently working on it 01:03:38 <jjmcd> laubersm, yes 01:04:02 <jjmcd> OK, so you run mw-render 01:04:14 <jjmcd> Whoops, first un-tag the beat 01:04:19 <jjmcd> then run mw-render 01:04:36 <jjmcd> then cut and paste the "body" of the result into the xml 01:04:38 <laubersm> explain un-tag the beat please 01:04:53 <jjmcd> Remove {{package| macros 01:05:11 * laubersm assumes someone may also be new to wiki edits 01:05:22 <laubersm> thanks 01:05:31 <jjmcd> OK, back to the xml 01:05:40 <jjmcd> remove sectioninfo 01:05:54 <jjmcd> put back in <package> tags 01:06:01 <jjmcd> if all goes well 01:06:16 <jjmcd> publican --langs=en-US --formats=html should run 01:06:26 <jjmcd> look at result 01:06:32 <jjmcd> If you like it 01:06:37 <jjmcd> git add -u 01:06:46 <jjmcd> git commit -m "what I did" 01:06:50 <jjmcd> git push origin 01:07:05 <jjmcd> Pretty straightforward, actually 01:07:25 <jjmcd> So far, most of the beats are simple 01:07:43 <stickster> laubersm: Replacing {{package|foo}} with ''foo'' can help. Then it's easy to find the text "foo" because it will have <emphasis> tags around it you can just change to <package> 01:07:47 <jjmcd> It may get interesting if some of the beats have lists or tables or whatever 01:07:55 <jjmcd> Good catch 01:08:07 <laubersm> ok, lets walk through the Printing beat as an example 01:08:08 * stickster recalls that's why we avoided them previously 01:08:12 <stickster> So we could easily port to XML 01:08:31 <jjmcd> Yeah, even cutting and pasting is a little messy 01:08:36 * stickster edits the English. 01:08:55 <laubersm> No package tags so that should be real easy. I assume we can leave the admon since we aer just ignoring that part of the render 01:09:15 <jjmcd> OK, in this case, Emad78 left the link to the feature page 01:09:33 <jjmcd> We may want to remove it, or refer to it in the text 01:09:46 * stickster fixes the English 01:09:49 <jjmcd> We also want to get rid of the admonition 01:10:25 <jjmcd> Looks pretty good 01:10:34 <laubersm> I assume if we refernce the feature page we want it with the full external link? 01:10:40 <jjmcd> correct 01:10:47 <stickster> Yes 01:10:49 <jjmcd> Notice stickster caught that 01:11:07 <stickster> #info when editing, replace wiki links with full https:// links. 01:11:31 <jjmcd> #info also, remove admonition, and make sure there is an appropriate title 01:11:38 <laubersm> https or http? 01:11:50 <stickster> oh good call 01:11:56 <stickster> http will prevent overload on release day. 01:12:04 * stickster leaves that edit to laubersm 01:12:18 <stickster> #info when removing {{package|foo}}, it's helpful to replace it with ''foo'' (wiki italics) so it's easier to locate by the resulting <emphasis> tags in the XML 01:12:32 <jjmcd> #info prefer http rather than https for the printed release notes 01:14:25 <jjmcd> so the command is 01:15:11 <jjmcd> mw-render -c http://fedoraproject.org/w/ -o printtemp.xml -w docbook Documentation_Printing_Beat 01:15:24 <jjmcd> what did I miss? 01:16:53 <stickster> worksforme 01:17:29 * laubersm is back... ok - edits look good. trying the mw-render command now... 01:17:38 <stickster> jjmcd: You can do this 01:17:53 <stickster> mw-render -c http://fedoraproject.org/w/ -o printtemp.xml -w docbook -t Printing Documentation_Printing_Beat 01:18:01 <jjmcd> So, you copy all the text from the <section> before the first title, to the penultimate </section> 01:18:07 <stickster> sorry 01:18:15 <stickster> mw-render -c http://fedoraproject.org/w/ -o printtemp.xml -w docbook --title="Printing" Documentation_Printing_Beat 01:18:26 <jjmcd> and paste it into the middle of the en=US/Printing.xml 01:18:37 <stickster> Oh never mind, that sucks worse 01:18:43 <jjmcd> stickster, yes, I did MailServers and pushed it 01:18:53 <jjmcd> s/Beat/Beat" 01:19:32 <jjmcd> I think you can get away without the -t 01:19:47 <jjmcd> At least it worked for me 01:19:52 <stickster> Yeah, it adds a <booktitle> which is totally not wanted. 01:19:57 <stickster> Forget that option :-D 01:20:17 <jjmcd> Well, there is so much trash at the front anyway 01:20:56 <jjmcd> rudi has the xml all marked up with development stuff that will disappear when we get rid of status="draft" 01:21:17 <jjmcd> So we want to paste into rudi's files rather than replace them 01:21:24 <rudi> Yeah :) 01:22:10 <stickster> Yup yup 01:22:49 <jjmcd> laubersm, you may need to do a pull ... I pushed mailservers after you cloned 01:24:03 <laubersm> jjmcd, I got that.... 01:25:08 <laubersm> I'm multitasking and I really should just concentrate on this for a few minutes... lets see if I can build 01:25:15 <jjmcd> that darned peer anyway 01:26:49 <laubersm> for the record - the publican command you listed before is incomplete... 01:26:54 <jjmcd> ? 01:27:00 <jjmcd> worksforme 01:27:01 <laubersm> publican build --lang=en-US --format=html 01:27:06 <laubersm> forgot the word buid 01:27:10 <jjmcd> langs, formats 01:27:11 <laubersm> build :) 01:27:15 <jjmcd> ahhhhh 01:27:37 <laubersm> ok = one more time complete" 01:27:51 <jjmcd> #info publican build --langs=en-US --formats=html 01:27:54 <laubersm> publican build --langs=en-US --formats=html 01:28:12 * laubersm goes to fix markup error from attempt 01:29:04 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Quaid/Documentation_Beat_status 01:29:20 <quaid> just looking to see if it was any more illuminating than https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats 01:29:47 <jjmcd> did you see Documentation_Beat_status? 01:30:02 <quaid> jjmcd: yeah, my table is drawn right from that 01:30:06 <jjmcd> Has pointers for newbies 01:30:12 <rudi_> Protip -- save a little typing: "publican build -l en-US -f html" 01:30:25 <quaid> I was trying to illuminate where people are needed specifically 01:30:30 <quaid> people or help 01:30:32 <jjmcd> Oh cool, both table and shorthand 01:30:47 * jjmcd was too lazy to format a table ;-) 01:31:08 <laubersm> #info when cut/paste - be sure that lines still wrap and do not have newlines inserted 01:31:17 <laubersm> arg 01:31:27 <jjmcd> must not be using emacs 01:32:46 <laubersm> nope - and I think I was demo-ing some vi set commands in class a couple of weeks ago and ended up on my machine instead of the demo box... 01:33:19 <jjmcd> First thing I do on a new install is delete vi 01:33:35 <jjmcd> and next symlink it to emacs 01:34:05 <laubersm> I'm sorry 01:34:11 <laubersm> pushed printing update 01:34:52 <jjmcd> OK, now go to the beat status page and mark it in xml 01:35:02 <jjmcd> and to the beats page and put a 1 in the xml column 01:35:20 <jjmcd> quaid, did you replace d_b_s with your table? 01:36:42 <jjmcd> laubersm, and it builds 01:36:53 <laubersm> jjmcd, of course 01:37:02 <laubersm> I even looked at the html page 01:37:14 <jjmcd> looks good 01:37:49 <jjmcd> admission: jjmcd is making html-single because it is easier when the doc is still small 01:38:06 <jjmcd> Not so good when it takes 10 minutes to load tho 01:38:37 <laubersm> ok - I got the 1 under xml column in beats page... 01:38:46 <jjmcd> rudi_, it is so much nicer to do ls en-US and not have to look at a hundred table- files 01:39:13 <rudi_> *nods :) 01:39:41 <jjmcd> laubersm, and the "in xml" on the status page? 01:39:43 <laubersm> and I got the status page 01:39:47 <jjmcd> ok, cool 01:40:24 <laubersm> that dual place to update in wiki is going away soon ??? (I hope) 01:40:31 <jjmcd> yes 01:40:46 <jjmcd> the dual thing is really only a way to get the new contributors started 01:41:00 <jjmcd> we have quite a few new and relatively new folks 01:41:21 <jjmcd> And I don't want then discouraged because of no way to contribute 01:42:11 <laubersm> ok... You guys should be done with all this moving to xml before I get up in the morning... but if not I can probably put in an hour or so tomorrow afternoon 01:42:20 <jjmcd> This way they can dive into anything that says opportunity,and if they are feeling their vinegar, possible opportunity 01:42:55 <jjmcd> OK, I can probably only do a couple more before bed, but there aren't that many ready 01:43:10 <jjmcd> Quite a few still need content 01:43:19 <laubersm> If they add content, I can help get it converted to docbook... or help them if they can push 01:43:49 <jjmcd> good deal 01:44:04 <jjmcd> Should we go ahead and do endmeeting, or wait a week or so? 01:44:11 <laubersm> lol 01:44:55 <stickster> heh 01:44:55 <laubersm> one more question... when does all this get into git by? And when is the next window of conversion? 01:45:06 <stickster> laubersm: yesterday :-D 01:45:22 <laubersm> oh yeah... nevermind 01:45:28 <jjmcd> We want to make POTs tomorrow night. We will make an RPM Wednesday. 01:45:34 <stickster> jjmcd: laubersm: I'd suggest that everyone involved have watches on all the beats 01:45:43 <stickster> So if someone changes the content we can do what we need to get the changes into POT 01:45:53 <jjmcd> I obviously do 01:46:11 <stickster> #info We shouldn't just copy new content over the old, because we might accidentally bring in trivial changes that aggravate translators 01:47:18 <quaid> jjmcd: nope, I didn't replace it with my table 01:47:55 * stickster looking for a beat, somebody hit me 01:47:55 <jjmcd> 'lo sizemj, you just missed our howto 01:48:07 <jjmcd> Sci/Tech, or you want an easy one? 01:48:29 <sizemj> I know was late 01:48:59 <jjmcd> I'll be posting the log in a couple of minutes. 01:49:05 <jjmcd> #endmeeting

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Conversion Howto - Summary
by John J. McDonough 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

==================================== #fedora-docs: Converting wiki to git ==================================== Meeting started by jjmcd at 00:20:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-docs/2010-03-18/fedora-docs.2010-03… . Meeting summary --------------- * command line for mw-render: mw-render -c http://fedoraproject.org/w/ -o <outputfile> -w docbook <Wiki_Article_Name> (stickster, 00:31:32) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats (laubersm, 00:32:25) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Converting_wiki_to_DocBook_XML#Converting_fr… (quaid, 00:44:09) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Converting_wiki_to_DocBook_XML#Converting_to… (quaid, 00:44:20) * LINK: http://fpaste.org/K8gu/ (stickster, 00:48:49) * LINK: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2010-March/000589.h… (stickster, 00:57:18) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status (jjmcd, 00:58:01) * when editing, replace wiki links with full https:// links. (stickster, 01:11:07) * also, remove admonition, and make sure there is an appropriate title (jjmcd, 01:11:31) * when removing {{package|foo}}, it's helpful to replace it with ''foo'' (wiki italics) so it's easier to locate by the resulting <emphasis> tags in the XML (stickster, 01:12:18) * prefer http rather than https for the printed release notes (jjmcd, 01:12:32) * publican build --langs=en-US --formats=html (jjmcd, 01:27:51) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Quaid/Documentation_Beat_status (quaid, 01:29:04) * when cut/paste - be sure that lines still wrap and do not have newlines inserted (laubersm, 01:31:08) * We shouldn't just copy new content over the old, because we might accidentally bring in trivial changes that aggravate translators (stickster, 01:46:11) Meeting ended at 01:49:05 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jjmcd (140) * stickster (59) * laubersm (41) * quaid (32) * zodbot (3) * jsmith (3) * rudi (2) * rudi_ (2) * sizemj (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Docs meeting 2010-03-17 - Log
by John J. McDonough 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

23:00:05 <jjmcd> #startmeeting Docs Project Weekly Meeting 23:00:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 17 23:00:05 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:00:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 23:00:23 <Emad78> hi jjmcd 23:00:32 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 23:00:42 <jjmcd> #topic roll call 23:00:43 <laubersm> .fas laubersm 23:00:44 <zodbot> laubersm: laubersm 'Susan Lauber' <susan(a)ties.org> 23:00:45 * jjmcd 23:00:53 <Emad78> me 23:00:57 * ianweller 23:00:59 * stickster 23:01:08 * rudi is here 23:01:16 * Emad78 is here 23:01:54 <jjmcd> #topic Follow up on last week's action items 23:02:05 <jjmcd> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-11/docs.2010-03-11-… 23:02:47 <jjmcd> stickster - wiki? 23:02:48 * stickster reports all his action items are finished. 23:03:06 * jjmcd also, and ke4qqq isn't here 23:03:19 <jjmcd> And hi Ben 23:03:21 <stickster> jjmcd: I took care of ke4qqq's for him too :-) 23:03:29 <bcotton> hi jjmcd 23:03:32 <jjmcd> Uitstekend - so all done 23:03:52 <jjmcd> OK this next one should be quick 23:03:56 <jjmcd> #topic Desktop Help Summit 23:04:03 <jjmcd> Any last minute topics for jjmcd to carry to the DHS? 23:04:20 <jjmcd> shaunm, I will identify a conf room and post instructions on the wiki 23:04:38 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd will identify a conf room and post instructions on the Gnome wiki 23:04:57 <jjmcd> anything else on the desktop help summit 23:05:23 <jjmcd> OK, now the big one 23:05:36 <jjmcd> #topic Release Notes 23:05:47 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status 23:06:04 * stickster posted a schedule to the list today 23:06:11 * nathant slips in late at the back 23:06:22 <jjmcd> I have identified the beat status and especially beats where new contributors could get involved 23:06:49 <jjmcd> If there is a beat with "opportunity" in bold, it should be relatively easy for a new contributor 23:07:08 <Emad78> I will try to put something in there if I can. 23:07:28 <stickster> We need to start getting content ported pronto. What is our approach going to be for beats where no one is contributing? 23:07:35 <jjmcd> If a beat has possible opportunity, it will take a little more work 23:07:45 <jjmcd> stickster, I've been going after those 23:08:05 <jjmcd> I figure those are probably the topughest 23:08:28 <jjmcd> My strategy is to look at the change table, try to pick heavy hitters, and chase down the upstream release notes 23:08:28 * stickster waits for details 23:08:48 <jjmcd> I can only guess at what is important 23:09:02 <stickster> What is the change table you're referring to? Is that the list of all packages that have changed? 23:09:05 <jjmcd> But in some cases, e.g. Entertainment, I really haven't a clue 23:09:12 <jjmcd> stickster, yes 23:09:23 <jjmcd> there is a link at the bottom of Documentation_Beats 23:09:48 <stickster> I would recommend that in the absence of any other beat content, we stick with what's on the feature list. 23:10:08 <stickster> Those pages should have release notes content or at least a pointer to where we can gather it. 23:10:15 <jjmcd> WHerever there is something on the feature list, the beat is bolded 23:10:29 <jjmcd> new contributors can work off the feature list without a lot of exploration 23:10:38 <stickster> quaid: rudi: Input appreciated too 23:10:42 <jjmcd> ANd the beat page has a link to the feature list 23:11:04 <jjmcd> laubersm, will you be around over the weekend? 23:11:22 <laubersm> I'll be in and out. I hope to pay attention to the desktop summit irc room 23:11:51 <jjmcd> I'll be off to the summit, but it would be nice if someone could marshall the troups for xml conversion 23:12:09 <jjmcd> I did a couple of easy beats this morning so new contributors have an example 23:12:12 <laubersm> That is this weekend? 23:12:20 <jjmcd> yes 23:12:30 <stickster> jjmcd: Let's start marshalling the troops *now* 23:12:38 <jjmcd> Next couple days I want to focus on getting content into the hard beats 23:12:52 <laubersm> Are we still having a howto after the meeting tonight? 23:13:12 <jjmcd> WOW, I totally forgot about that. Sounds good to me 23:13:47 <jjmcd> Many, many thanks to rudi for doing the branch and building the empty document BTW, Saved me tons of time 23:14:02 <rudi> NP 23:14:02 <laubersm> I'm already multitasking a bunch of things this weekend - including a 4-5 hour drive on Sunday where I will not be online 23:14:15 <jjmcd> #info rudi is awesome 23:14:49 <jjmcd> I obviously won't be a lot of use from Friday PM until Mon PM except maybe a little monday AM 23:14:52 <laubersm> I can probably help some Friday night and Sat morning 23:14:58 <jjmcd> Great 23:15:06 <jjmcd> Perhaps we can get some folks launched 23:15:07 <stickster> jjmcd: I think that's why I would rather we work on getting beats put into Publican now 23:15:25 <stickster> And make adding content the second priority. 23:15:42 <stickster> If the POT doesn't exist at all translators have nothing to work on. 23:15:48 <rudi> I'll take the installer today -- there are substantial changes in F13 23:15:48 <stickster> We're already late for them 23:15:53 <jjmcd> Good point, 23:16:13 <jjmcd> rudi, outstanding. I think mether started on that 23:16:19 <rudi> Oh OK 23:16:21 <jjmcd> and there are plenty of feature pages 23:16:51 <jjmcd> rudi got all the more or less boilerplate in there, and there are a few beats done 23:17:16 <jjmcd> OK, well, after the meeting we can get some work done during the howto 23:17:23 <jjmcd> is everyone up for that? 23:17:35 <Emad78> I should be able to do some. 23:17:52 <bcotton> jjmcd: will the howto be sent around? i won't be able to stick around after the meeting, but i'd like to see what i still don't know 23:17:53 <laubersm> I can stick around for a little while 23:18:25 <nathant> i won't be able stick around after the meeting 23:18:34 <nathant> happy to do catch-up reading though! 23:18:39 <jjmcd> Well, I assumed we would do it on #fedora-meeting. If you leave your IRC client on it can keep a log. Heck, I guess we could start meetbot 23:19:03 <jjmcd> #action we will use meetbot for tonight's howto and post the log on the list 23:19:16 <nathant> great 23:19:17 <jjmcd> Is that a reasonable approach? 23:19:21 <stickster> yep yep 23:19:33 * bcotton approves 23:20:14 <jjmcd> For any of the new folks, don't be shy about picking up any of the beats 23:20:59 <jjmcd> OK, before we talk about the change tables, anything else release notes related? 23:21:25 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Fedora_13_tables 23:21:30 <jjmcd> Has everyone seen this? 23:21:41 * Emad78 has 23:22:24 * laubersm likes the idea 23:22:27 <jjmcd> Anyone with plusses/minuses about a separate document? 23:22:42 <bcotton> i think it's a good idea 23:22:50 <Emad78> I totally agree with it also. 23:22:57 <rudi> jjmcd -- as I said on the list -- go for it! 23:22:59 <jjmcd> I'm liking it too, obviously, only problem is we need a new repo, new package, etc. etc. etc. 23:23:15 <jjmcd> But I need to learn to deal with that anyway 23:23:25 <rudi> jjmcd -- yeah, don't sweat that stuff 23:23:41 <jjmcd> THere's awesome infra guys that make stuff happen 23:23:55 * stickster left a comment on title 23:24:23 <jjmcd> OK, so it sounds like we go sith it 23:24:36 <stickster> np here 23:24:43 <stickster> Split == good. 23:24:52 <jjmcd> ianweller - some pages in the wiki have a fedora version macro that says 12, how do we say 13? 23:25:13 <ianweller> we edit [[Template:FedoraVersion]] 23:25:23 <ianweller> er 23:25:27 <ianweller> sorry, mkisread 23:25:28 <ianweller> misread* 23:25:35 <ianweller> {{FedoraVersion|next}}, i believe 23:25:40 <stickster> yup 23:25:43 <ianweller> stickster knows more, he wrote the template ^_^ 23:25:47 <jjmcd> Ahhhh, cool 23:25:55 * rudi has just left a different note on the title :) 23:25:59 <jjmcd> OK 23:26:14 <rudi> So are folks here happy if we start removing the tables from the XML of the RN? 23:26:26 <jjmcd> I'd be tickled to death 23:26:30 * stickster has just left a different different note :-) 23:26:54 * jjmcd is glad his server only fetches the mail every 5 minutes 23:27:02 <rudi> lolz 23:27:20 <rudi> jjmcd -- comments are on the Talk page on the wiki, not on the list :S 23:27:28 <jjmcd> So, besides the howto coming up, anything else on release notes? 23:27:33 <jjmcd> Oh good 23:28:20 <jjmcd> #topic Guide Status 23:28:42 <jjmcd> Has everyone updates the schedule 23:28:43 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule 23:29:36 <stickster> jjmcd: What is the follow-through plan for the guides with no names beside them? 23:29:40 * jjmcd needs to start IRCing from a faster box 23:29:58 <jjmcd> Most have an owner, Sparks has a list 23:30:08 <jjmcd> but some owners may need relief 23:30:09 <stickster> jjmcd: Is it on the wiki perchance? 23:30:25 <jjmcd> Some are on the meeting page 23:31:08 * jjmcd would offer to email the missing owners, but with heads-down until the rpm wednesday, I'm sure to forget 23:31:24 <rudi> list is here -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table 23:31:42 <rudi> (needs a little updating) 23:31:48 <jjmcd> Yes, I think that is included on the meeting page 23:31:54 <rudi> Ah sorry :) 23:31:59 <rudi> So it is :) 23:32:30 <rudi> stickster -- I'm standing by to take care of anything not owned 23:32:43 <jjmcd> How about we defer this until next week when the beta rpm is out the door, and who knows, maybe we will have our fearless leader back 23:32:50 <stickster> true true 23:32:55 * stickster defers, first things first 23:32:57 <stickster> rudi: Thanks 23:33:14 <jjmcd> #action Handle missing guide owners at March 24 meeting 23:33:16 * stickster would rather see more shared load there, for sure 23:33:29 <stickster> jjmcd: That's a good time to do it, since SRPM package review is a week afterward 23:33:54 <jjmcd> And after some of the newer contributors have had a chance to play in the release notes they may be up for taking one of those guides under their wing 23:34:42 <jjmcd> Do any of the guide owners here present need any help? Any issues? 23:35:50 <jjmcd> Anything else on guides? 23:36:07 <stickster> *chirp chirp* :-D 23:36:19 <jjmcd> OK then 23:36:22 <jjmcd> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 23:36:27 <laubersm> I'm still waiting on danielsm to send me updates for user guide 23:36:47 <laubersm> that likely won't make it in until F14 anyways but still 23:37:00 <laubersm> last I heard they were on a system at "home" where he would be this week 23:37:13 <jjmcd> Ahhh yes, I recall those comments 23:37:22 <jjmcd> Wasn't he in RDU this week 23:37:36 <jjmcd> OK 23:37:37 <rudi> laubersm -- do you think you'll have the bandwidth to incorporate Murray's notes from the list? 23:37:40 <jjmcd> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… 23:38:30 <laubersm> rudi, very likely. I just checked and I do have that email starred but I have not looked at it yet 23:38:53 * laubersm thinks she should look at the due dates before committing such things... 23:38:58 <rudi> ;) 23:39:23 * jjmcd still wants to know how to incorporate precognition into .procmailrc 23:39:43 <Emad78> I can do Murray's email. I've looked at it and gone through it all. 23:40:03 <laubersm> Emad78, COol! go for it. 23:40:18 <Emad78> I have it all marked up with all his notes. :) 23:40:32 <jjmcd> Oh way cool 23:40:36 <Emad78> laubersm: I need a bug report right? 23:40:47 <laubersm> Emad78, you have commit access already? Or should we get that taken care of tonight? 23:40:54 <laubersm> Emad78, no bug necessary 23:41:11 <Emad78> I have access to the User-Guide already for commits. 23:41:13 <laubersm> unless you do not have commit rights and do not want commit rights 23:41:28 <jjmcd> Emad78, the bug is really a communication feature, not a permission thing 23:41:31 <laubersm> Emad78, great - then just fix it :) 23:41:38 <Emad78> Ok, I'm on it. 23:41:46 <jjmcd> Outstanding 23:41:49 <laubersm> Emad78, what jjmcd said - and a tracking option 23:41:50 <stickster> woohoo! 23:42:31 <jjmcd> So, does anyone need any help with bugs? Any particular issues? 23:43:13 <jjmcd> #info Emad78 showing evidence of awseomeness 23:43:30 * Emad78 is just trying to help out. 23:43:38 <jjmcd> :-)) 23:43:50 <jjmcd> anything else on guides/bugs? 23:44:02 <laubersm> rudi, is user guide branched and ready for master to have F13 updates? 23:44:13 * laubersm is too lazy to look at the moment 23:44:27 <rudi> laubersm -- changes go into "master" 23:44:29 * laubersm figures if anyone has done it recently, it was rudi 23:44:38 <rudi> We only branch when we're ready to drop to translation 23:44:54 <rudi> (which then freezes the content in the F13 branch) 23:44:56 <laubersm> got it 23:45:01 <laubersm> thanks 23:45:06 <rudi> The RN is a bit different ;) 23:45:13 <laubersm> Emad78, are you playing with the F13 alpha yet? 23:45:25 <Emad78> laubersm: No I haven't 23:45:37 * laubersm notes that she has mostly worked on release notes so that would explain the confusion 23:45:58 * jjmcd still needs to make an alpha stick 23:46:04 <stickster> rudi: Re: branching and translation 23:46:05 <laubersm> Emad78, because it is also past time to be looking for things to update for F13 in there as well. 23:46:41 <stickster> rudi: Are we going to have the opportunity to do another update before the final translation period, as noted in the email I sent to the Docs list earlier? Was that schedule sane? 23:46:41 <Emad78> laubersm: Ok I can get it and try to get something out of it. 23:47:08 <laubersm> Leave any details like screen shots and menu names for a while - they may still change again - but anything major like "default app" 23:47:30 <rudi> stickster -- with the RN, we were able to do so in the past, and your advice re string changes was succinct and on the money :) 23:47:32 <laubersm> or this no longer exists now type things can be done now 23:47:36 <Emad78> laubersm: Got it. I'll see what I can find. 23:47:41 <jjmcd> There were some default changes I think 23:47:59 <rudi> For the guides, once they're branched, we need to ask for exceptions from L10N to make changes in (say) the F13 branch 23:48:41 <stickster> rudi: Okeydoke -- thanks for the head check :-) 23:48:51 <laubersm> Emad78, like empathy as the new gnome IM default instead of pidgen - unless you do preupgrade like I did and it leaves pidgen... 23:48:55 <rudi> The real risk (which we've encountered in the past) is that once we change something in a branch, the big, well-staffed teams can accommodate it, but it places a much larger burden on the smaller (one-person!) teams 23:49:26 <stickster> laubersm: Emad78: Yeah, really the good thing to do is install F13 Alpha + updates to a VM and write based on what you see there 23:49:27 <Emad78> laubersm: Ok I see, well I'll get the Alpha and check it out. 23:49:36 <stickster> agreed 23:49:48 <stickster> rudi: Right. 23:50:17 <stickster> rudi: One thing we have on our side is an updates flow for the pending release 23:50:27 <Emad78> stickster: Is this always the DVD or just the Live CD??? 23:50:36 <rudi> Yep; as long as we're *adding* stuff we're OK 23:50:49 <rudi> (for the RN!) 23:50:58 <stickster> rudi: *nod 23:51:09 <stickster> We should be careful not to tinker with changes too much in the existing strings 23:51:43 <rudi> Yeah; that's something for new folks here to keep in mind 23:51:55 <jjmcd> For the new folks, making unnecessary changes adds to the translation work 23:52:14 <rudi> So, for example, if something's not actually *wrong* in an existing guide, avoid changing it 23:52:22 <jjmcd> Obviously you want to fix something that is just plain wrong, but minor cosmetic changes, no 23:52:39 * Emad78 copies that. 23:53:14 <stickster> quaid: Do we currently have a working python-mwlib? I know about the dep problem, fixing it with a new update. 23:53:26 <stickster> quaid: Can we effectively pull down a page though? 23:54:38 <stickster> #info If something's not actually *wrong* in an existing piece of text, don't change it after we send to translators. 23:54:50 * stickster reminds that we should be using meetbot to keep notes for us ;-) 23:55:12 <jjmcd> OK, move on? 23:55:14 <stickster> IRC is tough enough already because it only catches people who are here -- we need the records on the list for people not here 23:55:24 <jjmcd> #topic All other business 23:55:34 <jjmcd> Hey David --- evenin' 23:55:40 <stickster> jjmcd: Are we copacetic with trading off meeting chairing? 23:55:44 <ke4qqq> hi jjmcd 23:56:01 <jjmcd> Sounds good to me 23:56:06 <stickster> k 23:56:09 <stickster> #agreed stickster will chair next meeting on 2010-03-24 23:56:14 <jjmcd> I'll be fried next week anyway, after the rpm! 23:56:22 <jjmcd> Anything else to come before this august assembly? 23:56:36 * stickster has nothing further but can help for a couple hours tonight with porting assuming our tool works 23:56:59 <stickster> jjmcd: Are you going to let the translators know when we'll have POT to them? 23:57:05 <stickster> Do we have an ETA for that? 23:57:27 <jjmcd> Don't have an ETA yet, but I am thinking we could be a long way along in 24 hours 23:57:44 <stickster> jjmcd: Let's commit to something 23:58:07 <stickster> Can we try for 11:00pm Eastern tomorrow night? That would be... er 23:58:16 <stickster> 2010-03-19 UTC 0300 23:58:33 <jjmcd> Sounds about right 23:58:37 <stickster> i.e. set a goal, then achieve it 23:58:39 <stickster> k 23:58:46 * stickster hopes zodbot is listening to him 23:59:02 <jjmcd> #action Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning 23:59:10 <rudi> worksforme 23:59:15 <stickster> jjmcd: need a person for that #action I think 23:59:18 <stickster> #undo 23:59:24 <jjmcd> rudi - you will deal with the mechanics? 23:59:24 <stickster> yeah, zoddie's ignoring me :-) 23:59:36 * jjmcd is suspicious of undo 23:59:40 <jjmcd> #undo 23:59:40 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2843bad0> 23:59:56 <rudi> jjmcd -- yep, I'll do the plumbing 00:00:07 <jjmcd> #action Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing 00:00:36 <jjmcd> OK, we are out of clock. Anything else? 00:00:57 <jjmcd> Then we go to #fedora-docs for howto 00:01:10 <jjmcd> 10 00:01:16 <jjmcd> 5 00:01:21 <jjmcd> 4 00:01:35 <jjmcd> 3 seconds are too fast, these are lazy seconds 00:01:38 <jjmcd> 2 00:01:46 <jjmcd> 1 00:01:55 <jjmcd> THanks everyone 00:01:59 <jjmcd> #endmeeting

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Docs meeting 2010-03-17 - Summary
by John J. McDonough 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Weekly Meeting ============================================ Meeting started by jjmcd at 23:00:05 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-17/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings (jjmcd, 23:00:32) * roll call (jjmcd, 23:00:42) * Follow up on last week's action items (jjmcd, 23:01:54) * LINK: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-11/docs.2010-03-11-… (jjmcd, 23:02:05) * Desktop Help Summit (jjmcd, 23:03:56) * ACTION: jjmcd will identify a conf room and post instructions on the Gnome wiki (jjmcd, 23:04:38) * Release Notes (jjmcd, 23:05:36) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status (jjmcd, 23:05:47) * rudi is awesome (jjmcd, 23:14:15) * ACTION: we will use meetbot for tonight's howto and post the log on the list (jjmcd, 23:19:03) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Fedora_13_tables (jjmcd, 23:21:25) * Guide Status (jjmcd, 23:28:20) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule (jjmcd, 23:28:43) * ACTION: Handle missing guide owners at March 24 meeting (jjmcd, 23:33:14) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (jjmcd, 23:36:22) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… (jjmcd, 23:37:40) * Emad78 showing evidence of awseomeness (jjmcd, 23:43:13) * If something's not actually *wrong* in an existing piece of text, don't change it after we send to translators. (stickster, 23:54:38) * All other business (jjmcd, 23:55:24) * ACTION: Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing (jjmcd, 00:00:07) Meeting ended at 00:01:59 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jjmcd will identify a conf room and post instructions on the Gnome wiki * we will use meetbot for tonight's howto and post the log on the list * Handle missing guide owners at March 24 meeting * Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd will identify a conf room and post instructions on the Gnome wiki * Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing * rudi * Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing * **UNASSIGNED** * we will use meetbot for tonight's howto and post the log on the list * Handle missing guide owners at March 24 meeting People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jjmcd (123) * stickster (59) * laubersm (30) * rudi (30) * Emad78 (19) * ianweller (7) * bcotton (4) * zodbot (4) * nathant (4) * ke4qqq (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Fwd: Live ISOs that don't fit on CDs
by Ruediger Landmann 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

We're going to need to keep an eye on this issue -- if the F13 live image will no longer fit on a CD, we need to note it in the RN, plus other docs too (readme-live-image, readme-burning-isos, installation-quick-start-guide, at least) Just a heads up... Rudi -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Live ISOs that don't fit on CDs Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 03:33:10 -0500 From: Christopher Beland <beland(a)alum.mit.edu> Reply-To: For testers of Fedora development releases <test(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> To: test(a)lists.fedoraproject.org So in the process of triaging Bug 557958, I have found a user with an interest in lobbying against the decision to allow Live ISOs that are too large to burn to CD. (They can't boot off USB or DVD, and I think is experiencing a bug with their network install.) I'm not questioning the decision, but as more people discover that things are too big to burn onto CD, it would be helpful to have someplace to point them. After poking around a bit in mailing list archives, I couldn't find any official announcement, nor did I find the reference which I think which was on this mailing list where I first learned about this myself. Does anyone know which group made this decision, and if there's an official reasoning? (Or for that matter if there's still a chance that it might be reversed.) It might be helpful to update: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD with some explanation, for example: * The vast majority of users can boot off USB, if not DVD, and so are not affected by the change. The larger size better serves the majority by providing the software that most people need in a Live distribution. * Non-Live installation methods are still available on CD, including network install from a minimal image, or offline install from multiple CDs. * Users that can only boot off CD but still need a Live distribution can use Revisor and published kickstart files to slim down the official spins to include only the software they actually need. -B. -- test mailing list test(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test

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Attention New Contributors
by John J. McDonough 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

Over the next couple of days we will be adding a lot of content to the wiki. There is an opportunity here to do things. I have put together a page that shows the opportunities: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status On any beat where there is a bold word opportunity, this is a chance to do some reasonably easy things. If you see a beat with this marker that interests you: - Edit the status page and place your ~~~ after the word opportunity so someone else doesn't start working on the same thing - Go to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats and click on the link for the beat page - The page will have links to the related feature pages. Review those pages and generate some release notes prose on the beat page Some of the beats say "possible opportunity". These are for those who are up for a little more detective work. These beats show old and new versions of important applications with a link to the upstream web site. The trick here is to find the upstream release notes, which can often be a challenge. Review the notes and decide whether the change is significant. You want to take special note of cases where upgrading requires some action on the part of the user. Then write some release notes prose on the beat page describing the significant changes. We don't need to fixate on every bugfix, but we do want to identify major changes. And sometimes there just isn't much information available. All of this will get reviewed at least once, so don't get hung up on having exactly perfect prose. Nicer is obviously better, but there will be multiple review cycles so no point getting overwrought. Meanwhile, I'll go after the uglier ones first. I (and I'm sure others) will be idling on #fedora-docs if you need help, or email to this list. The list is better because if you have a question, someone else probably does too. But IRC is quicker. Thanks --McD

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Translate Beta Release Notes
by Noriko Mizumoto 17 Mar '10

17 Mar '10

Hi I have had the chat with Rudi regarding the subject, to get the info of it's progress. It seems that the wiki version is not yet complete thus there is nothing in XML, meaning POT&POs to be empty even they are made atm. Now this turned into the question which requires the attention from all of us. It is said from docs team that 'we never translate beta rel-note, and this item should not have been on the L10N schedule. This did not happen for F12 actually'. Besides this item can be found in the schedule of F9 through F13. Do we need this entry or not? If we need it why? If we don't need it why? It would be needed to clarify the usefulness of this entry. How you think? noriko

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Release Notes All Changes
by John J. McDonough 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

At tomorrow night's meeting, I would like to talk about the handling of the All Changes tables that were introduced on F12. I've put up a wiki page with some thoughts https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Fedora_13_tables It would be good to review that before the meeting and perhaps add some additional thoughts so we can go through it as quickly as possible. Thanks --McD

3 2

Translate Beta Release Notes
by Noriko Mizumoto 16 Mar '10

16 Mar '10

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docs March 2010