Hello all,
It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to be done?
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Hello all,
It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to be done?
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Hi Dan,
Thats my fault I was supposed to be working on it this whole week but my son's been sick since last Friday and he's only just gone to day care today. I found some issues with the [1] xfce desktop which I'll fix tonight. Other things that need to be added if I remember was screenshots for kde? [2]
Communications section [3] some information about getting compiz working though I see issues since the only opensource driver that works currently is the intel one.
Some wireless, vpn and NetworkManager info[4], Kmymoney [5] and Multimedia should have and ipod howto since we are allowed to ship it should also have the steps to get mp3's using the links provided within the distribution. (I need feedback on this)
I think if all those can be fixed today and I'll endeavor to work my way down the list if you want to work up the list we can have another look at it on the list to see what else people think needs to be added.
Regards,
Marc
1: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop 2: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/KdeDesktop 3: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications 4: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern... 5: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Hello all,
It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to be done?
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Hi Dan,
Thats my fault I was supposed to be working on it this whole week but my son's been sick since last Friday and he's only just gone to day care today. I found some issues with the [1] xfce desktop which I'll fix tonight. Other things that need to be added if I remember was screenshots for kde? [2]
Communications section [3] some information about getting compiz working though I see issues since the only opensource driver that works currently is the intel one.
Some wireless, vpn and NetworkManager info[4], Kmymoney [5] and Multimedia should have and ipod howto since we are allowed to ship it should also have the steps to get mp3's using the links provided within the distribution. (I need feedback on this)
I think if all those can be fixed today and I'll endeavor to work my way down the list if you want to work up the list we can have another look at it on the list to see what else people think needs to be added.
Regards,
Marc
1: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop 2: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/KdeDesktop 3: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications 4: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern...
5: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial
All, Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work?
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work?
This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version.
http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg...
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work?
This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version.
http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg...
Rahul
bah. ok, well hopefully everything will be back up and running today or tomorrow.
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 15:45 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work?
This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version.
http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg...
bah. ok, well hopefully everything will be back up and running today or tomorrow.
CVS/$SCM: +1, Wiki: 0. ;-)
<snip>
Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported.
I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information.
The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites.
Would love some feedback on that last issue.
Cheers,
Marc
On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
<snip>
Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported.
I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information.
The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites.
As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one.
There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered binaries
It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This repository exists because there are countries in the world where the laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is subject to US laws.
This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems.
Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's already documented at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG.
Would love some feedback on that last issue.
You just got it :-)
Best Regards,
John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project
On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote:
On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
<snip>
Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported.
I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information.
The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites.
As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one.
There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered binaries
It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This repository exists because there are countries in the world where the laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is subject to US laws.
This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems.
Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's already documented at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG.
Would love some feedback on that last issue.
You just got it :-)
Best Regards,
John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project
No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships.
Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or closed source software.
I'll quote from the description of the package.
This package contains the 'b43-fwcutter' tool which is used to extract firmware for the Broadcom network devices.
See the README.Fedora file shipped in the package's documentation for instructions on using this tool.
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote:
On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
<snip>
Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported.
I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information.
The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites.
As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one.
There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered binaries
It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This repository exists because there are countries in the world where the laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is subject to US laws.
This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems.
Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's already documented at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG.
Would love some feedback on that last issue.
You just got it :-)
Best Regards,
John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project
No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships.
Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or closed source software.
Firmware, not software and we do have a exception for shipping firmware as long as they are redistributable. As long as the software itself is Free and open source, there is no judging it by what it is going to be used for. Wine for example, falls under the same class.
Rahul
On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 19:09 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote:
On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
<snip>
Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported.
I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information.
The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites.
As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one.
There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered binaries
It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This repository exists because there are countries in the world where the laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is subject to US laws.
This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems.
Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's already documented at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG.
Would love some feedback on that last issue.
You just got it :-)
Best Regards,
John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project
No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships.
Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or closed source software.
Firmware, not software and we do have a exception for shipping firmware as long as they are redistributable. As long as the software itself is Free and open source, there is no judging it by what it is going to be used for. Wine for example, falls under the same class.
Rahul
Does that mean it can be documented or not? Either or doesn't bother me I would like to know since obviously it's a waste of effort if it can't be used.
Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Does that mean it can be documented or not? Either or doesn't bother me I would like to know since obviously it's a waste of effort if it can't be used.
Note that the firmware itself *might* be redistributable and is waiting on legal review at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383271. I think, you should leave out documenting it for now. If we can actually ship the firmware, the documentation would be redundant since it would just work out of the box.
Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink?
You could but Fedora docs project wouldn't publish it.
Rahul
<snip>
Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink?
You could but Fedora docs project wouldn't publish it.
Rahul
Thats what I mean no point in me documenting it if it isn't going to be published.
Thanks for the clarification.
Cheers,
Marc
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
... snip ...
No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships.
... snip ...
just FYI,
http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Broadcom_wireless_on_Fedora_8
rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca ========================================================================
On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 08:47 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
... snip ...
No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships.
... snip ...
just FYI,
http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Broadcom_wireless_on_Fedora_8
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca
I'm not sure what the link is for since I know how to install it.
My question relates whether I should document it and what the stance of the Fedora docs project is towards this.
Cheers,
Marc
On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 15:23 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work?
This is slightly different, but I use it to a similar effect. It lets you load each page from edit mode, one at a time. For an intermittent connection failure, this can let you work on content off-line in your preferred editor, saving to the temporary file.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125
- Karsten
Hey all,
I have added the screenshots and modified the page since it was a copy of the Gnome Desktop page.
Can someone look at it and tell me if I'm missing something. Any associated edits done will be greatly appreciated.
The screenshots were manually done and look pretty rough. If someone knows where to get the actual icons from I will go and grab them and replace the ones currently there with the actual icons.
Cheers,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop
On Dec 21, 2007 9:14 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
Hey all,
I have added the screenshots and modified the page since it was a copy of the Gnome Desktop page.
Thanks for the updates, Marc.
Can someone look at it and tell me if I'm missing something. Any associated edits done will be greatly appreciated.
I'm using Xfce right now as my desktop manager, so I will be glad to do so.
The screenshots were manually done and look pretty rough. If someone knows where to get the actual icons from I will go and grab them and replace the ones currently there with the actual icons.
I'll check it out and get back to you.
Cheers,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop
-- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
Another update for Multimedia I just added the gtkpod section at the bottom of the page.
I haven't had a fresh install for awhile so if someone has a fresh install please tell me if automounting of ipod's working out of the box because I have said they haven't.
I'm not to sure whether I should put the menu location or whether I should add a screenshot.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia
On Dec 21, 2007 9:51 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra marc@mwiriadi.id.au wrote:
Another update for Multimedia I just added the gtkpod section at the bottom of the page.
I saw it and did some minor editing already.
I haven't had a fresh install for awhile so if someone has a fresh install please tell me if automounting of ipod's working out of the box because I have said they haven't.
I'm getting the F8 DVD soon and can verify it.
I'm not to sure whether I should put the menu location or whether I should add a screenshot.
Better to do
1. Menu method Select menu -> submenu -> application 2. Console method At the console, type {{{su -c yum install someapp}}} and press [Enter] 3. Screenshot (last resort)
Keep on updating - just me know when you're finished your editing session so I don't accidentally clobber your updates.
BR,
John Babich Lead writer, DUG
Hey all,
I just added Compiz-Fusion does someone want to proof read this I've got to go out for a little bit so feel free to modify and change it.
I've changed some other sections changed the screenshot to F8 and generally checking things out.
I'll work on it a bit later on as well but feel free to look at it.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing
I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository.
In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case.
Your feedback is appreciated regarding this.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
Hey,
I just changed it *slightly*...Are you going to add a section about the repository manager?
Best wishes,
Jon On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository.
In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case.
Your feedback is appreciated regarding this.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository.
In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case.
Your feedback is appreciated regarding this.
Putting this in the manual means that there is now an onus to make sure it's removed when we move to F9, assuming that particular bug is fixed. Do you take the responsibility to do that? :-)
My point is that bug listings have their place, and manuals are probably not that place. Technical documentation generally includes release notes for that purpose. We have a bugs page that tracks these:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common
I wouldn't link everywhere you find a bug, either, because again, this multiplies the effort required to re-edit the guide for each release. Having a link to bug lists or errata in a general information page at the front of the Guide is enough.
On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 14:51 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository.
In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case.
Your feedback is appreciated regarding this.
Putting this in the manual means that there is now an onus to make sure it's removed when we move to F9, assuming that particular bug is fixed. Do you take the responsibility to do that? :-)
My point is that bug listings have their place, and manuals are probably not that place. Technical documentation generally includes release notes for that purpose. We have a bugs page that tracks these:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common
I wouldn't link everywhere you find a bug, either, because again, this multiplies the effort required to re-edit the guide for each release. Having a link to bug lists or errata in a general information page at the front of the Guide is enough.
I'd be more than happy to delete it if the change does occur in F9, I haven't had a look at any further changes so I can't be sure.
Cheers,
Marc
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome * customizing * working with media * etc KDE * customizing * working with media * etc Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
Dan O'Brien wrote:
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work?
Cheers,
Marc
All, I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to start Pirut in gnome and kde.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
More updates soon Regards, Dan O'Brien
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work?
Cheers,
Marc
All, I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to start Pirut in gnome and kde.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
More updates soon Regards, Dan O'Brien
What other pages do you think need to be altered?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work?
Cheers,
Marc
All, I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to start Pirut in gnome and kde.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
More updates soon Regards, Dan O'Brien
What other pages do you think need to be altered?
Cheers,
Marc
Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default Gnome Games" Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/ Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later) Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
None of these are huge things, but for completeness should be touched up.
Regards, Dan O'Brien //
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
<snip>
Marc,
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago.
I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work?
Cheers,
Marc
All, I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to start Pirut in gnome and kde.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut
More updates soon Regards, Dan O'Brien
What other pages do you think need to be altered?
Cheers,
Marc
<snip>
Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default Gnome Games"
I just added some stuff to this after install the kdegames package. I don't think there is an xfce specific games package so I have included an install explanation.
Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/
I don't have KDE installed so can someone who does use it tell me where the locations are? I believe XFCE has a similar menu layout as to KDE.
Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later)
Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it?
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
Cheers,
Marc
<snip> > > > Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if > there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default > Gnome Games"
I just added some stuff to this after install the kdegames package. I don't think there is an xfce specific games package so I have included an install explanation.
Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/
I don't have KDE installed so can someone who does use it tell me where the locations are? I believe XFCE has a similar menu layout as to KDE.
Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later)
Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it?
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
On a side note is there anyone from the KDE Sig or someone that uses KDE regularly?
If not can we contact them so that we can get some feedback as to areas that need altering and verification about certain aspects.
Also can we have a chat to someone who runs xfce exclusively about areas that need altering?
Cheers,
Marc
<snip>
Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later)
Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it?
I've just finished adding this. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the application. I'll fix this if you like?
Cheers,
Marc
Regards, Dan O'Brien
On Jan 6, 2008 10:01 PM, Dan O'Brien dan@new2linux.com wrote:
<snip> > >> Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the >> financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling >> that bit in later) >> > > Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? > I've just finished adding this. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial > >> Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. >> > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > same doesn't it? > Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the application. I'll fix this if you like?
Xfce uses knetworkmanager also.
Love,
John
John Babich wrote:
Xfce uses knetworkmanager also.
Not sure what you mean by that. Upstream doesn't and Fedora Xfce packages doesn't either. It is possible to run either NetworkManager-gnome or knetworkmanager in Xfce but that isn't the default setup.
Rahul
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 20:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
John Babich wrote:
Xfce uses knetworkmanager also.
Not sure what you mean by that. Upstream doesn't and Fedora Xfce packages doesn't either. It is possible to run either NetworkManager-gnome or knetworkmanager in Xfce but that isn't the default setup.
Rahul
It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up. On a default what is the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when packaged does it include a 'default'?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up.
That is likely.
On a default what is
the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when packaged does it include a 'default'?
Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in the Xfce spin I am working on however.
Rahul
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 02:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up.
That is likely.
On a default what is
the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when packaged does it include a 'default'?
Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in the Xfce spin I am working on however.
Rahul
Ok thanks for that, I wanted to make sure that the direction of the docs was correct.
Cheers,
Marc
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 02:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up.
That is likely.
On a default what is
the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when packaged does it include a 'default'?
Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in the Xfce spin I am working on however.
Rahul
Ok thanks for that, I wanted to make sure that the direction of the docs was correct.
Cheers,
Marc
I've touched up the 'Connecting to the internet' page to show the menu location of network manager in KDE and added the menu location and icon for 'Desktop Sharing' in KDE The only thing now missing from this page is the XFCE menu location of network manager.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern...
Regards, Dan O'Brien
<snip>
I just added some love to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern... I added a section for KDE Network Manager since the section above relates to Gnome. Can you fill this out Dan?
Also Rahul can you have a look at the page for XFCE to see if altertions need to be made? If not we might be able to set it to edit ready?
Cheers,
Marc
<snip>
I'm thinking of setting some pages as edit ready. Can someone start looking at them for the 'final' edit status?
Once the DUG has been edited can we do a cross post to other lists to get feedback and input about potential additions and or suggestions?
Cheers,
Marc
Hey Dan,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web
Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on edit status?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc,
I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online again.
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Hey Dan,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web
Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on edit status?
Cheers,
Marc
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc,
I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online again.
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Hey Dan,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web
Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on edit status?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc, I've finished the Network Manager section for KDE, and Desktop Sharing in KDE. Comments? If all is ok, can you put them in edit status?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/SharingDesktop
Regards, Dan O'Brien
On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 22:23 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Dan O'Brien wrote:
Marc,
I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online again.
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Hey Dan,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web
Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on edit status?
Cheers,
Marc
Marc, I've finished the Network Manager section for KDE, and Desktop Sharing in KDE. Comments? If all is ok, can you put them in edit status?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/SharingDesktop
Regards, Dan O'Brien
I've added them to edit status. Nice work with the Sharing Desktop page it looks nice.
Cheers,
Marc
I shifted some stuff around in the following part and I've put it to edit status.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web
I'm going to work on the following over the weekend. I'm not to sure what else needs to be added since if you haven't set up an account it offers to help set it up automatically.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications
Also what it is the default mail client in KDE is it the same as Gnome being evolution?
Cheers,
Marc
<snip>
I have modified the Office[1] page slightly. It needs menu locations for KDE where "blah" is located.
Cheers,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office
Can someone double check that I have the whole list for the KDE Games [1]. If so can we put it on edit status.
If there is some additional information on games that people want to be included just post here.
Cheers,
Marc
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Games
John Babich wrote:
On Jan 6, 2008 10:01 PM, Dan O'Brien dan@new2linux.com wrote:
<snip>
Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later)
Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it?
I've just finished adding this. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the application. I'll fix this if you like?
Xfce uses knetworkmanager also.
Love,
John
OK, I'll touch up the 'Connecting to the internet' page later today or this evening to point the user to the menu location of network manager in each desktop environment.
On a side note, does anyone have a list of outstanding items for the DUG? My fiancee and I are expecting a baby any day now and I'd like to knock out as much as possible before then.
Regards, Dan O'Brien
Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti:
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out that currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we have in Fedora 8.
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 14:41 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti:
On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well.
I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it?
You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out that currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we have in Fedora 8.
Is that still going to be the case for F-9?
On a side note I added some info to the wifi section and started some info on the desktop sharing. I'm hoping someone can upload the KDE icon for desktop sharing.
Cheers,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern...
Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti:
On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 14:41 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote:
You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out that currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we have in Fedora 8.
Is that still going to be the case for F-9?
I don't know, maybe someone from the KDE SIG would know this... I believe Fedora 8 is using a development (svn) version of NetworkManager 0.7. I guess KNetworkManager will be compatible with that once it's officially released?
On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 21:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote:
It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example):
generic content here Gnome
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
KDE
- customizing
- working with media
- etc
Xfce ...
and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice.
You may want to drill back in the mailing list archives a few weeks or so, but I think we did discuss this. Although it's roughly six of one, a half dozen of the other, this organization is probably easier to maintain:
* Generic Content * Customizing ** GNOME ** KDE ** XFCE * Working With Media ** GNOME ** KDE ** XFCE ...
This probably allows easier beat-style spreading of the subject matter.
<snip>
I added some OpenOffice template links in the openoffice page[1] I checked licenses and they should be ok.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office
Cheers,
Marc
I've added a bit of content which may or may not be correct for Configuring the Internet.[1] I would love a quick review on this for guidance relating to Network Manager and whether it's confusing.
I've also contacted Bill Notting because the wireless section is going to take a bit of work and the feature page had him as the point of contact. I'll update it with information once I get some information as in what wireless drivers are supported etc.
VPN wise I have no real clue how to do this so can someone add content for the VPN section. I've never used VPN personally and when I tried at university I had severe issues in getting connected so this is important for me to learn as well.
Regards,
Marc Wiriadisastra
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringIntern...
Hey all,
The gdesklet guide is complete as best as I can. I went through adding the weather plugin in the guide so at least people can get one plugin functioning.
You will find it at the bottom of the page. Now it's sleep time for me those people waking up have a great day.
Feedback as always is welcome.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing
Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons would love some feedback.
I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will remove them.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons would love some feedback.
I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will remove them.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media
Hi Marc, I see what your doing but to find the Gnome cd-dvd burner you click on Places and the CD/DVD Creator. I use this all the time and it is my best way.
Karl
On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:35 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons would love some feedback.
I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will remove them.
Regards,
Marc
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media
Hi Marc, I see what your doing but to find the Gnome cd-dvd burner you click on Places and the CD/DVD Creator. I use this all the time and it is my best way.
Karl
Hi Karl,
That is one of the options there I believe. While I agree that is an option personally I find k3b to be significantly better and that is just my opinion.
I've tried to add the K3b for KDE users as well since we need to make sure that everyone is happy.
If you find any errors/omissions please point them out so I can fix them. Thanks for reading btw :)
Cheers,
Marc
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