21:10 < quaid> <meeting> 21:10 * lfoppiano is ready ;-) 21:10 * quaid is a present Karsten 21:10 * glezos waves 21:10 * couf greets you all 21:10 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- roll call 21:11 * couf Bart Couvreur 21:11 * quaid has the perpetual agenda in front of him 21:11 * couf needs to run in 20min :-/ 21:11 < quaid> I do have an item or two to put in front, then 21:12 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Installation Guide all-hands on deck? 21:12 < quaid> our window for the IG and translation viz. the release is closing rapidly 21:12 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca@AToulon-151-1-128-115.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:12 < quaid> and we may need a fast and furious effort to finish edits and out the door for l10n 21:13 < quaid> I was hoping EvilBob was available to statitize us? 21:13 * jsmith hasn't seen him 21:13 < quaid> it's middle of day there, might be on a job 21:14 < quaid> OK, it's nearing the end of Wed. 16 April 21:14 < couf> I know he was working on it in gobby, not sure what the status is 21:14 < quaid> right, there is something to update 21:14 < quaid> we just haven't seen it in CVS 21:14 < quaid> unfortunately we never did a final schedule for guides 21:14 < quaid> so it's not here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule 21:15 < quaid> but the usual "ten days" may/may not be sufficient for l10n of the IG 21:15 < quaid> presuming it is, we need to drop the POT over the weekend 21:15 < quaid> if we had changes in CVS we could begin to get an idea of how fuzzy and new it is 21:16 < glezos> quaid: how different is the F9 IG from F8? 21:16 < quaid> dunno 21:16 < quaid> haven't seen changes 21:16 < quaid> iirc 21:16 < couf> hmm, probably a section on pre-upgrade 21:16 < quaid> the changes aren't that big, but there is new stuff in Anaconda 21:16 < jsmith> Including the encryption stuff 21:16 < couf> and the resizing 21:16 < glezos> quaid: I guess delivering IG in translated versions couldn't hurt being delayed a few days, if needed. 21:16 < quaid> ok 21:17 < couf> I tend to agree 21:17 < quaid> but let's shoot for better than that, unless it means missing content features 21:17 * quaid hates shipping beta docs with GA 21:17 < quaid> but, you know, it's open sourcery and all that :) 21:18 < quaid> we can do rolling rebuilds and posts to the website so it gets progressively better :) 21:18 < quaid> ok, action: 21:18 < quaid> by this time Thursday we need to get all changes in CVS 21:18 < quaid> so we can do an estimate on what needs to be done 21:18 < quaid> and put as many resources in Bob's hands 21:18 < quaid> to get this done 21:18 * quaid doesn't know, maybe it's all done already :) 21:19 < couf> no CVS changes yet 21:20 < couf> ow hang, on, there are some 21:20 < quaid> since March? 21:21 < couf> well, I was looking since F8, since 19 March not anymore 21:21 < quaid> only l10n 21:21 < quaid> on F-8 21:22 < quaid> right oh 21:22 < couf> right 21:22 < quaid> anything more on this? 21:22 * quaid added these items to the agenda page btw 21:23 < quaid> onward => 21:24 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Recruiting, retention -- training and self-documentation in the post-F9 world 21:24 < couf> go 21:24 < quaid> I'm sort of answering my own question in that topic 21:24 < quaid> but ... 21:24 < quaid> quick story: 21:25 < quaid> we have more people on the team, and as always, more to write about 21:25 < quaid> ironically, Paul is finding a bit less time to work on stuff; folks like mdious are balancing this by coming in and sucking our brains dry for knowledge 21:25 -!- red_alert [n=ill@fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:26 < quaid> and once we get our heads above release waters (flood) 21:26 < quaid> was thinking we could spend a month or so working on our own training materials and self-docs 21:26 < jsmith> I think that would be great 21:26 < quaid> (simultaneous with wiki migration, etc.) 21:26 < quaid> we've actually a fair pile of training materials 21:27 < jsmith> It would help people like me who feel very much out of the loop because we dont' understand how things work yet 21:27 < quaid> and we can film Docs how-to sessions at FUDCon, then use those for new folks 21:27 < quaid> exactamente 21:27 < quaid> folks like stickster, couf, glezos, and me need to have others who are willing 21:27 < quaid> help us pour outwards what is trapped in the brains 21:27 < couf> aye 21:28 < quaid> I hope glezos GSoC projects will help with that, growing the brains who understand DL/Tx on the l10n side 21:28 -!- marek_ [n=pyxel@sativa.morph.sk] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:28 < glezos> quaid: that's the goal. create a community around our tools, etc. 21:28 < glezos> +1 for howtos.. And screencasts maybe..? :) 21:28 < quaid> and if e.g. we do get hooked up with a tech writing class, having the full curriculum ready to go is going to be a major incentive to instructors/professors, and enabler to success 21:29 < quaid> glezos: +1 21:29 -!- marek [n=pyxel@fedora/pyxel] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29 < jsmith> absolutely! 21:29 < jsmith> +2 from me 21:29 < quaid> did anyone see dmalcolm's docbook-lint? 21:29 < couf> yeah, that's a very neet thing 21:29 < jsmith> I saw the announcement, but haven't looked at it yet 21:29 < quaid> from the description sounds good 21:29 < quaid> I think we have a revolution in toolchain on our hands, too 21:29 < couf> yep, would like to see that in the toolchain, eat our own dogfood 21:29 < quaid> all good timing to make automagic the obscure, etc. 21:30 < jsmith> Viva la revolucion! 21:30 < quaid> roll over dead rover! 21:30 * quaid thinks that was the wrong rally call ... 21:30 -!- marek_ is now known as marek 21:30 < couf> :) 21:30 < quaid> hmm, yeah, must remember to start talking toolchain in May 21:30 < quaid> we should be a bit ahead of the meeting with RHT Content Services folks, if we can 21:31 < quaid> ok, action: 21:31 < quaid> * focus on training and self-docs in post-F9 world is a good thing 21:31 < quaid> anything else on this 'un? 21:31 < stickster> Let's put some responsible people on the hook for this. 21:31 * quaid tried to get the important stuff in front for couf and others with wandering attention spans :) 21:31 < quaid> oh, yeah 21:31 < quaid> what have we got: 21:32 < quaid> * toolchain changes and documenting 21:32 < quaid> * overall procedures for write => publish 21:32 * couf wants to do some toolchain mastering 21:32 < quaid> * how to interact/work with the team 21:32 < quaid> couf: you are hired! 21:32 < quaid> any other functional areas for training/self-docs? 21:33 < quaid> presuming within each of those are: pages, videos, screencasts 21:33 < couf> if we get this out, it'll be a good start 21:33 < quaid> so, tools -- stickster already said he wants to do this, that, and the other; couf too 21:34 < stickster> I'd like to do: 21:34 < quaid> jsmith: will you work with me on the write => publish? 21:34 < stickster> * showing people how the Makefile works 21:34 < stickster> (Makefile.common, sorry) 21:34 < quaid> stickster: yes, sub to toolchain? 21:34 < stickster> * Fixing up a new toolchain that is less... hacky. 21:34 < stickster> We might start this as a fedorahosted project and go from there. 21:35 < stickster> This would not be a competitor to publican as much as surrounding stuff so people could use that or other tools. 21:35 < stickster> i.e. more meta than thou 21:35 < quaid> +1 21:35 < quaid> right, we need a toolchain that calls various stuff, including publican 21:35 < couf> sorry guys, need to bail out now 21:35 < stickster> It would be great if I could work on some toolchain issues now, but seeing as how it's looking like I'll be working on the IG shortly... no telling. 21:35 < quaid> we could rip out the parts that publican does and make that modular 21:35 -!- fugolini [n=francesc@host20-200-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:36 < quaid> stickster: hold that thought, we'll see how it goes :) 21:36 < quaid> couf: ciao, thx 21:36 < stickster> Thanks couf 21:36 * couf keeps logging and will do a summary if no-one wants too 21:36 < quaid> jsmith: in addition to "write => publish" can you be, like, the Dean of Fedora Docs Tech College? 21:36 < quaid> couf: +1 thanks 21:37 < quaid> jsmith: not to be the do-all but to make sure we get all our gaps covered and it's nice 21:37 < stickster> Docs Whipmaster! 21:37 < quaid> we might be able to get a bit of help, e.g. get choke drunk at FUDCon and get him to promise to edit our videos :) 21:37 < stickster> Good luck with that. 21:37 < quaid> stickster: that's still me :) 21:38 < stickster> Man can hold his liquor. 21:38 < quaid> heh 21:38 * quaid has seen 21:38 < quaid> but sometimes we can fund a FUDpub like no one else 21:38 -!- uosiu [i=uosiu@83.168.125.9] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:38 < uosiu> hi all 21:38 < quaid> ok, moving along ... 21:39 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- SSS punt to post F9 21:39 < quaid> this is one we didn't start working on early enough 21:39 < quaid> and it is now irrelevant for this release :) 21:39 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca@AToulon-151-1-128-115.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:39 < quaid> except for the marketing stuff, but that happens anyway, so we can insert it etc. 21:39 < stickster> Yup, *sigh 21:39 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca@86.197.193.254] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:39 < quaid> eh, we tried 21:39 < stickster> This doesn't really put us behind at least, 21:39 < quaid> nope 21:39 < stickster> just something we should try again earlier next time. 21:39 < quaid> and frees our minds a bit 21:39 < uosiu> am i wrong or ambassadors meeting will be in next half hour? 21:39 < quaid> sure, we'll get it dialed in post-F9 21:40 < quaid> because it will be relevant for ~6 weeks of post-release frenzy 21:40 < quaid> and always useful to Ambassadors 21:40 < quaid> oh, oh! 21:40 < quaid> this reminds me ... 21:40 < quaid> I need to make sure Marketing does the talking points so we can get the l10n-appropriate announcements in gear 21:41 < quaid> stickster: unless you can spout those off anyway and make it so? 21:41 < stickster> quaid: I think we're going to be hammering those out early next week in RDU 21:41 < quaid> ok 21:41 < quaid> maybe you guys can just finish the subset that count 21:41 < stickster> Is there someone doing a cute announcement yet? 21:41 < quaid> * talking points 21:41 < quaid> * press release 21:42 -!- awjb [i=awjb@we.have.lowlatency.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42 < quaid> * cute announcement? 21:42 < quaid> not yet :) 21:42 < quaid> we need the talking points first, to be honest 21:42 < quaid> but getting someone on ... 21:42 < stickster> Very much so. 21:42 < quaid> how about 21:42 < quaid> jonrob isn't around, I nominate we ask him :) 21:42 < stickster> That's a great idea. 21:42 * quaid yawns and stretches and almost takes out the guy next to him at the cafe 21:43 < quaid> I'll email him and ask him if he wanna 21:43 -!- merouen [n=merouen@adsl196-251-212-206-196.adsl196-7.iam.net.ma] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:44 < glezos> action item: Encourage L10n folks to write their own announcements in a localized fashion (local idioms, etc). 21:44 < stickster> quaid: Super 21:44 < quaid> glezos: +1 thanks 21:45 < quaid> glezos: I want to get these points ready before announcing, I think 21:45 < quaid> and to fix up the "how to" pages 21:45 < glezos> quaid: we'll definitely need them before announcing. 21:45 < glezos> please please get them 1-2 days before. 21:46 < quaid> well, we could have this all ready for us by Wed of next week 21:46 < quaid> 23 April soon enough? 21:46 < glezos> quaid: sure. 21:47 < quaid> ok 21:47 < glezos> awesome 21:48 < jsmith> Sorry guys... I've gotta run... remote family showed up unexpectedly 21:48 < jsmith> (drove eight hours to get here too) 21:48 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-away 21:48 < stickster> quaid: I've got talking points on the agenda. 21:48 < stickster> sorry, my agenda for RDU 21:49 * stickster tries not to be confus{ed,ing} as he moves from virtdesktop to virtdesktop. 21:49 < stickster> OK, I have to jet too. Must work on a couple things before my preso tonight. 21:50 -!- viking-ice [n=johannbg@157-157-83-101.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:50 < quaid> ok 21:50 < quaid> stickster: I'm putting you guys on the hook for it on Marketing/Tasks 21:51 -!- fabian_a [n=fabian@77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:51 * stickster needs another minder just to keep track of all the todo lists in different places. 21:52 -!- fab_ [n=fab@77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:52 < merouen> hello , the EMEA meeting was canceled ? 21:52 -!- fab_ [n=fab@77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53 < glezos> stickster: freemind (java) maybe. 21:53 -!- fabian_a [n=fabian@77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:53 < quaid> merouen: I think it's not yet 21:53 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 21:53 < merouen> all right 21:53 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel 21:54 < stickster> glezos: More to the point, it would be good if we had tickets for every old thing under the sun in a project-wide Trac. 21:54 < quaid> merouen: it's at 2000 UTC 21:54 < quaid> hmmm 21:54 < glezos> yeah.. (i thought personal todos) 21:54 < quaid> stickster: are you thinking ... 21:54 < merouen> ok 21:54 < quaid> stickster: fedorahosted.org/docs-land? 21:54 < stickster> The apps exist, we just need one for Fedora that's universally accessible and tracks to everyone through their personal favorite apps 21:54 < quaid> and put the toolchain in that? 21:54 < stickster> quaid: something like that 21:55 < quaid> right 21:55 < stickster> fedora-docs-tools 21:55 < quaid> make that part of "self-doc" :) 21:55 < stickster> or fedora-doc-utils 21:55 < quaid> yeah, separate projects is actually best 21:55 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: slack 21:55 < quaid> but aggregating the to-do lists, yes, that is the pita 21:55 < glezos> maybe fedora-docs-devel. <evil-grin> 21:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: slack 21:56 < quaid> ;-P 21:56 < quaid> re-publican? 21:56 < quaid> ok, here, for the record: 21:56 * stickster smacks quaid ;-) 21:56 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- round up of content status 21:56 < quaid> IG - discussed 21:57 < quaid> relnotes - all built for GA? 9+ languages at 100% 21:57 < quaid> UG - love me! need to work on this *and* IG, but IG has to take precedent 21:57 < stickster> quaid: Just making some last cleanup changes 21:58 < quaid> SMG - hmmm .... was going to get couf to look at that conversion; maybe paul and I need to stop being lame and do that? j/k! 21:58 < quaid> -- SMG needs a post 21:58 < quaid> -- SMG needs a post XML conversion checkover to give jsmith any pointers, etc. 21:58 -!- jsmith-away is now known as jsmith 21:58 < jsmith> +1 21:58 < quaid> Security Guide -- just how-to setup encryption post-install for now, Sparks has plans here for a full guide, discussed with Fedora Security Team :) 21:59 < quaid> AG -- post F9 work, as agreed previously 21:59 < quaid> anything else in our one remaining minute? 21:59 < quaid> 30 seconds left :) 21:59 < quaid> 3 21:59 < quaid> 2 22:00 < quaid> 1 22:00 < quaid> </meeting>