23:00:05 <jjmcd> #startmeeting Docs Project Weekly Meeting 23:00:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 17 23:00:05 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:00:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 23:00:23 <Emad78> hi jjmcd 23:00:32 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 23:00:42 <jjmcd> #topic roll call 23:00:43 <laubersm> .fas laubersm 23:00:44 <zodbot> laubersm: laubersm 'Susan Lauber' susan@ties.org 23:00:45 * jjmcd 23:00:53 <Emad78> me 23:00:57 * ianweller 23:00:59 * stickster 23:01:08 * rudi is here 23:01:16 * Emad78 is here 23:01:54 <jjmcd> #topic Follow up on last week's action items 23:02:05 <jjmcd> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-11/docs.2010-03-11-0... 23:02:47 <jjmcd> stickster - wiki? 23:02:48 * stickster reports all his action items are finished. 23:03:06 * jjmcd also, and ke4qqq isn't here 23:03:19 <jjmcd> And hi Ben 23:03:21 <stickster> jjmcd: I took care of ke4qqq's for him too :-) 23:03:29 <bcotton> hi jjmcd 23:03:32 <jjmcd> Uitstekend - so all done 23:03:52 <jjmcd> OK this next one should be quick 23:03:56 <jjmcd> #topic Desktop Help Summit 23:04:03 <jjmcd> Any last minute topics for jjmcd to carry to the DHS? 23:04:20 <jjmcd> shaunm, I will identify a conf room and post instructions on the wiki 23:04:38 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd will identify a conf room and post instructions on the Gnome wiki 23:04:57 <jjmcd> anything else on the desktop help summit 23:05:23 <jjmcd> OK, now the big one 23:05:36 <jjmcd> #topic Release Notes 23:05:47 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beat_status 23:06:04 * stickster posted a schedule to the list today 23:06:11 * nathant slips in late at the back 23:06:22 <jjmcd> I have identified the beat status and especially beats where new contributors could get involved 23:06:49 <jjmcd> If there is a beat with "opportunity" in bold, it should be relatively easy for a new contributor 23:07:08 <Emad78> I will try to put something in there if I can. 23:07:28 <stickster> We need to start getting content ported pronto. What is our approach going to be for beats where no one is contributing? 23:07:35 <jjmcd> If a beat has possible opportunity, it will take a little more work 23:07:45 <jjmcd> stickster, I've been going after those 23:08:05 <jjmcd> I figure those are probably the topughest 23:08:28 <jjmcd> My strategy is to look at the change table, try to pick heavy hitters, and chase down the upstream release notes 23:08:28 * stickster waits for details 23:08:48 <jjmcd> I can only guess at what is important 23:09:02 <stickster> What is the change table you're referring to? Is that the list of all packages that have changed? 23:09:05 <jjmcd> But in some cases, e.g. Entertainment, I really haven't a clue 23:09:12 <jjmcd> stickster, yes 23:09:23 <jjmcd> there is a link at the bottom of Documentation_Beats 23:09:48 <stickster> I would recommend that in the absence of any other beat content, we stick with what's on the feature list. 23:10:08 <stickster> Those pages should have release notes content or at least a pointer to where we can gather it. 23:10:15 <jjmcd> WHerever there is something on the feature list, the beat is bolded 23:10:29 <jjmcd> new contributors can work off the feature list without a lot of exploration 23:10:38 <stickster> quaid: rudi: Input appreciated too 23:10:42 <jjmcd> ANd the beat page has a link to the feature list 23:11:04 <jjmcd> laubersm, will you be around over the weekend? 23:11:22 <laubersm> I'll be in and out. I hope to pay attention to the desktop summit irc room 23:11:51 <jjmcd> I'll be off to the summit, but it would be nice if someone could marshall the troups for xml conversion 23:12:09 <jjmcd> I did a couple of easy beats this morning so new contributors have an example 23:12:12 <laubersm> That is this weekend? 23:12:20 <jjmcd> yes 23:12:30 <stickster> jjmcd: Let's start marshalling the troops *now* 23:12:38 <jjmcd> Next couple days I want to focus on getting content into the hard beats 23:12:52 <laubersm> Are we still having a howto after the meeting tonight? 23:13:12 <jjmcd> WOW, I totally forgot about that. Sounds good to me 23:13:47 <jjmcd> Many, many thanks to rudi for doing the branch and building the empty document BTW, Saved me tons of time 23:14:02 <rudi> NP 23:14:02 <laubersm> I'm already multitasking a bunch of things this weekend - including a 4-5 hour drive on Sunday where I will not be online 23:14:15 <jjmcd> #info rudi is awesome 23:14:49 <jjmcd> I obviously won't be a lot of use from Friday PM until Mon PM except maybe a little monday AM 23:14:52 <laubersm> I can probably help some Friday night and Sat morning 23:14:58 <jjmcd> Great 23:15:06 <jjmcd> Perhaps we can get some folks launched 23:15:07 <stickster> jjmcd: I think that's why I would rather we work on getting beats put into Publican now 23:15:25 <stickster> And make adding content the second priority. 23:15:42 <stickster> If the POT doesn't exist at all translators have nothing to work on. 23:15:48 <rudi> I'll take the installer today -- there are substantial changes in F13 23:15:48 <stickster> We're already late for them 23:15:53 <jjmcd> Good point, 23:16:13 <jjmcd> rudi, outstanding. I think mether started on that 23:16:19 <rudi> Oh OK 23:16:21 <jjmcd> and there are plenty of feature pages 23:16:51 <jjmcd> rudi got all the more or less boilerplate in there, and there are a few beats done 23:17:16 <jjmcd> OK, well, after the meeting we can get some work done during the howto 23:17:23 <jjmcd> is everyone up for that? 23:17:35 <Emad78> I should be able to do some. 23:17:52 <bcotton> jjmcd: will the howto be sent around? i won't be able to stick around after the meeting, but i'd like to see what i still don't know 23:17:53 <laubersm> I can stick around for a little while 23:18:25 <nathant> i won't be able stick around after the meeting 23:18:34 <nathant> happy to do catch-up reading though! 23:18:39 <jjmcd> Well, I assumed we would do it on #fedora-meeting. If you leave your IRC client on it can keep a log. Heck, I guess we could start meetbot 23:19:03 <jjmcd> #action we will use meetbot for tonight's howto and post the log on the list 23:19:16 <nathant> great 23:19:17 <jjmcd> Is that a reasonable approach? 23:19:21 <stickster> yep yep 23:19:33 * bcotton approves 23:20:14 <jjmcd> For any of the new folks, don't be shy about picking up any of the beats 23:20:59 <jjmcd> OK, before we talk about the change tables, anything else release notes related? 23:21:25 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Fedora_13_tables 23:21:30 <jjmcd> Has everyone seen this? 23:21:41 * Emad78 has 23:22:24 * laubersm likes the idea 23:22:27 <jjmcd> Anyone with plusses/minuses about a separate document? 23:22:42 <bcotton> i think it's a good idea 23:22:50 <Emad78> I totally agree with it also. 23:22:57 <rudi> jjmcd -- as I said on the list -- go for it! 23:22:59 <jjmcd> I'm liking it too, obviously, only problem is we need a new repo, new package, etc. etc. etc. 23:23:15 <jjmcd> But I need to learn to deal with that anyway 23:23:25 <rudi> jjmcd -- yeah, don't sweat that stuff 23:23:41 <jjmcd> THere's awesome infra guys that make stuff happen 23:23:55 * stickster left a comment on title 23:24:23 <jjmcd> OK, so it sounds like we go sith it 23:24:36 <stickster> np here 23:24:43 <stickster> Split == good. 23:24:52 <jjmcd> ianweller - some pages in the wiki have a fedora version macro that says 12, how do we say 13? 23:25:13 <ianweller> we edit [[Template:FedoraVersion]] 23:25:23 <ianweller> er 23:25:27 <ianweller> sorry, mkisread 23:25:28 <ianweller> misread* 23:25:35 <ianweller> {{FedoraVersion|next}}, i believe 23:25:40 <stickster> yup 23:25:43 <ianweller> stickster knows more, he wrote the template ^_^ 23:25:47 <jjmcd> Ahhhh, cool 23:25:55 * rudi has just left a different note on the title :) 23:25:59 <jjmcd> OK 23:26:14 <rudi> So are folks here happy if we start removing the tables from the XML of the RN? 23:26:26 <jjmcd> I'd be tickled to death 23:26:30 * stickster has just left a different different note :-) 23:26:54 * jjmcd is glad his server only fetches the mail every 5 minutes 23:27:02 <rudi> lolz 23:27:20 <rudi> jjmcd -- comments are on the Talk page on the wiki, not on the list :S 23:27:28 <jjmcd> So, besides the howto coming up, anything else on release notes? 23:27:33 <jjmcd> Oh good 23:28:20 <jjmcd> #topic Guide Status 23:28:42 <jjmcd> Has everyone updates the schedule 23:28:43 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule 23:29:36 <stickster> jjmcd: What is the follow-through plan for the guides with no names beside them? 23:29:40 * jjmcd needs to start IRCing from a faster box 23:29:58 <jjmcd> Most have an owner, Sparks has a list 23:30:08 <jjmcd> but some owners may need relief 23:30:09 <stickster> jjmcd: Is it on the wiki perchance? 23:30:25 <jjmcd> Some are on the meeting page 23:31:08 * jjmcd would offer to email the missing owners, but with heads-down until the rpm wednesday, I'm sure to forget 23:31:24 <rudi> list is here -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table 23:31:42 <rudi> (needs a little updating) 23:31:48 <jjmcd> Yes, I think that is included on the meeting page 23:31:54 <rudi> Ah sorry :) 23:31:59 <rudi> So it is :) 23:32:30 <rudi> stickster -- I'm standing by to take care of anything not owned 23:32:43 <jjmcd> How about we defer this until next week when the beta rpm is out the door, and who knows, maybe we will have our fearless leader back 23:32:50 <stickster> true true 23:32:55 * stickster defers, first things first 23:32:57 <stickster> rudi: Thanks 23:33:14 <jjmcd> #action Handle missing guide owners at March 24 meeting 23:33:16 * stickster would rather see more shared load there, for sure 23:33:29 <stickster> jjmcd: That's a good time to do it, since SRPM package review is a week afterward 23:33:54 <jjmcd> And after some of the newer contributors have had a chance to play in the release notes they may be up for taking one of those guides under their wing 23:34:42 <jjmcd> Do any of the guide owners here present need any help? Any issues? 23:35:50 <jjmcd> Anything else on guides? 23:36:07 <stickster> *chirp chirp* :-D 23:36:19 <jjmcd> OK then 23:36:22 <jjmcd> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 23:36:27 <laubersm> I'm still waiting on danielsm to send me updates for user guide 23:36:47 <laubersm> that likely won't make it in until F14 anyways but still 23:37:00 <laubersm> last I heard they were on a system at "home" where he would be this week 23:37:13 <jjmcd> Ahhh yes, I recall those comments 23:37:22 <jjmcd> Wasn't he in RDU this week 23:37:36 <jjmcd> OK 23:37:37 <rudi> laubersm -- do you think you'll have the bandwidth to incorporate Murray's notes from the list? 23:37:40 <jjmcd> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classifica... 23:38:30 <laubersm> rudi, very likely. I just checked and I do have that email starred but I have not looked at it yet 23:38:53 * laubersm thinks she should look at the due dates before committing such things... 23:38:58 <rudi> ;) 23:39:23 * jjmcd still wants to know how to incorporate precognition into .procmailrc 23:39:43 <Emad78> I can do Murray's email. I've looked at it and gone through it all. 23:40:03 <laubersm> Emad78, COol! go for it. 23:40:18 <Emad78> I have it all marked up with all his notes. :) 23:40:32 <jjmcd> Oh way cool 23:40:36 <Emad78> laubersm: I need a bug report right? 23:40:47 <laubersm> Emad78, you have commit access already? Or should we get that taken care of tonight? 23:40:54 <laubersm> Emad78, no bug necessary 23:41:11 <Emad78> I have access to the User-Guide already for commits. 23:41:13 <laubersm> unless you do not have commit rights and do not want commit rights 23:41:28 <jjmcd> Emad78, the bug is really a communication feature, not a permission thing 23:41:31 <laubersm> Emad78, great - then just fix it :) 23:41:38 <Emad78> Ok, I'm on it. 23:41:46 <jjmcd> Outstanding 23:41:49 <laubersm> Emad78, what jjmcd said - and a tracking option 23:41:50 <stickster> woohoo! 23:42:31 <jjmcd> So, does anyone need any help with bugs? Any particular issues? 23:43:13 <jjmcd> #info Emad78 showing evidence of awseomeness 23:43:30 * Emad78 is just trying to help out. 23:43:38 <jjmcd> :-)) 23:43:50 <jjmcd> anything else on guides/bugs? 23:44:02 <laubersm> rudi, is user guide branched and ready for master to have F13 updates? 23:44:13 * laubersm is too lazy to look at the moment 23:44:27 <rudi> laubersm -- changes go into "master" 23:44:29 * laubersm figures if anyone has done it recently, it was rudi 23:44:38 <rudi> We only branch when we're ready to drop to translation 23:44:54 <rudi> (which then freezes the content in the F13 branch) 23:44:56 <laubersm> got it 23:45:01 <laubersm> thanks 23:45:06 <rudi> The RN is a bit different ;) 23:45:13 <laubersm> Emad78, are you playing with the F13 alpha yet? 23:45:25 <Emad78> laubersm: No I haven't 23:45:37 * laubersm notes that she has mostly worked on release notes so that would explain the confusion 23:45:58 * jjmcd still needs to make an alpha stick 23:46:04 <stickster> rudi: Re: branching and translation 23:46:05 <laubersm> Emad78, because it is also past time to be looking for things to update for F13 in there as well. 23:46:41 <stickster> rudi: Are we going to have the opportunity to do another update before the final translation period, as noted in the email I sent to the Docs list earlier? Was that schedule sane? 23:46:41 <Emad78> laubersm: Ok I can get it and try to get something out of it. 23:47:08 <laubersm> Leave any details like screen shots and menu names for a while - they may still change again - but anything major like "default app" 23:47:30 <rudi> stickster -- with the RN, we were able to do so in the past, and your advice re string changes was succinct and on the money :) 23:47:32 <laubersm> or this no longer exists now type things can be done now 23:47:36 <Emad78> laubersm: Got it. I'll see what I can find. 23:47:41 <jjmcd> There were some default changes I think 23:47:59 <rudi> For the guides, once they're branched, we need to ask for exceptions from L10N to make changes in (say) the F13 branch 23:48:41 <stickster> rudi: Okeydoke -- thanks for the head check :-) 23:48:51 <laubersm> Emad78, like empathy as the new gnome IM default instead of pidgen - unless you do preupgrade like I did and it leaves pidgen... 23:48:55 <rudi> The real risk (which we've encountered in the past) is that once we change something in a branch, the big, well-staffed teams can accommodate it, but it places a much larger burden on the smaller (one-person!) teams 23:49:26 <stickster> laubersm: Emad78: Yeah, really the good thing to do is install F13 Alpha + updates to a VM and write based on what you see there 23:49:27 <Emad78> laubersm: Ok I see, well I'll get the Alpha and check it out. 23:49:36 <stickster> agreed 23:49:48 <stickster> rudi: Right. 23:50:17 <stickster> rudi: One thing we have on our side is an updates flow for the pending release 23:50:27 <Emad78> stickster: Is this always the DVD or just the Live CD??? 23:50:36 <rudi> Yep; as long as we're *adding* stuff we're OK 23:50:49 <rudi> (for the RN!) 23:50:58 <stickster> rudi: *nod 23:51:09 <stickster> We should be careful not to tinker with changes too much in the existing strings 23:51:43 <rudi> Yeah; that's something for new folks here to keep in mind 23:51:55 <jjmcd> For the new folks, making unnecessary changes adds to the translation work 23:52:14 <rudi> So, for example, if something's not actually *wrong* in an existing guide, avoid changing it 23:52:22 <jjmcd> Obviously you want to fix something that is just plain wrong, but minor cosmetic changes, no 23:52:39 * Emad78 copies that. 23:53:14 <stickster> quaid: Do we currently have a working python-mwlib? I know about the dep problem, fixing it with a new update. 23:53:26 <stickster> quaid: Can we effectively pull down a page though? 23:54:38 <stickster> #info If something's not actually *wrong* in an existing piece of text, don't change it after we send to translators. 23:54:50 * stickster reminds that we should be using meetbot to keep notes for us ;-) 23:55:12 <jjmcd> OK, move on? 23:55:14 <stickster> IRC is tough enough already because it only catches people who are here -- we need the records on the list for people not here 23:55:24 <jjmcd> #topic All other business 23:55:34 <jjmcd> Hey David --- evenin' 23:55:40 <stickster> jjmcd: Are we copacetic with trading off meeting chairing? 23:55:44 <ke4qqq> hi jjmcd 23:56:01 <jjmcd> Sounds good to me 23:56:06 <stickster> k 23:56:09 <stickster> #agreed stickster will chair next meeting on 2010-03-24 23:56:14 <jjmcd> I'll be fried next week anyway, after the rpm! 23:56:22 <jjmcd> Anything else to come before this august assembly? 23:56:36 * stickster has nothing further but can help for a couple hours tonight with porting assuming our tool works 23:56:59 <stickster> jjmcd: Are you going to let the translators know when we'll have POT to them? 23:57:05 <stickster> Do we have an ETA for that? 23:57:27 <jjmcd> Don't have an ETA yet, but I am thinking we could be a long way along in 24 hours 23:57:44 <stickster> jjmcd: Let's commit to something 23:58:07 <stickster> Can we try for 11:00pm Eastern tomorrow night? That would be... er 23:58:16 <stickster> 2010-03-19 UTC 0300 23:58:33 <jjmcd> Sounds about right 23:58:37 <stickster> i.e. set a goal, then achieve it 23:58:39 <stickster> k 23:58:46 * stickster hopes zodbot is listening to him 23:59:02 <jjmcd> #action Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning 23:59:10 <rudi> worksforme 23:59:15 <stickster> jjmcd: need a person for that #action I think 23:59:18 <stickster> #undo 23:59:24 <jjmcd> rudi - you will deal with the mechanics? 23:59:24 <stickster> yeah, zoddie's ignoring me :-) 23:59:36 * jjmcd is suspicious of undo 23:59:40 <jjmcd> #undo 23:59:40 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2843bad0> 23:59:56 <rudi> jjmcd -- yep, I'll do the plumbing 00:00:07 <jjmcd> #action Have POTs ready 0300Z Friday morning - jjmcd get conversion done, rudi will do the plumbing 00:00:36 <jjmcd> OK, we are out of clock. Anything else? 00:00:57 <jjmcd> Then we go to #fedora-docs for howto 00:01:10 <jjmcd> 10 00:01:16 <jjmcd> 5 00:01:21 <jjmcd> 4 00:01:35 <jjmcd> 3 seconds are too fast, these are lazy seconds 00:01:38 <jjmcd> 2 00:01:46 <jjmcd> 1 00:01:55 <jjmcd> THanks everyone 00:01:59 <jjmcd> #endmeeting