On 16 December 2015 at 15:29, Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com wrote:

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own words.

* http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series-my... * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

Thanks, Pravin Satpute _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

• http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series-my...
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

The fact that I, more recently, doing fedora localization into Russian. and of course I have read your wiki page, but besides the general, "marketing" phrases I could not see anything.

what issues will decide this project? what are the goals for the project fedora. you can find the time to express their own vision and not to answer me a link 3 years ago?

I personally see the existing problems at the stage of localization, and you offer to the problems of old projects to add a new project. budget plan, assign positions. how it will solve the existing problems? I'm sure it will only create new ones, in the best case situation is not Change, apart from financial costs. _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

On 16 December 2015 at 15:52, Zoltan Hoppar hopparz@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee, but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee

• (TransCom, maybe).

I liked your idea of having Translation steering/governance committee. Translation is huge effort with many language sub-group and lots of activity. I think we should proceed for it. We definitely need one.

At G11N level, i think L10N, I18N, Zanata and QA group should gather and create bigger picture. We are actually doing it without any formal group presently. So just want to have some formal group in Fedora for this. As mentioned in proposal [1] couple of members from Translation group can represent for input/things required from other groups in G11N.

1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_G11N_Steering_Committee_Proposal

I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo, where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations. Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances, group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

Right. We have to make this easy. We created presentation template in recent FAD where new comers can quickly understand what things need to be done. Noriko can share it with us. At least easiest task is start with Wiki cleanup.

- Pravin

Zoltan

2015-12-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com:

...

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own words. -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/trans@lists.fedoraproject.org

-- PGP: 06853DF7 _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

_______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

Le 22/06/2020 à 08:28, Pravin Satpute a écrit :

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:33 AM Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz@gmail.com mailto:hopparz@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee,
but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the
purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee
- (TransCom, maybe).
I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo,
where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations.
Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should
provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances,
group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

+1 The Translation group has made very good progress. Zanata -> Weblate.  etc. and very active from the last 6-12 months. Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for driving many things. Need to keep momentum up !!

Very few people attended the last meetings, my feeling is that we have no real tasks for newcomers, except translating, which doesn't require to attend any kind of meeting.

Fedora docs internationalization and translation platform migrations are really complex things to start with. An we already know any internationalization related subject is complex because of the related technologies that are out of reach of non-dev workers.

Fedora mindset is upstream firsts, which means we don't have much end-user applications to translate, which probably is a priority for translators.

I like the idea of having a space for us, what about creating a real documentation space? I created a mockup there: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/localization/

It is easy to update, publish and translate.

I would also love to see article, about current status of language support, but it is difficult to find active people for rare languages. Could we run interviews? I'm of course interested in languages with small communities (Africa, Asia, Russia, endangered languages, ...).

We could organize translations focus? Like: this month, let's fix this kind of errors detected by Weblate in our projects.

About the name, I like the way LibreOffice calls it "Native language", which makes it broader than just translation: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language (note, we once had Fedora Language Testing group ;)).

This could make a good agenda, what do you think?

* documentation for contributors * communication * community activities promotion and organization * name of the group (which may impact the name of our documentation, but that's easy to change)

Jean-Baptiste

On 16 December 2015 at 21:07, Patrick マルタインアンドレアス U puiterwijk@fedoraproject.org wrote:

Hi,

...

For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for it. [2]

Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current Internationalization (i18n) Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n?

In fact i think that was idea earlier. I18n group is more active with Fedora development life cycle. Merge two groups under G11N initiative and synchronise plus points. i.e. More language experts in L10N and more developers aligned with Fedora development life cycle in i18n.

But after executing it for 6 months, i feel though there are few points to synchronize, there are also number of different topics which just required sub-group level attention. More L10N and more i18n expertise.

So rather than complete merge of activities, just collaborate on common requirement points under G11N governance/committee group make sense. I think that should be goal of G11N steering committee. As given in proposal, it will have members from respective groups.

Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to contribute to internationalization: would that be the i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood includes i18n)?

With new structure. We will have full fledges groups i18n, l10n, QE. Issues required collaboration or higher level attention should get handled by people with different expertise where G11N group comes into picture.

I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but I think that the proposal is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing governance and community activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very broad, marketing-sounding goal in my opinion, and not very clear.

Agree. I think we need to work further on improving proposal. Added sentence regarding its Draft status. :)

What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be governing? Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more contributors, organize events, ...? Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise funds.

+1 I saw Localization steering committee objectives was very well explained. [1] We need to further work on it.

Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team, especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning" and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help from Ambassadors for these parts, since they are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a lot of g11n people might be ambassadors, I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this. (note: this is based on some expectations from me regarding goals for this committee, see previous point).

Good point. !! For getting fund/budget for G11N activities, we need to work with Council, Ambassadors/FAMSco group. I am active Ambassadors from last one year and learned number of activities get planned during budgeting process. G11N activities i.e. FAD, L10N sprints are presently missing from it.

Ambassadors are experts in there country and with the help of Ambassadors we can try to grow L10N community in respective regions. We can plan and organize events like L10N sprint specifically in APAC regions, there is good scope to grow community with such activity.

This is started happening already with different Ambassadors taking active role in it.

...

Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members, discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with active participation.

Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground in Fedora!

I will rather say thanks for support :) In present situation G11N will become successful only when we will have active L10N community, like we had during 2009. We already have number of active members and i am sure with all, will find way to make L10N again active.

Regards, Pravin Satpute _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

On 16 December 2015 at 23:04, Remy DeCausemaker decause@redhat.com wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:19 PM, pravin.d.s@gmail.com pravin.d.s@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 16 December 2015 at 21:07, Patrick マルタインアンドレアス U puiterwijk@fedoraproject.org wrote:

...

Hi,

...

For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for it. [2]

Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current Internationalization (i18n) Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n?

In fact i think that was idea earlier. I18n group is more active with Fedora development life cycle. Merge two groups under G11N initiative and synchronise plus points. i.e. More language experts in L10N and more developers aligned with Fedora development life cycle in i18n.

But after executing it for 6 months, i feel though there are few points to synchronize, there are also number of different topics which just required sub-group level attention. More L10N and more i18n expertise.

So rather than complete merge of activities, just collaborate on common requirement points under G11N governance/committee group make sense. I think that should be goal of G11N steering committee. As given in proposal, it will have members from respective groups.

...

Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to contribute to internationalization: would that be the i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood includes i18n)?

With new structure. We will have full fledges groups i18n, l10n, QE. Issues required collaboration or higher level attention should get handled by people with different expertise where G11N group comes into picture.

...

I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but I think that the proposal is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing governance and community activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very broad, marketing-sounding goal in my opinion, and not very clear.

Agree. I think we need to work further on improving proposal. Added sentence regarding its Draft status. :)

...

What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be governing? Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more contributors, organize events, ...? Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise funds.

+1 I saw Localization steering committee objectives was very well explained. [1] We need to further work on it.

...

Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team, especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning" and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help from Ambassadors for these parts, since they are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a lot of g11n people might be ambassadors, I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this. (note: this is based on some expectations from me regarding goals for this committee, see previous point).

Good point. !! For getting fund/budget for G11N activities, we need to work with Council, Ambassadors/FAMSco group. I am active Ambassadors from last one year and learned number of activities get planned during budgeting process. G11N activities i.e. FAD, L10N sprints are presently missing from it.

Ambassadors are experts in there country and with the help of Ambassadors we can try to grow L10N community in respective regions. We can plan and organize events like L10N sprint specifically in APAC regions, there is good scope to grow community with such activity.

This is started happening already with different Ambassadors taking active role in it.

...

...

Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members, discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with active participation.

Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground in Fedora!

I will rather say thanks for support :) In present situation G11N will become successful only when we will have active L10N community, like we had during 2009. We already have number of active members and i am sure with all, will find way to make L10N again active.

Regards, Pravin Satpute

I am admittedly not deeply involved in these *vital* parts of Fedora, but I would like to help where I can.

Please keep me in the loop, as I'm happy to help with coordinating and communicating at the Council/FAMSCo level, as localization/internationalization/translation/globalization move forward together.

Happy to help,

Thank you. This is really motivating. :) If we get consensus, we will propose this idea to council for approval.

- Pravin _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org