#26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+----------------------- Changes (by tagoh):

* status: new => assigned

Comment:

might be improved in the future but one advantage to support this so far is, it would be faster to take effects. super+space on gnome-shell often takes some time to apply. just a note.

#26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora- meeting/2013-10-23/i18n.2013-10-23-06.02.log.html#l-23

* need to weigh pros and cons of having kbd input source by default with IME source * indicator should expand IME mode submenu by default, and be placed above IME list * for IMEs defaulting to Latin input, keyboard layout source is normally redundant * framework support for IME mode switching * maybe default IME mode should depend on whether have keyboard input source or not * fast mode switching might be useful for ibus-typing-booster too * maybe only default IMEs to Latin for new users without keyboard source (migration hard to do) * each ibus engine can inherit IBusEngineSimple for Latin mode * xkb is too much on the same level as IMEs * use "Super+space" for mode switching with single source? * ibus switching uses XI2 and anthy mode switching uses gdk keybinding which also works in nested VM box * https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703779

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora- meeting/2013-10-30/i18n.2013-10-30-06.01.log.html#l-49

* mobile IMEs also tend to use mode switching * (some smart mobile keyboards support auto-detecting language)

#26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

Okay summarizing the previous discussions a bit:

== Goals - simpler UI - performance: faster switching within IME - more systematic layout handling

== IME layout/maps - keyboard layouts separate from maps and IMEs - xkb too much on the same level as IMEs - should use meta-data about ascii/latin compatible xkb layouts (like langtable provides) to limit choices of layouts for IMEs - input framework (or IMEs?) should provide UI for setting keyboard map per IME - support for custom layouts

== Switching - Generically layout switching only makes sense for certain specific cases: - either switching between different physical keyboards - or switching between keymaps compatible with a particular keyboard layout - maybe only define IME mode switching hotkey by default perhaps - use "Super+space" for mode switching with single source - for IMEs defaulting to Latin input, keyboard layout source is normally redundant - ibus switching uses XI2 and anthy mode switching uses gdk keybinding which also works in nested VM box - current keyboard source shows/decides what layout will be used by IME - maybe IME label should show the configured layout if there is ambiguity "kkc (JP)" vs "kkc (US)" say instead

== IME Latin - might be good if all IMEs providing non-Latin input also had a Latin mode (for Workstations) - will hangul IME support Latin mode? - need panel status icon to show IME input mode - mobile IMEs also tend to use mode switching - framework support for IME mode switching - each ibus engine can inherit IBusEngineSimple for Latin mode

== UI defaults - maybe default IME mode should depend on whether have keyboard input source or not - maybe only default IMEs to Latin for new users without keyboard source (migration hard to do) - preserve IME input mode state across sessions: http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1662 - gnome-shell - need discussion with Gnome people about the design and UI experience - indicator should expand IME mode submenu by default, and be placed above IME list - gnome-shell grabs Super-Space: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703779

#26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by pravins):

It will help to get more view on this topic from fedora-devel list.

#26: proposal: move to using IMEs for ASCII/Latin input ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

After more direct discussions we came to the conclusion that currently Latin mode (direct input) seems specific to Japanese IMEs alas. Going with that reduces the potential scope of this proposal somewhat, and might mean losing the display of IME input mode in the ibus applet.

= Revised Summary without Latin mode

== Goals - simpler UI - more systematic layout handling

== IME layout/maps - ? keyboard layouts should be lower level than maps and IMEs - currently xkb too much on the same level as IMEs - should use meta-data about ascii/latin compatible xkb layouts (like langtable provides) to limit choices of layouts for IMEs - input framework (or IMEs?) should provide UI for configuring keyboard map per IME - support for custom layouts

== Switching - generically layout switching only makes sense for certain specific cases: 1. switching between different physical keyboards 2. switching between keymaps compatible with a particular keyboard layout - ibus switching uses XI2 and anthy mode switching uses gdk keybinding which also works in nested VM

== IME modes - might be nice if libpinyin provided a direct input Latin mode - still seems attractive to default Japanese to use IME only and default to Latin mode - RFE: option to show IME input mode in applet - mobile IMEs also tend to use mode switching - framework support for IME modes and switching - ibus engines that don't provide Latin input can inherit IBusEngineSimple for Latin mode

== UI defaults - ? preserve IME input mode state across sessions: http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1662 - current keyboard source should not determine layout when switching into an IME - if there is ambiguity IME label could show the configured layout: eg "kkc (JP)" vs "kkc (US)" - gnome-shell - need discussion with Gnome people about the design and UI experience - indicator should expand IME mode submenu by default, and be placed above IME list - gnome-shell grabs Super-Space: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703779 - only show switcher when more than two input sources

#26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: i18n@… Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

We discussed some of this last week:

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora- meeting/2014-02-05/i18n.2014-02-05-06.01.log.html#l-82

- more metadata is needed on xkb maps - typing-booster could benefit from layout (keymap) switching rather than relying on libtranslit - perhaps it could be handled by IME - (Latin phonetic vs non-phonetic IME (input modes)) - eg zh IMEs (other than pinyin) often assume/specify US layout - further cleanup/filtering of xkb maps - system config of keyboard geometry, which could restrict list of available keymaps/layouts - detection of keyboard type by USB?

#26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: petersen Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

- classification of IMEs, keymaps/layouts and keyboard geometries - IMEs - Latin phonetic or not - should only list/use appropriate layouts - xkb - filter layouts by sufficient geometry - keyboard geometry should restrict available layouts - langtable already provides data on layouts with Latin support - more consistent handling for switching between xkb and IME Input Sources

- detection of keyboard type by USB

- gnome-shell issues - indicator should expand IME mode submenu by default, and be placed above IME list - gnome-shell grabs Super-Space: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703779 - only show switcher when more than two input sources

#26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: petersen Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

In [http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora- meeting/2014-03-05/i18n.2014-03-05-06.02.log.html#l-40 2014-03-05] i18n meeting we agreed to close this issue deferred (so we can re-visit the xkb layout classification later), after I file bugs in Fedora against IMEs to improve their input mode menus. Need to do some testing first in Rawhide to check on status quo.

#26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: petersen Type: meeting | Status: assigned Priority: major | Resolution: Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

2014-07-02 meeting

- Jens will open an upstream bug for allowing input modes to appear in toplevel menu rather than submenu. - Mike will change ibus-table 5 state toggle to menu - Jens filed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1115295 to improve Pinyin toggle menu UI if possible - Fujiwara pointed out http://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/win8menu/ screenshots - Fujiwara will discuss again with upstream about having input mode icon in non-gnome like for gnome but will be for post-F21.

#26: proposal: IM and xkb UI design improvements ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: petersen | Owner: petersen Type: meeting | Status: closed Priority: major | Resolution: fixed Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by petersen):

I filed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1116676 for the xkb geometry/layout "R&D" analysis RFE.