This question stems from a post on the CentOS mailing list -- a fellow wanted to add a couple items to the EPEL Wishlist but wasn't sure how.
I suggested he get a Wiki account and add it himself (probably should have just added it for him, but...). In any case, here's his rant:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2007-June/083203.html
I think I agree with him in spirit that getting a Wiki / FAS account set up is a bit of a daunting process.
I pointed him here:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2...
Which has links pointing to other lists of tasks to do -- it can get rather spaghetti like, especially when you don't understand why you're generating all these SSH keys and GPG keys, etc :)
My questions are as follows:
1. Is this the appropriate list to discuss this issue on? 2. Do you guys agree that the signup process is overly complex? Or does the process partially serve to ensure that the candidate is sufficiently motivated and persistent? :) 3. If so, can we discuss a way to simplify it?
Alternately...
4. Would maybe reorganizing the documentation for getting an account be the most helpful in the short-term?
Also, maybe just a blurb on the EPEL wish list describing an easier way to request package additions there would be helpful. Even if it's just "join the mailing list and ask" or "ask on IRC". This is like a question for epel-devel however.
I know one of your guys' overall goals has always been to get more community involvement, so I figured this was a worthwhile question to ask. I know I almost decided that it wasn't worth the effort to join the FP after seeing all those steps for signup when I just wanted to contribute one package initially (I'm happy I didn't bail btw)... I imagine many others feel the same way.
Ray
PS: I know I haven't proposed any solutions. Still trying to wrap my head around what those might be, but wanted to throw this out there.
Ray Van Dolson wrote:
This question stems from a post on the CentOS mailing list -- a fellow wanted to add a couple items to the EPEL Wishlist but wasn't sure how.
I suggested he get a Wiki account and add it himself (probably should have just added it for him, but...). In any case, here's his rant:
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2007-June/083203.html
I think I agree with him in spirit that getting a Wiki / FAS account set up is a bit of a daunting process.
I pointed him here:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2...
Which has links pointing to other lists of tasks to do -- it can get rather spaghetti like, especially when you don't understand why you're generating all these SSH keys and GPG keys, etc :)
FAS2 won't have this requirement for a generic account.
My questions are as follows:
- Is this the appropriate list to discuss this issue on?
absolutely.
- Do you guys agree that the signup process is overly complex? Or does the process partially serve to ensure that the candidate is sufficiently motivated and persistent? :)
It was a legal constraint
- If so, can we discuss a way to simplify it?
A simpler wiki setup is actually on its way. quaid, paulobanon: care to comment further?
-Mike
Mike McGrath wrote:
A simpler wiki setup is actually on its way. quaid, paulobanon: care to comment further?
They are waiting on infrastructure team to enable click through signup on the wiki. Karsten Wade (quaid) posted a request here with no response. That would be the best fix within the legal constraints for this (known) problem.
Rahul
On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 01:32:51AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Mike McGrath wrote:
A simpler wiki setup is actually on its way. quaid, paulobanon: care to comment further?
They are waiting on infrastructure team to enable click through signup on the wiki. Karsten Wade (quaid) posted a request here with no response. That would be the best fix within the legal constraints for this (known) problem.
Sounds good. No point then in discussing further until the new system is in place. Apologies for the noise and thanks for clarifying.
I'll take a look at the project's wiki page and see if I can assist... (devs holler if you need anything specific! I can test, program, document, whatever).
Ray
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Mike McGrath wrote:
A simpler wiki setup is actually on its way. quaid, paulobanon: care to comment further?
They are waiting on infrastructure team to enable click through signup on the wiki. Karsten Wade (quaid) posted a request here with no response. That would be the best fix within the legal constraints for this (known) problem.
paulobanon is the infrastructure team member working on it with quaid.
-Mike
And we did reply it, on IRC though :)
Quaid is aware of the situation, and it will be addressed with the new Moin version 1.6 Basically the CreateLogin and UserPreferences will be two different pages, and we will paste the CLA in the top of CreateLogin page, with something like "if you create a login in Fedoraproject wiki, you accept the CLA" and anyone that wants to create an account will just need to read it (or at least scroll down) and create the login.
This pretty much summarizes what Karsten wanted.
Paulo
On 6/28/07, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Mike McGrath wrote:
A simpler wiki setup is actually on its way. quaid, paulobanon: care to comment further?
They are waiting on infrastructure team to enable click through signup on the wiki. Karsten Wade (quaid) posted a request here with no response. That would be the best fix within the legal constraints for this (known) problem.
paulobanon is the infrastructure team member working on it with quaid.
-Mike
Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list
Paulo Santos wrote:
And we did reply it, on IRC though :)
That's better than getting no response but I would consider it more useful if the responses are given on the mailing list if the questions were asked in them. For one thing, the discussions are archived and I can read about asynchronously and refer other people to them easily.
There are more people interested in the progress on this besides Karsten Wade and I would appreciate knowing the status too. Thanks.
Rahul
Ray Van Dolson wrote:
Also, maybe just a blurb on the EPEL wish list describing an easier way to request package additions there would be helpful. Even if it's just "join the mailing list and ask" or "ask on IRC". This is like a question for epel-devel however.
Yep but fixed anyway. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList
I know one of your guys' overall goals has always been to get more community involvement, so I figured this was a worthwhile question to ask. I know I almost decided that it wasn't worth the effort to join the FP after seeing all those steps for signup when I just wanted to contribute one package initially (I'm happy I didn't bail btw)... I imagine many others feel the same way.
So why didn't you bail out and what are you happy with? Not rhetoric. I am genuinely interested to know.
Thanks for the feedback. We know that editing the wiki for someone not in the edit group is way too complicated than necessary. The underlying problem required legal clarification which we have got recently. The wiki contributors can just require a click through signup but that requires some infrastructure work that hasn't done yet but it is something that needs to be fixed asap.
Rahul
On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 01:49:55AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
So why didn't you bail out and what are you happy with? Not rhetoric. I am genuinely interested to know.
I started lurking on some of the #fedora channels and jumped on a bunch of the mailing lists. In the end, listening to a lot of the discussions finally concvinced me that I wanted to be part of the project, so I just went ahead and signed up and contributed my package.
I am trying to get my work to use RHEL/CentOS more and more, and so getting the packages in place in an "official" repo (EPEL) is somewhat important to that. In this case I had the power to make it happen myself and so it was worth signing up and I'm glad I did.
Thanks for the feedback. We know that editing the wiki for someone not in the edit group is way too complicated than necessary. The underlying problem required legal clarification which we have got recently. The wiki contributors can just require a click through signup but that requires some infrastructure work that hasn't done yet but it is something that needs to be fixed asap.
Appreciate all the work you guys do.
Ray
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Mike McGrath -
Paulo Santos -
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Ray Van Dolson