FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
Hi Mike!
On 08/30/2010 04:42 AM, Mike McGrath wrote:
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
I believe I'm still in this group. So feel free to remove me.
Best, Oliver
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
So i am curious how do you actually contribute with the Infrastructure team. Seems like a caveat here. The wiki page and this email seems to be in conflict please make it consistent across the board. I am new contributor to the Project. So i can give a perspective which is often not voiced. Also i read this link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor. However i was met with crickets meaning i got no reply. I understand this Team is one the more important in the Projects. I guess however im a new guy so what i say will be met with some critique. Also i like to give solutions if possible. How about mentoring some new contributors in the Infrastructure Team. So they are monitored what they do. They can learn but still they dont bork things. Just my 2 cents cause we all here to contribute in our little part to the Project. I have find my niche what i do for the Project and I am satisfied. I just speak for the next new contributor that sends a Intro email.
Tajidiin
"You want for your brother what you want for yourself" --Prophet Muhammad (SAW)
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Tajidin Abd wrote:
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote: FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructureSo i am curious how do you actually contribute with the Infrastructure team. Seems like a caveat here. The wiki page and this email seems to be in conflict please make it consistent across the board. I am new contributor to the Project. So i can give a perspective which is often not voiced. Also i read this link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor. However i was met with crickets meaning i got no reply. I understand this Team is one the more important in the Projects. I guess however im a new guy so what i say will be met with some critique. Also i like to give solutions if possible. How about mentoring some new contributors in the Infrastructure Team. So they are monitored what they do. They can learn but still they dont bork things. Just my 2 cents cause we all here to contribute in our little part to the Project. I have find my niche what i do for the Project and I am satisfied. I just speak for the next new contributor that sends a Intro email.
I just re-read the wiki and I don't see any conflicts, can you tell me the exact text you're concerned with. Also, you say you got no reply after reading a wiki link, I assume you contacted this list? I try hard to reply to everyone, sorry I missed your introduction. Couldy ou re-send it?
More generally, if you're looking to contribute to this team and haven't already, this is a good link:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted
-Mike
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:42 PM To: Infrastructure Subject: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
Mike,
Does this dovetail with the "promotion paths" we talked about for some of the more critical groups? Getting invited in, being mentored for a while and then a combination of the mentee wanting to move up and the mentor sponsoring them for a group like -main or -dba.
So a new user has to show some interest and initiative in the list and IRC to get an invite to the main group. And the same to move up to some of the higher responsibility groups. It makes sense to judge skill and availability, IMHO.
Course, we run the risk of sounding like Masons ... "The Supreme Council of the Infrastructures General of the Project Fedora of the Twenty-second degree of the Ancient and Accepted Linux Distributions" ;)
-Matt
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:42 PM To: Infrastructure Subject: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
FYI everyone, I've now changed all the sysadmin groups to be invite only. Lots of users would apply and kind of just sit there for months, and that's not good. So by invite only, one of us has to add users to the groups and sponsor them at that time.
-Mike
Mike,
Does this dovetail with the "promotion paths" we talked about for some of the more critical groups? Getting invited in, being mentored for a while and then a combination of the mentee wanting to move up and the mentor sponsoring them for a group like -main or -dba.
So a new user has to show some interest and initiative in the list and IRC to get an invite to the main group. And the same to move up to some of the higher responsibility groups. It makes sense to judge skill and availability, IMHO.
Course, we run the risk of sounding like Masons ... "The Supreme Council of the Infrastructures General of the Project Fedora of the Twenty-second degree of the Ancient and Accepted Linux Distributions" ;)
It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way to go. No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked with in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know the group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to sponsor them.
I think the application -> then sponsor method would be idea but it doesn't work in practice.
-Mike
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:12 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way
to
go. No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked with in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know the group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to sponsor them.
I think that's a key point to get across and may be some of the concern Tajidiin may have had. How do you contribute and gain that exposure without being part of the sysadmin group in the first place? Starting discussions about bugs on the list / in the IRC channel? Responding to list / IRC questions on tools? Offering to help document the skills and experience for each FIG ;)? How do we get that message out and what sorts of activities are appropriate / expected?
-Matt
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:12 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
It's certainly like that for -main or -dba. But even for the easier groups to get into, application for those groups isn't the right way
to
go. No one's going to sponsor someone they don't know and haven't worked with in infrastructure. This just further forces a new user to get to know the group, look at the tickets, etc while making sure new users don't just apply and think they're now in the team, or then wait for someone to sponsor them.
I think that's a key point to get across and may be some of the concern Tajidiin may have had. How do you contribute and gain that exposure without being part of the sysadmin group in the first place? Starting discussions about bugs on the list / in the IRC channel? Responding to list / IRC questions on tools? Offering to help document the skills and experience for each FIG ;)? How do we get that message out and what sorts of activities are appropriate / expected?
We link to the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor document on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use. I still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things" instead of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in place are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-Mike
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
We link to the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor document on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use. I still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things" instead of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in place are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-Mike
Good points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done, and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
-Matt
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
We link to the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor document on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use. I still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things" instead of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in place are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-Mike
Good points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done, and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
You're still not looking at it the right way. The way you've worded it it sounds like you're end goal is to be in a sysadmin-* group. You're end goal should be finding some work to do then finding someone willing to sponsor you to do that work.
-Mike
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Matt Micene wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:34 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: RE: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
We link to the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor document on the getting started page that mentions some techniques you can use. I still have a lot of people come in looking for "access to things" instead of work to do which is kind of backwards. But the docs we have in place are relatively new so we'll see how it goes.
-MikeGood points. I've done my intro, looked at work that needs to be done, and volunteered services. So, since I am ungrouped and unsponsored, is my next step still soliciting for an invite on the list / IRC?
You're still not looking at it the right way. The way you've worded it it sounds like you're end goal is to be in a sysadmin-* group. You're end goal should be finding some work to do then finding someone willing to sponsor you to do that work.
-Mike
infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
I dont want it to seem like im a troll, cause i know the Infrastructure is busy as heck you have lot of things to worry about. Just make it more clear for the new contributor that comes along. Yes i know myself i came in thinking i can do it all. then i figured out its best to work slowly then build up. Thats why since you will make it inivite only, for sure there need to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with him. For example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content, for the Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say you have to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Tajidin
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Tajidin Abd tajidinabd@archlinux.us wrote:
I dont want it to seem like im a troll, cause i know the Infrastructure is busy as heck you have lot of things to worry about. Just make it more clear
I sure don't think you're a troll, fwiw :)
for the new contributor that comes along. Yes i know myself i came in thinking i can do it all. then i figured out its best to work slowly then build up. Thats why since you will make it inivite only, for sure there need
The invite-only part is just a new construct in FAS. We'd have people applying for various groups that were not appropriate - 'accounts' comes to mind here, since I get all the spam of people applying for it, I'm sure there are many others. You have always required sponsorship/mentorship to work in Infrastructure - all that this change is doing is saying that you cannot apply to the group *in FAS* in order to relieve the overhead on the sponsors.
to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with him. For example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content, for the Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say you have to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task, there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually "move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
Does that make it more clear?
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Jon Stanley Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:19 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: Re: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with
him. For
example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content,
for
the
Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say
you
have
to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task, there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually "move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
Does that make it more clear?
That plus Mike's earlier feedback definitely set me straight. I had come in (even after reading the docs) thinking that it was 'look around, find where you'd like to work, get to know those people, ask to work with them, pick up tasks, Profit!!!'. Mike's got me started in the right order despite that misunderstanding. :)
In retrospect, it makes sense. OSS projects I've worked on before I got started with b/c of a fix to a script or something that I brought to a list. I asked questions, did the work, and then presented it up for review.
-Matt
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Matt Micene matt.micene@dlt.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:infrastructure-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf Of Jon Stanley Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:19 AM To: Fedora Infrastructure Subject: Re: Change with FAS sysadmin-* accounts
to be a mentor along with this new contributor to work closely with
him. For
example doing some small tasks like documentation, wiki, content,
for
the
Infrastructure team that is some menial basic things. As they say
you
have
to learn how to follow before you can lead.
Whenever I sponsor someone into Infrastructure groups, it's with a clear task/project in mind. Once you've accomplished that task, there's limitless other tasks to be accomplished, and you gradually "move up the ranks". so to speak, in terms of responsibility.
Does that make it more clear?
That plus Mike's earlier feedback definitely set me straight. I had come in (even after reading the docs) thinking that it was 'look around, find where you'd like to work, get to know those people, ask to work with them, pick up tasks, Profit!!!'. Mike's got me started in the right order despite that misunderstanding. :)
In retrospect, it makes sense. OSS projects I've worked on before I got started with b/c of a fix to a script or something that I brought to a list. I asked questions, did the work, and then presented it up for review.
-Matt _______________________________________________ infrastructure mailing list infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
yea clears it up fine for me now thanks alot keep up the good work what you fellas do
tajidin
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Jon Stanley -
Matt Micene -
Mike McGrath -
Oliver Falk -
Tajidin Abd