On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 11:25 AM David Cantrell dcantrell@redhat.com wrote:
The installer team rejecting btrfs patches is going to be based on their resources to support the functionality. I would say "btrfs in Fedora" needs a FESCo decision to set expectations and policy for the project. Is it something that Fedora wants to offer and if so, what does that look like?
FESCo already voted 8 years ago to make Btrfs the default file system, and then allowed that to wither and become moot rather than revert the decision. Then later when the editions were created, part of Fedora.next, the decision of default file systems was handed to the working groups to decide. And the Fedora kernel team has also said this is a working group decision.
The Fedora working group's technical specification states Btrfs is to be the default. Yet the working group has said it's uncomfortable taking action on this decision expressly because the Federal kernel team's official recommendation is to not recommend Btrfs. And I agree. I trust the Fedora kernel team as they've clearly stated limited resources and interest in Btrfs, the expectations and parameters for properly supporting Btrfs either as bug blocker worthy, and as a default file system from a user advocacy point of view.
If it's a best effort thing, then that makes it easier for projects and contributors. Going back to Adam's original list, I would suggest a FESCo decision like this should require explicit opt-in by the user to enable btrfs functionality in the application in question. For example, in the installer that could be enabled via a boot parameter (we did this initially when btrfs functionality was first enabled in anaconda).
That can only be considered to be a remarkable regression, not just in the context of Fedora, but in the context of the top 10 linux distributions all of which have visible Btrfs support in their GUI installers. Fedora's installer being the first to make Btrfs invisible by default would be a remarkable first indeed.
I'm not advocating one way or another for btrfs. But it seems we as a project need a larger decision and policy around btrfs in general so we can set expectations for users and developers.
That decision and policy has already been made. Do you want it reverted?
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 12:00 PM Chris Murphy lists@colorremedies.com wrote:
The Fedora working group's technical specification states Btrfs is to be the default. Yet the working group has said it's uncomfortable taking action on this decision expressly because the Federal kernel team's official recommendation is to not recommend Btrfs. And I agree.
Points of clarity:
- it is the Workstation working group's technical spec that says this (the Server working group decided on XFS)
- I agree with Workstation working group's reticence to actually deploy Btrfs as the default file system, while the Fedora kernel team recommends against Btrfs as the default. And I would like someone on the Fedora kernel team who will recommend and support it.
References:
FESCo, make Btrfs the default https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-06-08/fesco.2011-06-08...
Workstation working group's technical specification, make btrfs default https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Technical_Specification
A point of reference that when LVM thinp was made release blocking, it was stated that usability issues are to be treated as bugs to be worked out https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-07-24/fesco.2013-07-24...
File system choice is up to the working group https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/...
--- Chris Murphy
kernel@lists.fedoraproject.org