Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Hans de Goede hdegoede@redhat.com wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
None from me and easy enough to revert if it proves a problem, is there a way to change the default at run time?
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
Thanks, Laura
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
Regards,
Hans
Hi,
On 03-11-17 09:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
I see that Justin has already taken care of this while updating to Linux v4.14-rc7-47-g3a99df9a3d14, thank you Justin.
Regards,
Hans
----- Original Message -----
Hi,
On 03-11-17 09:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
I see that Justin has already taken care of this while updating to Linux v4.14-rc7-47-g3a99df9a3d14, thank you Justin.
Is this what's responsible for loud pops when I stop playing music for a couple of seconds, or restart after not using it?
I use headphones in a multi-use audio jack port[1] on a Dell desktop machine. And they pop quite loudly every time I start playing audio again after a little while, or when I stop/pause for more than a couple of seconds.
[1]: http://www.hadess.net/2016/08/blog-backlog-post-4-headset-fixes-for.html
Hi,
On 27-11-17 12:13, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
Hi,
On 03-11-17 09:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
I see that Justin has already taken care of this while updating to Linux v4.14-rc7-47-g3a99df9a3d14, thank you Justin.
Is this what's responsible for loud pops when I stop playing music for a couple of seconds, or restart after not using it?
I use headphones in a multi-use audio jack port[1] on a Dell desktop machine. And they pop quite loudly every time I start playing audio again after a little while, or when I stop/pause for more than a couple of seconds.
Copy and pasting my reply to your status report about this:
Hi,
On 27-11-17 12:13, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
Hi,
On 03-11-17 09:59, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
On 11/01/2017 11:09 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi All,
I'm working on trying to improve the OOTB power-consumption of Fedora Workstation on laptops.
One of the easy wins here is setting snd_hda_intel.power_save=1, which saves about 0.4W which given that modern laptops idle at around 6-8W is a significant saving.
I've asked the upstream kernel devs if there are any downsides to setting SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=1 and I got a reply that this should be fine and that OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is already doing this.
So unless there are any objections I would like to change this option to 1 starting with 4.14 kernel. Is that ok ?
Regards,
Hans
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
I see that Justin has already taken care of this while updating to Linux v4.14-rc7-47-g3a99df9a3d14, thank you Justin.
Is this what's responsible for loud pops when I stop playing music for a couple of seconds, or restart after not using it?
I use headphones in a multi-use audio jack port[1] on a Dell desktop machine. And they pop quite loudly every time I start playing audio again after a little while, or when I stop/pause for more than a couple of seconds.
Copy and pasting my reply to your status report about this:
Are you running a rawhide kernel, then yes this might be the cause.
When I asked upstream if it would be save to enable hda codec powersaving by default, they mentioned that there are some (according to them rare) devices which suffer from this, to test pass: "snd_hda_intel.power_save=0" on the kernel cmdline, if that fixes it then you've a model affected by this. I think we need a udev/hwdb based blacklist for this.
Regards,
Hans
Lo! On 29.11.2017 14:22, Hans de Goede wrote:
On 27-11-17 12:13, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Is this what's responsible for loud pops when I stop playing music for a couple of seconds, or restart after not using it?
I use headphones in a multi-use audio jack port[1] on a Dell desktop machine. And they pop quite loudly every time I start playing audio again after a little while, or when I stop/pause for more than a couple of seconds.
[…] Are you running a rawhide kernel, then yes this might be the cause.
When I asked upstream if it would be save to enable hda codec powersaving by default, they mentioned that there are some (according to them rare) devices which suffer from this, to test pass: "snd_hda_intel.power_save=0" on the kernel cmdline, if that fixes it then you've a model affected by this. I think we need a udev/hwdb based blacklist for this.
FWIW: My Dell XPS 13 (9360) is also affected (and I saw a few other notebooks where this happens, too). But it only happens on Linux on my machine. I wonder if the proper solution would be to investigate what Windows does differently to prevent those pop sounds (yes, HDA power saving seems on in Windows). Does Windows maybe mute the all outputs before making the codec sleep to prevent this? Or something else?
Just my 2 cent, which I'm sharing here because getting the root cause solved might be hard, but in the end might be less work and less hassle than creating and maintaining a blacklist...
Side note, TWIMC: I also hear some static noise with Linux until I run "amixer -c PCH cset 'name=Headphone Mic Boost Volume' 1" (see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13_(9360)#Continuous_hissing_s... for details), which makes it nearly unnoticeable. That's also not happening in Windows. I had Dell looking into both these issues, but haven't heard anything from them in a while :-/
CU, knurd
On 11/03/2017 04:59 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
We ended up putting this in the 4.14 rebase and there were a few issues reported[0][1] on i686 and x86_64 so I've set it back to 0 on all arches in F27 and F26. Hans, do you want to leave in on in Rawhide and see if we can come up with some fixes or should I switch it to 0 there as well?
[0] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525561 [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1525104
Thanks, Jeremy
Hi,
On 13-12-17 21:09, Jeremy Cline wrote:
On 11/03/2017 04:59 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 01-11-17 20:34, Laura Abbott wrote:
I'm always a bit uneasy about enabling hardware power saving since it rarely seems to be done correctly but as Peter pointed out it's easy to revert if something goes wrong. Having the endorsement of upstream is also good since it means they should be responsive.
Enabling for 4.14 sounds like a good plan. Did you intend for this to end up in stable releases on rebase?
That was my original intention yes. But now that you explicitly ask I guess that we may want to hold off on that and just make the change for rawhide / F28. I will try to get the change committed to the master branch today (otherwise I will do it Monday). I will leave it up to you if you also make the change to the stable releases on rebase.
We ended up putting this in the 4.14 rebase and there were a few issues reported[0][1] on i686 and x86_64 so I've set it back to 0 on all arches in F27 and F26. Hans, do you want to leave in on in Rawhide and see if we can come up with some fixes or should I switch it to 0 there as well?
I would like to keep this as is for F28/rawhide, assuming that you've made the change to only enable this on x86_64 there. IOW I think we should fix:
By disabling the power_saving / setting the option to 0 on i686, those machines are so old that I don't want to spend too much effort there, also the reported symptoms
And look further into fixing this for x86_64 for F28+. I've just send a mail about fixing this to the alsa-devs, and I've put you (Jeremy) in the Cc.
Regards,
Hans
On 12/15/2017 07:44 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:> I would like to keep this as is for F28/rawhide, assuming that you've
made the change to only enable this on x86_64 there. IOW I think we should fix:
By disabling the power_saving / setting the option to 0 on i686, those machines are so old that I don't want to spend too much effort there, also the reported symptoms
Yep, I took care of that. Right now it's only enabled for x86_64.
And look further into fixing this for x86_64 for F28+. I've just send a mail about fixing this to the alsa-devs, and I've put you (Jeremy) in the Cc.
Great, thank you!
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