On 03/11/2013 10:50 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 08:30:02PM +0000, "J??hann B. Gu??mundsson" wrote:

...

On 03/11/2013 08:24 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

...

This is just a heads up that I will probably not be available this week for the FPC meeting. If someone else wants to run it, please do. the only two commands you absolutely need to know are:

#startmeeting fpc

#endmeeting

If you need me to vote after the meeting on certain tickets, just let me know.

Next week I hope to be present for the meeting but I can't promise I will. I'm at the PyCon conference both weeks but next week is the hackfest portion so it will depends on internet connectivity more than scheduling.

The Haskell Guidelines are one thing that needs to be looked over and voted upon: https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/194

The filtering guidelines need one vote to pass (or five negative votes to fail): https://fedorahosted.org/fpc/ticket/189

I think that all other tickets that we were voting on in trac are done.

Lots of "new" tickets if you get past those two.

Throw your vote on having packages shipping cron job depend on crontab as got discussed last meeting.

I was waiting for the draft to show up.

You mean the one that you guys somehow assumed I had more free time that you did ( I dont get paid to work on Fedora which means I spending what ever free time I have to work on various bits in the project ) and somehow expected me to write one because not everybody could attend and or vote on that meeting upon when it was discussed, You know the guy with poor English skills ( which means it would have to be rewritten by the fpc anyway ) and is not even packager as I mentioned on that meeting. + I have already tried that once before and that did not work out so well.

In this case it's best that FPC spends it's free time settles on it. I have already been waiting for close to a 2 weeks for a single Require line ( what ever it may turn out to be even thou it seemed to be settled upon on that meeting that was crontab ) so I can start working on those components after all you guys are the packaging committee and when you signed up for the job you must have assumed that your time would be spend on proposal and other related work that falls under FPC not just expected to be handed drafts and ack upon them?

The bottom line is as got discussed on that meeting and seemed to be the best chose is to have every package that ships cron job to depend on crontab as cronie does. The rest who did not cast vote on that meeting can cast vote upon that and I can start working on those components ( or not and we have to find some other way ) and whomever has enough free time is can come up with a draft surrounding that.

JBG

On 03/12/2013 01:05 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

Well then, the next time I get some free time I'll go ahead and look at the issue and write up a draft. Seeing as how I just got enough free time to write up a filtering draft which was first requested in April 2011, you may have a multi-year wait. At the very least, it'll have to wait until after PyCon, (~2 weeks) and after the .desktop file cleanup (Still ~200 packages) and after the fedora infra discussion on oauth and I'll probably need to help with a new FAS, a new python-fedora, and a new pkgdb release by then.

You can start by voting on the issue as you could have done at the meeting like the rest of them, then atleast I dont have to wait multi-year so I can start scratching my itch and start fixing one of many components that seem to somehow *expect* things to be there in the BaseOS in foreseeable future and the draft can be written anytime when someone has the free time to do it as I had mentioned.

Atleast then the broken implementation of package containing cron jobs in the distribution can be fixed by a person willing to go through all that and fix it.

For the most part, the other FPC members do want to receive drafts. Many years ago we realized that the FPC members' time did not scale well. So we started encouraging people to submit drafts so that we could spend our time examining and editing those drafts that are submitted rather than having to start from scratch learning the ins and outs of a problem, determining where in the guidelines a change would need to be made and which of the ins and outs of the problem would need to be mentioned in that change.

Ah I see what the problem is here and I suggest FPC should be change from a "committee" to a "community" you could learn a thing or two from us in QA in that regard.

Some of us still write drafts when there's a particular problem that we feel affects more people or is more important to the distribution or simply scratches an itch that we have. But doing so does take time that we maybe should have been spending on something else.

I honestly dont care in what you want to spend your time it's yours to spend but when I work on things I want to do them properly even if that means that I have to spend extra time fixing things that are not directly related to the work I'm doing but indirectly are affected or it simply makes sense to do that work/cleanup at the same time.

We have too many poorly and half implemented things in the distribution and for no logical reason continue to ship obsoleted stuff like the legacy sysv initscript after they have been migrated and I simply choose not to be one of those guys or girls that is the cause of that, essentially an distribution litterer...

So as with everything in Fedora, if you have an itch, doing the work will get it done faster than relying on someone else who is at least as busy as you. If you're lucky, other people will have the same itch and will help you do it.

I probably know that fact far more then many here in the distribution.

JBG