Hello,
We are evaluating RHQ 4.0 now. We are focusing to a side of RHQ as an operation tool, not a monitoring tool.
From this point of view, RHQ seems to have points to be improved in the
usability as follows:
- We can't see a result of immediately executed operation directly
RHQ displays a list of scheduled jobs after we click "Schedule" button. Even if we execute a job immediately, we have to look for a result from list of results when we want to see the result. We think it would be nicer if RHQ displays an operation result directly when the job was executed immediately.
- It needs very complicated procedure to see results of operation for grouped resources
RHQ displays resource list as a result of operation for grouped resources and then we have to choose one of them to see a actual result of each resource. We think it would be nicer if results of operation for grouped resources are displayed at a same place so that we can see these all results at a time.
Is there any plan to improve usability of operation results in the future version of RHQ?
Regards,
On 07/05/2011 10:54 PM, Naoki Takezoe wrote:
Hello,
We are evaluating RHQ 4.0 now. We are focusing to a side of RHQ as an operation tool, not a monitoring tool.
From this point of view, RHQ seems to have points to be improved in the
usability as follows:
We can't see a result of immediately executed operation directly
RHQ displays a list of scheduled jobs after we click "Schedule" button. Even if we execute a job immediately, we have to look for a result from list of results when we want to see the result. We think it would be nicer if RHQ displays an operation result directly when the job was executed immediately.
This is a good suggestion. The RHQ server API for invoking an operation is asynchronous, even for immediately executed operations, so the operation results page would have to poll the server (perhaps every 5 or 10 seconds) to check if the operation has completed. Once it knows the operation has completed, it could ask the server for the results and display them. During the polling, it could display some sort of "waiting" icon and a message stating that is is waiting for the operation to complete.
I've filed an enhancement request for this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=719329
It needs very complicated procedure to see results of operation for grouped resources
RHQ displays resource list as a result of operation for grouped resources and then we have to choose one of them to see a actual result of each resource. We think it would be nicer if results of operation for grouped resources are displayed at a same place so that we can see these all results at a time.
Another good suggestion. Operation results are stored in an RHQ Configuration object, and we already have a GUI component that can display a side by side view of multiple RHQ Configurations, which we could leverage. However, there would be some additional work to indicate the lack of results for any members of the group whose operations have either not yet completed or failed. Also, I don't think it would be practical to display side-by-side results for a operation invoked on a group with 300 members or for an operation that returns a results containing a list of maps; for such cases, we could probably just disable the aggregate results and display a note to the user explaining why.
I've filed an enhancement request for this as well: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=719333
Is there any plan to improve usability of operation results in the future version of RHQ?
We're always looking to improve usability. However, I'm not sure when we'll get to these. It depends on how they get prioritized compared to the other bugs, enhancement requests, and new features that are in BZ.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Regards, Ian
Regards,
2011/7/6 Ian Springer ian.springer@redhat.com:
- We can't see a result of immediately executed operation directly
RHQ displays a list of scheduled jobs after we click "Schedule" button. Even if we execute a job immediately, we have to look for a result from list of results when we want to see the result. We think it would be nicer if RHQ displays an operation result directly when the job was executed immediately.
This is a good suggestion. The RHQ server API for invoking an operation is asynchronous, even for immediately executed operations, so the operation results page would have to poll the server (perhaps every 5 or 10 seconds) to check if the operation has completed. Once it knows the operation has completed, it could ask the server for the results and display them. During the polling, it could display some sort of "waiting" icon and a message stating that is is waiting for the operation to complete.
I've filed an enhancement request for this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=719329
Thanks, It seems our expected behavior. As John said, it might be a problem in long-running operation.
- It needs very complicated procedure to see results of operation for
grouped resources
RHQ displays resource list as a result of operation for grouped resources and then we have to choose one of them to see a actual result of each resource. We think it would be nicer if results of operation for grouped resources are displayed at a same place so that we can see these all results at a time.
Another good suggestion. Operation results are stored in an RHQ Configuration object, and we already have a GUI component that can display a side by side view of multiple RHQ Configurations, which we could leverage. However, there would be some additional work to indicate the lack of results for any members of the group whose operations have either not yet completed or failed. Also, I don't think it would be practical to display side-by-side results for a operation invoked on a group with 300 members or for an operation that returns a results containing a list of maps; for such cases, we could probably just disable the aggregate results and display a note to the user explaining why.
I've filed an enhancement request for this as well: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=719333
I understand there are problem when there are so many managed resources.
We will think about problems in these requests again. Then we will add comment to Bugzilla if we got more concrete idea to solve these problems.
Is there any plan to improve usability of operation results in the future version of RHQ?
We're always looking to improve usability. However, I'm not sure when we'll get to these. It depends on how they get prioritized compared to the other bugs, enhancement requests, and new features that are in BZ.
No problem. We understand it should give high priority to bug fix or other important enhancement.
Thanks for your detailed answer!
Regards,
We can't see a result of immediately executed operation directly
RHQ displays a list of scheduled jobs after we click "Schedule" button. Even if we execute a job immediately, we have to look for a result from list of results when we want to see the result. We think it would be nicer if RHQ displays an operation result directly when the job was executed immediately.
The issue here is you aren't guaranteed to get the results immediately. They aren't executed synchronously.
When you click the "execute operation immediately", it isn't as though the GUI synchronously sends the message to server which then synchronously sends to the agent(s) and the results are returned in-band to that request. The request and responses are disjointed and asynchronous.
What happens is the operation result is queued up on the server in the scheduler - the GUI gets the results of that scheduling of the operation, NOT the results. The results aren't available yet and you aren't guaranteed to get those results back in a timely manner. The scheduler on the server picks off the operation request and pushes it to the agent(s). The agent will then queue up the operation to run. As soon as the agent can, it will invoke the operation and then push the results to the server as soon as they are available.
This all happens asynchronously.
The end result is the GUI request will return prior to any results coming back (because we can't assume operation results will come back fast - it is possible operations could take many seconds, even many minutes, before they will complete (like when starting up things, or shutting down things - thus the GUI cannot assume a timely response and this could make the GUI request appear to "hang").
The agent tells the server when they are done. When the operations are done, the results are asynchronously sent to the server and only at that time will the results appear in the history tab of the GUI.
It needs very complicated procedure to see results of operation for grouped resources
RHQ displays resource list as a result of operation for grouped resources and then we have to choose one of them to see a actual result of each resource. We think it would be nicer if results of operation for grouped resources are displayed at a same place so that we can see these all results at a time.
This is going to be difficult. First, realize that RHQ can support (and is a use-case people want us to support) operations invoked on a group of tens of resources in a group (even up to, say, 100). So, how do you show operation results for this large amounts of resources on a single page.
That said, I do think it is a good idea to see if we could do something similar to our "Configuration Diff Viewer" where we show configurations side-by-side when comparing the differences between multiple configuration settings (you can see this GUI page by going to, say, a Resource Configuration tab, in the current configuration subtab, select multiple configurations, and click "Compare").
(note: operation results and parameters are stored as configuration objects, thus its possible to re-use this "diff viewer" to show multiple operation results).
The problem here is that that "config diff viewer" doesn't support comparing "list of maps". And the reason why it doesn't is because we don't know how to properly display a set/diff of list-of-maps that is actually usable and understandable to an RHQ user. And operations can return list-of-maps, so this problem is a real problem if you want this for viewing operations.
Is there any plan to improve usability of operation results in the future version of RHQ?
There is nothing planned. If you have some ideas how this can be improved, write up your ideas and submit an enhancement request to bugzilla. We'd probably need to see some ideas drawn up, perhaps in some prototype screenshots or drawings, as to how you think the GUI could be displayed to show these things, with the information I provided above as background.
2011/7/6 John Mazzitelli mazz@redhat.com:
- We can't see a result of immediately executed operation directly
RHQ displays a list of scheduled jobs after we click "Schedule" button. Even if we execute a job immediately, we have to look for a result from list of results when we want to see the result. We think it would be nicer if RHQ displays an operation result directly when the job was executed immediately.
The issue here is you aren't guaranteed to get the results immediately. They aren't executed synchronously.
When you click the "execute operation immediately", it isn't as though the GUI synchronously sends the message to server which then synchronously sends to the agent(s) and the results are returned in-band to that request. The request and responses are disjointed and asynchronous.
What happens is the operation result is queued up on the server in the scheduler - the GUI gets the results of that scheduling of the operation, NOT the results. The results aren't available yet and you aren't guaranteed to get those results back in a timely manner. The scheduler on the server picks off the operation request and pushes it to the agent(s). The agent will then queue up the operation to run. As soon as the agent can, it will invoke the operation and then push the results to the server as soon as they are available.
This all happens asynchronously.
The end result is the GUI request will return prior to any results coming back (because we can't assume operation results will come back fast - it is possible operations could take many seconds, even many minutes, before they will complete (like when starting up things, or shutting down things - thus the GUI cannot assume a timely response and this could make the GUI request appear to "hang").
The agent tells the server when they are done. When the operations are done, the results are asynchronously sent to the server and only at that time will the results appear in the history tab of the GUI.
Thanks, I know operations are executed asynchronously and understood it might be a problem in long-running operation.
- It needs very complicated procedure to see results of operation for
grouped resources
RHQ displays resource list as a result of operation for grouped resources and then we have to choose one of them to see a actual result of each resource. We think it would be nicer if results of operation for grouped resources are displayed at a same place so that we can see these all results at a time.
This is going to be difficult. First, realize that RHQ can support (and is a use-case people want us to support) operations invoked on a group of tens of resources in a group (even up to, say, 100). So, how do you show operation results for this large amounts of resources on a single page.
That said, I do think it is a good idea to see if we could do something similar to our "Configuration Diff Viewer" where we show configurations side-by-side when comparing the differences between multiple configuration settings (you can see this GUI page by going to, say, a Resource Configuration tab, in the current configuration subtab, select multiple configurations, and click "Compare").
(note: operation results and parameters are stored as configuration objects, thus its possible to re-use this "diff viewer" to show multiple operation results).
The problem here is that that "config diff viewer" doesn't support comparing "list of maps". And the reason why it doesn't is because we don't know how to properly display a set/diff of list-of-maps that is actually usable and understandable to an RHQ user. And operations can return list-of-maps, so this problem is a real problem if you want this for viewing operations.
As you say, if there are so many managed resources, it might be difficult to see these results in a single view.
Is there any plan to improve usability of operation results in the future version of RHQ?
There is nothing planned. If you have some ideas how this can be improved, write up your ideas and submit an enhancement request to bugzilla. We'd probably need to see some ideas drawn up, perhaps in some prototype screenshots or drawings, as to how you think the GUI could be displayed to show these things, with the information I provided above as background.
Thanks for your advice. We think more about our requests. Then we'll add comment to Bugzilla tickets which caused by Ian.
Regards,
rhq-users@lists.stg.fedorahosted.org
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Ian Springer -
John Mazzitelli -
Naoki Takezoe