Hello,
Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange documents ?
Thank.
=========================================================================== Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdupre@gmx.com Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | | Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | | Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France ===========================================================================
Hi
You might try retro share: it uses peer 2 peer instead of server based connection
regards Bogdan
On 17 Mar 2018, at 22:52, Patrick Dupre pdupre@gmx.com wrote:
Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange documents ?
I don't know about documents exchange, but you could give a look to - Jitsi web - talky.io - zoom.us
gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and the drive would allow shared files. Google voice is a free service which does video as well I believe.
-- Fred
On Sat, 2018-03-17 at 22:48 -0400, fred roller wrote:
gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and the drive would allow shared files. Google voice is a free service which does video as well I believe.
Google Voice only exists in the US.
Google Hangouts is an alternative available everywhere. It also allows multi-part video-conferencing, which I think Skype only has in the business version (at least it used to be that way). And Google, never happy with only one offering, also has Allo and Duo.
There's also WhatsApp (one-to-one video only AFAIK), and I think Facebook.
All of these are closed-source of course, but so is Skype.
poc
On 03/18/2018 02:59 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2018-03-17 at 22:48 -0400, fred roller wrote:
gmail has video connect (both might need an account but so does skype) and the drive would allow shared files. Google voice is a free service which does video as well I believe.
Google Voice only exists in the US.
Google Hangouts is an alternative available everywhere. It also allows multi-part video-conferencing, which I think Skype only has in the business version (at least it used to be that way). And Google, never happy with only one offering, also has Allo and Duo.
There's also WhatsApp (one-to-one video only AFAIK), and I think Facebook.
All of these are closed-source of course, but so is Skype.
poc
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
-- Fred
On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
-- Fred
I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call. What is a non-account call????
you have g-voice they do not. similar to skype acct to acct or acct to other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text and send to my phone. I do know that you can call any phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD jd1008@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
-- Fred
I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call.
What is a non-account call????
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:
you have g-voice they do not. similar to skype acct to acct or acct to other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text and send to my phone. I do know that you can call any phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD <jd1008@gmail.com mailto:jd1008@gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote: > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling? AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call. -- Fred I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call. What is a non-account call????
well, that's just like skype. I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers, vs. phone numbers associated with a google account. Are the rates published online?
On 03/19/18 04:20, JD wrote:
On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:
you have g-voice they do not. similar to skype acct to acct or acct to other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text and send to my phone. I do know that you can call any phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD <jd1008@gmail.com mailto:jd1008@gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
> Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling? AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
-- Fred
I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call. What is a non-account call????
well, that's just like skype. I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers, vs. phone numbers associated with a google account. Are the rates published online?
http://bit.ly/2FQletP%C2%A0%C2%A0 ?
On 03/18/2018 02:34 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 03/19/18 04:20, JD wrote:
On 03/18/2018 11:46 AM, fred roller wrote:
you have g-voice they do not. similar to skype acct to acct or acct to other. I use g-voice for a voice mailbox because of its ability to transcribe to text and send to my phone. I do know that you can call any phone number but usually by charging the account w/ $$.
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM, JD <jd1008@gmail.com mailto:jd1008@gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/18/2018 10:32 AM, fred roller wrote: > Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling? AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call. -- Fred I don't understand the last part: your account to a non-account call. What is a non-account call????well, that's just like skype. I do not know googl'es per minute charges to non-account phone numbers, vs. phone numbers associated with a google account. Are the rates published online?
Great and reasonable rate charges.
I still use Skype since my contact come from various type of OS on they machine. So I keep using skype protocol but using pidgin (skype4pidgin), it very lightweight compare to official skype software.
Check the project here : https://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgin ,Fedora has this package , so just install from our repository
$ sudo dnf install purple-skypeweb pidgin-skypeweb
Sending document seem have some issues, but I don't care much. I can send via web when needed. If you still care and want self hosted, take a look on Jitsi project.
Last not least, riot.im and tox.chat also good platform to try
On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
I've been using Google Voice for years. From the US all US and Canada calls are free. Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per minute. Even DPRK is only 55¢.
Mike Wright
On Sun, 2018-03-18 at 11:03 -0700, Mike Wright wrote:
On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
I've been using Google Voice for years. From the US all US and Canada calls are free. Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per minute. Even DPRK is only 55¢.
That's fine, but as I said earlier, only available to users in the US. Google Voice had been around for quite some time now and has never expanded its service beyond the US (not just calling but unified phone numbers etc.), all of which I would have been interested in at one time.
poc
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
It worked for me in Japan, Panama, Philippines, Mexico, Peru
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 3:49 PM Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2018-03-18 at 11:03 -0700, Mike Wright wrote:
On 03/18/2018 09:32 AM, fred roller wrote:
Does Google Hangouts allow international free phone number calling?
AFAIK it is just a private chat set up by email identifier so no phone. In essence then yes. The Google Voice option, if you can get it will do what I suspect you want; your account to a non-account call.
I've been using Google Voice for years. From the US all US and Canada calls are free. Other countries start at 1¢ (e.g. MX, BR, AU, FR) per minute. Even DPRK is only 55¢.
That's fine, but as I said earlier, only available to users in the US. Google Voice had been around for quite some time now and has never expanded its service beyond the US (not just calling but unified phone numbers etc.), all of which I would have been interested in at one time.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
I think you need to be here in the US to register a new number though? Also if you don't use it for so long it goes away.
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have
access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I
will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US
and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget to adjust.
FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England -> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.
-- Fred
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget to adjust.
[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England -> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.
Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar, plus Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...
poc
On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget to adjust.
[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.
regards,
Steve
FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England -> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.
Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar, plus Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 03/20/2018 02:10 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget to adjust.
[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.
I've never heard that _countries_ have rules regarding top- and bottom- posts. It's typically more what the individual SIG (special interest group, mail-list, etc.) prefer. On the Fedora lists, we prefer bottom- posts because they maintain the temporal flow of the thread's content (comments are placed AFTER the thing they're commenting on). Other lists may prefer top-posts (although I can't understand why since I don't want to have to scroll through a comment to see what they're commenting ABOUT). But, you're in Oz and things are reversed there (hell, even the toilet water goes backwards). (I'm trying to be funny here! Don't take offense...I lived in Sydney for a year and loved it.)
For years, bottom posts were normal (and I go back to ye olden days of DARPAnet and moving mail around via UUCP using bang-paths). Then M$ stuck their noses into it and saddled the world with Outlook, which defaulted to top posting. Internet noobs used it and that's what they seem comfortable with.
FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England -> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.
Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar,SIP and H.323 plus Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...
Asterisk is really a full-boat VOIP PBX system, not a replacement for Skype or Slack or GotoMeeting or anything like that. Really anything that implements SIP and H.323 can be replacements (ekiga, softphone, etc.) for Skype and its ilk, but you need coordination between the clients and there are very, VERY few free ones out there. The hardware for tying into a POTS (plain-old telephone system) is expensive, plus you have to pay for the lines themselves. So far, I haven't found anyone philanthropic enough or with deep-enough pockets to fund something like that for free. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - Brain: The organ with which we think that we think. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think both top posting and bottom posting are asinine. The correct answer is to delete the quoted text and reply.
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
Just my not so humble opinion.
I love you all xx.
Sincerely,
chicago wrote:
I think both top posting and bottom posting are asinine. The correct answer is to delete the quoted text and reply.
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
The list guidelines ask folks to use "bottom, interleaved posting." and to "not over-quote by the hierarchy level in the correspondence."
It's a shame that many popular email clients make this require more effort than necessary and that many users come from work/school environments which encourage top-posting, over-quoting, HTML mail, etc.
Overall, I'd say the list members here do a reasonable job and many of the list regulars give helpful, friendly nudges to new members.
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400 Todd Zullinger tmz@pobox.com wrote:
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
d
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 19:49 -0700, Dave Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400 Todd Zullinger tmz@pobox.com wrote:
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured, but Google seem to have broken it now.
poc
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail.
(if
it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured
I was kind of afraid everyone would yell at me but I'm very pleasantly surprised. Thank you!
On 03/21/2018 11:47 AM, chicago wrote:
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail.
(if
it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured
I was kind of afraid everyone would yell at me but I'm very pleasantly surprised. Thank you!
(tongue planted firmly in cheek)
We never yell here on the list. We just discuss things......sometimes LOUDLY!
That being said, we have been known to occasionally cast doubts upon a poster's ancestry, but that's different. :-p ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - "Yeah, but you're taking the universe out of context." - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 03/21/2018 11:47 AM, chicago wrote:
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply
and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail.
(if
it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured
I was kind of afraid everyone would yell at me but I'm very pleasantly surprised. Thank you!
It is helpful though if you leave the quote attributions intact...
On 03/21/2018 02:02 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured, but Google seem to have broken it now.
It's a bit of a pain in gmail but I've gotten used to it. After clicking reply I use Ctl-A which expands the previous message, Ctl-Home to cancel out the select all, and then Delete twice to bring the last message to the top and then edit/trim as usual.
Thanks, Richard
On 21 March 2018 at 23:49, Richard Shaw hobbes1069@gmail.com wrote:
On 03/21/2018 02:02 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured, but Google seem to have broken it now.
It's a bit of a pain in gmail but I've gotten used to it. After clicking reply I use Ctl-A which expands the previous message, Ctl-Home to cancel out the select all, and then Delete twice to bring the last message to the top and then edit/trim as usual.
(Trying this from Gmail). Interesting, but that still doesn't allow selective quoting in the reply, other than by manually deleting the unwanted bits. The previous behaviour was to quote only the selected text, as happens with the other MUAs mentioned.
poc
Il giorno gio 22 mar 2018 alle 0:47, Richard England <"pdx.limey"@gmail.com> ha scritto:
On 03/21/2018 02:02 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Same in Evolution. In fact even the Gmail web client used to do this when properly configured, but Google seem to have broken it now.
Same in Thunberbird.
Same in Geary. (well, not in current master for me.. the project moved from Cmake to Meson recently and this is the most annoying regression, not fixed yet)
Gmail used to have an extensione which allowed "selective reply", but they dropped it: https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-reply-quoting-only-highlighted-text-in-gmail...
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:49:26 -0700 Dave Stevens geek@uniserve.com wrote:
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
Wow - using Claws Mail since quite some time, but didn't even know about the feature ... Thanks!
On 03/20/2018 07:49 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400 Todd Zullinger tmz@pobox.com wrote:
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
The problem with that is demonstrated by your example. The quoting is somewhat incorrect or at least misleading. The quote heading says "Todd ...", but the quote was actually something that Todd quoted. I do note that there is an extra level of quote markers, so someone could realize that, but it's not obvious and there's no indication who was being quoted.
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:07:01 -0700 Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
On 03/20/2018 07:49 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 22:29:29 -0400 Todd Zullinger tmz@pobox.com wrote:
If there's something you're replying to in particular, maybe quote that one line but there's no need to quote the entire thread so far in every email in the thread.
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
The problem with that is demonstrated by your example. The quoting is somewhat incorrect or at least misleading. The quote heading says "Todd ...", but the quote was actually something that Todd quoted. I do note that there is an extra level of quote markers, so someone could realize that, but it's not obvious and there's no indication who was being quoted. _
yes, that's right, I was only concerned about the reply-to-a-point issue.
Dave ______________________________________________
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:29:27 -0700 Dave Stevens geek@uniserve.com wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:07:01 -0700 Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
On 03/20/2018 07:49 PM, Dave Stevens wrote:
yes, in my client I highlight a point as I've done here then hit reply and get no cruft and just the point I want to discuss. Claws mail. (if it's good enough for Richard Stallman it's good enough for me!)
The problem with that is demonstrated by your example. The quoting is somewhat incorrect or at least misleading. The quote heading says "Todd ...", but the quote was actually something that Todd quoted. I do note that there is an extra level of quote markers, so someone could realize that, but it's not obvious and there's no indication who was being quoted. _
yes, that's right, I was only concerned about the reply-to-a-point issue.
The rub might lie in a missing capability to select multiple separate regions in some MUA: with ctrl-<left Mousebutton> I can do such selections easily on a web page in firefox, but not in Evolution and Claws Mail .. But maybe I simple missed the correct key combo for the MUAs ..
On 21/3/18 10:09 am, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 03/20/2018 02:10 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 21/3/18 12:05 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 08:29 -0400, fred roller wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 00:09 +0000, Néstor wrote:
You can actually use Google voice in another country as long as you have access to the internet.
Sometimes if I am I another and I need to call someone in that country I will go to a place that has WiFi and make the call like if i was in the US and i call that country's phone number.
[Please don't top-post]
When I said "only available to users in the US" I meant "only available to US users", i.e. users with an address and phone number in the US. Where you are physically when you make the call is irrelevant.
poc _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Apologies for the top posts, gmail insist on top posting reponses and I forget to adjust.
[Maybe also adjust to use plaintext ...]
Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.
I've never heard that _countries_ have rules regarding top- and bottom- posts. It's typically more what the individual SIG (special interest group, mail-list, etc.) prefer. On the Fedora lists, we prefer bottom- posts because they maintain the temporal flow of the thread's content (comments are placed AFTER the thing they're commenting on). Other lists may prefer top-posts (although I can't understand why since I don't want to have to scroll through a comment to see what they're commenting ABOUT). But, you're in Oz and things are reversed there (hell, even the toilet water goes backwards). (I'm trying to be funny here! Don't take offense...I lived in Sydney for a year and loved it.)
No offense taken, I'm used to those sorts of jokes.
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it is time consuming scrolling through mails to find responses. Having said this though there are occasions where responses have been embedded in mail, but in those situations there is a top post to say that is what they have done and their responses are also in a different color. Notes also has the convention that in replied to mail the mail address header information is embedded at the top of the contents, which then makes the original text a group that can be collapsed down to a single header line that identifies who the particular portion of the mail was from, and the collapsing of the email trail is done automatically so if responses are embedded in the mail trying to track them becomes a nightmare.
I'm also on the Ubuntu mailing list, and from what I'm seeing on that list, they don't seem to care, so users moving from Ubuntu to Fedora, will potentially continue to use their normal conventions for mails, forgetting that this list has a different convention to their "norm" even if they knew in the first place.
Having said all this, I don't have an issue with this list having a different convention to my norm, but new users to the list may not be aware of the situation, and humans being human will sometimes forget when the convention is not what they are used to, so all I'm saying is that people may have to be continually reminded.
regards,
Steve
For years, bottom posts were normal (and I go back to ye olden days of DARPAnet and moving mail around via UUCP using bang-paths). Then M$ stuck their noses into it and saddled the world with Outlook, which defaulted to top posting. Internet noobs used it and that's what they seem comfortable with.
FWIW you can give https://www.asterisk.org/ a try and DIY a phone server. The VOIP would give you the mobile option because I used it an age ago (headset and my laptop were my "phone" with any internet connection). Any calls to numbers would bill from server to client for purpose of long distance; i.e. you home base in England (server) go to France and call a client in Japan. Your calls to England home office, gratis. France to Japan would be billed from England -> Japan. There are ways to mitigate expense if not reduce to zero altogether if memory serves. It has been ages since I used this last but the project is still going strong and OS. File transfers can be handled through any number of online fileshare option, rather previlent these days.
Yes, I'm aware of Asterisk and considered it back when I was interested in Google Voice. That's no longer the case and I virtually never make actual phone calls rather than calling over WhatsApp or similar,SIP and H.323 plus Skype is already good enough for the few I do make - mainly to my US bank. If only these apps supported receiving SMS messages ...
Asterisk is really a full-boat VOIP PBX system, not a replacement for Skype or Slack or GotoMeeting or anything like that. Really anything that implements SIP and H.323 can be replacements (ekiga, softphone, etc.) for Skype and its ilk, but you need coordination between the clients and there are very, VERY few free ones out there. The hardware for tying into a POTS (plain-old telephone system) is expensive, plus you have to pay for the lines themselves. So far, I haven't found anyone philanthropic enough or with deep-enough pockets to fund something like that for free.
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-Brain: The organ with which we think that we think. -
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On Thu, 2018-03-22 at 08:52 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
and humans being human will sometimes forget when the convention is not what they are used to, so all I'm saying is that people may have to be continually reminded.
No "maybe" about it. I occasionally insert a reminder, but only if I'm replying anyway. I suspect most people don't because they prefer not to be seen as nagging, but somebody has to do it :-)
poc
You discussion is out of topic. Do thread owner found the alternative? If yes, stop bump the thread to much with unrelated to main topic.
Furthermore, i tried latest purple pidgin and send / received documents working perfectly with you skype account.
It also lightweight compare to official skype application.
Give a try!
On 22/3/18 11:40 pm, chicago wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system
Say no more. You've suffered enough.
I think notes is a great system if used properly. The organization I currently work for is looking at replacing notes with outlook, and I think they are stupid. In my view outlook/exchange is microsofts attempt at replicating notes and it is a dismal failure.
regards,
Steve
I think notes is a great system if used properly
Yeah, if just use the website and never open the app it is fine.
Also pidgin is a great idea to talk to people who are on Skype. Ideally though when we say alternatives to Skype I assumed we meant we are replacing both ends of a conversation.
On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it
I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and received no answer. And when I went to ask them why, they said I just sent them an empty email. I asked them to show me so they click on the email. Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.
On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it
I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and received no answer. And when I went to ask them why, they said I just sent them an empty email. I asked them to show me so they click on the email. Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.
Some people need educating. You could also insert [See below] at the top, for the more obtuse readers.
poc
People,
See inline responses:
On 2018-03-25 22:08, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it
I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and received no answer. And when I went to ask them why, they said I just sent them an empty email. I asked them to show me so they click on the email. Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.
Some people need educating. You could also insert [See below] at the top, for the more obtuse readers.
I use the above to make sure people don't miss one or more separate responses to specific points.
Regards,
Phil.
On Sat, 2018-03-24 at 17:13 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 03/21/2018 02:52 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
I've worked in seven different organizations, they all happened to use Lotus Notes as their mail system, which also defaults to top posting, but it was a rule in every organization that mail must be top posted. Their view was that having to trawl through mails to find responses is a time waster, therefore people will not be allowed to do it, hence particularly with high level managers, they applied the convention that if you did not top post they wouldn't read your mail. If I'm honest it
I've had situations where I've replied to people at various places and received no answer. And when I went to ask them why, they said I just sent them an empty email. I asked them to show me so they click on the email. Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.
I'd also point out that the 'no top-posting' guideline is specifically for mailing lists. I frequently top-post in personal replies using the Gmail web client.
poc
email. Of course my text is below the part immediately visible in the little preview window, so they assumed that I hadn't written anything.
I have had some positive feedback saying this here and while it is a bit extreme I think it is also a good compromise.
Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I can click to get rid of all the quotes text.
I think we should always do that except when you want to call attention to a particular snippet (I hope no more than about three lines).
I love you all.
Sincerely,
On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 14:17 +0000, chicago wrote:
Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I can click to get rid of all the quotes text.
No, *do* quote the part you are commenting on. It makes no sense to omit this. Of course it's all there in the archives but making your readers open a browser just to get the context of what you are talking about is poor practice.
I note that posts via HyperKitty seem to do this but don't know if that's the way it works by default. If so it's a bug and should be fixed.
poc
On 03/25/2018 07:17 AM, chicago wrote:
I have had some positive feedback saying this here and while it is a bit extreme I think it is also a good compromise.
This isn't a compromise, it's going to the opposite extreme.
Don't quote the entire email. In fact, don't quote anything at all when you reply. On k-9 mail there's a little x button (in the default config) that I can click to get rid of all the quotes text.
I think we should always do that except when you want to call attention to a particular snippet (I hope no more than about three lines).
It is much more helpful to include some context when replying. Obviously not the whole email with one line inserted somewhere, but enough text to understand the reply. Maybe if you're having a one-on-one exchange with someone, you don't need that, but especially on a mailing list like this with so much traffic, I don't want to have to read through the previous emails to find out what you're replying to.
P.S. I block read receipt requests.
The thread has digressed. A thread on "posting etiquette" was started to take up the subject. Has the OP, Patrick, found a solution or are we still helping? Please, close the thread or continue on subject. Apologies for the directness.
-- Fred
On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 21:56 -0400, fred roller wrote:
The thread has digressed. A thread on "posting etiquette" was started to take up the subject. Has the OP, Patrick, found a solution or are we still helping? Please, close the thread or continue on subject. Apologies for the directness.
Most of the "posting etiquette" discussion is now under a different sub-thread heading, but certainly it should have it's own thread if there's interest in continuing it.
poc
Allegedly, on or about 25 March 2018, chicago sent:
Don't quote the entire email.
For sure, and only what's necessary for your reply to make sense all by itself.
In fact, don't quote anything at all when you reply.
I wouldn't do that, as a first choice. Sure, if you have a mail client that's a bastard to selectively quote, or won't let you edit the reply, it will probably be preferable than posting a large message with a tiny response.
But, generally speaking, make your reply understandable as a stand- alone message.
The other option when quoting is technically hard to do, is to paraphrase the questions you're responding to in your reply. As you would have done in traditional mail.
On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 08:10 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote:
Just my 2 cents worth on this, relative to the top posting, different countries have different requirements, so you may have to keep reminding people that this list has a different convention. I have Thunderbird configured to top post, and understanding the conventions of this list I work around that, but here in Australia it is considered rude to not Top Post, and if you don't Top Post, your mail is immediate grounds for it to be moved to the "round filing cabinet" without being read.
Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines of this and other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention many other mailing lists of a technical nature. Please read:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style
Users of corporate email systems are accustomed to top-posting, and this is reinforced by the default configuration of many mail clients, which seem to blindly follow the method dictated by Outlook. However the corporate world has little experience of discussion lists such as this one and uses mailing lists mainly for distribution. There is also a culture of copying everything over and over again, which top-posting encourages, with little or any effort made to edit redundant material when quoting. When a list lends itself to multiple threaded discussions, often many layers deep, and when the entire history of posts is maintained in an online archive, this is simply inane.
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines of this and other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention many other mailing lists of a technical nature. Please read:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style
This reminded me that we used to include a link to the guidelines in the list footer (and in the list welcome message). Not everyone reads it no matter how often we may include it, but it surely helps raise awareness a little.
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6794
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
Top-posting is specifically discouraged by the Guidelines of this and other lists hosted by Fedora, not to mention many other mailing lists of a technical nature. Please read:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Proper_posting_style
This reminded me that we used to include a link to the guidelines in the list footer (and in the list welcome message). Not everyone reads it no matter how often we may include it, but it surely helps raise awareness a little.
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/... but nothing happened. You've gone the extra mile and looked into how it can be done. I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.
(I also think the new archive system is significantly less useful than the old one, but that's a different topic).
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/... but nothing happened.
Ahh. I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't following the list closely. Generally, anything that needs the attention of a list admin should get sent to the users-owner address. Otherwise it's likely to simply fall through the cracks. :)
I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.
Yep. The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to the footer. So it's likely that will be added when that ticket is addressed.
On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/... but nothing happened.
Ahh. I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't following the list closely. Generally, anything that needs the attention of a list admin should get sent to the users-owner address. Otherwise it's likely to simply fall through the cracks. :)
I guess, though one of the admins did take part.
I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.
Yep. The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to the footer. So it's likely that will be added when that ticket is addressed.
Here's hoping.
poc
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/... but nothing happened.
Ahh. I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't following the list closely. Generally, anything that needs the attention of a list admin should get sent to the users-owner address. Otherwise it's likely to simply fall through the cracks. :)
I guess, though one of the admins did take part.
I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.
Yep. The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to the footer. So it's likely that will be added when that ticket is addressed.
Here's hoping.
Following up on an old item, I'm pleased to say there is now a customized list footer for all Fedora lists (not just this list). This is thanks to the combined effort of a few folks on the Fedora Infrastructure team (Kevin Fenzi and Aurélien Bompard). There were a few change freezes and other work which took precedence. But this change was not forgotten.
One minor things we're likely to adjust is that the list archives link points to the URL of the message being sent rather than the generic archive URL. (Both links are in the headers as "Archived-At:" and "List-Archives:" for anyone curious.)
On Thu, 2018-05-17 at 10:32 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Wed, 2018-03-21 at 12:02 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2018-03-20 at 22:20 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote:
With the move to mailman3, the list footer cannot be set via the web-based admin interface. I dug into the mailman3 documentation and filed an infrastructure ticket to see about adding guidelines link back to the list footer for this list.
Thanks. I tried to bring this up recently (in the thread at: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/... but nothing happened.
Ahh. I happened to be traveling at that time and wasn't following the list closely. Generally, anything that needs the attention of a list admin should get sent to the users-owner address. Otherwise it's likely to simply fall through the cracks. :)
I guess, though one of the admins did take part.
I'd also like to suggest an explicit URL for the list archive in the message footer, which did used to be there. I know it's in the message headers, but these aren't clickable in many MUAs.
Yep. The discussion in the ticket I filed includes a suggestion (and example text) for adding the archive link to the footer. So it's likely that will be added when that ticket is addressed.
Here's hoping.
Following up on an old item, I'm pleased to say there is now a customized list footer for all Fedora lists (not just this list). This is thanks to the combined effort of a few folks on the Fedora Infrastructure team (Kevin Fenzi and Aurélien Bompard). There were a few change freezes and other work which took precedence. But this change was not forgotten.
One minor things we're likely to adjust is that the list archives link points to the URL of the message being sent rather than the generic archive URL. (Both links are in the headers as "Archived-At:" and "List-Archives:" for anyone curious.)
Thanks Todd and others, much appreciated.
BTW it's "List-Archive:" not "List-Archives:", but whatever.
poc
Try Viber It may be an alternative
Cheers
On 18/3/18 7:52 am, Patrick Dupre wrote:
Hello,
Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange documents ?
Thank.
=========================================================================== Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdupre@gmx.com Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | | Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | | Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
I use Telegram.
Em sáb, 17 de mar de 2018 17:55, Patrick Dupre pdupre@gmx.com escreveu:
Hello,
Is there an alternative to skype which would also allow me to exchange documents ?
Thank.
=========================================================================== Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdupre@gmx.com Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | | Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | | Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
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