I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Thanks, Chris
Fedora 31 Workstation XFCE Desktop Enviroment.
On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 17:31 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Thanks, Chris
Fedora 31 Workstation XFCE Desktop Enviroment.
I forgot to say that The reason I a ask is because I am new to the Fedora family. I have been a Ubuntu user for a long time and have made the switch about a month ago to Fedora.
Thanks,
Chris
Fedora 31 Workstation XFCE Desktop Enviroment.
On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 17:31 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
When Fedora N comes out, Fedora N-1 is supported until Fedora N+1 is released, then dropped (EOLed) shortly after. This happens approximately every 6 months. IOW there are always at least two supported releases at any time, namely N and N-1.
poc
On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 17:31 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Yes, there's two releases being supported at the time.
Like many others, I have two reasons for not being on the latest release: I don't wish to do lots of bug resolving. And I don't want to radically change my OS that often.
For similar reasons, my server runs CentOS. I'll use Fedora for client machines, but find its rapid churn to be nuisance for servers.
On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 15:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 17:31 -0500, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Yes, there's two releases being supported at the time.
Like many others, I have two reasons for not being on the latest release: I don't wish to do lots of bug resolving. And I don't want to radically change my OS that often.
Staying on N-1 doesn't reduce the frequency of updates. N-1 changes just as often as N.
poc
Tim:
Like many others, I have two reasons for not being on the latest release: I don't wish to do lots of bug resolving. And I don't want to radically change my OS that often.
Patrick O'Callaghan:
Staying on N-1 doesn't reduce the frequency of updates. N-1 changes just as often as N.
I tend to only install every second release. There's some amount of overlap before the 3rd release back gets ignored.
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 at 19:33, Christopher Marlow fedora@cwm030.com wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
There are always 2 supported versions. Linux is a community effort, so everyone benefits from the work of people who test new releases and report any problems. There is always a period of pre-release testing that helps minimize the problems in new releases.
If you are using Fedora N for some big project when N+1 is released, you want to put off updating until you reach a good stopping point. If you are using Fedora as your primary desktop environment and it is working well, then other things may be more important to you than upgrading. There are ways to "check out" a new version (Live boot or VM) to see if upgrading is worthwhile. Live boot may reveal hardware issues (such as missing drivers for older kit) that you want to address before upgrading.
There are people whose primary interest is development, documentation, and/or workflows based on a particular application. It is important to be looking ahead to see where newer versions of key libraries and other software may require changes to the application and related workflows. Historically, applications often needed to provide capabilities that were not available in older linux distros. Over time, these capabilities are appearing in distros, which means applications can be simplified or can focus on other improvements. Fedora releases are well suited to this sort of work.
On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early phases after a release.
I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Yes, typically 1/2 year + 1 month.
Ralf
On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 14:05 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
I'd say it's almost entirely unlike installing Windows 10 updates. For one thing, you can choose when (and if) to do it, and for another you update everything (system, user software, libraries etc.) at the same time and in the same way, one of the main advantages of a repo-based system which Windows doesn't have.
poc
On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early phases after a release.
VETO !!!
I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use. I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.
I do nothing special on my box, but all needs to run and it did (at least in the past)
Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5 (!) bullets.
And with Win10 M$ loads your gun again and again, every 6 month you'll get new bullets, maybe 6 this time. [1]
"Good night and good luck".
Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.
M$ declares their Beta's as release (and on top of it they want to get paid (Money, private data).
Fedora declares their beta's as beta's and they are - maybe not for everyone - useable as release.
that's just my view over the last ~ 20 years.
your mileage may vary...
[1] cause I'm not convinced M$ is able to calculate (apart dollars):
try to calculate 2 x 4 + 1 x 4 with their buildin calculator (win7, 8.1, 10 ?) !
=> 36
the answer of all questions ! :-)
On 3/12/20 5:10 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early phases after a release.
VETO !!!
I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use. I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.
Mere luck ;)
Seriously, this is a case of YMMV. Throughout the years, I've experienced all kind upgrades. From entirely flawless to total disaster.
Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5 (!) bullets.
Exactly. Though Fedora upgrades in general are not as much russian roulette as MS update, they also carry a non-zero risk.
From my experience, the probability of success s significantly higher a couple of weeks later after release, when a Fedora release has seen some "exposure to the wild" and when maintainers had a chance to fix their bugs.
Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.
My point was the Russian roulette character. Fedora upgrades share the Russian roulette character with MS-Patch Tuesdays.
Ralf
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 20:48, Ralf Corsepius rc040203@freenet.de wrote:
On 3/12/20 5:10 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
On 12.03.20 14:05, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
On 3/11/20 11:31 PM, Christopher Marlow wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
Upgrading Fedora is a bit like "installing Win10" updates.
That said, I usually wait for a couple of weeks before upgrading, because new Fedora releases tend to suffer from pretty nasty bugs or changes, which often get fixed or at least documented in the early phases after a release.
VETO !!!
I installed (upgraded to) F31 when it was Beta and used it for daily use. I'm not sure, but I mean I did so with F30.
Mere luck ;)
Seriously, this is a case of YMMV. Throughout the years, I've experienced all kind upgrades. From entirely flawless to total disaster.
Win10 or general Win up{d,gr}ate is a russian roulette with default 5 (!) bullets.
Exactly. Though Fedora upgrades in general are not as much russian roulette as MS update, they also carry a non-zero risk.
From my experience, the probability of success s significantly higher a couple of weeks later after release, when a Fedora release has seen some "exposure to the wild" and when maintainers had a chance to fix their bugs.
Even while Fedora documents their bugs your comparison is invalide.
My point was the Russian roulette character. Fedora upgrades share the Russian roulette character with MS-Patch Tuesdays.
Ralf _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 12.03.20 20:08, Neil Thompson wrote:
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
*ALL* opinions are necessary !
even the crucial let the world move forward.
From: Neil Thompson albiorix@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
Neil, A agree with you on this!!! I have may not posted much but I have been working with Fedora since release 1!!!!!
Ralf, Maybe you need to find another distro.
Regards, Will (CodeHeads)
Gentle People:
"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking
something much worse!
Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!
If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a quality problem**.*
FIX IT!
P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, willw@code-heads.com wrote:
From: Neil Thompson albiorix@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
Neil, A agree with you on this!!! I have may not posted much but I have been working with Fedora since release 1!!!!!
Ralf, Maybe you need to find another distro.
Regards, Will (CodeHeads) _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Gentle People:
"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
Its those dammed annoying customer complaints again!
If you have customers (Users) you will have customer complaints.
I am vehemently against the practice of having customers!
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 1:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking
something much worse!
Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!
If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a quality problem**.*
FIX IT!
P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, willw@code-heads.com wrote:
From: Neil Thompsonalbiorix@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM To: Community support for Fedora usersusers@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
Neil, A agree with you on this!!! I have may not posted much but I have been working with Fedora since release 1!!!!!
Ralf, Maybe you need to find another distro.
Regards, Will (CodeHeads) _______________________________________________ users mailing list --users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email tousers-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines:https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers.
On 3/12/2020 3:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking
something much worse!
Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!
If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a quality problem**.*
FIX IT!
P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, willw@code-heads.com wrote:
From: Neil Thompson albiorix@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
Neil, A agree with you on this!!! I have may not posted much but I have been working with Fedora since release 1!!!!!
Ralf, Maybe you need to find another distro.
Regards, Will (CodeHeads) _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."
Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora: I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas Ovens located these days?
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 2:03 PM, Doug Wyatt wrote:
Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers.
On 3/12/2020 3:34 PM, Thomas Dineen wrote:
Gentle People:
"I don't think your opinion is really necessary here"
My god what a ridiculus thing to say! P.S. I am thinking
something much worse!
Quality is in the eye of the User (Customer)!
If the customer says you have a quality problem, *then you have a quality problem**.*
FIX IT!
P.S. I found that the best upgrade path is to CentOS.
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 1:12 PM, willw@code-heads.com wrote:
From: Neil Thompson albiorix@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:09 PM To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Reasons for staying on a old version ( Re: Prepping for upgrade)
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
Neil, A agree with you on this!!! I have may not posted much but I have been working with Fedora since release 1!!!!!
Ralf, Maybe you need to find another distro.
Regards, Will (CodeHeads) _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."
Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora: I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas Ovens located these days?
Thomas Dineen
what a bullshit !
observer, victim, gas oven.... (wording equals mind set ?)
dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !
"dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !"
Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense
of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software.
Maybe a transplant?
BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much!
Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,.......
Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers."
Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora: I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas Ovens located these days?
Thomas Dineen
what a bullshit !
observer, victim, gas oven.... (wording equals mind set ?)
dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !
Could we all just try to stop with the "clever" snarky nonsense and keep the list positive and on topic? If you dislike fedora, then feel free to try something else. If you have constructive criticism, share it. If you just want to bicker and argue about who killed who then maybe take it to another venue?
On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 19:41 -0700, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !" Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software. Maybe a transplant? BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much! Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,....... Thomas Dineen
On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers." Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora:I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the GasOvens located these days? Thomas Dineen
what a bullshit ! observer, victim, gas oven.... (wording equals mind set ?) dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !
_______________________________________________users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Kevin:
Decaf!
On 3/12/2020 7:55 PM, Kevin Becker wrote:
Could we all just try to stop with the "clever" snarky nonsense and keep the list positive and on topic? If you dislike fedora, then feel free to try something else. If you have constructive criticism, share it. If you just want to bicker and argue about who killed who then maybe take it to another venue?
On Thu, 2020-03-12 at 19:41 -0700, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !" Not only do you have quality problems, you have lost your sense of humor, and that is way worse than buggy software. Maybe a transplant? BTW: Saying that your better than Windows is not saying much! Well there is always CentOS, Ubuntu,....... Thomas Dineen On 3/12/2020 6:15 PM, sixpack13 wrote:
On 13.03.20 01:34, Thomas Dineen wrote:
"Fedora users aren't "customers", we're essentially beta testers." Having been an observer here since the beginning of Fedora: I would say more victims than Beta Testers! Where are the Gas Ovens located these days? Thomas Dineen
what a bullshit ! observer, victim, gas oven.... (wording equals mind set ?) dude, GO HOME and tell that your barber !
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
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On 3/12/20 8:08 PM, Neil Thompson wrote:
Ralf,
With all due respect (i.e. none) I don't think your opinion is really necessary here - you've made your feelings clear over the last long while and I have to wonder what the heck you're still doing here if you hate the whole thing so much. Surely there's another distribution that meets your strict requirements better than Fedora?
What makes your think, I hate Fedora? What do you think legitimates you misbehave in the you did and to rudely attack and offend me?
You can't stand opinions, which diverge from the official Fedora (TM) marketing opinions?
I am using Linux for > 25 years, I am using Fedora since its first day and have encountered many of the problems Fedora releases suffer from. Also, I maintain >> 100 packages in Fedora and therefore am pretty sure to know the problems Fedora suffers from.
Ralf
I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that everything on the additional repos is sorted out.
Having said that, apart from the occasional oddity (like this time I had to uninstall cmake-fedora before upgrading), the cli upgrade process has been pretty much flawless over at least the past 5 releases. Kudos to the developers.
I've been using Red Hat stuff since Mother's Day Plus One, and both Fedora and RHEL (CentOS) are in their best state ever.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 00:33, Christopher Marlow fedora@cwm030.com wrote:
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31? I am guessing after a new version of FC comes out, that the previous version is still supported for a limited time?
Thanks, Chris
Fedora 31 Workstation XFCE Desktop Enviroment. _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 12.03.20 17:29, Neil Thompson wrote:
I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that everything on the additional repos is sorted out.
sorted out from whom ?
you're screw if everybody waits.
Hopefully one helps sorting with release+1 in an VM or so
=> quicker sorting
Sorted out and working properly. I have no problem admitting I'm letting other people do the hard work now. I've done my time.
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 19:36, sixpack13 sixpack13@online.de wrote:
On 12.03.20 17:29, Neil Thompson wrote:
I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that everything on the additional repos is sorted out.
sorted out from whom ?
you're screw if everybody waits.
Hopefully one helps sorting with release+1 in an VM or so
=> quicker sorting
-- sixpack13 _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Neil Thompson:
I generally wait a month or so before upgrading, just to make sure that everything on the additional repos is sorted out.
sixpack13:
sorted out from whom ?
you're screw if everybody waits.
While there's a point in your rebuttle, the reality is that not everybody waits. Those with the confidence or debugging skills do wade in, straight away.
On the other hand, there are plenty of users without debugging skills, and there's little usefulness in them trying to help debug something when they don't know how. And risking bricking their computer just to be up-to-date doesn't do them any good, either.
On 13.03.20 08:20, Tim via users wrote: ...
While there's a point in your rebuttle, the reality is that not everybody waits. Those with the confidence or debugging skills do wade in, straight away.
On the other hand, there are plenty of users without debugging skills, and there's little usefulness in them trying to help debug something when they don't know how. And risking bricking their computer just to be up-to-date doesn't do them any good, either.
please read my comment again.
my wording ended with "...in an VM or so"
VM := virtual machine (gnome boxes, Virtualbox, etc.) or so := a second install
esp. for the VM: where is the risk ?
and debugging skills: I too don't have them.
finding bugs by using Fedora Beta is enough - for the first part -
nailing them done: you'll get enough help from *this* list, too
everybody will win during finding, helping, debugging, fixing and esp. learning (!!!) and in the end using a bug freeer release.
On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 10:21, sixpack13 sixpack13@online.de wrote:
On 13.03.20 08:20, Tim via users wrote: ...
While there's a point in your rebuttle, the reality is that not everybody waits. Those with the confidence or debugging skills do wade in, straight away.
On the other hand, there are plenty of users without debugging skills, and there's little usefulness in them trying to help debug something when they don't know how. And risking bricking their computer just to be up-to-date doesn't do them any good, either.
please read my comment again.
my wording ended with "...in an VM or so"
VM := virtual machine (gnome boxes, Virtualbox, etc.) or so := a second install
esp. for the VM: where is the risk ?
VM's are very useful, but the virtual hardware doesn't cover the full range of physical hardware, so a VM can work fine when the same distro has a problem on the bare metal.
In my experience, "user error" is the biggest risk factor for bare metal installs. Like "pilot error" in plane crashes, mistakes occur when the system provides inadequate information. Pilots, however, have seconds to choose how to react. Most installers provide an escape option before making an irreversible change, so "redo from start is possible", but if the user has chosen to install to a backup drive they may not get any warning that this might be a problem. Many problems could be avoided by simply disconnecting all external drives and non-essential devices when installing. Removing the current system drive and installing linux to a new drive makes irreversibel mistakes unlikely.
and debugging skills: I too don't have them.
Beta testers don't need debugging skills, just the ability to generate good bug reports. I do have debugging in my skill set, but it is almost always better to report the bug and let upstream developers figure out the best way to handle the problem. Developers generally have a better overall view and know about changes in the pipeline that may dictate how a problem is best handled.
finding bugs by using Fedora Beta is enough - for the first part -
nailing them done: you'll get enough help from *this* list, too
everybody will win during finding, helping, debugging, fixing and esp. learning (!!!) and in the end using a bug freeer release.
There are many different "mission critical" workflows that use linux. Production systems generally rely on long-term releases, but in some use cases long-term releases don't work and the required fixes are already available or can easily be introduced in Fedora. If the use case is sufficently important, a fix may be backported to the long-term release.
(On Wed, 2020-03-11 at 4:31 PM, Christopher wrote)
I am just curious why people stay on old versions of Fedora like say FC30 instead of upgrading to 31?
I'm one of those people.
Several years ago, I worked for a contractor for the US National Weather Service. I worked on software called AWIPS, the software used in all National Weather Service forecast offices to produce forecasts, advisories, watches, and warnings. It was "mission-critical". The operating system was Redhat Enterprise. We followed a policy of waiting a full year after a new Enterprise release was released before upgrading operational workstations. I saw good wisdom in this. Though a new release was thoroughly tested by Redhat before releasing it, we knew some fundamental principles of software testing: - there's always another bug. - it's not possible to completely test any non-trivial software. So any newly-released version of Redhat Enterprise (or any other operating system) was guaranteed to still have bugs. By waiting the extra year, the number (and severity?) of bugs should be substantially less.
I have only my one home workstation; no cell/mobile phone. Moreover, I have no training or professional experience in sys.admin.; I'm merely a home user, as my handle suggests. I use my workstation mainly for personal business, not to a significant degree for gaming or social networking. Thus for me personally, this workstation is "mission critical". So I apply what I learned from my AWIPS days. Fedora is an excellent operating system, and I believe each release is well tested before it goes out. But it's huge and complex (like all operating systems). It still has bugs. So I wait about 5 1/2 months before upgrading to the new release. Even then it still has bugs, but fewer, and hopefully less impactful. Less risk. Other people who have fallbacks can take more risk and upgrade sooner if they so desire, if that's what they believe best for them.
Welcome to Fedora. I hope you like it; I do (overall much better than windows). As for upgrading, do what you believe works best for you. That's what I do.