Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
I still have an Fedora 7 system, not because one version is problematic over another but because I downloaded the image and never burned a DVD for the other computer yet.
I do now have a problem with the Fedora 7 computer where nmd or some other factor related to names for the server to connect is busted but I can still use the ip. The speed for transfers is faster than the windows server for the same task, so I'll wait for a fix once I get the DVD burned for an upgrade or just wait until Fedora 9 is released.
Basically, if one version works for you and is still supported with updates, there is no great reason to rush for an upgrade in version. If Fedora 7 works best for you, you have awhile before it becomes unsupported. Fedora 9 is not yet in the alpha phase so time is not critical.
Regarding finances, I'm far from rich.
Jim
Jim Cornette wrote:
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
I still have an Fedora 7 system, not because one version is problematic over another but because I downloaded the image and never burned a DVD for the other computer yet.
I do now have a problem with the Fedora 7 computer where nmd or some other factor related to names for the server to connect is busted but I can still use the ip. The speed for transfers is faster than the windows server for the same task, so I'll wait for a fix once I get the DVD burned for an upgrade or just wait until Fedora 9 is released.
Basically, if one version works for you and is still supported with updates, there is no great reason to rush for an upgrade in version. If Fedora 7 works best for you, you have awhile before it becomes unsupported. Fedora 9 is not yet in the alpha phase so time is not critical.
Regarding finances, I'm far from rich.
Jim
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8. I can get zero help from this list so I will just relax and enjoy F7. As for your problem, nmd what ever that is must be working :-)
On F8 the sound is failing and no known cause for this. I will soon not be working on anything. I think it is a big problem.
73 Karl
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 18:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Other people have a problem here and there with Fedora 8, but you are the only person I have encountered who has major problems every couple of days. Possibly you have stablized your Fedora 7 install, but I seem to remember you having similar rounds of problems with it. Your problem-solving techniques seem very unsystematic, and you are far too quick to declare that something is broken. I am not trying to put you down, but all these observations suggest that the problem isn't with the software most of the time, but with how you are exploring it.
You might have better luck if you asked questions before you tried anything major. Also, you might consider making a backup of your system before trying any major change so that you can restore your system when disaster strikes, and keeping systematic notes of what you have done so that people can help you better. These measures alone would make your life (to say nothing of your interactions on this list) much less angst-ridden.
Perhaps, too, you might start a thread abouts how to explore your system, and see what other advice people can give.
Just a thought,
Bruce Byfield wrote:
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 18:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Other people have a problem here and there with Fedora 8, but you are the only person I have encountered who has major problems every couple of days. Possibly you have stablized your Fedora 7 install, but I seem to remember you having similar rounds of problems with it. Your problem-solving techniques seem very unsystematic, and you are far too quick to declare that something is broken. I am not trying to put you down, but all these observations suggest that the problem isn't with the software most of the time, but with how you are exploring it.
You might have better luck if you asked questions before you tried anything major. Also, you might consider making a backup of your system before trying any major change so that you can restore your system when disaster strikes, and keeping systematic notes of what you have done so that people can help you better. These measures alone would make your life (to say nothing of your interactions on this list) much less angst-ridden.
Perhaps, too, you might start a thread abouts how to explore your system, and see what other advice people can give.
Just a thought,
You are right. I didn't give anyone what I did. The first thing I did was rpm -e all the pulseaudio rpm's in the F8 DVD. Easy to replace. Then I deleted all the pulseaudio rpm's from the updates. Easy to replace. Last I removed the file Nigel said is key to turning off pulseaudio.
I can replace all of that and the system should be where it was when I first turned it on. Might do that tomorrow.
Karl
On 19/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8.
Doesn't surprise me. I also reinstalled F8 on Sun 09 Dec 2007, but after more problems than losing only pulseaudio and related gstreamer components. Too many untested or poorly tested updates are published for F8. It is a moving target.
Michael Schwendt escribió:
On 19/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8.
Doesn't surprise me. I also reinstalled F8 on Sun 09 Dec 2007, but after more problems than losing only pulseaudio and related gstreamer components. Too many untested or poorly tested updates are published for F8. It is a moving target.
Don't forget the anaconda bug that didn't let you upgrade from previous versions.
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 04:14 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 19/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8.
Doesn't surprise me. I also reinstalled F8 on Sun 09 Dec 2007, but after more problems than losing only pulseaudio and related gstreamer components. Too many untested or poorly tested updates are published for F8. It is a moving target.
---- is there something unstated here?
do you lack enthusiasm for the switch over to pulse audio?
Craig
On 19/01/2008, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 04:14 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 19/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8.
Doesn't surprise me. I also reinstalled F8 on Sun 09 Dec 2007, but after more problems than losing only pulseaudio and related gstreamer components. Too many untested or poorly tested updates are published for F8. It is a moving target.
is there something unstated here?
do you lack enthusiasm for the switch over to pulse audio?
No, it's an interesting effort with good goals. Actually, I would welcome any changes that would hide "ALSA", "OSS", and low-level audio device names from the user of a modern Linux desktop.
I lack enthusiasm for a never-ending flood of updates that turned F8 into something that worked less good in comparison with its several test releases. Even without using "root" to do any bad things to my installation, more and more components malfunctioned. Some refused to work and some became binary incompatible even requiring rebuilds and further updates. Overall, I've had the feeling that all those software version upgrades moved away the distribution too quickly from the tested gold release of F8 and ought to have been tested longer and painstakingly first. And that possibly it mattered much when exactly to apply updates. For example, that skipping one package release increased the chance of causing problems whereas applying every package release would have worked (or vice versa). Without a doubt, the updates for F8 that I installed up to Dec 9th broke my installation in multiple ways. Up to a point where reinstalling became the more convenient option than debugging XML files, IPC and component installation and registration and spending additional time in a bug tracking system that's slow like a snail and also user-unfriendly.
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 19/01/2008, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 04:14 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 19/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8.
Doesn't surprise me. I also reinstalled F8 on Sun 09 Dec 2007, but after more problems than losing only pulseaudio and related gstreamer components. Too many untested or poorly tested updates are published for F8. It is a moving target.
is there something unstated here?
do you lack enthusiasm for the switch over to pulse audio?
No, it's an interesting effort with good goals. Actually, I would welcome any changes that would hide "ALSA", "OSS", and low-level audio device names from the user of a modern Linux desktop.
I lack enthusiasm for a never-ending flood of updates that turned F8 into something that worked less good in comparison with its several test releases.
This I noticed too. There seems to be something besides the problems I was trying to correct going on. This is a stark thing when compared to the good effects updates had on F7. It was pretty bad before the updates improved it to the current state.
Even without using "root" to do any bad things to my installation, more and more components malfunctioned. Some refused to work and some became binary incompatible even requiring rebuilds and further updates. Overall, I've had the feeling that all those software version upgrades moved away the distribution too quickly from the tested gold release of F8 and ought to have been tested longer and painstakingly first. And that possibly it mattered much when exactly to apply updates. For example, that skipping one package release increased the chance of causing problems whereas applying every package release would have worked (or vice versa). Without a doubt, the updates for F8 that I installed up to Dec 9th broke my installation in multiple ways. Up to a point where reinstalling became the more convenient option than debugging XML files, IPC and component installation and registration and spending additional time in a bug tracking system that's slow like a snail and also user-unfriendly.
You never mentioned Nvidia which is a thorn in my side. I can't get Fedora to send me updated Nvidia drivers with each new kernel because I can't find the right rpm on the non-fedora repo called freshrpm.repo. The addition of that repo srewed up my yum to the point I re-loaded F8.
I thought it was all my doing that was causing my problems. Nice to hear there are deeper problems that are assisting my trouble. Somehow I got update to send me the Nvidia drivers along with each new kernel on F7. I will stay here.
Karl
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 09:00 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
You never mentioned Nvidia which is a thorn in my side. I can't get Fedora to send me updated Nvidia drivers with each new kernel because I can't find the right rpm on the non-fedora repo called freshrpm.repo. The addition of that repo srewed up my yum to the point I re-loaded F8. I thought it was all my doing that was causing my problems. Nice to hear there are deeper problems that are assisting my trouble. Somehow I got update to send me the Nvidia drivers along with each new kernel on F7. I will stay here.
---- you don't need freshrpms to get nVidia dynamic installation, livna has them too.
with Livna, you only need to run...
yum install kmod-nvidia
they couldn't make it any easier...
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 09:00 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
You never mentioned Nvidia which is a thorn in my side. I can't get Fedora to send me updated Nvidia drivers with each new kernel because I can't find the right rpm on the non-fedora repo called freshrpm.repo. The addition of that repo srewed up my yum to the point I re-loaded F8. I thought it was all my doing that was causing my problems. Nice to hear there are deeper problems that are assisting my trouble. Somehow I got update to send me the Nvidia drivers along with each new kernel on F7. I will stay here.
you don't need freshrpms to get nVidia dynamic installation, livna has them too.
with Livna, you only need to run...
yum install kmod-nvidia
they couldn't make it any easier...
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
Craig
Sure they can. It needs to be yum install nvidia :-)
But thanks I had no idea that nvidia was on livna. That is good. I will try it on F8. I must have tried it on F7 earlier.
Karl
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 09:00 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
You never mentioned Nvidia which is a thorn in my side. I can't get Fedora to send me updated Nvidia drivers with each new kernel because I can't find the right rpm on the non-fedora repo called freshrpm.repo. The addition of that repo srewed up my yum to the point I re-loaded F8. I thought it was all my doing that was causing my problems. Nice to hear there are deeper problems that are assisting my trouble. Somehow I got update to send me the Nvidia drivers along with each new kernel on F7. I will stay here.
you don't need freshrpms to get nVidia dynamic installation, livna has them too.
with Livna, you only need to run...
yum install kmod-nvidia
they couldn't make it any easier...
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
Craig
Sure they can. It needs to be yum install nvidia :-)
But thanks I had no idea that nvidia was on livna. That is good. I will try it on F8. I must have tried it on F7 earlier.
---- it works with F7 too
Craig
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
yOn Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
at the risk of piling on, this very fact was pointed out to karl only a week ago:
http://www.nabble.com/Nvidia-again-td14778348.html
karl's act is becoming tiresome but, in his defense, it's some of the best entertainment we're going to get in that price range.
rday --
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ========================================================================
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 07:37 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
karl's act is becoming tiresome but, in his defense, it's some of the best entertainment we're going to get in that price range.
It's tempting to say, as root: echo "rm -rfd /*" >> /etc/rc.local
I don't have a problem with people who're slow learners, or have trouble understanding the difficult bits. But the dummy spits, the hand biting, accusations, false assertions, etc., are just too much. I'm half inclined to suspect a troll or Munchausen's...
I know someone who's the same in real life about just about everything. Claims nobody helps them, but gets nothing but help from all and sundry. That their life is harder than everyone elses, when it's not. And they dole out grief in elephantine proportions.
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
Karl
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
Karl
behold:
http://lists.linuxcoding.com/rhl/2007q3/msg13209.html
in which karl is posting to the fedora list, to a thread whose subject is, "livna nvidia update problem."
the prosecution rests.
rday --
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
Karl
behold:
http://lists.linuxcoding.com/rhl/2007q3/msg13209.html
in which karl is posting to the fedora list, to a thread whose subject is, "livna nvidia update problem."
the prosecution rests.
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ========================================================================
Show the whole message rday. Here it is:
lostson wrote:
On Sun, 2007-09-23 at 19:38 -0400, Mail List wrote:
Also - the nvidia-kmod-common is not in cache - and yum install nvidia-kmod-common does nothing. Having to download rpm's by hand surely feels not correct ?
Yes this is not correct behavior and I have not seen this before. I am sure the guys at livna are aware of it and it will be resolved soon. As long as everything is working on your machine and your nvidia drivers are working your not going to benefit a ton from these new drivers anyway. Personally I will just be patient no reason to go downloading things by hand and working around yum. my 2 cents anyway.
I got the 3 updates again this morning and again they failed due to some problem. It appeared to be a dependent file that conflicts with one already installed. This is not the usual yum update action.
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org.
As you see rday I was talking about some update that I was not getting, had nothing to do with Nvidia. That was loston who was talking about nvidia.
As usual rday you go out of your way to show me up and instead screw up.
Karl
I have learned some things about F8 which need to be understood. For some reason if you remove the 6 pulseaudio rpm's on the F8 DVD from your computer the audio will not work. The best way to disable pulseaudio is to remove just one file, leaving the rest. Remove the file this way:
# yum remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
Since there will be more pulseaudio updates I set up my yum so it denies any of these. You can do this by adding a line in the file /etc/yum.conf which says exclude= *pulseaudio* and you will not get any update with pulseaudio in it's name.
While I was having trouble getting vlc from either freshrpms or livna a user explained all the problems he was having with F8. Then others said similar things so I expect F8 to not boot or do things when the internal binary files fail. It appears if you use F8 for awhile it will just stop working no fault of the user.
Watching for the problems to start will be a project to me. There is lots that I like about F8. It shows some code written to make the Desktop look nicer than F7 and a lot of little things. I like that. I will back up this F8 with rsync to a USB hard drive.
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 09:05 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
---- the urination predilections notwithstanding, here is one very clear explanation by Lamar in response to one of your rants...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01448.html
and of course as I pointed out on a different thread...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01633.html
so your assertion that you had no idea that nVidia drivers were on Livna is proof that it does little good to point these things out to you.
I do note that both of these noted messages were direct replies to you.
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 09:05 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
the urination predilections notwithstanding, here is one very clear explanation by Lamar in response to one of your rants...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01448.html
and of course as I pointed out on a different thread...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01633.html
so your assertion that you had no idea that nVidia drivers were on Livna is proof that it does little good to point these things out to you.
I do note that both of these noted messages were direct replies to you.
Craig
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia from livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
Karl
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:21 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 09:05 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
the urination predilections notwithstanding, here is one very clear explanation by Lamar in response to one of your rants...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01448.html
and of course as I pointed out on a different thread...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01633.html
so your assertion that you had no idea that nVidia drivers were on Livna is proof that it does little good to point these things out to you.
I do note that both of these noted messages were direct replies to you.
Craig
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia from
livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
---- Your statement was clear enough..."I had no idea that nvidia was on Livna" (scroll up)
You had several unambiguous messages that this was the case a week ago.
I haven't ranted 3 times and I didn't tell you 'how' to install from Livna because you never asked...you have your own crazy theories on how to install nVidia drivers and I didn't see the point of adding to your confusion.
Just a quick perusal of Livna's web site would indicate their proprietary video card driver installation methods but I do appreciate how convenient it is for you to blame others for your inabilities.
Craig
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:21 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 09:05 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
I had no idea that nvidia was on livna.
Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
the urination predilections notwithstanding, here is one very clear explanation by Lamar in response to one of your rants...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01448.html
and of course as I pointed out on a different thread...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01633.html
so your assertion that you had no idea that nVidia drivers were on Livna is proof that it does little good to point these things out to you.
I do note that both of these noted messages were direct replies to you.
Craig
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia from
livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
Your statement was clear enough..."I had no idea that nvidia was on Livna" (scroll up)
You had several unambiguous messages that this was the case a week ago.
I haven't ranted 3 times and I didn't tell you 'how' to install from Livna because you never asked...you have your own crazy theories on how to install nVidia drivers and I didn't see the point of adding to your confusion.
Just a quick perusal of Livna's web site would indicate their proprietary video card driver installation methods but I do appreciate how convenient it is for you to blame others for your inabilities.
Craig
No Craig, what I need to know is what day and time can I get on the Livna web page?
I got a new repo just because you or someone told me how to call their web page and it downloads the Fedora package. It worked but the person telling me this was not sure it will work again. Some change is being made in their web page. I will test that and try to get on their web page to find the information on a yum install of Nvidia. Wish me luck. I will be back after trying.
Karl
Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:21 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig White wrote:
On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 09:05 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:52 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
> I had no idea that nvidia was on livna. > Just proving that you pay no attention. You've been told that before, quite a few times, and even argued about it with those who told you.
That is NOT true! At least do not piss on me for things I did not do. Or, show me where I said anything like that!
the urination predilections notwithstanding, here is one very clear explanation by Lamar in response to one of your rants...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01448.html
and of course as I pointed out on a different thread...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01633.html
so your assertion that you had no idea that nVidia drivers were on Livna is proof that it does little good to point these things out to you.
I do note that both of these noted messages were direct replies to you.
Craig
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia
from livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
Your statement was clear enough..."I had no idea that nvidia was on Livna" (scroll up)
You had several unambiguous messages that this was the case a week ago.
I haven't ranted 3 times and I didn't tell you 'how' to install from Livna because you never asked...you have your own crazy theories on how to install nVidia drivers and I didn't see the point of adding to your confusion.
Just a quick perusal of Livna's web site would indicate their proprietary video card driver installation methods but I do appreciate how convenient it is for you to blame others for your inabilities.
Craig
No Craig, what I need to know is what day and time can I get on the Livna web page?
I got a new repo just because you or someone told me how to call their web page and it downloads the Fedora package. It worked but the person telling me this was not sure it will work again. Some change is being made in their web page. I will test that and try to get on their web page to find the information on a yum install of Nvidia. Wish me luck. I will be back after trying.
Karl
I find their web page has been fixed. I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place. But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Karl
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Karl
2008/1/21, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com:
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find
on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
it is a link in the front page of Livna....
Antonio M wrote:
2008/1/21, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com:
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find
on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
it is a link in the front page of Livna....
You are lucky. I pushed everything I could see to push and never got that page up. So I guess I am too stupid to push the right button.
If you come up in the page that google has on top, what do you need to press to get to this page. I just missed it.
Karl
On Jan 21, 2008 6:08 AM, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Antonio M wrote:
2008/1/21, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com:
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find
on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
it is a link in the front page of Livna....
You are lucky. I pushed everything I could see to push and never got
that page up. So I guess I am too stupid to push the right button.
If you come up in the page that google has on top, what do you need to press to get to this page. I just missed it.
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Karl - try these commands, no need to browse livna's web page
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-8.rpm rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-livna
yum install kmod-nvidia
good luck. ~af
Aldo Foot wrote:
On Jan 21, 2008 6:08 AM, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Antonio M wrote:
2008/1/21, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com:
Michael Schwendt wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I find their web page has been fixed.
Works fine as always.
I could have got a fedora 8 rpm just by clicking the right place.
Whether that works depends on *your* installation. The web page just serves a file and the proper file type description. It is not responsible for starting your system's installer program.
But never found a thing on yum install. Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
Haha, right at the top is a prominent link to the documentation about the Livna-packaged drivers for ATI- and Nvidia-chipsets. If you ignore that or don't read more than the first line, well, that is your decision. ;)
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find
on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
it is a link in the front page of Livna....
You are lucky. I pushed everything I could see to push and never got
that page up. So I guess I am too stupid to push the right button.
If you come up in the page that google has on top, what do you need to press to get to this page. I just missed it.
Karl
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Karl - try these commands, no need to browse livna's web page
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-8.rpm rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-livna
yum install kmod-nvidia
good luck. ~af
Thanks yes those worked just fine. Clear and easy to read language. This makes rday furious!
Karl
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Aldo Foot wrote:
Karl - try these commands, no need to browse livna's web page
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-8.rpm rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-livna
yum install kmod-nvidia
good luck. ~af
Thanks yes those worked just fine. Clear and easy to read language.
This makes rday furious!
Ridiculous. The first command has been posted before. The second command, manually importing the GPG key, is not needed because Yum does that automatically as soon as you install from that repo. And the third line, the yum command, is the same as at: http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
;o)
On Jan 21, 2008 3:31 PM, Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Aldo Foot wrote:
Karl - try these commands, no need to browse livna's web page
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-8.rpm rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-livna
yum install kmod-nvidia
good luck. ~af
Thanks yes those worked just fine. Clear and easy to read language.
This makes rday furious!
Ridiculous. The first command has been posted before. The second command, manually importing the GPG key, is not needed because Yum does that automatically as soon as you install from that repo. And the third line, the yum command, is the same as at: http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
;o)
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Yes. We've seen this commands lots of times. Experienced users may know them by heart. But Karl is learning; we all were newbies once and a little clear help does not hurt anyone... my hands did not hurt at all when I typed those commands.
On another note I cannot see the benefit of antagonizing Karl indefinitely. What's the point? is it some form of entertainment?
~af
Aldo Foot wrote:
On another note I cannot see the benefit of antagonizing Karl indefinitely. What's the point? is it some form of entertainment?
I suspect it is due to multiple experienced folks having tried to help him and having him *not* follow their advice and his *not* responding with requested information and then being told they are "stupid" or "not helpful" it gets tiring, and frustrating.
I suspect that those equally experienced folks don't like to fail. That is why the continue to try at times...and that is why, failing success, make their feelings known.
I feel those experienced folks should realize that when he says "you're (or people are not his) are not helping me" what he really is saying "I'm not getting what you are saying...so it isn't helpful". It would be nice if he would acknowledge the attempts to help....but....
Anyway, time to put the filters back in place and enjoy life.
Ed Greshko wrote:
Aldo Foot wrote:
On another note I cannot see the benefit of antagonizing Karl indefinitely. What's the point? is it some form of entertainment?
I suspect it is due to multiple experienced folks having tried to help him and having him *not* follow their advice and his *not* responding with requested information and then being told they are "stupid" or "not helpful" it gets tiring, and frustrating. I suspect that those equally experienced folks don't like to fail. That is why the continue to try at times...and that is why, failing success, make their feelings known.
I feel those experienced folks should realize that when he says "you're (or people are not his) are not
What the heck was that?????
"or people are not his"???? What in blue blazes is that supposed to mean? Are you a moron or what?
Why didn't you write what you meant? "Or people on this list" instead if what you did....the two don't even come close! Don't you proof read what you type? And don't go blaming it on lack of coffee!
helping me" what he really is saying "I'm not getting what you are saying...so it isn't helpful". It would be nice if he would acknowledge the attempts to help....but....
Anyway, time to put the filters back in place and enjoy life.
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 08:17 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
Aldo Foot wrote:
I feel those experienced folks should realize that when he says "you're (or people are not his) are not
What the heck was that?????
"or people are not his"???? What in blue blazes is that supposed to mean? Are you a moron or what?
Why didn't you write what you meant? "Or people on this list" instead of what you did....the two don't even come close! Don't you proof read what you type? And don't go blaming it on lack of coffee!
helping me" what he really is saying "I'm not getting what you are saying...so it isn't helpful". It would be nice if he would
Aldo, since Karl continually switches threads, you may have missed the bazillion attempts to get Karl to do the rpm import thing regarding the keys, as well as the yum install of the files. So, when he -finally- does it and gets all elated that it works, he then gives the finger to the rest of the list who have tried to tell him just how to do it. It's galling to the people who tried to correctly help before, and they reply saying so. You ask Karl why he didn't just say -thanks- to everyone.
He won't because, IMHO, I think he's actually the 15 year old nephew or niece of the real Karl, and has stolen his identity. The REAL Karl, with a Doctorate in EE and a million dollars in the bank, would know better.
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 15:59 -0800, Aldo Foot wrote:
On another note I cannot see the benefit of antagonizing Karl indefinitely. What's the point? is it some form of entertainment?
Well, we could all ignore him, but he'd bitch that nobody helped him. And he'd post crap that others might take on face value because nobody countered it. We could try helping, but he doesn't handle that with good grace, either. About the only thing left over is to convince him, one way or another, to stop. Asking him to stop hasn't worked, and that leaves making him want to go elsewhere as the final alternative.
On 22/01/2008, Aldo Foot lunixer@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 21, 2008 3:31 PM, Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Aldo Foot wrote:
Karl - try these commands, no need to browse livna's web page
rpm -ivh http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-8.rpm rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-livna
yum install kmod-nvidia
good luck. ~af
Thanks yes those worked just fine. Clear and easy to read language.
This makes rday furious!
Ridiculous. The first command has been posted before. The second command, manually importing the GPG key, is not needed because Yum does that automatically as soon as you install from that repo. And the third line, the yum command, is the same as at:
http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/LivnaSwitcher
;o)
Yes. We've seen this commands lots of times. Experienced users may know them by heart. But Karl is learning;
This thread turns into an even worse joke. So, a brief comment only. Karl has installed from Livna multiple times before by either clicking on the package at Livna's web page and installing it that way or by filling his own livna.repo file with data from other sources (he has done that and failed because of not paying attention closely enough or because of insufficient research and bad sources). Enabling and installing from Livna is a step he has done multiple times before with vlc and other packages. However, another problem has turnt up afterwards. He pointed out again and again that he doesn't know how to install the nvidia driver pkgs from Livna despite being pointed to Livna's web page, even with the direct link. Are you saying you need to read the page for him because he's unable to do it himself?
we all were newbies once and a little clear help does not hurt anyone...
Surely not. However, the question was not how to install it, but where to find the Livna documentation? He even claimed the docs would be missing. Quote:
| But never found a thing on yum install. | Nothing zilch. They may not know either.
This is insulting to the people at Livna.
my hands did not hurt at all when I typed those commands.
You can't be there to help him every time he refuses to read a web page that contains all the information already. It is more important to teach where to find the documentation.
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:23:11 +0100 Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
It is more important to teach where to find the documentation.
As I mentioned before, I find it quite .... unusual that someone who claims to have a Ph.D. degree appears to be absolutely incapable of doing the simplest research, or understanding documentation that contains the information that he apparently wants but doesn't spell it out explicitly in a step one, step two manner.
For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, a Ph.D. is basically a degree certifying that the holder is qualified to do research. In the words of someone whose identity I can't recall at the moment, "capable of learning what nobody yet knows."
So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.? Most of the Ph.D.'s that I know, including an EE who ultimately decided that he would rather be a plumber, are among the sharpest folks around and a downright pleasure and privilege to interact with.
On Jan 21, 2008 5:49 PM, Frank Cox theatre@sasktel.net wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:23:11 +0100 Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
It is more important to teach where to find the documentation.
As I mentioned before, I find it quite .... unusual that someone who claims to have a Ph.D. degree appears to be absolutely incapable of doing the simplest research, or understanding documentation that contains the information that he apparently wants but doesn't spell it out explicitly in a step one, step two manner.
For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, a Ph.D. is basically a degree certifying that the holder is qualified to do research. In the words of someone whose identity I can't recall at the moment, "capable of learning what nobody yet knows."
So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.? Most of the Ph.D.'s that I know, including an EE who ultimately decided that he would rather be a plumber, are among the sharpest folks around and a downright pleasure and privilege to interact with.
-- MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
I think a possible explanation is that there a different learning styles. For instance Visual Spatial Learners learn by visualization and not by reading. For some folks reading is quite a chore. Some people "see things in their heads" and reading requires some mental translation. Think of the student in a classroom who's watching squirrels out the window ten minutes into lecture. But once he goes to the physics lab. he's unstoppable. I think Einstein himself had this sort of problem...
~af
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 18:25 -0800, Aldo Foot wrote:
On Jan 21, 2008 5:49 PM, Frank Cox theatre@sasktel.net wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:23:11 +0100 Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
> It is more important > to teach where to find the documentation. As I mentioned before, I find it quite .... unusual that someone who claims to have a Ph.D. degree appears to be absolutely incapable of doing the simplest research, or understanding documentation that contains the information that he apparently wants but doesn't spell it out explicitly in a step one, step two manner. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, a Ph.D. is basically a degree certifying that the holder is qualified to do research. In the words of someone whose identity I can't recall at the moment, "capable of learning what nobody yet knows." So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.? Most of the Ph.D.'s that I know, including an EE who ultimately decided that he would rather be a plumber, are among the sharpest folks around and a downright pleasure and privilege to interact with. -- MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
I think a possible explanation is that there a different learning styles. For instance Visual Spatial Learners learn by visualization and not by reading. For some folks reading is quite a chore. Some people "see things in their heads" and reading requires some mental translation.
Inmates particularly fall into those two categories. It's why the prison system fails so abysmally when trying to use traditional classroom materials. I agree 100% with your observation and it is our core-mission-statement towards using other methods to teach within our DOC's. OTOH, the point being made quite clearly is that the average Doctorate holder doesn't blindingly suffer from either of these two.
The Doctorate degree is like a guarantee that the holder of it reads quite handily with better than average comprehension and is capable of independent research, study and application of the subject matter being researched. Then the research has to be presented in written form (the Doctorate Thesis) which clearly presents the results of the research, which is then reviewed and held to a Doctorate review standard for final approval by a certified Board of Examiners. That's the point being made here. Something doesn't jive.
Think of the student in a classroom who's watching squirrels out the window ten minutes into lecture. But once he goes to the physics lab. he's unstoppable. I think Einstein himself had this sort of problem...
Wasn't his Doctorate honorary? There is no mention of a Doctorate in the Wikipedia. Yet Einstein did collaborate within teams. Teamwork. That's central and crucial to advanced thinking for the likes of an Einstein. The cartoon approach, with Einstein sitting in a bathtub and seeing E=MC2 on a soap bubble, didn't happen. :) Ric
On Tuesday 22 January 2008, Ric Moore wrote:
Wasn't his Doctorate honorary? There is no mention of a Doctorate in the Wikipedia. Yet Einstein did collaborate within teams. Teamwork. That's central and crucial to advanced thinking for the likes of an Einstein. The cartoon approach, with Einstein sitting in a bathtub and seeing E=MC2 on a soap bubble, didn't happen. :) Ric
Paul Harvey once did a 'Rest of the Story' on Einstein. According to this piece, Einstein was looking for 'music' in the universe, and that led to relativity theory; what is known is that Einstein loved his violin and was quite good at it.
And that is actually halfway on topic, because there is a group of people who are doing this tech for audio and music production, and, unfortunately, F8 is proving to be less stable for DAW stuff than F7 was. I use an F7 DAW weekly in production of a radio broadcast; I just have started using F8 on my laptop with a Plantronics USB headset for doing the same.
There are quite serious issues trying to do it on F8 (to be fair, consumer sound cards are horrible, and the Intel HDA in both machines stutters like crazy when using JACK apps, which is why I use the Plantronics headset on the laptop, and an Echo Layla on the desktop); the biggest is that, when I master the final CD audio file with JAMin (PlanetCCRMA's package of it), I can hear the audio only when JAMin is bypassed; if it's in the loop I hear no sound, but when exporting through it from Ardour, the exported wave file is fine.
This works on F7, but not F8. I haven't had time to file a useful bug report; I have a JAMin setup that I did on the F7 box that produces the processing I need already, so I process 'deaf' (I actually had written 'blind' but decided in this context 'deaf' was more accurate!) but then listen to the resulting audio with Audacity after stopping JACK. I would love to see Audacity's JACK support work right, but it doesn't seem to be getting much priority with the audacity developers.
Also, I get more dropouts (xruns) on F8 than on F7, but since the two machines are not directly comparable (and since my laptop is highly unstable with the RT kernel) I don't think this is an F8 problem. After I upgrade the F7 desktop to F8 (yes, I am going to do this, since I do know that I can get the production done on my F8 laptop, and I do actually enjoy tinkering enough that I run this bleeding edge stuff; if I wanted a stable Linux DAW I'd shell out the clams for Fervent's Studio to Go! product) I may revise my opinion.
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 05:38 -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
On Tuesday 22 January 2008, Ric Moore wrote:
Wasn't his Doctorate honorary? There is no mention of a Doctorate in the Wikipedia. Yet Einstein did collaborate within teams. Teamwork. That's central and crucial to advanced thinking for the likes of an Einstein. The cartoon approach, with Einstein sitting in a bathtub and seeing E=MC2 on a soap bubble, didn't happen. :) Ric
Paul Harvey once did a 'Rest of the Story' on Einstein. According to this piece, Einstein was looking for 'music' in the universe, and that led to relativity theory; what is known is that Einstein loved his violin and was quite good at it.
And that is actually halfway on topic, because there is a group of people who are doing this tech for audio and music production, and, unfortunately, F8 is proving to be less stable for DAW stuff than F7 was. I use an F7 DAW weekly in production of a radio broadcast; I just have started using F8 on my laptop with a Plantronics USB headset for doing the same.
There are quite serious issues trying to do it on F8 (to be fair, consumer sound cards are horrible, and the Intel HDA in both machines stutters like crazy when using JACK apps, which is why I use the Plantronics headset on the laptop, and an Echo Layla on the desktop); the biggest is that, when I master the final CD audio file with JAMin (PlanetCCRMA's package of it), I can hear the audio only when JAMin is bypassed; if it's in the loop I hear no sound, but when exporting through it from Ardour, the exported wave file is fine.
This works on F7, but not F8. I haven't had time to file a useful bug report; I have a JAMin setup that I did on the F7 box that produces the processing I need already, so I process 'deaf' (I actually had written 'blind' but decided in this context 'deaf' was more accurate!) but then listen to the resulting audio with Audacity after stopping JACK. I would love to see Audacity's JACK support work right, but it doesn't seem to be getting much priority with the audacity developers.
Also, I get more dropouts (xruns) on F8 than on F7, but since the two machines are not directly comparable (and since my laptop is highly unstable with the RT kernel) I don't think this is an F8 problem. After I upgrade the F7 desktop to F8 (yes, I am going to do this, since I do know that I can get the production done on my F8 laptop, and I do actually enjoy tinkering enough that I run this bleeding edge stuff; if I wanted a stable Linux DAW I'd shell out the clams for Fervent's Studio to Go! product) I may revise my opinion.
Lamar, please keep us in the loop on the issue. I'm still running FC7 and recently have been experiencing some audio statics and an annoying loss of video playback quality. There's nothing I would like more is to see Fedora eventually become "slightly" split, where RH could go back to offering a box set that was just a tad more stable and usable by Joe Lunchbucket, especially with regard to audio/visual production and usage.
$39 for a nice box, DVD and some simple printed install instructions. Rahul's group would have more money for more personnel and devel. It's a thought. This group doing the critical beta-beta testing has jobs for life, no prob on that score! My 2 cents, Ric
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 05:38 -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
I use an F7 DAW weekly in production of a radio broadcast; I just have started using F8 on my laptop with a Plantronics USB headset for doing the same.
There are quite serious issues trying to do it on F8 (to be fair, consumer sound cards are horrible, and the Intel HDA in both machines stutters like crazy when using JACK apps, which is why I use the Plantronics headset on the laptop, and an Echo Layla on the desktop); the biggest is that, when I master the final CD audio file with JAMin (PlanetCCRMA's package of it), I can hear the audio only when JAMin is bypassed; if it's in the loop I hear no sound, but when exporting through it from Ardour, the exported wave file is fine.
This works on F7, but not F8. I haven't had time to file a useful bug report; I have a JAMin setup that I did on the F7 box that produces the processing I need already, so I process 'deaf' (I actually had written 'blind' but decided in this context 'deaf' was more accurate!) but then listen to the resulting audio with Audacity after stopping JACK. I would love to see Audacity's JACK support work right, but it doesn't seem to be getting much priority with the audacity developers.
Also, I get more dropouts (xruns) on F8 than on F7, but since the two machines are not directly comparable (and since my laptop is highly unstable with the RT kernel) I don't think this is an F8 problem. After I upgrade the F7 desktop to F8 (yes, I am going to do this, since I do know that I can get the production done on my F8 laptop, and I do actually enjoy tinkering enough that I run this bleeding edge stuff; if I wanted a stable Linux DAW I'd shell out the clams for Fervent's Studio to Go! product) I may revise my opinion.
Lamar, what I would REALLY love to see is a "glossary" of terms and applications that covers what is available to Linux in terms of audio "stuff". Something for the half-wit in all of us that would like to understand what does what to whom, within the audio/music realm available to us. I've never understood the "Jack" concept other than it is another layer of the audio process. What it does, why I would choose it or parts of it, is beyond me. Sure, been to the site, but I just don't grok what I'm reading there. Plain English would be really good.
Imagine I'm trying to teach basic Linux and want to demo musical applications (while disguising the fact that I'm a complete doof) to a crowd of teen-aged wanna be hip hoppers already into minor criminal acts. <grins> The carrot; no recording anything until (the stick) the student has learned to do the recording and mixing first with some measurable understanding of the process, which the teacher covertly needs to possess as well! Thanks, Ric
Aldo Foot:
I think a possible explanation is that there a different learning styles. For instance Visual Spatial Learners learn by visualization and not by reading. For some folks reading is quite a chore. Some people "see things in their heads" and reading requires some mental translation.
Ric Moore:
Inmates particularly fall into those two categories. It's why the prison system fails so abysmally when trying to use traditional classroom materials. I agree 100% with your observation and it is our core-mission-statement towards using other methods to teach within our DOC's.
It goes back further than that, in the initial education of people. I spent years working in schools, many of them working with students who didn't fit into the way the school worked (schools mentality is that everyone is the same, we'll pretend they're the same, we'll try and force them to be the same, and we'll all teach them the same, even when it doesn't work). They'd do badly, cause trouble, get in trouble, etc.
To be honest, I preferred working with those people. They were much more interesting, and generally much more enthusiastic about being involved in what they were learning, once you'd found their niche. I liked the non-academic work, we actually *did* stuff. And I think it's far less a waste of time than the academic work I was put through, we were all pressed into the english, high level maths, and sciences, told we needed them for further education, and it was all a lie.
On 22/01/2008, Aldo Foot lunixer@gmail.com wrote:
I think a possible explanation is that there a different learning styles.
Yes, there are different ones. But what is Karl's? He doesn't appear to be the quiet self-teaching learner either. He's been crying for help on a public mailing-list, blaming the existing documentation resources because he prefers to ignore instructions completely instead of following them painstakingly. And if people enter a dialogue with him to give him specific advice, as soon as the solution to a problem is found, the subject is changed and acknowledgement is missing. There is a pattern, too. It's only a few messages later when old complaints are refreshed without recapitulating the contents of previous messages and the conclusions within.
The behaviour is not unique to him. There are other people on other communication channels, who apply similar strategies (with the desire to keep a topic alive as long as possible, pretending that there is no help and that something is too difficult to use). I once met somebody who never executed any of the trivial commands pointed out to him, not even when explaining what they do. Consequently, the output of the commands was missing always. Instead, he replied with one-line responses like "didn't work either". When asked to run a command and post the output, he replied with long and confusing descriptions of strange trouble-shooting attempts, which either didn't fix his problem or made it worse. Only after weeks he pointed out that a "good friend" told him not to run any commands recommended "on the Internet", so he would not be hacked and that "he should find it very suspicious if he were asked to run 'su'". For some people it's too easy to say "still doesn't work" and be done for the next day/week, also after not trying out a fix at all. Even commercial supporters will fail in such cases, because the final acknowledgement will be missing. The problem is understood, the fix is known, but the user is not willing to confirm it or to admit own mistakes.
For instance Visual Spatial Learners learn by visualization and not by reading.
Then a mailing-list is the completely wrong medium. I would rather visit a local LUG or consult a local trainer.
Think of the student in a classroom who's watching squirrels out the window ten minutes into lecture. But once he goes to the physics lab. he's unstoppable.
Doesn't apply here. The squirrels have taken over the lab, too.
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 12:09 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:
The behaviour is not unique to him. There are other people on other communication channels, who apply similar strategies (with the desire to keep a topic alive as long as possible, pretending that there is no help and that something is too difficult to use). I once met somebody who never executed any of the trivial commands pointed out to him, not even when explaining what they do. Consequently, the output of the commands was missing always. Instead, he replied with one-line responses like "didn't work either". When asked to run a command and post the output, he replied with long and confusing descriptions of strange trouble-shooting attempts, which either didn't fix his problem or made it worse. Only after weeks he pointed out that a "good friend" told him not to run any commands recommended "on the Internet",
Whilst there are some that are over-cautious, I think there are plenty that are just deliberate time wasters. They'll invent problems, and arguments, for no reason other than to waste other people's time.
I'm beginning to suspect Karl of being a better than average troll, rather than being the nitwit that he portrays.
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 19:49 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.?
I wonder if it was simple eons ago he got it, and that's he's no-longer up to the task. Of course we don't know whether he really has, or spent 15 years trying to get it, scraped through, or obtained it with flying colours...
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 23:47 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 19:49 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.?
I wonder if it was simple eons ago he got it, and that's he's no-longer up to the task. Of course we don't know whether he really has, or spent 15 years trying to get it, scraped through, or obtained it with flying colours...
Just an observation on my part, and certainly not meant to be a taking of sides of any kind here, but, my experiences have been that "today's" Ph.D can in no way whatsoever be compared to "yesterday's" Ph.D. In the last decade I've worked with several dozen "doctors", many of which still needed written instructions on how to use the restroom.
I've found that even a Masters earned 40 or more years ago "out-weighs" a ten year old or younger doctorate by roughly 2 to 1.
Andy
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 14:28 +0100, Andrew Kelly wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 23:47 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 19:49 -0600, Frank Cox wrote:
So how in the name of the great white whale does someone of Karl's obvious limited abilities manage to get a Ph.D.?
I wonder if it was simple eons ago he got it, and that's he's no-longer up to the task. Of course we don't know whether he really has, or spent 15 years trying to get it, scraped through, or obtained it with flying colours...
Just an observation on my part, and certainly not meant to be a taking of sides of any kind here, but, my experiences have been that "today's" Ph.D can in no way whatsoever be compared to "yesterday's" Ph.D. In the last decade I've worked with several dozen "doctors", many of which still needed written instructions on how to use the restroom.
I've found that even a Masters earned 40 or more years ago "out-weighs" a ten year old or younger doctorate by roughly 2 to 1.
Andy's
I don't know about other disciplines but in the sciences,, engineering and especially computer science current PH D's are much more capable to handle the current technical world than Phd's of old.
Especially PHD's like me who graduated before the transistor was invented. -- ======================================================================= Any stone in your boot always migrates against the pressure gradient to exactly the point of most pressure. -- Milt Barber ======================================================================= Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
Aaron Konstam wrote:
I don't know about other disciplines but in the sciences,, engineering and especially computer science current PH D's are much more capable to handle the current technical world than Phd's of old.
Especially PHD's like me who graduated before the transistor was invented.
But you probably understand better than a lot of people here how useless detailed knowledge of how to fix F8-specific problems will be in another year.
Words by Aldo Foot [Mon, Jan 21, 2008 at 03:59:05PM -0800]:
On Jan 21, 2008 3:31 PM, Michael Schwendt mschwendt@gmail.com wrote:
(...)
On another note I cannot see the benefit of antagonizing Karl indefinitely. What's the point? is it some form of entertainment?
Sure.
On 21/01/2008, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
The Livna web page is very strange. There is no marking I can find
on the fedora home page that says a thing about nvidia zilch!
Uhm, what do you refer to? "The Livna web page" or "the fedora home page"? I have no idea what pages you visit.
The top page for Livna is: http://rpm.livna.org
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:21:11 -0700 Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I am supposed to KNOW this somehow.
It's called doing your own research and thinking, Karl.
Nobody ever told me how to install Livna. I ran across a few mentions of it way-back-when, did a few Google searches, read a web page or two, and started using Livna.
There is an implicit assumption that you should do as much research as you can on your own before jumping up and asking questions on a mailing list like this.
Nobody is here to hold your and and baby you through any procedure.
Do some independent research (Google is very useful for this) and do some reading. Ask for clarifications, but only AFTER you have done this, and only if you have further questions that are not addressed by your previous reading.
A lot (most, almost all) of your questions could be answered by you, yourself, independently, if you just do some research.
You have an odd compulsion to continually remind us that you have a Ph.D. Karl, one of the things that you learn, the main thing that you learn, when you study for a Ph.D. is how to conduct independent research. That's the point of a Ph.D. degree!
Have you really forgotten everything that you ever knew about how to conduct research and how to do independent learning? If so, then I truly feel sorry for you; it must be a terrible feeling to lose one's faculties like that and I hope I never find myself in that sort of a situation.
On the other hand, if you do still remember what you learned back in the "old days at school", now is the time to apply those lessons. Do independent research, do some reading, do some thinking and try things out when you have an understanding of how they work. Don't just blindly jump off of cliffs and hope for a soft landing at the bottom -- when you don't understand enough about how something works to know what the possible consequences are, then DON'T DO IT until after you have done the research required.
Think, Karl. Do the work. Do the research. Do what it takes. Then, after you have done all of that and have reached a situation where you still have some doubt, you can ask questions that are both intelligent and worth someone else's time to answer for you.
"It broke. Fix it for me, mommy." That might work and may even be reasonable when you're two years old, Karl, but not now.
Karl Larsen wrote:
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia from livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
You've either missed or forgotten something very, very basic in this process. You click on the URL for the right livna-release-xxx rpm, (and I know the link has gone by several times in related posts recently but I'm too lazy to look them up for you). The browser will offer to install it for you - or you could download the rpm and install it manually. After doing this you will have the livna repo added to your yum configuration and can use 'yum search nvidia' to find nvidia related things in configured repos and 'yum install ....' to install packages you find.
Les Mikesell wrote:
Karl Larsen wrote:
All three of your rants fail to mention how you get the Nvidia from livna or freshrpms. I am supposed to KNOW this somehow. I could not use livna because I had no way to get it.
You've either missed or forgotten something very, very basic in this process. You click on the URL for the right livna-release-xxx rpm, (and I know the link has gone by several times in related posts recently but I'm too lazy to look them up for you). The browser will offer to install it for you - or you could download the rpm and install it manually. After doing this you will have the livna repo added to your yum configuration and can use 'yum search nvidia' to find nvidia related things in configured repos and 'yum install ....' to install packages you find.
Should I install ALL the files it finds? Here is what I got and it is impossible to do anything.
[root@k5di ~]# yum search nvidia livna 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00 fedora 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00 updates 100% |=========================| 2.3 kB 00:00 Excluding Packages in global exclude list Finished xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-legacy.i386 : NVIDIA's legacy proprietary display driver for NVIDIA graphic cards kmod-nvidia-96xx.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i586 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-devel.i386 : Development files for xorg-x11-drv-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia.i386 : NVIDIA's proprietary display driver for NVIDIA graphic cards kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i586 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i586 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i586 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia-96xx.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel libXNVCtrl.i386 : Library providing the NV-CONTROL API kmod-nvidia.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i586 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-96xx-devel.i386 : Development files for xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-96xx kmod-nvidia-96xx.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-legacy-devel.i386 : Development files for xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-legacy kmod-nvidia-96xx.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i586 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 xorg-x11-drv-nvidia.i386 : NVIDIA's proprietary display driver for NVIDIA graphic cards kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.1-49.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8 kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i586 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 kmod-nvidia-96xx-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE libXNVCtrl-devel.i386 : Development files for libXNVCtrl kmod-nvidia-legacy-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel nvclock.i386 : Utility that allows users to overclock NVIDIA based video cards kmod-nvidia.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-96xx.i386 : NVIDIA's 96xx series proprietary display driver for NVIDIA graphic cards kmod-nvidia.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i586 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-96xx-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 kmod-nvidia-96xx-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-96xx kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 xorg-x11-drv-nvidia.i386 : NVIDIA's proprietary display driver for NVIDIA graphic cards slmodem-alsa.i386 : ALSA Userspace application for several SmartLink softmodems. kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i686 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-devel.i386 : Development files for xorg-x11-drv-nvidia kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-96xx-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i586 : nvidia-96xx kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i586 : nvidia kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i586 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i586 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia-legacy kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-42.fc8.i586 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8 kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-49.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia.i586 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.8-63.fc8.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.8-63.fc8 kmod-nvidia-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.1-42.fc8PAE kmod-nvidia-PAE.i686 : Metapackage which tracks in nvidia kernel module for newest kernel-PAE kmod-nvidia-legacy-2.6.23.9-85.fc8.i686 : nvidia-legacy kernel module(s) for 2.6.23.9-85.fc8 [root@k5di ~]#
I can't tell which is for my F8.
Karl
Karl Larsen wrote:
You've either missed or forgotten something very, very basic in this process. You click on the URL for the right livna-release-xxx rpm, (and I know the link has gone by several times in related posts recently but I'm too lazy to look them up for you). The browser will offer to install it for you - or you could download the rpm and install it manually. After doing this you will have the livna repo added to your yum configuration and can use 'yum search nvidia' to find nvidia related things in configured repos and 'yum install ....' to install packages you find.
Should I install ALL the files it finds? Here is what I got and it is impossible to do anything.
[root@k5di ~]# yum search nvidia livna 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00 fedora 100% |=========================| 2.1 kB 00:00 updates 100%
[big list deleted...]
I can't tell which is for my F8.
That's the reason you use yum. It will match up with your installed kernel and pick up any dependencies.
yum install kmod-nvidia
should be all it takes (advice that has previously been mentioned recently...).
Or, from the rpm.livna.org page, follow the "Why switch to the Livna-packaged drivers" link near the top, then read the section towards the bottom of that page under "Com, Tell Me, How Do I Use This?".
On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Craig White craigwhite@azapple.com wrote:
... you don't need freshrpms to get nVidia dynamic installation, livna has them too.
with Livna, you only need to run...
yum install kmod-nvidia
they couldn't make it any easier...
When I tried this I ran into the following lossage:
Downloading Packages: ... http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/8/i386/xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-libs-173.14.12-1.lvn8...: [Errno -1] Package does not match intended download
It tried a bunch of other mirrors and failed. This happened on about 3 of 5 packages. I retried 'yum install kmod-nvidia' several times over two days and eventually it worked for all of the packages. How could a repo fail in this way?
Julius
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 18:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8. I can get zero help from this list
At this point, I say GO FUCK YOURSELF, THAT'S A LOAD OF BULLSHIT! You've had no end of help from this list, far more than others, far more than you deserve. The thing that's useless is YOU, not the help.
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8. I can get zero help from this list ...
i believe the phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy" is what you're looking for here, karl.
rday --
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ========================================================================
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 18:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Hi Jim, well I really have had nothing but trouble with F8. I can
get zero help from this list so I will just relax and enjoy F7. As for your problem, nmd what ever that is must be working :-)
On F8 the sound is failing and no known cause for this. I will soon
not be working on anything. I think it is a big problem.
---- Karl,
Do you antagonize everyone, everywhere or did you just select Fedora-list to practice your craft?
Craig
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 04:15 -0700, Craig White wrote:
Do you antagonize everyone, everywhere or did you just select Fedora-list to practice your craft?
If u notice the signature for Karl's msgs u will see that he is also a ham radio operator, K5DI.
In 2004, as the Contest Manager for QRP ARCI, an international ham radio organization devoted solely to low power operations, I well remember Karl.
Thankfully his goals changed or he discovered the difficulty in amassing contest points using low power high speed code in a limited timeframe with extensive documentation requirements & against other world class operators. Something caused him and his emails to disappear.
Perhaps, that is when he took up abusing Linux. I had only a short introduction to Karl.
But, four years later, I STILL remember him. I recognized the name & call sign immediately when I first subscribed to this list.
The memory is not fond but it is durable.
Tom, WB5KHC CW only operator, 33 years
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 07:52 -0600, Tom Owens wrote:
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 04:15 -0700, Craig White wrote:
Do you antagonize everyone, everywhere or did you just select Fedora-list to practice your craft?
If u notice the signature for Karl's msgs u will see that he is also a ham radio operator, K5DI.
In 2004, as the Contest Manager for QRP ARCI, an international ham radio organization devoted solely to low power operations, I well remember Karl.
Thankfully his goals changed or he discovered the difficulty in amassing contest points using low power high speed code in a limited timeframe with extensive documentation requirements & against other world class operators. Something caused him and his emails to disappear.
Perhaps, that is when he took up abusing Linux. I had only a short introduction to Karl.
But, four years later, I STILL remember him. I recognized the name & call sign immediately when I first subscribed to this list.
The memory is not fond but it is durable.
---- ;-)
well then I guess that this is a spread the wealth kind of thing.
Craig
<snip>
I can get zero help from this list so I will just relax and enjoy F7.
<snip>
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Amazing. Your memory seriously betrays you on this point. Either that or contrary to the archives which DO NOT lie, you do. I'm not in a position to conclude either way as I don't know you personally. If it's the former, I suggest you put a permanent sticky note on your monitor that says "People on fedora-list have helped me many times in the past. Be polite when posting." so that your memory does not further betray you. If it's the latter, that brings into doubt everything you've ever posted on this list.
Which one is it Karl? Is your memory betraying you, or are you lying?
Jacques B.
Jacques B. wrote:
<snip>
I can get zero help from this list so I will just relax and enjoy F7.
<snip>
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Amazing. Your memory seriously betrays you on this point. Either that or contrary to the archives which DO NOT lie, you do. I'm not in a position to conclude either way as I don't know you personally. If it's the former, I suggest you put a permanent sticky note on your monitor that says "People on fedora-list have helped me many times in the past. Be polite when posting." so that your memory does not further betray you. If it's the latter, that brings into doubt everything you've ever posted on this list.
Which one is it Karl? Is your memory betraying you, or are you lying?
Jacques B.
I was mad because it was impossible for anyone to now how to fix it. I am back on F8 right now and it seems to be working fine.
Karl
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:29:28 -0700 Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
I was mad because it was impossible for anyone to now how to fix it.
Please put your hands in your pockets when you are mad. Keep them there until you are no longer mad.
I am back on F8 right now and it seems to be working fine.
Then please stop trying to fix it. If it's working and doing what you want it to, STOP NOW! You got it. Be happy now. And please, be done.
Frank Cox wrote:
Then please stop trying to fix it. If it's working and doing what you want it to, STOP NOW! You got it. Be happy now. And please, be done.
You're assuming Karl actually a) listens to anyone here, and b) understands/comprehends what we're all saying. And that's a rather large assumption on your part Frank.
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:54:27 -0700 "Ashley M. Kirchner" ashley@pcraft.com wrote:
You're assuming Karl actually a) listens to anyone here, and b)
understands/comprehends what we're all saying. And that's a rather large assumption on your part Frank.
I have simply become tired of him. He used to be slightly entertaining on odd occasions, (very slightly) but his act has run on far too long and has become simply tiresome and annoying. He has worn out his welcome as far as I'm concerned, and I know that a lot of others here feel the same way. I'm fully aware that this is not my mailing list, but when you have most of the people anywhere either mad at you or ignoring you, then it should become fairly obvious that you are doing something wrong.
I'm hoping that speaking (well, typing) clearly and simply will get through to him and that he will simply stop.
Karl Larsen wrote:
I was mad because it was impossible for anyone to now how to fix it. I am back on F8 right now and it seems to be working fine.
Karl
So you decided to venture into Fedora 8 country again. Hopefully things will go a lot smoother with the newer installation.
Regarding rpm --force, it does not work out as --replacefiles --replacepkgs does if yum pukes all over your installation because of an rpm failure during the transaction. --replacepkgs works out better and removes the bogus previous version which was already removed from your rpm database. I recently had an opportunity to test the options to rpm since during a 60 plus when compiz-gnome failed. There was a big mess to cleanup afterwards. That was with Fedora 9 to be though and not Fedora 8.
Good luck! Jim
Jim Cornette wrote:
I still have an Fedora 7 system, not because one version is problematic over another but because I downloaded the image and never burned a DVD for the other computer yet.
You don't have to burn the DVD if your computers are on the same network. I loop mounted the DVD image, created a bootable USB memory stick (The image is in the images directory, as well as instructions.) and do a HTML install. You can also burn a bootable CD, but I like to use the memory stick because it is reusable.
I have also done an install from a DVD image on a hard drive, but I have a separate partition that does not get reformatted during an install.
Mikkel
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
I still have an Fedora 7 system, not because one version is problematic over another but because I downloaded the image and never burned a DVD for the other computer yet.
You don't have to burn the DVD if your computers are on the
News from the Idiot. I am now on F8 and the sound works fine. I re-installed pulseaudio lacking the one link. Both VLC and Skype have good audio now.
There are 6 pulseaudio rpm's on the DVD for F8. You do not want to remove them. It will ruin your audio even when not using pulseaudio. I guess the general rule is not to remove ANY rpm's.
Karl
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
I still have an Fedora 7 system, not because one version is problematic over another but because I downloaded the image and never burned a DVD for the other computer yet.
You don't have to burn the DVD if your computers are on the same network. I loop mounted the DVD image, created a bootable USB memory stick (The image is in the images directory, as well as instructions.) and do a HTML install. You can also burn a bootable CD, but I like to use the memory stick because it is reusable.
I have also done an install from a DVD image on a hard drive, but I have a separate partition that does not get reformatted during an install.
Mikkel
Thanks for pointing out the additional options. My wife put all of my accessories away and I only recently found the DVD burner. The other computers are here and there so a DVD is he best option since they vary with manufacturer. I like the USB stick idea and will investigate it later. I guess I'm getting less enthusiastic about downloading a DVD so often. I upgraded some Internet available computers from F7 to F8. Since people refer to not being able to upgrade with F8 and need to do a clean installation, I see no hurry to burn a DVD. The target computers are upgrades from several years ago, from memory around 2004 and going strong.
I truly would like to see an upgrade which offered new packages for installation instead of just doin a straight upgrade and not offering the improvements/changes.
Jim
Jim Cornette wrote:
Thanks for pointing out the additional options. My wife put all of my accessories away and I only recently found the DVD burner. The other computers are here and there so a DVD is he best option since they vary with manufacturer.
I am not sure I follow this. I upgraded a Toshiba laptop and a home-brew desktop using the USB stick and the DVD .iso loop mounted so my web server could serve it out. I think you can serve out the DVD image directly, but this way the server, and not the install machine, processed the DVD image.
I like the USB stick idea and will investigate it later.
The USB stick takes the place of the boot CD. It does not have to be that big. You do not have to put the DVD image on it.
I guess I'm getting less enthusiastic about downloading a DVD so often. I upgraded some Internet available computers from F7 to F8. Since people refer to not being able to upgrade with F8 and need to do a clean installation, I see no hurry to burn a DVD. The target computers are upgrades from several years ago, from memory around 2004 and going strong.
I have done a yum upgrade in the past. But there were enough changes in packaging in F8 that it did not work for me. I think I could have solved it, but it was not worth the effort.
I truly would like to see an upgrade which offered new packages for installation instead of just doing a straight upgrade and not offering the improvements/changes.
There is a new yum plugin that is susposed to help with this. I have not researched it, but I did notice it when looking at yum plugins.
Mikkel
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Jim Cornette wrote:
Thanks for pointing out the additional options. My wife put all of my accessories away and I only recently found the DVD burner. The other computers are here and there so a DVD is the best option since they vary with manufacturer.
I am not sure I follow this. I upgraded a Toshiba laptop and a home-brew desktop using the USB stick and the DVD .iso loop mounted so my web server could serve it out. I think you can serve out the DVD image directly, but this way the server, and not the install machine, processed the DVD image.
Basically making a DVD is good enough for me. Some of the computers are older and may not be usb stick bootable.
I like the USB stick idea and will investigate it later.
The USB stick takes the place of the boot CD. It does not have to be that big. You do not have to put the DVD image on it.
I guess I'm getting less enthusiastic about downloading a DVD so often. I upgraded some Internet available computers from F7 to F8. Since people refer to not being able to upgrade with F8 and need to do a clean installation, I see no hurry to burn a DVD. The target computers are upgrades from several years ago, from memory around 2004 and going strong.
I have done a yum upgrade in the past. But there were enough changes in packaging in F8 that it did not work for me. I think I could have solved it, but it was not worth the effort.
It was not that hard to accomplish. I'm sure that if the installer on a DVD version would upgrade, i would be a much simpler task.
I truly would like to see an upgrade which offered new packages for installation instead of just doing a straight upgrade and not offering the improvements/changes.
There is a new yum plugin that is susposed to help with this. I have not researched it, but I did notice it when looking at yum plugins.
This sounds like an ideal feature for a tool for yum. I'm looking forward to something that can get the new features for upgraded systems. Thanks for the information.
Mikkel
Jim
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
Fedora is not multi-million dollar idiot proof
Brian Chadwick escribió:
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
Fedora is not multi-million dollar idiot proof
But Fedora 8 is the worst release so far (I have used Fedora since FC1 and RHL before).
On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 11:41 -0200, Martin Marques wrote:
Brian Chadwick escribió:
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
Fedora is not multi-million dollar idiot proof
But Fedora 8 is the worst release so far (I have used Fedora since FC1 and RHL before).
---- selective memory...FC2 created a huge uproar because so much was switched with the change to 2.6 kernel. It went out on a fairly high note though.
Craig
Martin Marques wrote:
But Fedora 8 is the worst release so far (I have used Fedora since FC1 and RHL before).
Don't people say that after every Redhat/Fedora release?
In my experience, every release has a couple of problems. In my case, F-8 caused fewer problems than any I remember. Also, it doesn't seem to me very different to F-7.
I find the Live CDs really useful, since one can put them on a USB stick, and see if there are any serious problems before installing.
I thought of trying the re-spin, but I looked at the jigdo stuff, and decided life was too short for that.
The only serious problem I had this time was with WiFi. As far as I can see, I only got it working when I went into /etc/udev/rules.d and edited "70-persistent-net.rules". I hate to think that is really necessary.
A good WiFi tutorial would be a godsend. I mean one that says, "If you get this error, then you should probably try that. If that doesn't work, try the other." All the WiFi documents I've read seem to assume that whatever worked for the author will also work for everyone else in the world, whatever devices they are using.
Timothy Murphy wrote:
Martin Marques wrote:
But Fedora 8 is the worst release so far (I have used Fedora since FC1 and RHL before).
Don't people say that after every Redhat/Fedora release?
No, usually only after the fedora release that follows a RHEL cut since that's where the big design changes tend to be done.
On Jan 18, 2008 6:08 PM, Brian Chadwick brianchad@westnet.com.au wrote:
Fedora is not multi-million dollar idiot proof
-1
Rude and Petty
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
You make a habit of running as root, dont you?
-Max
max wrote:
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
You make a habit of running as root, dont you?
-Max
Don't be silly. I almost never run as root. And I NEVER boot up as root EVER>
Karl
On Jan 19, 2008 1:38 AM, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
Have you tried Ubuntu yet? It may be more your speed. No pulse audio either.
Colin Brace wrote:
On Jan 19, 2008 1:38 AM, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
Have you tried Ubuntu yet? It may be more your speed. No pulse audio either.
Yes I tried Ubuntu about a year ago and liked a lot about it but came back to Fedora.
Karl
Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
The fine folks at the fedora project will graciously accept a donation.
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:38:11 -0700 Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
Karl, you don't have to keep on bringing this up.
It proves nothing about anything because there is no direct correlation between making or having lots of money and common sense and general intelligence. A large number of fools have managed to acquire substantial amounts of cash through luck, connections, and the like. On the other hand, a large number of highly intelligent people are quite poor, due to anything from lack of ambition or an interest in things acquiring money, and sometimes due to poor decisions or simple bad luck.
Bringing "I've got millions of dollars" into every possible occasion simply makes you look conceited. A fool with money is still a fool.
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 17:38 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and
then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
I know you don't listen to Karl's opinions but this one reflects mine exactly. After watching comments on f8 for several months I installed it. I waited because I was not sure whether the f8 version does not have basic problems.
So I installed it yesterday as I have been installing RedHat and Fedora versions since RH 4.2. The good news is that it recognized my sound card while previous versions since FC6 did not. The bad news is sound seems not to work right. I guess I will have work on pulseaudio. -- ======================================================================= Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died. -- Erma Bombeck ======================================================================= Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
Aaron Konstam wrote:
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 17:38 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and
then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
I know you don't listen to Karl's opinions but this one reflects mine exactly. After watching comments on f8 for several months I installed it. I waited because I was not sure whether the f8 version does not have basic problems.
So I installed it yesterday as I have been installing RedHat and Fedora versions since RH 4.2. The good news is that it recognized my sound card while previous versions since FC6 did not. The bad news is sound seems not to work right. I guess I will have work on pulseaudio.
--
Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died. -- Erma Bombeck
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
Good. That is normal when you first turn on F8. Are you all updated? It might should work with pulseaudio if that is done. If you want to run pulseaudio I suggest you join their list. I got it all working but two of my main applications didn't work.
Karl
In the FWIW department, I have FC8 running on seven machines: two are servers in our office, and the other five are laptops/desktops that our users are using in the field (we are a construction company - www.tuparks.com).
All are running flawlessly. In fairness, none of the six machines do anything fancy or advanced.
Arch
-----Original Message----- From: fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com [mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Karl Larsen Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:38 PM To: For users of Fedora Core releases Subject: F8 is a problem
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
But I DO worry why I can't get F8 to work. It works a few days and then goes to hell. So I am back here on F7 which seems to work well. At least the audio is good and I can do things I must.
Karl
On Jan 18, 2008 6:38 PM, Karl Larsen k5di@zianet.com wrote:
Yes I know Fedora is a testing ground. Yes I know most of you tigers
think I am stupid and for some good grounds. But I am a muli-million dollar person who worries not about gasoline prices or where the next meal comes from.
Nothing is more admirable than the fortitude with which millionaires tolerate the disadvantages of their wealth. - Rex Stout
Chris