On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:48:45 -0400, William wrote:

Hi;

I have been going through my messages log and saw this. ... kernel: tuner 2-0042: chip found @ 0x84 (cx23885[0]) kernel: tda829x 2-0042: could not clearly identify tuner address, defaulting to 60 kernel: tda18271 2-0060: creating new instance kernel: TDA18271HD/C1 detected @ 2-0060 kernel: tda829x 2-0042: type set to tda8295+18271 ...

Is this normal, or does "could not clearly identify tuner address" indicate a problem?

/kernel-2.6.29/linux-2.6.29.i686/drivers/media/common/tuners/tda8290.c

The implementation in the source code is ambiguous. The warning means that either no tuner was detected or that multiple were detected (at most four from 0x60 to 0x63), but the driver didn't pass its check when trying to choose either one automatically, and then it uses a default address, 0x60. Nevertheless, in a later check the driver thinks the tuner at the chosen address works or else it would report an error "tuner access failed".

Hi Michael

Do you mind if I keep banging away at this with your off-list assistance? I will not be offended if you respond that this issue should remain on-list or that you have given up on my particular problem. _____________________

Since I have no 'Line' the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'

However, ]$ tvtime --mixer="hw:0/PCM" returns an error "mixer: mute not implemented".

I looked on-line and found this in the latest tvtime patch:

http://osdir.com/ml/fedora-extras-commits/2009-06/msg05593.html+ /**

+ * Make sure that if multiple users mute the card, + * we only honour the last one. + */ + if( !mute && mutecount ) mutecount--; + if( mutecount ) return; + + if( mute ) { + mutecount++; + muted = 1; + if (snd_mixer_selem_has_playback_switch(elem)) + snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_switch_all(elem, 0); + else + fprintf(stderr, "mixer: mute not implemented\n"); + } else { + muted = 0; + if (snd_mixer_selem_has_playback_switch(elem)) + snd_mixer_selem_set_playback_switch_all(elem, 1); + else + fprintf(stderr, "mixer: mute not implemented\n"); + }

Is this worth exploring?

Meanwhile, I will continue to chase down the info I get from lshal. It shows me where everything is in the VFS and the devices identified by the HAL site.

Hi Michael;

On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:

...

Since I have no 'Line'

Your onboard audio doeso have 'Line' (analog audio input), but it's not connected with your tv card.

...

the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'

Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players, tvtime doesn't output any samples.

[...]

Ooh ! Back to using 'Line'.

Why do you insist on avoiding mplayer like the plague? It's available for Fedora at rpmfusion.org, and /dev/video1 ought to be of primary interest. [Unless you want to look at mythtv instead.

I have already downloaded mplayer. Becasue of the experience I had the last time I tried it, I wanted to get a few uninterrupted hours alone with it. The last few days have been taken up with other things. So will be today. I will try to get mplayer going first thing in the morning.

On Tue, 2009-07-28 at 17:57 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:26:58 -0400, William wrote:

...

Hi Michael

It's better to keep it on the public list, so other users can read it and possibly add comments.

...

Since I have no 'Line'

Your onboard audio doeso have 'Line' (analog audio input), but it's not connected with your tv card.

Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).

When using mplayer without pulseaudio, just with ALSA, mplayer does not recognize the 'Line-in' control on gMixer or alsamixer for either CD or TV. Volume and mute only work with 'Master', 'PCM' and 'Front' in mplayer. I can mute or completely remove 'Line-in' from gMixer without any effect on sound output.

The commands I have used to get sound are: ]$ mplayer cdda://1 and/or, ]$ mplayer /dev/video1

I do not believe CD playing or TV are separate issues but are intertwined. Until the basic ALSA bug that is affecting my CD/DVD is fixed, I'll never get to the bottom of the tvtime question.

...

the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'

Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players, tvtime doesn't output any samples.

Yes I realize that PCM controls the "sample output volume", yet every source of sound I try, PCM seems to play one of the controlling roles.

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:

Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).

It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even try to do what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.

To see how you continue to mention "no sound" with regard to tvtime get's boring. Honestly. tvtime alone _cannot_ give you sound with your choice of hardware. Your only tv audio source is the mpeg stream.

tvtime + mplayer combined is a hack, a poor solution that seems to work for a few people. Nobody claims it would be the only solution.

Perhaps one can kick tvtime and use more of mplayer's tv:// options to choose channels, provided that one looks into creating a channel list for mplayer.

When using mplayer without pulseaudio, just with ALSA, mplayer does not recognize the 'Line-in' control on gMixer or alsamixer for either CD or TV. Volume and mute only work with 'Master', 'PCM' and 'Front' in mplayer. I can mute or completely remove 'Line-in' from gMixer without any effect on sound output.

Could be because a player typically is interested in output channels only. Unless it's some versatile piece of software that can record, too, or mix multiple audio sources.

The commands I have used to get sound are: ]$ mplayer cdda://1 and/or, ]$ mplayer /dev/video1

mplayer reads CDs digitally (the same technique like "ripping" them) whereas several other music players only let the CD drive itself play tracks on the CD. For the latter you also need a cable between CD drive and audio hardware. The former involves sending samples to your audio output DAC.

...

...

the next obvious control choice I have in alsa is 'PCM'

Why? This is the "sample output volume". Unlike music players, tvtime doesn't output any samples.

Yes I realize that PCM controls the "sample output volume", yet every source of sound I try, PCM seems to play one of the controlling roles.

You don't use your analogue input devices, and hence your activity concentrates on digital playback of samples.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 04:47:29 -0400, William wrote:

Hi Michael;

On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

...

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:

...

Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).

It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even try to do what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.

I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.

For what? If *you* run tvtime with *your* hardware configuration, there is no audio available to be "mixed". You may continue to point tvtime at any of the available ALSA mixer devices, but it won't turn on any audio.

[The only scenario that would be possible is to abuse tvtime as a volume control of e.g. the "Master" or "PCM" channels while using a music player to play back audio tracks.]

However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get no sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would misunderstand what I am saying.

And still at least one other list subscriber has mentioned the cable between tv card and audio board. ;) The obvious fix that doesn't apply in your case. It doesn't become clear what you try to find out.

The condition "tvtime gives sound" does not exist with your h/w config. That you get "no sound" with tvtime is _expected_. It's irrelevant to continue with pointing out that tvtime "fails" or gives you "no sound". tvtime works as expected. Your tv card driver provides the video signal on /dev/video0, which is what tvtime displays correctly (with good quality even, as you've pointed out). The mpeg encoded A/V stream on /dev/video1 is nothing tvtime understands.

What words would you suggest I choose to express that meaning?

To focus on the relevant details.

Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point of this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that are related to ALSA.

Maybe, but the message doesn't become clear at all anymore. What exactly are you trouble-shooting? Music playback in application 1 or television in application 2? How about choosing a meaningful Subject line for the mails?

My system's sound chips are not terribly unique. The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the under lying chips or drivers.

Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using alsa's analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to get that going.

What kind of "analog sound capability" do you have in mind? "Analog sound" refers to the Input ADC and Output DAC units. Since you don't use your input (Line-in, or Microphone e.g.) where do you expect analog audio input to come from?

William Case wrote:

Hi Michael;

On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 07:54 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:

...

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:52:00 -0400, William wrote:

...

Mplayer gives me sound from both my DVD/CD drive (which RhythmBox fails to do) and video1 for tv (which tvtime fails to do).

It's not accurate to say "tvtime fails", because it doesn't even try to do what you think it does [apparently]. The implementation in tvtime is from 2005 and can only enable an analogue audio input channel.

I have understood from the first time that you told me that tvtime does not mix sound -- except for the simplest kind of volume control; that ALSA is, or should be supplying the mixing.

However, from a descriptive perspective, when I launch tvtime I get no sound. I don't think anybody on "God's Green Earth" would misunderstand what I am saying. What words would you suggest I choose to express that meaning?

Getting mplayer working as a replacement for tvtime is not the point of this exercise. There is something clearly wrong with some drivers that are related to ALSA. My system's sound chips are not terribly unique. The whole world is going to the PCIe bus. Having a tuner that includes both analogue and digital is not something that should be difficult to overcome. As you point out, analogue is not being used. As you have also pointed out, this is not about tvtime but about enabling one of the under lying chips or drivers.

Enabling some chip to do what? There is no analog sound any more, you can't "enable" it, you would have to write your own driver.

Perhaps you can suggest another program that should be using alsa's analog sound capability (or lack of that capability) and I will try to get that going.

What you need is a program which can handle what the video driver writers choose to make available (because that's useful to them) and has a usable user interface I can give to a non-hacker. Unfortunately after almost two years of looking I have concluded that video is now exclusively hacker land. Application tell the user to do things in SQL, or to enter channel frequencies in MHz, and there seems to be nothing which is user friendly, where you can select analog or digital format (many cable systems have both), and a channel number, and have it work without knowing how to "install the database software of choice and create a user" or "build a table to frequencies in MHz and channel names" and other things of interest only to hackers.

TV on Linux had a brief moment of working very easily, but it seems to have vanished. If I'm trying to get someone to try Linux instead of Win7 I never mention TV capability.