Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Thanks.
On 05/17/2017 10:16 AM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
I'm going to guess that you are using the motherboard's built-in ethernet. If so, before trying anything else, go into your BIOS and make sure that the onboard ethernet is enabled.
On 17 May 2017 at 13:16, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Thanks.
There are a few things you will want to check, are you referring to
Wireless or the Ethernet, most laptops does not have the Wi-Fi onboad (integrated); however, you need to verify that the MAC address in your config files reflect that address.
It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it?
2017-05-17 14:23 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez earlaramirez@gmail.com:
On 17 May 2017 at 13:16, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Thanks.
There are a few things you will want to check, are you referring to
Wireless or the Ethernet, most laptops does not have the Wi-Fi onboad (integrated); however, you need to verify that the MAC address in your config files reflect that address.
-- Kind Regards Earl Ramirez
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Look in this directory /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas < aa.lucelio@gmail.com> wrote:
It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it?
2017-05-17 14:23 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez earlaramirez@gmail.com:
On 17 May 2017 at 13:16, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Thanks.
There are a few things you will want to check, are you referring to
Wireless or the Ethernet, most laptops does not have the Wi-Fi onboad (integrated); however, you need to verify that the MAC address in your config files reflect that address.
-- Kind Regards Earl Ramirez
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
found /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/enp0s7
2017-05-17 14:33 GMT-03:00 Terry Polzin foxec208@gmail.com:
Look in this directory /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/
On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas < aa.lucelio@gmail.com> wrote:
It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it?
2017-05-17 14:23 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez earlaramirez@gmail.com:
On 17 May 2017 at 13:16, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Somebody helps?
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Thanks.
There are a few things you will want to check, are you referring to
Wireless or the Ethernet, most laptops does not have the Wi-Fi onboad (integrated); however, you need to verify that the MAC address in your config files reflect that address.
-- Kind Regards Earl Ramirez
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it?
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
2017-05-17 14:35 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez earlaramirez@gmail.com:
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it?
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 17 May 2017 at 13:40, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
Did you restart the network and NetworkManager services?
On 05/17/2017 10:40 AM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
Please don't top-post on this list.
You must restart networking. Simply editing the file isn't enough.
2017-05-17 14:35 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez <earlaramirez@gmail.com mailto:earlaramirez@gmail.com>:
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" <aa.lucelio@gmail.com <mailto:aa.lucelio@gmail.com>> wrote: It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it? /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - A day for firm decisions!!! Well, then again, maybe not! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I changed the MAC and saved the file. What is the right way to restart? I rebooted and no access.
2017-05-17 14:46 GMT-03:00 Rick Stevens ricks@alldigital.com:
On 05/17/2017 10:40 AM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
Please don't top-post on this list.
You must restart networking. Simply editing the file isn't enough.
2017-05-17 14:35 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez <earlaramirez@gmail.com mailto:earlaramirez@gmail.com>:
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" <aa.lucelio@gmail.com <mailto:aa.lucelio@gmail.com>> wrote: It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it? /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-A day for firm decisions!!! Well, then again, maybe not! -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
2017-05-17 14:50 GMT-03:00 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com:
I changed the MAC and saved the file. What is the right way to restart? I rebooted and no access.
2017-05-17 14:46 GMT-03:00 Rick Stevens ricks@alldigital.com:
On 05/17/2017 10:40 AM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
Please don't top-post on this list.
You must restart networking. Simply editing the file isn't enough.
2017-05-17 14:35 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez <earlaramirez@gmail.com mailto:earlaramirez@gmail.com>:
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" <aa.lucelio@gmail.com <mailto:aa.lucelio@gmail.com>> wrote: It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it? /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-A day for firm decisions!!! Well, then again, maybe not! -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Sorry if I top-post. Trying not to do it.
2017-05-17 14:58 GMT-03:00 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
2017-05-17 14:50 GMT-03:00 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com :
I changed the MAC and saved the file. What is the right way to restart? I rebooted and no access.
2017-05-17 14:46 GMT-03:00 Rick Stevens ricks@alldigital.com:
On 05/17/2017 10:40 AM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
I already changed to the new MAC and was not enought. Did not get connection back.
Please don't top-post on this list.
You must restart networking. Simply editing the file isn't enough.
2017-05-17 14:35 GMT-03:00 Earl A Ramirez <earlaramirez@gmail.com mailto:earlaramirez@gmail.com>:
On 17 May 2017 1:32 pm, "Lucélio Gomes de Freitas" <aa.lucelio@gmail.com <mailto:aa.lucelio@gmail.com>> wrote: It is a wired connection on a desktop. I have the network MAC address of the new mainboard. What files to edit to put it? /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-A day for firm decisions!!! Well, then again, maybe not! -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:58:23 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
Pick one, both can't run. The default service on Fedora is now NetworkManager. Restart it like this (as root): systemctl restart NetworkManager To disable network service: systemctl stop network systemctl mask network
If your system isn't finding the ethernet card on boot, that could also cause the problem. Check in journalctl -b by searching for eth. Are there errors there?
The suggestion to make sure it is turned on in the BIOS is a good one. It should show up in the output of lspci.
Is it possible that this is new ethernet hardware that your old F20 kernel doesn't have a driver for? Do you have an old ethernet card laying around that you could plug into a slot, and get networking back?
Thank you for the answer. I will try and post it back here.
2017-05-17 16:49 GMT-04:00 stan stanl-fedorauser@vfemail.net:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:58:23 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
Pick one, both can't run. The default service on Fedora is now NetworkManager. Restart it like this (as root): systemctl restart NetworkManager To disable network service: systemctl stop network systemctl mask network
If your system isn't finding the ethernet card on boot, that could also cause the problem. Check in journalctl -b by searching for eth. Are there errors there?
The suggestion to make sure it is turned on in the BIOS is a good one. It should show up in the output of lspci.
Is it possible that this is new ethernet hardware that your old F20 kernel doesn't have a driver for? Do you have an old ethernet card laying around that you could plug into a slot, and get networking back? _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 17-05-2017 17:49, stan wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:58:23 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
Pick one, both can't run. The default service on Fedora is now NetworkManager. Restart it like this (as root): systemctl restart NetworkManager To disable network service: systemctl stop network systemctl mask network
Thanks for teaching me.
If your system isn't finding the ethernet card on boot, that could also cause the problem. Check in journalctl -b by searching for eth. Are there errors there?
The ethernet on board is ok. No errors.
The suggestion to make sure it is turned on in the BIOS is a good one. It should show up in the output of lspci.
The ethernet is there in the output.
Is it possible that this is new ethernet hardware that your old F20 kernel doesn't have a driver for? Do you have an old ethernet card laying around that you could plug into a slot, and get networking back?
Bingo. You solved the problem. I got the connection. Ethernet working as before with an old ethernet card.
Obs: Rick Stevens, Sorry for top posting. I was on emergency without TB. Using only Gmail to get help.
Thank you very much.
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Thu, 18 May 2017 21:28:20 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
Bingo. You solved the problem. I got the connection. Ethernet working as before with an old ethernet card.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
On Thu, 2017-05-18 at 21:28 -0300, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
Obs: Rick Stevens, Sorry for top posting. I was on emergency without TB. Using only Gmail to get help.
For future reference, in Gmail (web version) if you select all or part of the text before hitting Reply, only that text will be quoted and the reply will start below it.
poc
On 05/18/2017 05:28 PM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
On 17-05-2017 17:49, stan wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:58:23 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
Pick one, both can't run. The default service on Fedora is now NetworkManager. Restart it like this (as root): systemctl restart NetworkManager To disable network service: systemctl stop network systemctl mask network
Thanks for teaching me.
If your system isn't finding the ethernet card on boot, that could also cause the problem. Check in journalctl -b by searching for eth. Are there errors there?
The ethernet on board is ok. No errors.
The suggestion to make sure it is turned on in the BIOS is a good one. It should show up in the output of lspci.
The ethernet is there in the output.
Is it possible that this is new ethernet hardware that your old F20 kernel doesn't have a driver for? Do you have an old ethernet card laying around that you could plug into a slot, and get networking back?
Bingo. You solved the problem. I got the connection. Ethernet working as before with an old ethernet card.
Wow! I didn't realize you were using F20. I'd suggest you upgrade if possible. F20's been EOL'd for almost three years.
Obs: Rick Stevens, Sorry for top posting. I was on emergency without TB. Using only Gmail to get help.
Not a problem, Lucelio. It's just that this list uses bottom-posting to keep better track of the timelines on the threads and sometimes new posters don't realize that. Just why M$ (and Google and others) decided top posting was a good idea, I have no idea--but there's a lot of M$ crud I disagree with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Allegedly, on or about 19 May 2017, Rick Stevens sent:
Just why M$ (and Google and others) decided top posting was a good idea, I have no idea--but there's a lot of M$ crud I disagree with.
Oooh, can of worms, here. But I suspect it's the easiest way of keeping prior messages so the recipient can refer to them, but first show them the newest typing, so they read that straight-away, rather than scroll through umpteen pages of never-trimmed prior messages.
It doesn't work well for Q&A posts. It's usually better to discard all but the last message, and respond bit-by-bit. If a person really needs to go back to the start of a thread, they can do that, separately.
If your mail client makes quoting and responding next to impossible, I favour discarding the entire prior message. And typing your own abbreviated questions, then answer them. The main point being to make the message easy to follow.
You see the same kind of thing in hospital records kept on paper in a binder. They just stack the latest page on the top, because the top of the binder is easy to unclick and re-attach. Putting new paper into the bottom requires a lot more work. And chances are that they don't need to refer to the ancient stuff, either.
On 5/20/17 2:33 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 05/18/2017 05:28 PM, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas wrote:
On 17-05-2017 17:49, stan wrote:
On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:58:23 -0300 Lucélio Gomes de Freitas aa.lucelio@gmail.com wrote:
How to restart the network and NetworkManager services?
Pick one, both can't run. The default service on Fedora is now NetworkManager. Restart it like this (as root): systemctl restart NetworkManager To disable network service: systemctl stop network systemctl mask network
Thanks for teaching me.
If your system isn't finding the ethernet card on boot, that could also cause the problem. Check in journalctl -b by searching for eth. Are there errors there?
The ethernet on board is ok. No errors.
The suggestion to make sure it is turned on in the BIOS is a good one. It should show up in the output of lspci.
The ethernet is there in the output.
Is it possible that this is new ethernet hardware that your old F20 kernel doesn't have a driver for? Do you have an old ethernet card laying around that you could plug into a slot, and get networking back?
Bingo. You solved the problem. I got the connection. Ethernet working as before with an old ethernet card.
Wow! I didn't realize you were using F20. I'd suggest you upgrade if possible. F20's been EOL'd for almost three years.
Obs: Rick Stevens, Sorry for top posting. I was on emergency without TB. Using only Gmail to get help.
Not a problem, Lucelio. It's just that this list uses bottom-posting to keep better track of the timelines on the threads and sometimes new posters don't realize that. Just why M$ (and Google and others) decided top posting was a good idea, I have no idea--but there's a lot of M$ crud I disagree with.
Just my two cents worth. In every organization I have worked in, and as a side issue, every one of those organizations use Lotus Notes as their mail package, it was an organization standard that if you wanted your email read and acted upon if necessary, you NEVER bottom post. If you did bottom post then that was grounds for your email to be deleted on the grounds that bottom posting was a demonstration of ignorance. As a result of this, and the fact that the organization I work for now operates with the same mail policy, I have configured TB to top-post reply to be compatible with work if I happen to work from home. The other issue with this is top/bottom posting conventions potentially differ from country to country, not that I am advocating for one method over the other, I'm just merely pointing out a potential reason for new users/posters having difficulty with this mailing lists conventions. Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
regards, Steve
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
On 06/23/2017 11:08 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
I just checked the email headers and the reply-to still points to the list! I have discovered that it is a change in TB after all. That is rather annoying. See https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ :
"When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header"
Sorry for blaming the mailing list...
On 06/23/2017 11:20 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 11:08 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
I just checked the email headers and the reply-to still points to the list! I have discovered that it is a change in TB after all. That is rather annoying. See https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ :
"When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header"
Sorry for blaming the mailing list...
Thanks for researching that. Having a "Reply-To" header in the first place is specifically for this sort of use (lists and such). How very incredibly annoying!
<soap> I see absolutely no reason to force people to "train themselves" to do something completely different than they've done before--especially when it's to accommodate a package's apparent violation (or at the least, misuse) of the standard. Sheesh! Time to look for a new mail client. </soap> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - Duct Tape + Magic Marker = Label Maker! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 6/24/17 4:20 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 11:08 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
I just checked the email headers and the reply-to still points to the list! I have discovered that it is a change in TB after all. That is rather annoying. See https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ :
"When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header"
Sorry for blaming the mailing list...
On reflecting when this occurred, it seems that it did first start occurring in the old version of TB mentioned in the release notes, but what I now need to work out is, when there are multiple entries in what TB shows as the To address, how TB selects the right one to reply to when using 'Reply to List', or whether its not using the reply to tag at all, and is using the List_id tag instead. I say this from looking at the source for Rick's reply where I noticed a reply-to tag and a List_id tag both referencing the mailing list address.
regards, Steve
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 07/05/2017 02:41 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 6/24/17 4:20 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 11:08 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
I just checked the email headers and the reply-to still points to the list! I have discovered that it is a change in TB after all. That is rather annoying. See https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ :
"When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header"
Sorry for blaming the mailing list...
On reflecting when this occurred, it seems that it did first start occurring in the old version of TB mentioned in the release notes, but what I now need to work out is, when there are multiple entries in what TB shows as the To address, how TB selects the right one to reply to when using 'Reply to List', or whether its not using the reply to tag at all, and is using the List_id tag instead. I say this from looking at the source for Rick's reply where I noticed a reply-to tag and a List_id tag both referencing the mailing list address.
I wonder if "Reply List" actually picks up the "List-Post" header (if present) and uses that, whereas "Reply" just picks up the "From" header. Regardless, I'd still consider it incorrect behavior. "Reply" should use the "Reply-To" header if present and resort to the "From" header if "Reply-To" isn't present. Whether it's a list posting or not is utterly irrelevant for "Reply".
Only the "Reply List" button should care if it's a list posting or not, and should also use the "Reply-To" header first, falling back to the "List-Post" header and "From" headers (in that order). Why the TB people made such a non-intuitive (and IMHO completely wrong) change is beyond me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - The trouble with troubleshooting is that trouble sometimes - - shoots back. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 7/6/17 8:03 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 07/05/2017 02:41 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 6/24/17 4:20 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 11:08 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 06/23/2017 05:39 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
Having mentioned the TB subject, I also have "problems" with the upstream versions of TB I use when interacting with this mail list. TB has "reply", "reply all" and "reply list", where "reply all" works as expected, whereas if I use "reply" to say respond to your email then that build the reply to send it to you and not the mailing list, so to reply to the mailing list I have to use "reply list", and I have never been able to work out why and whether its a mailing list issue or a TB issue.
It seems to be a recent change to the list that the reply-to is now set to the original sender instead of the list address. But thanks to you mentioning the reply to list option in TB, I just noticed that button and then found the shortcut key is CTRL-SHIFT-L for that. I will train myself to use that in future.
I just checked the email headers and the reply-to still points to the list! I have discovered that it is a change in TB after all. That is rather annoying. See https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ :
"When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header"
Sorry for blaming the mailing list...
On reflecting when this occurred, it seems that it did first start occurring in the old version of TB mentioned in the release notes, but what I now need to work out is, when there are multiple entries in what TB shows as the To address, how TB selects the right one to reply to when using 'Reply to List', or whether its not using the reply to tag at all, and is using the List_id tag instead. I say this from looking at the source for Rick's reply where I noticed a reply-to tag and a List_id tag both referencing the mailing list address.
I wonder if "Reply List" actually picks up the "List-Post" header (if present) and uses that, whereas "Reply" just picks up the "From" header. Regardless, I'd still consider it incorrect behavior. "Reply" should use the "Reply-To" header if present and resort to the "From" header if "Reply-To" isn't present. Whether it's a list posting or not is utterly irrelevant for "Reply".
Only the "Reply List" button should care if it's a list posting or not, and should also use the "Reply-To" header first, falling back to the "List-Post" header and "From" headers (in that order). Why the TB people made such a non-intuitive (and IMHO completely wrong) change is beyond me.
I agree with you Rick, this seems counter-intuitive to the way most mail clients work.
Having said this though, I can't help but wonder if the mailing list server is playing around with things, as looking at this email of yours I can see reply-to, list-id, archived-at, list-archive, list-help, list-post, list-subscribe and list-unsubscribe tags all of which contain fedora addresses.
I'm using TB 56.0 and I still forget sometimes to use "Reply List".
regards,
Steve
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-The trouble with troubleshooting is that trouble sometimes -shoots back. -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On 07/07/17 17:26, Stephen Morris wrote:
I agree with you Rick, this seems counter-intuitive to the way most mail clients work.
Having said this though, I can't help but wonder if the mailing list server is playing around with things, as looking at this email of yours I can see reply-to, list-id, archived-at, list-archive, list-help, list-post, list-subscribe and list-unsubscribe tags all of which contain fedora addresses.
I'm using TB 56.0 and I still forget sometimes to use "Reply List".
Well.... It isn't the mailing list server.
Just see.... https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ and scroll down a bit to read...
CHANGED When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header
So, if you're having difficulty remembering to us "Reply List" file a complaint with the Mozilla folks. Or, put a sticky note on your monitor to help remind you. :-) :-)
On 07/07/2017 03:27 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 07/07/17 17:26, Stephen Morris wrote:
I agree with you Rick, this seems counter-intuitive to the way most mail clients work.
Having said this though, I can't help but wonder if the mailing list server is playing around with things, as looking at this email of yours I can see reply-to, list-id, archived-at, list-archive, list-help, list-post, list-subscribe and list-unsubscribe tags all of which contain fedora addresses.
I'm using TB 56.0 and I still forget sometimes to use "Reply List".
Well.... It isn't the mailing list server.
Just see.... https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ and scroll down a bit to read...
CHANGED When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header
So, if you're having difficulty remembering to us "Reply List" file a complaint with the Mozilla folks. Or, put a sticky note on your monitor to help remind you. :-) :-)
Yup. It isn't the mail server, it's the client's behavior. And I agree that we should all beat on the Thunderbird developers because this is an incredibly bad decision on their part. Sheesh! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - "People tell me I look at the dark side. That's not true. I have - - the heart of a small boy......in a jar right here on my desk." - - -- Stephen King - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
On 7/8/17 3:19 AM, Rick Stevens wrote:
On 07/07/2017 03:27 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
On 07/07/17 17:26, Stephen Morris wrote:
I agree with you Rick, this seems counter-intuitive to the way most mail clients work.
Having said this though, I can't help but wonder if the mailing list server is playing around with things, as looking at this email of yours I can see reply-to, list-id, archived-at, list-archive, list-help, list-post, list-subscribe and list-unsubscribe tags all of which contain fedora addresses.
I'm using TB 56.0 and I still forget sometimes to use "Reply List".
Well.... It isn't the mailing list server.
Just see.... https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/52.0/releasenotes/ and scroll down a bit to read...
CHANGED When replying to a mailing list, reply will be sent to address in From header ignoring Reply-to header
So, if you're having difficulty remembering to us "Reply List" file a complaint with the Mozilla folks. Or, put a sticky note on your monitor to help remind you. :-) :-)
Yup. It isn't the mail server, it's the client's behavior. And I agree that we should all beat on the Thunderbird developers because this is an incredibly bad decision on their part. Sheesh!
Sorry, I wasn't referring to TB's reply functionality as being a list issue, I agree with you that the functionality implemented by TB is stupid, and I'll see if I can post an issue on it on the post site that was discussing all the plugin support issues in Firefox and possibly TB that were originating with versions 52/53.
What I was referring to as possibly being something the mailing list server was supplying was all the tags I listed above except for the reply-to tag, especially the list-subscribe and the list-unsubscribe tags. All those tags were in Rick's email just above what looked like possibly a certificate of some sort.
regards,
Steve
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks@alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 226437340 Yahoo: origrps2 -
-- "People tell me I look at the dark side. That's not true. I have -
- the heart of a small boy......in a jar right here on my desk." -
-- Stephen King -
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Allegedly, on or about 09 July 2017, Stephen Morris sent:
Sorry, I wasn't referring to TB's reply functionality as being a list issue, I agree with you that the functionality implemented by TB is stupid, and I'll see if I can post an issue on it on the post site that was discussing all the plugin support issues in Firefox and possibly TB that were originating with versions 52/53.
I'm wondering if that irritating behaviour can be bug reported as being non-RFC compliant. Thunderbird's behaviour is a serious screw-up.
At least Evolution handles it better: Decides you appear to be replying to a list, then asks you which way to reply. And gives you an option to make that a permanent choice (though I've no idea whether there's a way to unset that, later on).
People have been debating mailing list reply-to munging for years, but this behaviour causes far more problems than it allegedly fixes. For lists with a list reply address, the default reply should reply to that address, and an extra non-standard reply option ought to be for privately reply. For those peculiar lists that don't want public replies to the list, they won't have a reply-to header, and none of this nonsense is required.
For non-list mail, the reply-to should be adhered to, without stupidly offering a reply to the from header. The reply to is an override instruction, you're definitely supposed to only reply to the reply-to header.
e.g. You email a business about something, they respond to you with an email that's addressed so that your next reply goes back to where it needs to go, such as to a particular sales consultant, or to the general anyone in sales address.
I get the impression that this recent alleged improvement is from some dingbat who just doesn't understand email and lists.
What I was referring to as possibly being something the mailing list server was supplying was all the tags I listed above except for the reply-to tag, especially the list-subscribe and the list-unsubscribe tags. All those tags were in Rick's email just above what looked like possibly a certificate of some sort.
The info that Thunderbird, or any other mailer, is using to decide that a message is from a list rather than personal mail, is in the message headers, not what's typed in the message body.
Pretty much the last lot of headers just before the message starts:
X-Mailman-Version: 3.1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org List-Id: Community support for Fedora users <users.lists.fedoraproject.org> Archived-At: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/CTGE2LVKBQN22KBDIIFP2EWPWN3NYO32/ List-Archive: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/ List-Help: mailto:users-request@lists.fedoraproject.org?subject=help List-Post: mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org List-Subscribe: mailto:users-join@lists.fedoraproject.org List-Unsubscribe: mailto:users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
The rest of the headers are just ordinary headers in any email. Pretty much, any of these headers that have *list* somewhere in them could be used by software to automatically identify it as list mail (the precedence header, the various List- headers).
On 07/10/17 11:10, Tim wrote:
Allegedly, on or about 09 July 2017, Stephen Morris sent:
Sorry, I wasn't referring to TB's reply functionality as being a list issue, I agree with you that the functionality implemented by TB is stupid, and I'll see if I can post an issue on it on the post site that was discussing all the plugin support issues in Firefox and possibly TB that were originating with versions 52/53.
I'm wondering if that irritating behaviour can be bug reported as being non-RFC compliant. Thunderbird's behaviour is a serious screw-up.
Well, your assertion has been cause for continual debate over the years.
If one were to consider only RFC-822 they probably have a fairly strong argument. But, as I think you know, there has been quite a bit of exchanges concerning munging of headers by mailing list SW.
Now, there is RFC 2822 which obsoletes RFC 822. It "clarifies" things a bit in section 3.6.2 “Originator fields”. The relevant portion states:
When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es) to which the author of the message suggeststhat replies be sent.
The contention is that the mailing list software is not the "author" and therefore should not be adding this to the headers and if it appears in a message from a mailing list it should be ignored.
There is RFC 2369 which is related to mailing lists and it provides a List-Post header which it is suggested should be the header mail clients honor.
I have not checked the code or done any experiments, but I've seen it claimed that kmail is now using the List-Post header to determine what the default "Reply" means. The claim is the have a "Reply to Author" option to override. The difficulty (at least for me) is that if you right click on any message in kmail and look at the reply options you get all the options including "reply to list" even if the message isn't from a mailing list. So, to check the claim one would have to look at the code or manually edit the mail in the message store and check how that affects behavior of the default reply action.
So, I think it could be argued that if T-Bird is going to ignore the Reply-To header for messages from a mailing list they should have at the same time added support for the default reply of mailing list messages use the List-Post header.
Allegedly, on or about 17 May 2017, Lucélio Gomes de Freitas sent:
Old "Fedora 20-x86_64" installed and working. Due to a problem, I Changed my motherboard and lost network(Internet) connection. How to recover connection before install Fedora-Kde-live-25-1-3?
Chances are that your previous network connected was associated with the hardware on your old motherboard (rather than being generic networking settings that will work with any network adaptor), and since it's not there, it doesn't fire up.
You could just delete your network configuration, and create a new one. Unless your network has special configuration, the chances are that a new one ought to get created that will simply work.
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Earl A Ramirez -
Ed Greshko -
Ed Greshko -
Lucélio Gomes de Freitas -
Mike Wright -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rick Stevens -
Samuel Sieb -
stan -
Stephen Morris -
Terry Polzin -
Tim