We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June. On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
There would be broad announcements about every step.
What do people think?
[1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:07 AM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June.
That's not a month. Let's evaluate the week of 13 July, so that we have a month of usage to work from.
On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
Based on the above, I propose Thursday 16 July. The question becomes: who makes the decision, how, and based on what?
For who and how, I say the editorial board by simple majority vote.
Based on what? Um...stuff, I guess?
On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 08:52 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:07 AM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June.
Agree, switch on Thurs. June 11, 2020
That's not a month. Let's evaluate the week of 13 July, so that we have a month of usage to work from.
On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
Based on the above, I propose Thursday 16 July.
Agree, we need a full month of use to know if this is good for the Magazine
The question becomes: who makes the decision, how, and based on what?
For who and how, I say the editorial board by simple majority vote.
I think the Editorial board would encompass a good cross section of the writers as well so this makes sense.
Based on what? Um...stuff, I guess?
This is a good question, what are the driving reasons, the impetus for the change? We should be able to determine if the move was a relative success or not, and for that we need to clearly define the reasons for the move in the first place. Maybe I've missed where it was stated, but it wouldn't hurt to provide a concise reason or set of reasons.
Stephen Snow
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
Despite my initial support for the move, I think there are some benefits to staying with mailing lists than moving to Discourse. First, mailing lists have traditionally been the de facto medium of communication on projects as a central box (even on your phone) where you get notified of the events and actions you need to take regarding the projects you're a member or fan of. Second, Discourse doesn't completely remove the need for the mailing list, because you might not be perfect at regularly browsing Discourse, which brings the need for mail alerts or summaries. That way, we would still be using the mailing list! With that being said, given some experience with another open source project's Discourse page, I acknowledge that keeping track of magazine workflows could be easier on Discourse. And there is good search capability too. So, maybe taiga and pagure could be abandoned by moving to Discourse. Let me know what you think and if I missed anything. -mehdi Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 17:34, s40w5s@gmail.coms40w5s@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 08:52 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:07 AM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June.
Agree, switch on Thurs. June 11, 2020
That's not a month. Let's evaluate the week of 13 July, so that we have a month of usage to work from.
On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
Based on the above, I propose Thursday 16 July.
Agree, we need a full month of use to know if this is good for the Magazine
The question becomes: who makes the decision, how, and based on what?
For who and how, I say the editorial board by simple majority vote.
I think the Editorial board would encompass a good cross section of the writers as well so this makes sense.
Based on what? Um...stuff, I guess?
This is a good question, what are the driving reasons, the impetus for the change? We should be able to determine if the move was a relative success or not, and for that we need to clearly define the reasons for the move in the first place. Maybe I've missed where it was stated, but it wouldn't hurt to provide a concise reason or set of reasons.
Stephen Snow
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
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Le jeudi 04 juin 2020 à 13:40 +0000, Mehdi Haghgoo a écrit :
Despite my initial support for the move, I think there are some benefits to staying with mailing lists than moving to Discourse. First, mailing lists have traditionally been the de facto medium of communication on projects as a central box (even on your phone) where you get notified of the events and actions you need to take regarding the projects you're a member or fan of. Second, Discourse doesn't completely remove the need for the mailing list, because you might not be perfect at regularly browsing Discourse, which brings the need for mail alerts or summaries. That way, we would still be using the mailing list!
There is a setting to receive discourse posts like a mailling list. I didn't tried it, so maybe it doesn't do what I think it do, but it likely do.
With that being said, given some experience with another open source project's Discourse page, I acknowledge that keeping track of magazine workflows could be easier on Discourse. And there is good search capability too. So, maybe taiga and pagure could be abandoned by moving to Discourse. Let me know what you think and if I missed anything. -mehdi Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 17:34, s40w5s@gmail.coms40w5s@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 08:52 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:07 AM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June.
Agree, switch on Thurs. June 11, 2020
That's not a month. Let's evaluate the week of 13 July, so that we have a month of usage to work from.
On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
Based on the above, I propose Thursday 16 July.
Agree, we need a full month of use to know if this is good for the Magazine
The question becomes: who makes the decision, how, and based on what?
For who and how, I say the editorial board by simple majority vote.
I think the Editorial board would encompass a good cross section of the writers as well so this makes sense.
Based on what? Um...stuff, I guess?
This is a good question, what are the driving reasons, the impetus for the change? We should be able to determine if the move was a relative success or not, and for that we need to clearly define the reasons for the move in the first place. Maybe I've missed where it was stated, but it wouldn't hurt to provide a concise reason or set of reasons.
Stephen Snow
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
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On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:04 AM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
... Maybe I've missed where it was stated, but it wouldn't hurt to provide a concise reason or set of reasons.
I think one of the reasons was to improve the organization of the discussions so that people wouldn't miss where things were stated. :)
On Thu, 2020-06-04 at 09:37 -0500, Gregory Bartholomew wrote:
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:04 AM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
... Maybe I've missed where it was stated, but it wouldn't hurt to provide a concise reason or set of reasons.
I think one of the reasons was to improve the organization of the discussions so that people wouldn't miss where things were stated. :)
Still not specifically a reason to move to another communication medium
Sounds alright to me. Perhaps have a later trial end date (end of July?) if activity is slower than usual even accounting for the swap due to there being a holiday in there? I know you said that stats are kept for 3 months not a year so may be hard to associate this year with last year's activity.
On June 4, 2020 4:07:04 AM CDT, Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
We discussed a potential move to Discourse [1] in a thread titled "What if we moved to Discourse?". My impression is that the strong majority of people are either for it, or willing to try. There was a concern about capacity and cost, but let's leave issues such as this to the Council.
So, what if we try it for a month, and then decide whether to stay or go back?
Proposal: We switch on Thursday 11 June. We'll evaluate how it works during the week of 29 June. On Monday 6 July we either stay or go back, based on the evaluation.
There would be broad announcements about every step.
What do people think?
[1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
--
Adam Šamalík
Senior Software Engineer Red Hat _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
Thinking about the success criteria, I'd propose to just look back at the month, try to answer the following questions, and then the editorial board would do a majority vote based on that.
1/ Have we attracted new contributors in the forum that weren't on the list? 2/ Having the proposals together with the discussion, was it faster to approve proposals? 3/ Was it faster for people to get responses in general? 4/ Do you like the experience better? less? same?
As for the dates, yes, we've decided to move this a week, meaning:
Thursday 18 June — Switch to the forum Week of 20 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Cheers! Adam
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:40 AM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Works for me.
I am +1 on that Adam.
Stephen
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 07:41 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Thinking about the success criteria, I'd propose to just look back at the month, try to answer the following questions, and then the editorial board would do a majority vote based on that.
1/ Have we attracted new contributors in the forum that weren't on the list? 2/ Having the proposals together with the discussion, was it faster to approve proposals? 3/ Was it faster for people to get responses in general? 4/ Do you like the experience better? less? same?
As for the dates, yes, we've decided to move this a week, meaning:
Thursday 18 June — Switch to the forum Week of 20 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Cheers! Adam
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
--
Adam Šamalík
Senior Software Engineer Red Hat _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
Looks like we need to delay this one more week...
The Fedora Docs sync is currently broken, so we can't update our docs which would be of course quite confusing.
So I have a new dates proposal:
Thursday 25 June — Switch to the forum Week of 27 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
Does that work for people?
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:55 PM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
I am +1 on that Adam.
Stephen
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 07:41 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Thinking about the success criteria, I'd propose to just look back at the month, try to answer the following questions, and then the editorial board would do a majority vote based on that.
1/ Have we attracted new contributors in the forum that weren't on the list? 2/ Having the proposals together with the discussion, was it faster to approve proposals? 3/ Was it faster for people to get responses in general? 4/ Do you like the experience better? less? same?
As for the dates, yes, we've decided to move this a week, meaning:
Thursday 18 June — Switch to the forum Week of 20 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Cheers! Adam
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
--
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Senior Software Engineer Red Hat _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
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+1 Stephen
On Thu, 2020-06-18 at 18:08 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Looks like we need to delay this one more week...
The Fedora Docs sync is currently broken, so we can't update our docs which would be of course quite confusing.
So I have a new dates proposal:
Thursday 25 June — Switch to the forum Week of 27 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
Does that work for people?
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:55 PM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
I am +1 on that Adam.
Stephen
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 07:41 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Thinking about the success criteria, I'd propose to just look back at the month, try to answer the following questions, and then the editorial board would do a majority vote based on that.
1/ Have we attracted new contributors in the forum that weren't on the list? 2/ Having the proposals together with the discussion, was it faster to approve proposals? 3/ Was it faster for people to get responses in general? 4/ Do you like the experience better? less? same?
As for the dates, yes, we've decided to move this a week, meaning:
Thursday 18 June — Switch to the forum Week of 20 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Cheers! Adam
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
--
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--
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+1 Greg
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 11:50 AM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
+1 Stephen
On Thu, 2020-06-18 at 18:08 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Looks like we need to delay this one more week...
The Fedora Docs sync is currently broken, so we can't update our docs which would be of course quite confusing.
So I have a new dates proposal:
Thursday 25 June — Switch to the forum Week of 27 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
Does that work for people?
On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:55 PM s40w5s@gmail.com wrote:
I am +1 on that Adam.
Stephen
On Mon, 2020-06-15 at 07:41 +0200, Adam Samalik wrote:
Thinking about the success criteria, I'd propose to just look back at the month, try to answer the following questions, and then the editorial board would do a majority vote based on that.
1/ Have we attracted new contributors in the forum that weren't on the list? 2/ Having the proposals together with the discussion, was it faster to approve proposals? 3/ Was it faster for people to get responses in general? 4/ Do you like the experience better? less? same?
As for the dates, yes, we've decided to move this a week, meaning:
Thursday 18 June — Switch to the forum Week of 20 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
What do people think? And does anyone have some additional (better?) success criteria to add?
Cheers! Adam
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 8:27 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
In today's meeting, we agreed to delay the Discourse trial by a week in order for asamalik to have time to drive the "success criteria" conversation.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@lists.fedoraproject.o...
--
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On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
Thursday 25 June — Switch to the forum Week of 27 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
+1
I've updated the docs in a PR [1], could someone please review it? But do not merge, yet, I'll do that tomorrow morning.
Also, I've proposed a CommBlog article [2] to get this announced on the project-level.
[1] https://pagure.io/fedora-magazine/pull-request/10 [2] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/review-and-publish-fedora-magazine-tr...
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 7:13 PM Ben Cotton bcotton@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Adam Samalik asamalik@redhat.com wrote:
Thursday 25 June — Switch to the forum Week of 27 July — Evaluate, vote, and either stay or go back
+1
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
magazine@lists.fedoraproject.org