Hi is it possible to have FC3 on one hard drive 1 Win Xp.service 2 on 2 hard drive Fedora core 3 test 3 on 3 hard drive and have it where Grub will boot up to them and what order should thay be in ? Thanks Jerry W. Whitmire jerryw4386@msn.com
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On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 17:46 -0800, JERRY WHITMIRE wrote:
Hi is it possible to have FC3 on one hard drive 1 Win Xp.service 2 on 2 hard drive Fedora core 3 test 3 on 3 hard drive
Still hangin' in there with FC3T3 I see.
and have it where Grub will boot up to them
Yes. It is not necessary to have them all on separate disks. Could have them all on one disk on different partitions, or some mix. Win XP generally wants to be on a primary partition, and you might have to have grub fool it into thinking it is on the first disk. For example, if XP is on the second disk...
title WinXP on hde1 map (hd0) (hd1) map (hd1) (hd0) rootnoverify (hd1,0) chainloader +1
May need /boot partitions for both OSs in the first 1024 cylinders on their respective disks, depending on the BIOS.
and what order should thay be in ?
Not sure what you mean here. The order is determined by the order of the boot stanzas in /boot/grub/grub.conf while the default is determined by the "default=X" line, the first stanza being X=0, the second X=1, etc.
Phil
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO? -V On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 17:46 -0800, JERRY WHITMIRE wrote:
Hi is it possible to have FC3 on one hard drive 1 Win Xp.service 2 on 2 hard drive Fedora core 3 test 3 on 3 hard drive and have it where Grub will boot up to them and what order should thay be in ? Thanks Jerry W. Whitmire jerryw4386@msn.com
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On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 20:01 -0800, Vadim wrote:
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO?
Because GRUB is more powerful, has a shell, doesn't have to be reinstalled every time the config is changed?
Good old LILO is still there in the base distribution if you want to use it. Quite a few people still seem to like it, or maybe old habits die hard.
Phil
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO?
Because GRUB is more powerful, has a shell, doesn't have to be reinstalled every time the config is changed?
Good old LILO is still there in the base distribution if you want to use it. Quite a few people still seem to like it, or maybe old habits die hard.
$ /usr/share/comps-extras/whichcd.py lilo lilo-21.4.4-26.i386.rpm is on disc 3
you can find the discussion and some reasons for lilo in the list archives especially october 2003 http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2003-October/thread.html <lilo vs grub> <vote for lilo> <an end to the GRUB/LILO thread> <...> <...>
<...> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2003-November/thread.html
<LILO´s Back> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2003-November/msg00624.html --------
It was removed, now is just deprecated. Since it's back in, it should not be "deprecated" or it should be gone. "Deprecated" is not the place for it.
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2003-October/msg02834.html
Deprecate is where packages go when they are going to be replaced.
Hmmm. OK. I never read to the end of the LILO/GRUB thread; the first hundred or so posts wore me down. --------
Phil Schaffner wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 20:01 -0800, Vadim wrote:
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO?
Because GRUB is more powerful, has a shell, doesn't have to be reinstalled every time the config is changed?
No, but install a new drive and with no errors you may get nothing but a blinking cursor after selecting your entry.
The documentation for grub does not seem explain how drives are ordered or how to list the order in which they are detected. Mapping drives seems like driving in the dark without headlights on a moonless night.
Can you point me and the rest of the people suffering from this problem to some enlightening information on how to configure grub from a rescue disk so that it will work after installing an SATA, SCSI or RAID drive. In bugzilla there are hundreds of bugs marked as "NOTABUG" with a variety of issues similar to this. The "fixes" for this type of problem appear to be quite mysterious, and without reasonable explanation to why someone did what they did to make it work.
I had to reinstall FC3 and reorder the drives in the advanced boot config to make it work. Bandwidth and time required to reinstall and get all the updates again aside, this is not a reasonable way to add SATA drives to a machine.
Lilo may not have a shell, but it does not add ambiguity to which drive is which. I don't see how being able to mess around in your boot loader during boot is of any more help. All I used to do was boot a rescue disk edit lilo.conf, run lilo and reboot, no big deal. Three days of messing around struggling through "info grub" and searching bugzilla, is not intuitive.
If grub was more intuitive, and not encumbered by "magic" device mapping your assessment might be correct. But with no apparent documentation on how to properly modify "device.map", or even if it is the right file to modify, it is almost a futile effort to modify the grub config by hand.
Good old LILO is still there in the base distribution if you want to use it. Quite a few people still seem to like it, or maybe old habits die hard.
Phil
Lilo is a good boot loader, and that is all it is good for, but thats what it was meant to do. Most people don't need access to a shell that lets them muck around before the system boots, most people just want to select an option if they have a multi boot system or different kernels for testing purposes. Too bad lilo can't be installed as the default boot loader.
According to bugzilla there are hundreds of complaints about grub causing problems that are not bugs, but can not be solved intuitively by modifying a single file and running a simple command to update the boot configuration.
My opinion is that either GRUB is poorly designed, too complex for most users, or needs good {not info based} documentation, that explains how to map real devices to the logical devices used in the menu.lst file. Or grub should not internally rearrange logical device maps when new devices are added as it appears to be doing.
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 10:16 -0700, Guy Fraser wrote:
Phil Schaffner wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 20:01 -0800, Vadim wrote:
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO?
Because GRUB is more powerful, has a shell, doesn't have to be reinstalled every time the config is changed?
No, but install a new drive and with no errors you may get nothing but a blinking cursor after selecting your entry.
I remember several instances of "LI" or "LI..." followed by repeated numbers (like 02 02 02 ... IIRC) ad infinitum.
The documentation for grub does not seem explain how drives are ordered or how to list the order in which they are detected. Mapping drives seems like driving in the dark without headlights on a moonless night.
But a least you can get a steering wheel (boot from a grub floppy) and pick up a stick to probe around with ("find" command in grub shell).
Can you point me and the rest of the people suffering from this problem to some enlightening information on how to configure grub from a rescue disk so that it will work after installing an SATA, SCSI or RAID drive. In bugzilla there are hundreds of bugs marked as "NOTABUG" with a variety of issues similar to this. The "fixes" for this type of problem appear to be quite mysterious, and without reasonable explanation to why someone did what they did to make it work.
There have been some extensive threads on getting grub configured, but some better documentation would certainly help. It is difficult to generalize the techniques one can use when grub is not working properly, and to cover all the variations in possible drive mappings between BIOS, CMOS setup options, and kernel device names.
I had to reinstall FC3 and reorder the drives in the advanced boot config to make it work. Bandwidth and time required to reinstall and get all the updates again aside, this is not a reasonable way to add SATA drives to a machine.
Probably could have saved the reinstall by spending the time figuring out the required device.map using the grub shell and then fixing it in rescue mode, but I haven't had to tackle that particular problem yet. Expecting my first SATA machine this week. (Times have been lean of late.)
Lilo may not have a shell, but it does not add ambiguity to which drive is which. I don't see how being able to mess around in your boot loader during boot is of any more help. All I used to do was boot a rescue disk edit lilo.conf, run lilo and reboot, no big deal. Three days of messing around struggling through "info grub" and searching bugzilla, is not intuitive.
So install LILO and away you go (until/unless it gets dropped as the "depreciated" status indicates).
If grub was more intuitive, and not encumbered by "magic" device mapping your assessment might be correct. But with no apparent documentation on how to properly modify "device.map", or even if it is the right file to modify, it is almost a futile effort to modify the grub config by hand.
Again, some better documentation might help. An example of debug technique:
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2004-May/msg02647.html
Good old LILO is still there in the base distribution if you want to use it. Quite a few people still seem to like it, or maybe old habits die hard.
Phil
Forgot the smiley emoticon. :-)
Thought this might start a religious war.
Lilo is a good boot loader, and that is all it is good for, but thats what it was meant to do.
Used LILO [mostly] happily for years and was not an early adopter of GRUB, but both have their good/bad points. I use GRUB now for its good points, and because it is the default.
Most people don't need access to a shell that lets them muck around before the system boots, most people just want to select an option if they have a multi boot system or different kernels for testing purposes.
Or perhaps many people have not taken the time to figure out how useful the GRUB shell can be for debugging problems.
Too bad lilo can't be installed as the default boot loader.
Doubt we're going to go back, but at least LILO should remain an option for those who prefer it. Perhaps a Bugzilla RFE is in order?
According to bugzilla there are hundreds of complaints about grub causing problems that are not bugs, but can not be solved intuitively by modifying a single file and running a simple command to update the boot configuration.
My opinion is that either GRUB is poorly designed, too complex for most users, or needs good {not info based} documentation, that explains how to map real devices to the logical devices used in the menu.lst file. Or grub should not internally rearrange logical device maps when new devices are added as it appears to be doing.
Would certainly be better if grub did a better job of "guessing" the same device ordering at boot time that is seen under Linux kernel. Info-based vs man page is likely to start another long discussion.
Phil
Vadim wrote:
On a similar note. Why did we stop supporting LILO?
Man do I agree with that one.
Grub is very painfull, to configure with SATA and regular IDE mixed together.
With grub add a non IDE or SATA device and grub won't boot...
I finally figured out that I had to rearange the drives in the advanced boot setup during install of FC3, so that the sd drives came before the hd drives, now I can have regular IDE and SATA in the same machine.
Using lilo you just use the actual device name in the config file like "/dev/hda1" or "/dev/sda1", not some stupid pointer like "hd0" to a map entry to a device.
-V On Sat, 2004-11-27 at 17:46 -0800, JERRY WHITMIRE wrote:
Hi is it possible to have FC3 on one hard drive 1 Win Xp.service 2 on 2 hard drive Fedora core 3 test 3 on 3 hard drive and have it where Grub will boot up to them and what order should thay be in ? Thanks Jerry W. Whitmire jerryw4386@msn.com mailto:jerryw4386@msn.com
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