I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
-------------------------------------- Mark Haney Network Administrator InterAct Public Safety Systems mhaney@interactsys.com Fedora Core release 3 (Heidelberg) Kernel: 2.6.9-1.667 GNU/Linux 13:45:07 up 5:48, 1 user, load average: 1.79, 1.93, 2.01
On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 01:47:59PM -0500, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
You might want to talk to Colin Charles if that is an interest
On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 15:05 -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
You might want to talk to Colin Charles if that is an interest
The FC3 book is almost out, and will be GNU FDL'ed, so there will be documentation
Sells boxed sets, along with the book for Fedora Core 3, Made Simple. Not a comprehensive manual, but that is something that we would all love to have in due time
fedora-docs-list@redhat.com is another useful place to hang out
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
Tony
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release)
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 13:50 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
Leave them in, add's spice to my life :)
But just to echo some of his sentiments, I was tracking several bugs that the developers informed me had already been fixed, but could not be rolled out due to the freeze.
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roger Grosswiler wrote:
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Could you also have it slice, dice and make those awesome "Julian fries" like those Ronco gadgets do on TV? :)
Cheers,
Chris
-- ==================================== "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' someone else's dog around." --Cowboy Wisdom
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
i vote for jabber server too
and GFS integration
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Could you also have it slice, dice and make those awesome "Julian fries" like those Ronco gadgets do on TV? :)
nice features ;)
--------------------------------------- Marek Cervenka Centrum Vypocetni Techniky CVT - http://cvt.fpf.slu.cz FPF SLU OPAVA - http://www.fpf.slu.cz LCNA - http://lcna.slu.cz =======================================
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 15:49 +0100, marek cervenka wrote:
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
i vote for jabber server too
A reliably-function jabber server is the first requirement.
test out jabberd 2.0s4 some and see if it is stable before requesting it.
-sv
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 15:49 +0100, marek cervenka wrote:
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
i vote for jabber server too
A reliably-function jabber server is the first requirement.
test out jabberd 2.0s4 some and see if it is stable before requesting
i am currently having jabber 2.0s4 running on my machine, seems to be stable, but i cannot get the transports running.
this is test, but you can have an account if you want to, but there is no guarantee at all for uptime as i am testing, and i have just 1 machine for jabber 1 and jabber2 hostname: gandalf.gwch.net
i am roger@gandalf.gwch.net
it.
-sv
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Christopher A. Williams wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roger Grosswiler wrote:
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
Just want to add my voice to the "Jabber would be nice" issue.
Carl Parrish wrote:
Christopher A. Williams wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roger Grosswiler wrote:
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we built yesterday. I have no idea where to start. Any tips/pointers to FAQs and how-to's would be greatly appreciated. This will be an internal, private messaging system, so we could get away with the basic transports.
Just want to add my voice to the "Jabber would be nice" issue.
Me too.
Does this do any good? Any chance of this happening?
Justin Crabtree Java Programmer Ozarks Technical Community College 799-1573
Just want to add my voice to the "Jabber would be nice" issue.
Me too. Does this do any good? Any chance of this happening?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com [RFE]
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-)
Same here! I'm about to load a Jabber server on a new FC3 system we
Just want to add my voice to the "Jabber would be nice" issue.
Me too.
Does this do any good? Any chance of this happening?
I'd like this too. I think the official route, at least for the moment, is to get jabber server into fedora.us. Once it's in there, it gets considered for mainstream Fedora.
I think Fedora Extras will be the future route.
To suggest to fedora.us, use their own bugzilla, not Red Hat's. A quick search shows they seem to be working on it: http://tinyurl.com/4js52
How about an inclusion of a "Startup" folder, similar to Windows.
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:02 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
an gDesklet version of up2date.
gDesklet for Fedora Core.
Inclusion of nice explicit Calendar Software.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:51:44 +0800, joelbryan joelbryanster@gmail.com wrote:
How about an inclusion of a "Startup" folder, similar to Windows.
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:02 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
What is wrong with Evolution? evolution has good calander Functionality.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 06:55 +0800, joelbryan wrote:
an gDesklet version of up2date.
gDesklet for Fedora Core.
Inclusion of nice explicit Calendar Software.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:51:44 +0800, joelbryan joelbryanster@gmail.com wrote:
How about an inclusion of a "Startup" folder, similar to Windows.
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:02 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
I'd like a distro whereby CDROMs, grip, cdparanoia and sound work correctly out of the box.
I'm going to set up a system so that we can boot new releases from a portable USB drive and test this stuff on multiple machines without wrecking their good working installations.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 11:42 +1100, Aaron Scott wrote:
What is wrong with Evolution? evolution has good calander Functionality.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 06:55 +0800, joelbryan wrote:
an gDesklet version of up2date.
gDesklet for Fedora Core.
Inclusion of nice explicit Calendar Software.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 06:51:44 +0800, joelbryan joelbryanster@gmail.com wrote:
How about an inclusion of a "Startup" folder, similar to Windows.
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:02 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote: > I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a > comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far > the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to > what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, > but time prohibits real development, is there any need for > documentation? >
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
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On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 05:53:21PM -0700, Kim Lux wrote:
I'd like a distro whereby CDROMs, grip, cdparanoia and sound work correctly out of the box.
For 99.9% of people they do. Already
I'm going to set up a system so that we can boot new releases from a portable USB drive and test this stuff on multiple machines without wrecking their good working installations.
I've also found qemu handy for this btw. It's not exactly competing with vmware but its free and it works
Please tell me more about qemu. Is it an SF package and how are you (or others) using it.
I was also thinking of using xen, but then if there is a bug people might say that xen was causing it. Any thoughts ?
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 22:33 -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
I'm going to set up a system so that we can boot new releases from a portable USB drive and test this stuff on multiple machines without wrecking their good working installations.
I've also found qemu handy for this btw. It's not exactly competing with vmware but its free and it works
Partly to show that I do think a lot of your posts are valuable ;-) ...
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 20:44 -0700, Kim Lux wrote:
Please tell me more about qemu. Is it an SF package and how are you (or others) using it.
It's used by Metropipe's Virtual Private Machine (http://www.metropipe.net/ProductsPVPM.shtml). Nice thing about it over Xen is that the kernel doesn't have to be 'ported' to run under it. You can find it at http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/.
I was also thinking of using xen, but then if there is a bug people might say that xen was causing it. Any thoughts ?
Yes, especially since it's a customized kernel. And, unfortunately, I've already tried it ... though it may actually work with FC3, it doesn't seem to want to work when you have the root filesystem on an LVM volume, which, as luck would have it, is how FC3 is installed by default. Bummer. It's worth a shot, though, if you want to try installing FC3 and doing custom partitioning. Get rid of the LVM install and do a regular dos partitioning style install (i.e: the "old" way). I may do that myself. If I do, I'll report back on my success or failure.
Please tell me more about qemu. Is it an SF package and how are you (or others) using it.
I was also thinking of using xen, but then if there is a bug people might say that xen was causing it. Any thoughts ?
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 22:33 -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
I'm going to set up a system so that we can boot new releases from a portable USB drive and test this stuff on multiple machines without wrecking their good working installations.
I've also found qemu handy for this btw. It's not exactly competing with vmware but its free and it works
-- Kim Lux (Mr.) Diesel Research Inc
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i use qemu too, but i have several problems with it, like booting from cd (some distros do boot, some not - fc3 does not..) Roger
Isn't that what gnome-session manage does ( or at least part of what it does.) You can tell it to start certain programs at login. Would seem silly to have two methods of doing the same thing.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 06:51 +0800, joelbryan wrote:
How about an inclusion of a "Startup" folder, similar to Windows.
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:04:02 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 12:37 +0000, Tony Molloy wrote:
On Wednesday 10 November 2004 18:47, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
"Best distro out there" It's been out for 4 days and so far there have been at least 103 package upgrades. This sound to me like it was released too early ;-)
well.... most of it is minor fixes that weren't allowed in due to the freeze, and the developer had done the work anyway so decided to just push out the bugfix...
the alternative is to leave the bug in; which would you prefer ?
(and before you say "then delay the release"... there will ALWAYS be non-critical bugs, if you wait for that you will never get a release) -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
you're right, Arjan.
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
it would also be nice, if FC4 could cook some coffee for me, while installing it ;-)
Roger
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
-- Music = Apple iPod + Rhythmbox & iTunes Browser = Mozilla Firefox & Epiphany Desktop = Gnome, Mac OSX, Longhorn 4074 Distro = Fedora Core Language = PHP, MySQL, Python, HTML Graphics = Gimp 2.0, gThumb, Picasa Editors = FrontPage 2003, vi, gedit Codecs = FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, Apple Lossless RSS = Thunderbird, Hello, Blogspot
Em Qui, 2004-11-11 às 22:41, Aaron Scott escreveu:
Isn't that what gnome-session manage does ( or at least part of what it does.) You can tell it to start certain programs at login. Would seem silly to have two methods of doing the same thing.
That sucks. You cannot just throw an script to a startup folder so a dumb user would not complain that openoffice takes ages to start. No, you have to crawl on xml stuff to do what was so simple since windows 3.x.
Reinventing the wheel is not always nice.
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 21:54 -0200, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Qui, 2004-11-11 às 22:41, Aaron Scott escreveu:
Isn't that what gnome-session manage does ( or at least part of what it does.) You can tell it to start certain programs at login. Would seem silly to have two methods of doing the same thing.
That sucks. You cannot just throw an script to a startup folder so a dumb user would not complain that openoffice takes ages to start. No, you have to crawl on xml stuff to do what was so simple since windows 3.x.
Reinventing the wheel is not always nice.
What on earth are you talking about it?
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs
Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 21:54 -0200, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Qui, 2004-11-11 às 22:41, Aaron Scott escreveu:
Isn't that what gnome-session manage does ( or at least part of what it does.) You can tell it to start certain programs at login. Would seem silly to have two methods of doing the same thing.
That sucks. You cannot just throw an script to a startup folder so a dumb user would not complain that openoffice takes ages to start. No, you have to crawl on xml stuff to do what was so simple since windows 3.x.
Reinventing the wheel is not always nice.
What on earth are you talking about it?
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs
Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
-- Douglas Furlong Systems Administrator Firebox.com T: 0870 420 4475 F: 0870 220 2178 -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
Douglas,
you are right, i do the same way but i think they expect drag-and-drop...and they are right too...this is usability...simplicity...
Roger
Features for Fedora Core 4
- A Bluecurve theme for GDM Face Browser. - BlueCurve Sound themes
<sigh> I though I was going to be stuck as a dumb user here.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:24:05 +0100 (CET), Roger Grosswiler roger@gwch.net wrote:
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 21:54 -0200, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Qui, 2004-11-11 às 22:41, Aaron Scott escreveu:
Isn't that what gnome-session manage does ( or at least part of what it does.) You can tell it to start certain programs at login. Would seem silly to have two methods of doing the same thing.
That sucks. You cannot just throw an script to a startup folder so a dumb user would not complain that openoffice takes ages to start. No, you have to crawl on xml stuff to do what was so simple since windows 3.x.
Reinventing the wheel is not always nice.
What on earth are you talking about it?
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs
Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
-- Douglas Furlong Systems Administrator Firebox.com T: 0870 420 4475 F: 0870 220 2178 -- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
Douglas,
you are right, i do the same way but i think they expect drag-and-drop...and they are right too...this is usability...simplicity...
Roger
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Em Sex, 2004-11-12 às 08:08, joelbryan escreveu:
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
Try doing this for 50 computers, each with own user table (no nis, no nfs for /home). Each of those computers with an average of 4 users.
That's what I was talking about.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 08:19 -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Sex, 2004-11-12 às 08:08, joelbryan escreveu:
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
Try doing this for 50 computers, each with own user table (no nis, no nfs for /home).
Why have you not set up an LDAP, system for user authentication, or some thing similar? You can't blame Fedora/Linux/Gnome if an admin won't put in the work.
Each of those computers with an average of 4 users.
That's what I was talking about.
I am fairly certain it is scriptable, so that you would not have to do it for each user.
A minority view, I guess.
I don't want to see any new packages. I would like to see more effort devoted to making sure the current packages work properly, with minimal documentation.
I've just upgraded to FC-3 on a number of machines.
The serial mouse did not work on one machine. X did not work on my laptop (Sony C1VFK) despite a 6 month old patch in Xorg bugzilla. System Settings=>Network does not set up Profiles properly. My laptop CD drive (Sony CD51) is not supported, though it worked under Redhat-8.0.
If I want a way-out program I'm happy to look for an RPM and if I don't find it to compile the program.
But otherwise I just want a quiet life without surprises.
I admire your energy, Alan. Keep up the good work.
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 18:16 -0500, Alan Cox wrote:
On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 10:45:40PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
My laptop CD drive (Sony CD51) is not supported, though it worked under Redhat-8.0.
During install ? If so see the release notes. Not during install please provide me with more details
On Saturday 13 November 2004 23:16, Alan Cox wrote:
My laptop CD drive (Sony CD51) is not supported, though it worked under Redhat-8.0.
During install ? If so see the release notes. Not during install please provide me with more details
Thanks for your response:
(1) I think the CD reader would work OK at installation. I actually installed from the hard disk, but both the Rescue CD and the CD I made with "mkbootdisk --iso" seem to work fine.
(2) In what follows, I am always running kernel 2.6.9-1.667 which came with FC-3, with the grub stanza ================================ title Fedora Core (2.6.9-1.667) root (hd0,1) kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.9-1.667 ro root=/dev/hda3 ide1=0x180,0x386 initrd /initrd-2.6.9-1.667.img ================================
If the CD reader is attached at boot-time, the system hangs after I log in. Ctrl-Alt-Delete and Ctrl-Alt-F1 do not work; I have to stop the machine (badly) by pressing the power button.
(3) If the CD reader is not attached at boot-time, then I am able to login as usual. The following is an excerpt from /var/log/messages
=============================================== Nov 15 16:48:10 william syslogd 1.4.1: restart. ... Nov 15 16:48:10 william kernel: Linux version 2.6.9-1.667 (bhcompile@tweety.build.redhat.com) (gcc version 3.4.2 20041017 (Red Hat 3.4.2-6.fc3)) #1 Tue Nov 2 14:41:31 EST 2004 ... Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Kernel command line: ro root=/dev/hda3 ide1=0x180,0x386 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: ide_setup: ide1=0x180,0x386 ... Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00alpha2 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: PIIX4: IDE controller at PCI slot 0000:00:07.1 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: PIIX4: chipset revision 1 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: PIIX4: not 100%% native mode: will probe irqs later Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: ide0: BM-DMA at 0x1000-0x1007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: ide2: BM-DMA at 0x1008-0x100f, BIOS settings: hde:pio, hdf:pio Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: hda: HTS726060M9AT00, ATA DISK drive Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Using cfq io scheduler Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: hda: max request size: 1024KiB Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: hda: 117210240 sectors (60011 MB) w/7877KiB Cache, CHS=16383/255/63, UDMA(33) Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 hda4 < hda5 hda6 hda7 hda8 hda9 hda10 hda11 hda12 > ... Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Yenta: CardBus bridge found at 0000:00:0c.0 [104d:80b1] Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Yenta: ISA IRQ mask 0x0cb8, PCI irq 9 Nov 15 16:48:11 william kernel: Socket status: 30000006 ... CD reader attached here Nov 15 16:51:13 william cardmgr[1614]: socket 0: Ninja ATA Nov 15 16:51:13 william kernel: ide-cs: GetNextTuple: No more items Nov 15 16:51:13 william cardmgr[1614]: get dev info on socket 0 failed: No such device ===============================================
4) I notice that ide0 and ide2 are mentioned here. If I replace "ide1=..." with "ide2=..." I get the same outcome, except that now ide0 and ide1 are mentioned.
(5) I note that the cdrom module is not mentioned by lsmod; I assume this is in the kernel.
However, I get exactly the same outcome on a vanilla 2.6.9 system with the modules ====================================== ide_cd 37376 0 cdrom 38044 1 ide_cd ======================================
Are any other modules, eg SCSI, required?
(6) Would it help if I installed 2.6.10-rc2 or 2.6.9-ac8 ?
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 08:19 -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Sex, 2004-11-12 às 08:08, joelbryan escreveu:
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
Try doing this for 50 computers, each with own user table (no nis, no nfs for /home). Each of those computers with an average of 4 users.
Ok, I think you are talking about two different things here:
a) - "Start up" folder for regular users b) - Configuration of startup programs by system administrators in large networks,etc.
Right now, you can do "b" by modifying /usr/share/gnome/default.session and you can do "a" via "Session -> Startup Programs". Certainly it will be nice to have a "friendlier" way of adding apps to the "Startup Program" list[1], but adding a "Start up" folder (like in Windows) is hardly the correct solution for case "b"
On the other hand, if "proper session management"[2] is implemented, I don't think the user (in case "a") will need to manually specify "startup programs".
[1] I think that this will probably depends on menu editing (which Gnome lacks ATM). [2] whatever that is :P (see discussions on proper session management on the various gnome mailing lists for more info)
Regards,
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:47, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 08:19 -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Sex, 2004-11-12 às 08:08, joelbryan escreveu:
Red Hat -> Preferences -> More Preferences -> Sessions -> Startup Programs Then add the list of applications you want, in there, and you can set the start order, I really don't see how that is hard.
Try doing this for 50 computers, each with own user table (no nis, no nfs for /home). Each of those computers with an average of 4 users.
Ok, I think you are talking about two different things here:
a) - "Start up" folder for regular users b) - Configuration of startup programs by system administrators in large networks,etc.
Right now, you can do "b" by modifying /usr/share/gnome/default.session and you can do "a" via "Session -> Startup Programs". Certainly it will be nice to have a "friendlier" way of adding apps to the "Startup Program" list[1], but adding a "Start up" folder (like in Windows) is hardly the correct solution for case "b"
On the other hand, if "proper session management"[2] is implemented, I don't think the user (in case "a") will need to manually specify "startup programs".
[1] I think that this will probably depends on menu editing (which Gnome lacks ATM). [2] whatever that is :P (see discussions on proper session management on the various gnome mailing lists for more info)
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
I would like to see the following: 1 - Better driver support for nvidia 2 - Support for Broadcom BCM4306 wifi 3 - Better power management support. 4 - Mac-OS-X like feedback on application starting (Gnome feature) 5 - Better sound card resource allocation and management. -V On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:55 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
I second his request #1.
Vadim: have you tried ndiswrapper for your wifi ? A bunch of us run HPzd7000 laptops with a Broadcom wifi "card" ndiswrapper works excellent with it.
You can find a HOWTO written by yours truly at www.zd7000forums.com in the Linux forum.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:50 -0800, Vadim wrote:
I would like to see the following: 1 - Better driver support for nvidia 2 - Support for Broadcom BCM4306 wifi 3 - Better power management support. 4 - Mac-OS-X like feedback on application starting (Gnome feature) 5 - Better sound card resource allocation and management. -V On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:55 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 08:06 -0700, Kim Lux wrote:
I second his request #1.
Vadim: have you tried ndiswrapper for your wifi ? A bunch of us run HPzd7000 laptops with a Broadcom wifi "card" ndiswrapper works excellent with it.
What about having a pure Linux driver, eh? Is there a problem with Broadcom wifi not providing information needed to develop drivers?
You can find a HOWTO written by yours truly at www.zd7000forums.com in the Linux forum.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:50 -0800, Vadim wrote:
I would like to see the following: 1 - Better driver support for nvidia 2 - Support for Broadcom BCM4306 wifi 3 - Better power management support. 4 - Mac-OS-X like feedback on application starting (Gnome feature) 5 - Better sound card resource allocation and management. -V On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:55 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
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-- Kim Lux (Mr.) Diesel Research Inc
I totally agree with what you are saying. No argument here. However, in the absence of drivers and driver information, ndiswrapper works pretty well.
This email is being sent from my kitchen through a broadcom card and ndiswrapper to a wireless router located at my neighbors. (We share it.)
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 10:42 -0500, Ernest L. Williams Jr. wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 08:06 -0700, Kim Lux wrote:
I second his request #1.
Vadim: have you tried ndiswrapper for your wifi ? A bunch of us run HPzd7000 laptops with a Broadcom wifi "card" ndiswrapper works excellent with it.
What about having a pure Linux driver, eh? Is there a problem with Broadcom wifi not providing information needed to develop drivers?
You can find a HOWTO written by yours truly at www.zd7000forums.com in the Linux forum.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:50 -0800, Vadim wrote:
I would like to see the following: 1 - Better driver support for nvidia 2 - Support for Broadcom BCM4306 wifi 3 - Better power management support. 4 - Mac-OS-X like feedback on application starting (Gnome feature) 5 - Better sound card resource allocation and management. -V On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:55 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
-- Kim Lux (Mr.) Diesel Research Inc
Thanks, Kim. I've got ndiswrapper working last night. Sure beats having cisco 350 sticking out of my pcmcia slot.
-V On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 08:06 -0700, Kim Lux wrote:
I second his request #1.
Vadim: have you tried ndiswrapper for your wifi ? A bunch of us run HPzd7000 laptops with a Broadcom wifi "card" ndiswrapper works excellent with it.
You can find a HOWTO written by yours truly at www.zd7000forums.com in the Linux forum.
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:50 -0800, Vadim wrote:
I would like to see the following: 1 - Better driver support for nvidia 2 - Support for Broadcom BCM4306 wifi 3 - Better power management support. 4 - Mac-OS-X like feedback on application starting (Gnome feature) 5 - Better sound card resource allocation and management. -V On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 09:55 -0400, Ricardo Veguilla wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 12:54 +0000, ian clancy wrote:
Gnome does not lack menu editing. However it has always been strangely disabled in Redhat/Fedora. Regards, Ian Clancy
Yes, Gnome has menu editing, but its one of those things that are in Gnome because everyone wants to have it, not necessarily because its easy to use or "Just Work" ... or at least thats the impression I got from previous discussions about this in the gnome mailing lists.
Anyway, I should have specified that I was talking about Gnome lacking menu editing in Fedora.
Regards,
Ricardo Veguilla veguilla@hpcf.upr.edu
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 08:19:59AM -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Try doing this for 50 computers, each with own user table (no nis, no nfs for /home). Each of those computers with an average of 4 users.
That's what I was talking about.
You can talk directly to the gconf databases with the gconftool-2 app and some scripts
On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roger Grosswiler wrote:
But what i really would like to see is a jabber-server within this distro, it would make life much easier :-) preferably of course jabber 2 & the most-used transports (aim, icq, irc, msn, yahoo...)...
Package it, following guidelines at fedora.us, make it go into Extras, and when its sufficiently useful and the packaging is kosher, I'm sure Core might see it at some stage ;-)
I have a simple feature request:
I would like to be able to upgrade to FC4 when it comes out and not have to figure out each time how to make my palm pilot synch correctly with Jpilot and gnome-pilot! Is this too much to ask that udev could be installed with the most popular usb devices so that palm pilot plug and play really works out of the box?
-mark
On Mon, 2004-11-22 at 22:51 +0100, marcus-cat wrote:
I would like to be able to upgrade to FC4 when it comes out and not have to figure out each time how to make my palm pilot synch correctly with Jpilot and gnome-pilot! Is this too much to ask that udev could be installed with the most popular usb devices so that palm pilot plug and play really works out of the box?
Bugzilla it, or add it to the Wishlist at: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/index.cgi/Wishlist
I like the idea of this wish-list, especially since the Fedora.redhat.com seems to never have any list of "planned features" or anything like that. (for that matter it still has the FC3 release schedule up!)
I really like the idea of the panel applet to change languages for certain apps in mid-session. For example, I routinely log in in Japanese but use certain apps in English (like Gnucash which croaks in Japanese half the time).
I will also add an entry here for a Java VM, since there are stong rumers that IBM will release a complete VM and classes as open source soon.
-- noah silva
Bugzilla it, or add it to the Wishlist at: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/index.cgi/Wishlist
How about Fedora Core Feedback Applet. And a Bugzilla Applet.
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:25:27 -0500 (EST), Noah Silva [Mailing list] nsilva-list@aoi.atari-source.com wrote:
I like the idea of this wish-list, especially since the Fedora.redhat.com seems to never have any list of "planned features" or anything like that. (for that matter it still has the FC3 release schedule up!)
I really like the idea of the panel applet to change languages for certain apps in mid-session. For example, I routinely log in in Japanese but use certain apps in English (like Gnucash which croaks in Japanese half the time).
I will also add an entry here for a Java VM, since there are stong rumers that IBM will release a complete VM and classes as open source soon.
-- noah silva
Bugzilla it, or add it to the Wishlist at: http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/index.cgi/Wishlist
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 11:25 -0500, Noah Silva [Mailing list] wrote:
I like the idea of this wish-list, especially since the Fedora.redhat.com seems to never have any list of "planned features" or anything like that. (for that matter it still has the FC3 release schedule up!)
Because there's no decision on the FC-4 release schedule yet
I really like the idea of the panel applet to change languages for certain apps in mid-session. For example, I routinely log in in Japanese but use certain apps in English (like Gnucash which croaks in Japanese half the time).
Add it to the Wishlist (or get someone in the EditGroup to do it for you) (cc'ing toshio, so he might do it)
I will also add an entry here for a Java VM, since there are stong rumers that IBM will release a complete VM and classes as open source soon.
Till we see something, we don't have wishful thinking (even though its a wish list)
Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
What I mean by minimal. It's a bare system.
I want to boot that bare system, login and install all the packages I want.
I don't know why it has been impossible for Fedora.
Debian has that functionality,Gentoo too.
Could anyone answer? Is it so hard to identify the needed packages to only boot the system?
Best regards
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 04:34:50PM +0300, Vano Beridze wrote:
Could anyone answer? Is it so hard to identify the needed packages to only boot the system?
Well, it's not terribly easy. There was discussion about it either on this list or on fedora-devel-list a while ago. In summary, there's general interest, but there's other things people are more focused on.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:34:50 +0300, Vano Beridze vano.beridze@silkroad.ge wrote:
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
Sure its possible... feel free to take a look at the comps.xml file that defines package groups. This has repeatedly come up, but noone in the community who expresses interest has actually done the work to submit an atlernative comps.xml for testing that creates a better "minimum". In the past, the issue as died in a long long thread of what different people expect in a minimal install and end up bitching back and forth over specific packages. I have NEVER seen a community member interested in the minimal install idea actually offer an editted comps.xml file for testing. And thats exactly what this is going to take. Someone interested to sit down and go through the comps.xml file groupings and re-arrange things and offer the new comps.xml file for testing, that creates a better minimum but leaves the desktop/workstation/server install types unaffected. Until there is an alterative comps.xml that other people in the community can rebuild isos with and do test installs with, there is no more to discuss.
-jef
Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:34:50 +0300, Vano Beridze vano.beridze@silkroad.ge wrote:
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
Sure its possible... feel free to take a look at the comps.xml file that defines package groups. This has repeatedly come up, but noone in the community who expresses interest has actually done the work to submit an atlernative comps.xml for testing that creates a better "minimum". In the past, the issue as died in a long long thread of what different people expect in a minimal install and end up bitching back and forth over specific packages. I have NEVER seen a community member interested in the minimal install idea actually offer an editted comps.xml file for testing. And thats exactly what this is going to take. Someone interested to sit down and go through the comps.xml file groupings and re-arrange things and offer the new comps.xml file for testing, that creates a better minimum but leaves the desktop/workstation/server install types unaffected. Until there is an alterative comps.xml that other people in the community can rebuild isos with and do test installs with, there is no more to discuss.
Thank you jef. Now I know where to start.
Should I take comps.xml from upcoming core 4 test 1 or get it from somewhere else?
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 18:32 +0300, Vano Beridze wrote:
Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:34:50 +0300, Vano Beridze vano.beridze@silkroad.ge wrote:
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
Sure its possible... feel free to take a look at the comps.xml file that defines package groups. This has repeatedly come up, but noone in the community who expresses interest has actually done the work to submit an atlernative comps.xml for testing that creates a better "minimum". In the past, the issue as died in a long long thread of what different people expect in a minimal install and end up bitching back and forth over specific packages. I have NEVER seen a community member interested in the minimal install idea actually offer an editted comps.xml file for testing. And thats exactly what this is going to take. Someone interested to sit down and go through the comps.xml file groupings and re-arrange things and offer the new comps.xml file for testing, that creates a better minimum but leaves the desktop/workstation/server install types unaffected. Until there is an alterative comps.xml that other people in the community can rebuild isos with and do test installs with, there is no more to discuss.
Thank you jef. Now I know where to start.
Should I take comps.xml from upcoming core 4 test 1 or get it from somewhere else?
Jef was being incredibly unfair, there is actually some one on this list, one of the Rodolfo's (sorry for the spelling?), who has been quite vocal trying to get a minimal install up and running (remember the argument about synaptec and up2date any one? :))
Check the archives, there IS some one working on this, working hard I believe, trying to work out what can be removed.
Please check the archives, and talk with him, I am sure he will be incredibly happy to work on it with you.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Douglas Furlong wrote:
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
Should I take comps.xml from upcoming core 4 test 1 or get it from somewhere else?
Jef was being incredibly unfair, there is actually some one on this list, one of the Rodolfo's (sorry for the spelling?), who has been quite vocal trying to get a minimal install up and running (remember the argument about synaptec and up2date any one? :))
http://www.simpaticus.com/linux/small-netserver-fc3-howto.php
Satish
On Fre, 2004-11-12 at 13:45 -0500, Will Backman wrote:
I'd like to see a good SIP phone.
I absolutely back that request, but I have not found any candidate for this specification. Hopefully gnomemeeting will soon change this situation.
Tom
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 13:45 -0500, Will Backman wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 11:25 -0600, Satish Balay wrote:
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Douglas Furlong wrote:
I know this was discussed many times but I still want to know if it's possible to have a minimal install of fedora.
I'd like to see a good SIP phone.
And a return of bsd-games.
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:35:01 +0000, Douglas Furlong douglas.furlong@firebox.com wrote:
Jef was being incredibly unfair, there is actually some one on this list, one of the Rodolfo's (sorry for the spelling?), who has been quite vocal trying to get a minimal install up and running (remember the argument about synaptec and up2date any one? :))
Several people have been vocal... and in the past 2+ years several people have gotten excited by the idea, and then wandered off never to return with something other people can test. Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen an alternative comps.xml file show up in the devel or test list for community to test. Maybe the discussion has moved to the anaconda list. If you have a reference to something testable please give me the citation. A testable comps.xml that can be used to regenerate installable anaconda based images. We can spend days and days and days discussing what should be and what should not be in minimal install, trying to find the perfect package list...and all that discussion is absolutely pointless, if no one delivers a comps.xml file for other people to test. Waiting for someone inside Red Hat to make it a priority to rework the changes into a comps.xml is going to be a long long wait. Everybody who thinks this is important need to start delivering a comps.xml group file that can be tested. It doesn't have to be perfect, i expect several iterations of feedback about the finer points, but if someone is working on a new minimal grouping it needs to see a significant amount of community testing while its being developed.
Check the archives, there IS some one working on this, working hard I believe, trying to work out what can be removed.
Bah... show ME a comps.xml that I can test by rolling new installer images with. Talking about it only gets so far. And its been discussed several times now on the general lists. If someone in the community is hard at work on this, they need to start producing comps.xml revisions for community testing.
-jef
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On Saturday 13 November 2004 13:04, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Check the archives, there IS some one working on this, working hard I believe, trying to work out what can be removed.
Bah... show ME a comps.xml that I can test by rolling new installer
Here is a repost from Fedora-Minimal by Hakan. I hope Hakan chimes in on this thread because the minimal install set does seem very bloated at the moment and it's useful for many different applications if it can be reduced.
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Greetings.
For what is is worth, I have created a FC2 installation that is about 270 MByte and with (nearly) all dependencies resolved. It is very basic and only includes networking and an ssh demon. So it is still a lot of code for very basic stuff.
But adding Apache and MySql adds only about 43 MByte which easily fits into my 512 MByte Flash for the box I am using it for. And I have yum in the "basic" package so it is easy to add on new software.
The complete RPM-list is as follows: basesystem-8.0-3 bash-2.05b-38 beecrypt-3.1.0-3 bzip2-libs-1.0.2-12.1 chkconfig-1.3.9-1.1 coreutils-5.2.1-7 cracklib-2.7-27.1 cracklib-dicts-2.7-27.1 cyrus-sasl-2.1.18-2.2 cyrus-sasl-md5-2.1.18-2.2 db4-4.2.52-3.1 dev-3.3.13-1 device-mapper-1.00.14-3 dhclient-3.0.1rc14-1 diffutils-2.8.1-11 e2fsprogs-1.35-7.1 elfutils-0.95-2 elfutils-libelf-0.95-2 ethtool-1.8-3.1 fedora-release-2-4 filesystem-2.2.4-1 findutils-4.1.7-25 gawk-3.1.3-7 gdbm-1.8.0-22.1 glib-1.2.10-12.1.1 glib2-2.4.0-1 glibc-2.3.3-27 glibc-common-2.3.3-27 gmp-4.1.2-14 grep-2.5.1-26 grub-0.94-5 gzip-1.3.3-12 hdparm-5.5-1 hwdata-0.120-1 info-4.7-4 initscripts-7.55.1-1 iproute-2.4.7-14 iptables-1.2.9-2.3.1 iputils-20020927-13 isdn4k-utils-3.2-13.p1.1 kernel-2.6.5-1.358 krb5-libs-1.3.4-6 kudzu-1.1.68.2-1 less-382-3 libacl-2.2.7-5 libattr-2.4.1-4 libgcc-3.3.3-7 libpcap-0.8.3-3 libselinux-1.11.4-1 libstdc++-3.3.3-7 libtermcap-2.0.8-38 libuser-0.51.7-7.1.1 libwvstreams-3.70-13.1 libxml2-2.6.8-1 libxml2-python-2.6.8-1 lockdev-1.0.1-2.3.1 logrotate-3.7-4.1 lrzsz-0.12.20-18 lvm2-2.00.15-2 mingetty-1.07-2 minicom-2.00.0-18.1 mkinitrd-3.5.22-1 mktemp-1.5-7 modutils-2.4.26-16 ncurses-5.4-5 net-tools-1.60-25.1 newt-0.51.6-2.1.1 openldap-2.1.29-1 openssh-3.6.1p2-34 openssh-server-3.6.1p2-34 openssl-0.9.7a-35 pam-0.77-40 passwd-0.68-8.1 pcre-4.5-2 perl-5.8.3-18 perl-Filter-1.30-5 policycoreutils-1.11-2 popt-1.9.1-0.3 ppp-2.4.2-3.FC2.1 prelink-0.3.2-1 procps-3.2.0-1.1 psmisc-21.4-2 python-2.3.3-6 readline-4.3-10.1 rootfiles-7.2-7 rpm-4.3.1-0.3 rpm-python-4.3.1-0.3 sed-4.0.8-4 setup-2.5.33-1 shadow-utils-4.0.3-21 slang-1.4.9-3.1 statserial-1.1-34 sysklogd-1.4.1-16 SysVinit-2.85-25 tar-1.13.25-14 tcp_wrappers-7.6-36 termcap-11.0.1-18.1 tzdata-2004e-1.fc2 util-linux-2.12-18 vim-minimal-6.2.457-1 wget-1.9.1-5 which-2.16-2 words-2-22 wvdial-1.53-13 yum-2.0.7-1.1 zlib-1.2.1.1-2.1
I did the installation by modifying the comps.xml file in the installation directory so the "core group" only included what I needed. I didn't have all of the listed RPM,s in the comps.xml file. A lot of the RPM's are dependencies that gets installed anyway.
I also had to remove the comps RPM manually afterwards and I have "brewn" my own kernel (based on the FC kernel source) and only included the kernel modules that I nedded. This saved about 30 MByte.
Cheers, Håkan
- -- http://www.addintelligence.co.uk -- we design custom hardware and software for your products
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:48:04 +0000, Andy Green fedora@warmcat.com wrote:
Bah... I've seen several people list a minimal set of packages.. but i have yet to see a comps.xml file offered for community testing. This discussion has happened ever release cycle of fedora. The list archives have several packages lists that define a minimal installation. But I have not seen ONE comps.xml file offered that people in the community can test. A list of packages is as far as any discussion ever gets, but what is needed is a working comps.xml file that people can test and provide feedback on... if people in the community are truely interested in getting a better minimal install available for the next release. The long list of packages adds zero value to the discussion, the comps.xml this guy created is still not available.
-jef
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 08:04 -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Several people have been vocal... and in the past 2+ years several people have gotten excited by the idea, and then wandered off never to return with something other people can test.
Bullshit.
Every release since Red Hat Linux 9, I have carefully pruned the minimal install down to a significantly smaller size while respecting every bloody dependency and still keeping the system friendly for even a newbie. Admittedly this is a chubbier "minimal" package list than the "just-boot-the-box" crowd may want, but it's still on average 200MB smaller than the distro's version.
Every time, I write a HOWTO on trimming the fat from the install. Every time, about 500 people per month read the thing.
Every time, I try to offer feedback to the developers. I requested the separation of vim-common (10MB!) from vim-minimal (450K), and I requested the removal of rhpl's dependency on synaptics just now for FC3 (which will be patched later).
Maybe I missed something,
No kidding. I see Satish already posted the interim URL to my latest doc for FC3; check it again if you already read it as I just posted a more recent version.
but I haven't seen an alternative comps.xml file show up in the devel or test list for community to test.
I just found that file, for the first time in my life. No one ever suggested it to me, and I can find no documentation for it. In the YEARS that I have worked on this one subject, NOT ONE DAMN PERSON has ever said "hey... go modify the comps.xml file". Check the archives, all I do is publicly posted.
It's 8000 lines long for Chrissakes, and even if I'm sure I can eventually parse it that's NOT the point. You want a comps.xml file? Then bloody freaking make it clear to people who are NOT programmers how to read and write the thing. Don't go mouthing off about no one doing any work.
Frankly, I'm not only pissed at your attitude, I'm also disappointed by it. Not the usual intelligent, productive, and useful commentary I expect from you. Can you at least point me to a doc showing the structure of that thing, so we get some value out of your contribution to this thread?
*grmbl* *grmbl* *hiss*
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 21:01 -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 08:04 -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
Several people have been vocal... and in the past 2+ years several people have gotten excited by the idea, and then wandered off never to return with something other people can test.
Bullshit.
Every release since Red Hat Linux 9, I have carefully pruned the minimal install down to a significantly smaller size while respecting every bloody dependency and still keeping the system friendly for even a newbie. Admittedly this is a chubbier "minimal" package list than the "just-boot-the-box" crowd may want, but it's still on average 200MB smaller than the distro's version.
Every time, I write a HOWTO on trimming the fat from the install. Every time, about 500 people per month read the thing.
Every time, I try to offer feedback to the developers. I requested the separation of vim-common (10MB!) from vim-minimal (450K), and I requested the removal of rhpl's dependency on synaptics just now for FC3 (which will be patched later).
Maybe I missed something,
No kidding. I see Satish already posted the interim URL to my latest doc for FC3; check it again if you already read it as I just posted a more recent version.
but I haven't seen an alternative comps.xml file show up in the devel or test list for community to test.
I just found that file, for the first time in my life. No one ever suggested it to me, and I can find no documentation for it. In the YEARS that I have worked on this one subject, NOT ONE DAMN PERSON has ever said "hey... go modify the comps.xml file". Check the archives, all I do is publicly posted.
It's 8000 lines long for Chrissakes, and even if I'm sure I can eventually parse it that's NOT the point. You want a comps.xml file? Then bloody freaking make it clear to people who are NOT programmers how to read and write the thing. Don't go mouthing off about no one doing any work.
Frankly, I'm not only pissed at your attitude, I'm also disappointed by it. Not the usual intelligent, productive, and useful commentary I expect from you. Can you at least point me to a doc showing the structure of that thing, so we get some value out of your contribution to this thread?
*grmbl* *grmbl* *hiss*
-- Rodolfo J. Paiz rpaiz@simpaticus.com
my vote for best vent of the year. Rodolfo, could you post your minimal install doc link here please?
thanks.
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 21:17 -0600, W. Guy Thomas wrote:
my vote for best vent of the year. Rodolfo, could you post your minimal install doc link here please?
<grin> I actually do feel better, too.
http://www.simpaticus.com/linux/small-netserver-fc3-howto.php
Please note that this is a DRAFT version of a larger document so it may be confusing for newbies (this text included not for W. Guy but for possible reading by said newbies). However, nothing in the doc will be harmful or toxic to your system, and nothing has been done to force anything. Safe as a baby's bottom.
More "weight savings" could have been accomplished with a heavier hand (particularly, about 25MB could easily be recovered by deleting docs in /usr/share/doc, and another 15MB or so recovered by just removing synaptics with --force and then deleting all packages which it in turn required). Those changes will be documented later... for now, there is only safe stuff in there.
Two things also:
1. If someone will kindly help me figure out how to edit the comps.xml file without spending days on it, I'm sure I can work with the Fedora team to knock 150MB-200MB from the FC4 minimal install.
2. And if someone will help me a little with writing my kickstart file, I can provide an automated way to install my package list within a day or two.
Cheers,
Em Ter, 2004-11-16 às 00:29, Rodolfo J. Paiz escreveu:
- If someone will kindly help me figure out how to edit the
comps.xml file without spending days on it, I'm sure I can work with the Fedora team to knock 150MB-200MB from the FC4 minimal install.
How much space we're talking about? I mean, on hd. The less I could get on a gnome system was about 600MB...
On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 09:06 -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Ter, 2004-11-16 às 00:29, Rodolfo J. Paiz escreveu:
- If someone will kindly help me figure out how to edit the
comps.xml file without spending days on it, I'm sure I can work with the Fedora team to knock 150MB-200MB from the FC4 minimal install.
How much space we're talking about? I mean, on hd. The less I could get on a gnome system was about 600MB...
Alexander
Rodolfo is looking to get the smallest base install possible mainly for server environments, he wishes to try and keep as much functionality, but with less "services".
Once he has that, and it is installed one could use yum or up2date to get all other requirements satisfied, like installing mail servers, imap servers, ftp, dhcp, blah blah blah.
This initially is not for "desktop" or "workstation" systems.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:01:50 -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz rpaiz@simpaticus.com wrote:
I just found that file, for the first time in my life.
Really? That's interesting. Are you actively watching and communicating on the anaconda-devel-list? Have you read up on how anaconda does things? http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/ http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/comps.html
It's 8000 lines long for Chrissakes, and even if I'm sure I can eventually parse it that's NOT the point. You want a comps.xml file? Then bloody freaking make it clear to people who are NOT programmers how to read and write the thing. Don't go mouthing off about no one doing any work.
Oh im sure people find your howto useful as a workaround.... but its not a solution to the problem of getting a more sensible native "mimimal" anaconda install option. It's one thing to have a discussion as to how to rip out things post install to create a better minimum... its quite another to have a discussion as to how to include a better minimal option in the anaconda installer. For the anaconda minimum, we are running in circles until someone codifies things in the comps.xml for testing. I want this discussion to go somewhere.... i'm tired of people asking/demanding that the installer provide a better "minimal" option than it does. The only way forward in that discussion at this point is through comps.xml creation and testing that incorporates a better minimal set. I'm pretty sure at this point that the people who care about this, know what that the realisticly acheivable better minimal set basically looks like. And its certainly clear to me that on the list of priorities internal Red Hat manhours this issue is in the subbasement. The only way forward is for someone in the community starts producing a comps.xml files that other people in the community can test and beat the crap out of by rolling test images and doing installs, and that internal redhat developers can quickly diff and merge against the official comps.xml when its ready to evaluate possible incorporation.
Frankly, I'm not only pissed at your attitude, I'm also disappointed by it. Not the usual intelligent, productive, and useful commentary I expect from you.
Really? That's amusing since this isn't the first time i've communicated these opinions, I'm nothing if not a broken record. I'm pretty sure I've been saying the exact same thing in one of the many minimal install threads every release cycle of fedora. But I am only human, I can only repeat myself so many times before even my resolve is crushed. I consider it a sign of my own personal weakness of will that i have never responded to any of your posts until this moment. I will redouble my efforts to make my opinions known in every thread where you post from now on. I must cure you of the delusion that my commentary is usually intelligent, productive or useful.
Can you at least point me to a doc showing the structure of that thing, so we get some value out of your contribution to this thread?
Sorry, I assumed all the interested parties had read the availlable documentation at the fedora website already. http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/comps.html Is that enough? If not anaconda-devel-list might be a good place to ask for more specifics...and to beat someone up about providing better documentation.
-jef
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 18:32 +0300, Vano Beridze wrote:
Thank you jef. Now I know where to start.
Should I take comps.xml from upcoming core 4 test 1 or get it from somewhere else?
Join the fedora-minimal mailing list (if you care to work as a group) and help out. Been working on a package list and kickstart file for FC3, and waiting for FC3 to be released to work with the developers on the package list for FC4.
Been very quiet on the list; speak up when you join.
Cheers,
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 20:49 -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 18:32 +0300, Vano Beridze wrote:
Thank you jef. Now I know where to start.
Should I take comps.xml from upcoming core 4 test 1 or get it from somewhere else?
Join the fedora-minimal mailing list [...]
Oops.
http://mail.simpaticus.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora- minimal_simpaticus.com
Watch the line wrap.
On Wed, 2004-11-10 at 12:47 -0600, Mark Haney wrote:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4?
No, but since people are throwing out ideas...
How about adding yum metadata (createrepo, and perhaps yum-arch - for FC2 updates) to the DVD iso? The image (or for that matter the physical media) could then be mounted as a local yum [os] repo, accessed as a file:/ URL. Would save user's disk space and everybody's network bandwidth.
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139077
Phil
I'd like to see a firewall tool added to FC4. I use FWBuilder. I know that iptables can be set manually, but I use FWBuilder on every machine we have. It is a pain to download and install it on every machine. I think it is a very handy application, for those of us not working with firewalls every day.
The other thing I add to every machine is synaptic, but we have already had that discussion.
Another app that a lot of technical people are looking for is CAD. I've been using qcad and find the latest release (2.0.4+) to be a very good replacement for AutoCAD, although it doesn't do 3D and some of the advanced stuff. If the qcad developers had just a bit more help, they would have a killer app on their hands in technical circles.
Kim Lux wrote:
I'd like to see a firewall tool added to FC4. I use FWBuilder. I know that iptables can be set manually, but I use FWBuilder on every machine we have. It is a pain to download and install it on every machine. I think it is a very handy application, for those of us not working with firewalls every day.
Just checking: since iptables has system-config-securitylevel as its frontend, what is better about FWBuilder in your mind?
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 09:29 -0600, Bryan W. Headley wrote:
Just checking: since iptables has system-config-securitylevel as its frontend, what is better about FWBuilder in your mind?
system-config-securitylevel only lets the user set a few things, like which ports are open. With FWBuilder, you can set up NAT, define times when specific ports are open, do port forwarding, block specific IPs, etc. You'd have to run it to see what I mean.
I used it to set up NAT and port forwarding.
One thing I really like about fwbuilder is that you can set up a fw configuration, save it as a file and employ it on all the machines on the network just by copying it to the other machines.
I agree that system-config-security level works for simple firewall tasks, but if you need to do something that it doesn't do and you don't want to manually do iptables, fwbuilder is a great tool.
Kim Lux wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 09:29 -0600, Bryan W. Headley wrote:
Just checking: since iptables has system-config-securitylevel as its frontend, what is better about FWBuilder in your mind?
system-config-securitylevel only lets the user set a few things, like which ports are open. With FWBuilder, you can set up NAT, define times when specific ports are open, do port forwarding, block specific IPs, etc. You'd have to run it to see what I mean.
I used it to set up NAT and port forwarding.
One thing I really like about fwbuilder is that you can set up a fw configuration, save it as a file and employ it on all the machines on the network just by copying it to the other machines.
Initially complex-looking. Qt. But it looks like it'd be very Enterprise-Friendly. RCS? (I like the premise of that; a real admin puts everything into version control)
I don't know if it supports RCS directly. I don't think so. The development team is small and tightly controlled. The files it generates are XML, so I don't think version control would be a problem or difficult to implement.
I think FWbuilder would be an outstanding sys admin tool. It isn't that iptables are that hard, it is just that if you do it for a large number of machines or you only do it once in a while it is easy to get disorganized. I find that fwbuilder allows me (a relative fw newbie) to keep our firewalls organized.
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 10:12 -0600, Bryan W. Headley wrote:
Kim Lux wrote:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 09:29 -0600, Bryan W. Headley wrote:
Just checking: since iptables has system-config-securitylevel as its frontend, what is better about FWBuilder in your mind?
system-config-securitylevel only lets the user set a few things, like which ports are open. With FWBuilder, you can set up NAT, define times when specific ports are open, do port forwarding, block specific IPs, etc. You'd have to run it to see what I mean.
I used it to set up NAT and port forwarding.
One thing I really like about fwbuilder is that you can set up a fw configuration, save it as a file and employ it on all the machines on the network just by copying it to the other machines.
Initially complex-looking. Qt. But it looks like it'd be very Enterprise-Friendly. RCS? (I like the premise of that; a real admin puts everything into version control)
Personally, i would like to see: - Paralell startup of services to minimize boot times - A faster shutdown-time
- Openoffice shoulnt use 30 secounds to load the dictionaries. (only load the default language?)
Maybee: - Preloading of Openoffice and default web browser, to make the system respond *imediatly* and open those progs.
Of cource, i could probably had comed up with more, but this is *the* most important things.
ons, 10.11.2004 kl. 19.47 skrev Mark Haney:
I know it's probably a bit early, but does anyone have a comprehensive set of features/ideas for FC4? So far FC3 is by far the best distro out there, but surely there's been some thought to what's next. Plus, I'd love to help out with it in any way I can, but time prohibits real development, is there any need for documentation?
Mark Haney Network Administrator InterAct Public Safety Systems mhaney@interactsys.com Fedora Core release 3 (Heidelberg) Kernel: 2.6.9-1.667 GNU/Linux 13:45:07 up 5:48, 1 user, load average: 1.79, 1.93, 2.01
-- fedora-test-list mailing list fedora-test-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 17:18 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
- Openoffice shoulnt use 30 secounds to load the dictionaries. (only
load the default language?)
Maybee:
- Preloading of Openoffice and default web browser, to make the system
respond *imediatly* and open those progs.
OO spell checking used to take forever and now it is almost instantaneous. Kudos to whomever did that.
OO is getting faster all the time, in my opinion. In RH8 it was pretty slow.
BTW: I just love OO. I use it every day.
lør, 13.11.2004 kl. 17.24 skrev Kim Lux:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 17:18 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
- Openoffice shoulnt use 30 secounds to load the dictionaries. (only
load the default language?)
Maybee:
- Preloading of Openoffice and default web browser, to make the system
respond *imediatly* and open those progs.
OO spell checking used to take forever and now it is almost instantaneous. Kudos to whomever did that.
Agreed. Haven't gotten around to install FC3 on my main computer yet... But the spell checker *still* takes ages to load in FC2. And OO itself... It took five FIVE minutes to start on an 128 MB RAM 500 Mhz computer (fc3).
So preloading firefox and OO when you start gnome, would be a big win. It would make the computer *seem* a lot faster/responsive. And that is really what counts for most desktop users.
OO is getting faster all the time, in my opinion. In RH8 it was pretty slow.
BTW: I just love OO. I use it every day.
Me to. Had to use Word 2003 on friday, and it is lightyears behind OO when it comes to styles/object placement :)
Your problem is the 128MB of RAM. If you watch your swap memory in a monitor, you'll find that there is a tremendous amount of swapping going on. Upgrading to 512MB of RAM will make a huge difference. Linux runs pretty well on old/slow hardware *as long as it has enough RAM*.
I'm not an advocate of your preloading request. On your machine I think it would make things worse, because the preloaded apps are just going to consume some of your valuable RAM and swap out the rest.
BTW: Another app that got a lot faster is Evolution. My inbox has 11,000 emails in it and they did something to make it work better with large inboxes.
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 18:17 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
lør, 13.11.2004 kl. 17.24 skrev Kim Lux:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 17:18 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
- Openoffice shoulnt use 30 secounds to load the dictionaries. (only
load the default language?)
Maybee:
- Preloading of Openoffice and default web browser, to make the system
respond *imediatly* and open those progs.
OO spell checking used to take forever and now it is almost instantaneous. Kudos to whomever did that.
Agreed. Haven't gotten around to install FC3 on my main computer yet... But the spell checker *still* takes ages to load in FC2. And OO itself... It took five FIVE minutes to start on an 128 MB RAM 500 Mhz computer (fc3).
So preloading firefox and OO when you start gnome, would be a big win. It would make the computer *seem* a lot faster/responsive. And that is really what counts for most desktop users.
OO is getting faster all the time, in my opinion. In RH8 it was pretty slow.
BTW: I just love OO. I use it every day.
Me to. Had to use Word 2003 on friday, and it is lightyears behind OO when it comes to styles/object placement :)
lør, 13.11.2004 kl. 18.46 skrev Kim Lux:
Your problem is the 128MB of RAM. If you watch your swap memory in a monitor, you'll find that there is a tremendous amount of swapping going on. Upgrading to 512MB of RAM will make a huge difference. Linux runs pretty well on old/slow hardware *as long as it has enough RAM*.
I know this perfectly well. I don't care about that crappy machine - it is a test box, not a production one. It is used... to test things. And as print server.
I'm not an advocate of your preloading request. On your machine I think it would make things worse, because the preloaded apps are just going to consume some of your valuable RAM and swap out the rest.
But on those machines who acctually are par with the recomended system specs, it shouln't be a problem.
BTW: Another app that got a lot faster is Evolution. My inbox has 11,000 emails in it and they did something to make it work better with large inboxes.
I have something like 10 000 mails in my evo inbox, a lot of vfolders etc., and it is quite snappy. This is evo 1, not 2.0. Even message body searches over the whole lot seldom takes more than 10 secs, which is really acceptable. And this is a 650 mhz, with a slooow disk.
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 18:17 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
lør, 13.11.2004 kl. 17.24 skrev Kim Lux:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 17:18 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
- Openoffice shoulnt use 30 secounds to load the dictionaries. (only
load the default language?)
Maybee:
- Preloading of Openoffice and default web browser, to make the system
respond *imediatly* and open those progs.
OO spell checking used to take forever and now it is almost instantaneous. Kudos to whomever did that.
Agreed. Haven't gotten around to install FC3 on my main computer yet... But the spell checker *still* takes ages to load in FC2. And OO itself... It took five FIVE minutes to start on an 128 MB RAM 500 Mhz computer (fc3).
So preloading firefox and OO when you start gnome, would be a big win. It would make the computer *seem* a lot faster/responsive. And that is really what counts for most desktop users.
OO is getting faster all the time, in my opinion. In RH8 it was pretty slow.
BTW: I just love OO. I use it every day.
Me to. Had to use Word 2003 on friday, and it is lightyears behind OO when it comes to styles/object placement :)
-- Kim Lux (Mr.) Diesel Research Inc
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 21:24 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
BTW: Another app that got a lot faster is Evolution. My inbox has 11,000 emails in it and they did something to make it work better with large inboxes.
I have something like 10 000 mails in my evo inbox, a lot of vfolders etc., and it is quite snappy. This is evo 1, not 2.0. Even message body searches over the whole lot seldom takes more than 10 secs, which is really acceptable. And this is a 650 mhz, with a slooow disk.
I am using Evolution 2.0.2 to read mail via IMAP. I only have about 290 messages in my inbox. It is horribly slow, and every few (maybe 15-20) e-mails that I read causes Evo to drag badly. That message takes 10-20 seconds to load. The mail server is on the LAN with me on 100MB/s switched ethernet.
I'm on a Dual 2.8GHz Xeon box with 2GB memory and 15,000 RPM Ultra320 drives so I don't think it's my system. Evolution 2.0.2 is just dog slow.
I opened bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139145 on the issue.
Evo 1.4 did not exhibit this slowness that I can recall.
Thomas
lør, 13.11.2004 kl. 22.14 skrev Thomas Cameron:
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 21:24 +0100, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote:
BTW: Another app that got a lot faster is Evolution. My inbox has 11,000 emails in it and they did something to make it work better with large inboxes.
I have something like 10 000 mails in my evo inbox, a lot of vfolders etc., and it is quite snappy. This is evo 1, not 2.0. Even message body searches over the whole lot seldom takes more than 10 secs, which is really acceptable. And this is a 650 mhz, with a slooow disk.
I am using Evolution 2.0.2 to read mail via IMAP. I only have about 290 messages in my inbox. It is horribly slow, and every few (maybe 15-20) e-mails that I read causes Evo to drag badly. That message takes 10-20 seconds to load. The mail server is on the LAN with me on 100MB/s switched ethernet.
I'm on a Dual 2.8GHz Xeon box with 2GB memory and 15,000 RPM Ultra320 drives so I don't think it's my system. Evolution 2.0.2 is just dog slow.
I opened bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139145 on the issue.
Evo 1.4 did not exhibit this slowness that I can recall.
Strange. But EVO have some issues with IMAP (something like it has to download everything etc - i am really not shure...)
Em Sáb, 2004-11-13 às 19:11, Kyrre Ness Sjobak escreveu:
Strange. But EVO have some issues with IMAP (something like it has to download everything etc - i am really not shure...)
When you have filters, it looks like it downloads all new messages. Even if the filters are only subject-related.
Its quite easy to test this, using imap over a slow connection, like dial-up.
On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 11:24 -0300, Alexandre Strube wrote:
Em Sáb, 2004-11-13 às 19:11, Kyrre Ness Sjobak escreveu:
Strange. But EVO have some issues with IMAP (something like it has to download everything etc - i am really not shure...)
When you have filters, it looks like it downloads all new messages. Even if the filters are only subject-related.
Its quite easy to test this, using imap over a slow connection, like dial-up.
-- []s
Alexandre Ganso 500 FOUR vermelha - Diretor Steel Goose Moto Group
But I have no filters. It does seem as though Evo re-downloads every header ever few minutes.
How about a file system that uses a CDRW (or DVD+/-RW) as a real time file system, ie you can write to it like a floppy disk and you wouldn't need to run burner software.
I've got clients that need to send me stuff from machines that are not networked. Floppy disk drives are troublesome in an industrial environment. Surprizingly, cdrom drives hold up well. It would be really convenient to have a real time cdrw/dvdrw, even if it took 15 minutes to umount/eject the disk.