On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 23:48 +0400, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
If you wish to improve *user* experience, then you should focus entirely on actual Fedora releases rather than on Rawhide. However I see that in testing days you still encourage only users with up-to-date Rawhide installations. That's not an option for wide audience, and, therefore this initiative will be doomed.
Making it easy for a wide audience to participate without requiring a rawhide installation is certainly a goal. We will have live cds available for the test days, just like you know from other Fedora test days. As soon as live cd creation works again on rawhide...
Thanks for raising this point,
Matthias
On 06/29/2009 04:28 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Making it easy for a wide audience to participate without requiring a rawhide installation is certainly a goal. We will have live cds available for the test days, just like you know from other Fedora test days. As soon as live cd creation works again on rawhide...
As is, this is of limited value. I did some test days on F11 using LiveCD's, and reported a bunch of bugs. I was then unable to participate in follow-up testing to give the developers feedback on my specific hardware for quite a while because there were no updated CD's.
I finally caved and converted the system to rawhide, which I'm unlikely to do on my primary work machine again, as there were several problems in F11 which kept me from getting PayingJob done when I needed to.
If I had to do it again, I'd probably attempt to get the machine to boot from a USB-connected hard disk. But each of these "just" steps greatly reduces the available tester base.
So, rolling LiveCD's would be a huge boon for testers who need to test on rawhide.
If the project is truly concerned about getting the most feedback, one strategy would be to collect feedback on the most current release and have people running rawhide verify the report on rawhide. It's extra work, but it's also division of labor. If testers don't have to spend time fighting rawhide, they can spend more time testing. A resource-allocation game, to be sure, with multiple valid first-guesses as to the optimum strategy.
Also, a Bugzilla keyword 'polish' like Mozilla uses would be very useful for tagging.
I think it's great the project is being tackled. "Thank you" to those involved.
-Bill
On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 00:19 -0400, Bill McGonigle wrote:
On 06/29/2009 04:28 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Making it easy for a wide audience to participate without requiring a rawhide installation is certainly a goal. We will have live cds available for the test days, just like you know from other Fedora test days. As soon as live cd creation works again on rawhide...
As is, this is of limited value. I did some test days on F11 using LiveCD's, and reported a bunch of bugs. I was then unable to participate in follow-up testing to give the developers feedback on my specific hardware for quite a while because there were no updated CD's.
Actually, there are: the live CDs for later test days. You can usually use this as impromptu snapshot releases to test issues from earlier test days, unless there's something special about the test day build for your particular problem. I tried to point this out on many test day-related bugs, apologies if yours slipped through the cracks.
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Adam Williamson -
Bill McGonigle -
Matthias Clasen